Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Assembly of Unfamiliar Information
This thread started with a simple technique I discovered while messing around in training mode. Since then, I’ve been dedicated to analyzing every aspect that is Lucario. I’ve got Frame Data, AT’s, attack ranges, KO percents, and all the random tidbits of info you could ever ask for. Have a question about Lucario? Ask, and I’ll answer as best I can. So come on in! I’m sure you’ll learn something new.
EDIT: Thank Timbers for the real frame data!
New Info
Table of Contents
I. The Real Frame Data
II. New Techniques
III. Misc. Videos
IV. Double Team KO Chart
V. Attack Ranges
VI. Info
I. The Real Frame Data *click me!*
II. New Techniques
Rising D-air Out of Shield Glitch:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Od1llcuzhfs
Apparently, if you powershield an attack and immediately jump and D-air, you will do a rising d-air.
D-air Momentum Glitch
So, Lucario's D-air is supposed to stop your momentum.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDJGf0qm6-4
I know this glitch is pretty insignificant, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Extreme Awesome
If you aim your Extreme Speed at the roof of Luigi's Mansion, you will bounce off and land lagless. You can do all sorts of cool things out of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=85vyBS6-bo4
I could care less what you call this. In fact, it probably doesn't even need a name. Just thought it was cool.
Rapid D-air ISJR
I think Lucario will benefit immensely from the new SJR AT, specifically with his d-air. Because of it's momentum-cancelling physics, he is able to create a "Wall of Pain" with his d-air.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zOfW7dFoDOk
It is my belief that if this can be perfected, we will benefit greatly from it.
I put it in slow motion so that you can see exactly how to do it. You're going to want to D-air at about the height of Lucario.
Second Jump Recover
Just a demonstration of Lucario's Second Jump Recover with all his aerials.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8nhIEvCqU
Everything is explained in the video, but if you have any questions, please ask, or go here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119
Infinite Second Jump (B-air)
There is a thread in the Tactical Discussion Forums that says that most characters can Infinite Second Jump (ISJ), so I tried with Lucario.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfrdOWZMjXo
If anyone can do this with his u-air or f-air (I’m 99% sure you can’t do it with n-air or d-air), please tell me exactly how you did it so I can make a video of it.
Credit to 3xSwords and Gazebo
Lagless Second Jump: Lucarios D-air
Originally Posted By Nurotasama:A quick demonstration of a LSJ with Lucario's Dair at 2/3 speed. I see no reason this can't be an ILSJ with some practice considering it halts momentum and can easily reach the height of the previous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7VY-hpG6Cs
If you don't know what a Lagless Second Jump or Second Jump Recovery is, you can cancel out landing lag by using an attack on a specific frame and buffering a jump at the end to perform another second jump without actually landing.
Weird Pivot Slide
I haven't been able to recreate this. Usually, when Lucario does a Pivot to Jab A, he stops in his tracks. If you can recreate this, please tell me, or if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzytxC75bA
If we could learn how to do this, it could be useful.
Sliding DT
*Originally Posted By Pentaoku: If you jump and immediately double team, double team will create a much louder noise and it will create more flashing stuff. Dunno if it effects anything. You can do it by holding down, jumping and double teaming instantly.
I figured out a way this can be useful. I call it Sliding Double Team.
What you do is dash, and immeadiately jump and DT. What will happen is you will gain some distance while DT'ing. Usually, when you dash or are running, you can't DT, but if you do this, you can.
Ledge Tricks
Lucario is one of the few characters that can both wall jump and wall cling. When you combine these abilities with his Aura abilities, you get something...Amazing... These techniques only work on stages like Final Destination and Battle Field...Fortunately those are among the most commonly used stages in competitive play!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdIivBL7zk
Some of these are just mindgames (which aren't necessarily a bad thing) but most are actual techniques that can, and should, be incorporated into your gameplay.
Everything is explained in the video, but if you have any questions, please feel free to ask, and I will answer as best I can. Enjoy!
Controlling Double Team
Just something I discovered while making an other Lucario video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JtTrTZZVA-M
Everything is explained in the video; how to do it, it's applications, etc. But if there is anything you don't understand, or if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Also, something I forgot to add is that recovering with Double Team is possible if you use this technique. When you are approaching the stage, and do a normal Double Team, you will be sent away from the stage, oftentimes plummeting to your death. If you do a reverse Double Team, this will not happen.
I PM'd these three about the backwards DT and this is what they had to say:
Originally Posted By Nodrak:
This is what I think happened:
If you space yourself right, you can get Lucario stuck in a wall from double team (try shadow moses or a custom stage) proving that collisions, momentum ect... on Lucario's double team are glitchy to begin with. Which is not uncommon, look at pit's glide cancel or Snake's dash attack > Usmash slide.
To me, it looks like Lucario tried to auto-sweetspot the edge (tried to grab it) but because he was in an attack animation and taking into account his height, the animation got priority over the ledge. It would explain why he slowed down so fast and since Brawl is based on momentum, the momentum from being pulled towards the edge might explain how he traveled backwards.
Originally Posted By Infi-tan:
Looks like just a glitch. You still come from the the direction you were facing, which still doesn't help us when trying to do it off the edge. The only thing it does is face you the direction you were facing. Might have something to do with the way B-sticking(or Psuedo-Sticking since you don't B-stick) messes with your character facing and momentum, since I did notice that you didn't travel as far as a usual Double Team.
Yar. All in all: Cool, but doesn't seem truly useful. If it is something to do with B-sticking's momentum reversal, we should check that out or get Shin to poke at it for us.
Originally Posted By Betterthanbonds9: this is going to sound strange, but looking at it frame by frame, it appears lucario goes forward a bit, hits the ledge, and bounces back.
now, judging it closer (still frame by frame) lucario DOES NOT hit the ground while in DT frames pre teleportation. This means that lucario would be going at a downwards angle, but i've never seen it done near the ledge so i have no clue if you bounce back. Theoretically, i think he should've gone under the stage, but because you're doing the reverse DT, you appeared on the stage and when you hit the ledge lucario spazzed out going "WTF!" and immediatly hit reverse.
--does that work?
Backwards Double Team
Yay!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qZH8V3wxFkc
Edge-Cancel
Here’s a technique that will cancel all the landing lag of Lucario’s up-B when directed at the edge. It’s called edge-canceling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfieID18bY
Basically what you do is direct your up-B towards the top of the ledge. VERY hard to do consistently. It can be done from as far away as his up-B can reach.
Uses; Quick way to get back to the stage with NO LAG. It’s faster than floating down to the edge and it’s faster than grabbing the edge and getting up. Ultimately, it’s just a way to switch up your game.
Galloping
Here’s a neat little thing to do with Lucario’s dash attack. By itself, it’s called a Quick Dash Attack (QDA). It’s not exactly new, but I haven’t seen it used in this way before. I like to call it Galloping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OmqFryQ3cY
Here’s how you do it;
Flick the joystick in the direction you want to go and immediately flick the c-stick down. What you’ll get it a dash attack without having to move prior to it.
Uses;
I suppose it could be used as an approach, but I definitely see it being a mind game. I like to down-smash right after it.
ExtremeStop
So I was messing around with Lucario a couple days ago and found that you can shorten Lucario's up-B.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=weyjSf5x6iI
As you can see, this cuts the length by about a half. In order to do this, you basically make a half circle with the joystick as soon as you start moving forward. You MUST be grounded for this to work.
I've been pretty reluctant to upload this, seeing how, aside from mindgames, this is pretty useless. I know that this is not some ground-breaking technique. But I decided that there's no harm in sharing with you guys. If you can think of any applications, by all means, please share.
Originally Posted By D. Disciple: [ExtremeStop] works well in Teams to close the gap if the opponent is 2 against 1. Cause just hover over a bit out of range from them, they be like "wtf?" and BAM! They get killed by your teammate.
Seriously though, few things to really use with Extreme Stop.
Probably the most effective mind game, if you ever want to mess around with extreme speed. Is mixing it up with extreme hogging, you can extreme hog the edge for awhile and this will have your opponent usually automatically think of landing on the stage, if you got them thinking of that mind set, you can do an extreme hog and set up for an aura sphere, drop down fair, dair, or bair if you think you can do it, dtilt - aura sphere, or smashes.
Extreme Stopping for tech chasing - Not very great cause of the start up lag. Can be good in doubles to narrow the gap and make them worry about what you're doing. I don't recommend it but it's up to you. Can work wonders on platform stages, and it's fun to do on Luigi's Mansion.
There are better options than using extreme stop, it's more of a flashiness than being tactical.
III. Misc. Videos
Jeepy's [Fake] Combo Video
I made this video for a couple of reasons. One was to make fun of all the people claiming to be the inventors of new “combos”. One was to show you how to incorporate Force Palm into your gameplay. And the last reason was because… It’s just plain awesome…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBAHw_mrqRg
I hope you enjoy it, and maybe...possibly...HOPEFULLY... learn something?
IV. Double Team KO Chart
So I've decided to compile a list of percentages at which Lucario's Double Team (Down B) KOs. The following are done WITH DI and Air Dodge. Remember, this list doesn't have to do with character weight...(Well, kinda) More so, it has to do with a characters ability to stay alive. That is why characters with the same weight die at different percentages. All tests were done in the middle of Final Destination. Thanks Nodrak for the excel sheet!
Original Posts:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160153
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154555
VII. Attack Ranges (shortest to longest)
Ground-based:
1) Up-Smash
2)Grab
3)Up-Tilt
4)D-Smash
5)A
6)D-Tilt
7)F-Tilt
8)Force Palm (side B)
9)F-Smash
10)Aura Sphere
Aerial (Horizontal):
1)U-air
2)D-Air
3)N-air
4)F-air
5)B-air
VII. Info
*We all know that Lucario's uncharged aura sphere (neutral B) travels in a wave. The more you charge it, the more it straightens out. For this reason, Lucario's charged aura sphere travels farther than his uncharged aura sphere.
*Originally Posted by Nodrak: Uncharged aura sphere goes 3/4 the distance a fully charged one will go (roughly).
*If you hit near the end of Lucario's Force Palm (side B), there is a very great chance that the opponent will trip.
*Charging my aura sphere while my opponent is on the ledge is a nice little mind game I like to use. If you face away from the edge and space yourself so that your aura sphere is right over the edge, there is not much they can do to recover. If they jump, they get caught in the aura sphere. If they roll, you can blast them with the aura sphere. Of course, they can jump out and hit you with a f-air or a projectile, but hopefully they wont figure that out until you’ve racked up some damage. This works especially well on stupid players.
*Lucario’s entire body is a hitbox for the first couple frames of his up-smash.
*Lucario’s Aura Sphere can be canceled directly into a grab by pressing Z.
*The last hit of his AAA combo will do 4% damage if hit in quick succession. If you do it slowly, it will do 3%.
*ExtremeSpeed edgehog (doing an up-B and holding down and slightly towards the edge) can be done off a platform.
*F-smash is a tipper. It does the most damage (& knockback) towards the end.
*D-tilt will hit behind Lucario (must be very close).
*Force Palm will stop projectiles.
Originally Posted By Nodrak: What Force Palm will and wont hit. (at 0%)
Will stop:
Mario's fireballs
Luigi's fireballs
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket"
Luigi's sideB "Green Rocket" Missfire!!!
Peach's turnips
Yoshi's eggs
Link's Bomb (will blow it up, so try to hit it with the tip of the blue flames)
Toon Link's fully charged arrow
Toon Link's Boomerang
Samus' uncharged energy ball
Samus' homing rocket
Samus' green rocket (but be careful, the rocket is slightly higher then the blue flames on level ground, it's extremely hard to sweet-spot)
Pit's Arrows
Ice Climbers Ice (it will reflect them, not destroy them and will still belong to the ice climbers)
Ice Climbers frost (although it's continuous, so it's not that useful to parry this with FP)
Dedede's Waddle-De's
Dedede's Waddle-Do's
Olimar's Pikman (The purple will stop and fall, the rest of the colours will die)
Pikachu's jolt
Ivysaur's leaf attack
Jigglypuffs Rollout at low charge
Lucario's fully charged aura sphere until they're 100% above you
Lucario's baby aura sphere at any % and stock advantage
Ness' pk thunder
Ness' pk fire (it'll start burning though)
Lucas' pk thunder
Lucas' pk fire (it'll explode though)
Game and Watch's frying pan food (will freeze them, not destroy them right away)
Snake's missile (will not destroy it, it'll be directed up and snake will still be in control of it)
Wont stop:
Mario's fludd
Bowser's fire
Diddy's peanuts
Yoshi's downB stars (though if you can get the timing that you'd need to normally hit the stars, you can take a step closer and hit/grab yoshi before he hits the ground instead)
Wario's bike
Wario's bike tires (broken bike)
Link's arrows (it may slow them but even a non-charged arrow will have enough momentum to hit you)
Link's boomarang (even if the FP flames and the bow are even [the bow is normally slightly higher then the FP flames])
Zelda's SideB
Shiek's needles
Shiek's tether
Toon Link's bomb (it will slow down a bit but will still have enough momentum to keep going and explode)
Samus' fully charged ball
Samus' bomb
ROB's laser (low or high charge)
ROB's gyro
Kirby's upB cutter
Dedede's Gordo Throw (the spiky thing his sideB throws sometimes)
Dedede's upB stars
Fox's Laser
Falco's laser
Falco's reflector (I got hopeful)
Wolf's Laser
Pikachu's Thunder (not that it matters, it comes from above)
Squirtils watergun
Charizard's fire
Game and Watch's bucket
Charizard's rock smash
Jigglypuff's Rollout fully charged
Sonic's spring[/QUOTE]
Kirby Hats
Will Stop:
MarioKirby's fireball
LuigiKirby's fireball
BowserKirby's fire (all the fire it touches at least, kirby can still hold down B to keep producing fire)
ToonLinkKirby's arrow
SamusKirby's small energy ball
IceClimberKirby's ice (but like regular ice climbers, it'll belong to kirby)
LucarioKirby's baby aura sphere
LucarioKirby's fully charged aura sphere
PikaKirby's jolt
GameandWatchKirby's food (stops them from moving but they take a second to dissapear)
Wont stop:
DiddyKirby's peanut
ShiekKirby's needle
SamusKirby's large energy ball
PitKirby's arrow
ROBKirby's laser
OlimarKirby's pikmin (it wont even slow them down, any colour)
FoxKirby's laser
FalcoKirby's laser
WolfKirby's laser
JigglyKirby's rollout (charged or uncharged)
SquirtleKirby's watergun (only blocks one part of the entire spray)
CharizardKirby's Fire (same as squirtle)
SnakeKirby's gernade
Also i missed, it wont stop regular snake's gernade.
*D-smash will hit someone holding onto the ledge.
*If you jump and land just as Force Palm explodes, it will disappear and do no damage.
*U-smash is a tipper.
*If you can manage to hit with only the second hitbox of f-tilt, it will do more knockback.
*You know the jab->jab-> force palm combo? Of course you do. Well, last night, I was playing against a level 9 Pit, and just out of randomness, I decided to try jab->jab-> double team, and it worked quite well. Pit f-aired me, double team activated, and Pit was punished.
I think that this will work quite well, since usually, while you are jabbing your opponent, they are desperately trying to escape it and retaliate.
This is probably more of a mindgame, now that I think about it. Let's say you pull this off, and double team them. Well, next time you jab them, they PROBABLY won't try to retaliate, thinking you are going to double team. Now you can force palm them much easier.
*Originally Posted By Betterthanbonds9: one thing i've noticed with lucario is that his quick roll can almost make him do a waveland
-what you do: as you are close to the stage (helps a lot if you're fastfalling, but is in no way necesary) you do a midair dodge. You dont need to hold it, it helps save some frames if you dont. As soon as you hit the ground, hit left, right, or down. Down will spotdodge, the others will roll. It does the same thing as when you press shield at the same time as the control stick for that instant-roll. Of course this is merely for mindgames, but the ability to get space (or close the gap) can start a new combo for you right there. The best case I've done is airdodging the fsmash from marth, rolling behind him and opening up the dthrow->double fair->ftilt combo on him. On retreats, a fully charged AS to the face is fun, same with spotdodges
Also, lucario can benefit from the airdodge as a bit of a lag canceller. If you start the airdodge earlier or if you wait a frame or 2 on the ground, you can open it up into a stutterstep fsmash with no lag. Not sure if this is really beneficial or not to a regular landing, but i just noticed this after i failed a couple times to do the waveroll.
*Originally Posted By Nodrak: Also I found this out, it's not a technique, or relevant in anyway to how you play brawl, but Lucario's voice actor also did the english voice of Goku from DBZ.
*Originally Posted By Nodrak: Samuelson posted that dair wont necessarily kill at 300% (which is important in sudden death). The first hit will have just enough knockback to cause some of the lighter characters to get pushed out of the second hit of dair's reach. It depends on how the opponent DI's and where your dair was placed but it's good info.
*Originally Posted By Nodrak:
Three things:
1. Lucario's first Jab is a backhand O.O I never knew that! Not just a backhand, a backhand with a spike on it!
2. BAD ANIMATIONS. Go into 1/4 time in training mode, zoom in on Lucario.
-Do an air dodge, make sure the whole animation is in the air. Watch Lucario's head.. see anything wierd?
-It also somewhat happens when he rolls backwards (i.e. facing left, rolls right, ends still facing left).
-Watch Lucario's left arm during utilt
-All of Lucario during dtilt (not as prominent)
-Lucario's hands during dair (not as prominent)
-Lucario's right hand when releasing the shield
-Lucario's right foot while crouching (going into the crouch and coming out)
-Lucario's hands while doing dtaunt (face right to see it best)
...
-His trip animation has no animation problems, go figure
3. I wanted to see what happens when ExtremeSpeed hits a wall after watching Jeepy's headbanging ExtremeAwesome. Walls such as Shadow Moses or Final Destination ect...
Yes I know, he can ES > wall cling, but I'm trying to go a bit more in depth then that.
-If you ExtremeSpeed into the wall straight on, you wall cling.
-If you com in from a 45 degree angle, up or down, you will also wall cling (a 45 degree angle down is harder to do though since the game see's you holding down, it tends to drop you out of the cling as if you tapped down).
-Any more then 45 degrees and it will not cling, but just fly alongside the wall
-If you ExtremeSpeed beside and parallel to a wall you will not be able to cling until the very end of ExtremeSpeed. Let me explain: On Shadow Moses, if you stand beside a wall and ExtremeSpeed starting straight up, not angled towards the wall, it will go up (obviously). While you are moving up, if you decide to curve ExtremeSpeed into the wall, it will not curve until the very end. You can curve it into the wall if you're a step away from the wall however.
-If you tap the opposite direction while heading straight for the wall in ExtremeSpeed, you will bounce off
i.e. If you're flying -------> and you tap <-- just as you hit the wall, you will bounce off.
-If you tap the opposite direction as you hit the wall at a 45 degree angle, you will fly alongside the wall and not cling.
-A neat trick, but not the most practical due to startup time. Remember that while clinging, you can immediatly do any attack...
If your opponent has his back against the wall, ExtremeSpeed towards the wall while holding down slightly. You will wall cling > immediatly fall and can dtilt, jab, ect the enemy from behind. I don't reccomend cling > nair since the ground will cancel it. Remember that if you hit the opposite direction. If you try to fsmash or ftilt, chances are you will hit the opposite direction while making contact with the wall causing Lucario will bounce and put in the perfect position to get punished.
Edit: WTF Wierdest thing just happened. While messing around in Shadow Moses, beating up a CFalcon after playing with stuff I mentioned above I just wall jumped... from the ground... in the center of the stage. Not a footstool, CFalcon was nowhere near me =S
*Originally Posted By Tallen:
1. Lucario's first punch (backhanded one) is really similar to La (the same move: advancing with the back of the left hand) with the exception that Lucario's jab is directed to the body (no doubt to damage the opponent) while in kung-fu La is used to disrupt the attacker by directing it to his head and making him open his guard for the next attack:
2. Lucario's second jab attack is the EXACT same as Cheung-nan-choi (or the panther's paw): lightning quick and directed to the ribs of the offender for serious damage (or the head, directed at the eyes to impair the opponent's view). in fact a standard advanced combo is exactly using La to make the opponent open his guard in the stomach to follow up with the panther's paw.
3. Lucario's third attack (the kick) could be any martial arts kick in the world, but it still reminds of kung-fu's straight kick, with the similarity that both Luc's and kung-fu's kick is to push the opponent away instead of dealing damage (though Louie does both at the same time). This is ALSO chained to La and panther's paw, though rarely used because there are better attacks to finish. (my personal favorite is chat-gum: a strong pushing motion with the right hand to make the opponent lose his breath in battle, do it properly and he won't be able to breathe properly for one full minute =3)
pure curiosity, I know, but still fun =D
I will update if I find anything else interesting.
Also, if you discover anything of interest, and post it here, I will add it to the thread. And if you have any questions, feel free to ask!
