Holy crap, Jigglypuff is awesome in Brawl.

PredictablyStubborn · Mar 28, 2008

In Brawl today I decided randomly to pick up jigglypuff .

Wow. I have not lost this entire day to anybody with Jigglypuff. Every battle made me feel like I was in complete control of the match.

I feel like since everyone moves so slowly now, they've all become the perfect victims to WoP and excessive edge guarding. Jiggly's godly air control really puts her in the top now.

And even though characters like Diddy could out prioritize me in the air, the new air dodging system with Jiggly is too insane. I think she's one of the only characters who I could air dodge with and counter effectively, simply due to her multiple jumps, air maneuverability, and excellent air attacks.

And I feel like every attack of Jiggly is amazing now. Before, it was just her bair which I would rely on. All other attacks she had made me worry about being outprioritized or countered. But now, she's got a crazy fair, and a great uair.

Anyway.. yeah. This is just a Jiggly is awesome + why thread.
She's not my main pick all the time, but she's now one of the characters I choose when I want to win.
--
Also, random strategy I kinda want to add for no reason.
In Melee, from using Kirby, I've always used the bair, even when attacking opponents in front of me. I play jigglypuff kind of like how I played Melee kirby, using bair while facing my opponent, or advancing with uair even if my opponent is not above me.

I partly do this because of habits, and also partly because I like to save the fair as much as possible for kills. It decays in killing potential fast if you string 4 or 5 of them in a combo, or just consecutively (which is very likely to happen). It's just amazing how far a fair with no decay can send an opponent flying.

cwjalex · Mar 28, 2008

Jigglypuff is much worse in Brawl than in Melee mainly due to the new game mechanics....

-new reduced damage and knockback system hurts Jigglypuff more due to her reliance on fair and bair
-harder to combo
-harder to KO
-harder to edgeguard
-inability to dash, wavedash, l-cancel makes her approach fairly predictable
-rest is much weaker
-puff punch no longer turns you around

On the sunny side I do love her new found ability to short hop double aerial not to mention some of her hats are just plain awesome!

RPK · Mar 28, 2008

But she lost the head band ._. Now my Sig is like totally useless...-cries-

Well I have to say it isnt that much harder to KO in this game then in the last besides the fact that you cant pull off random rests and get a kill. The new knockback system can also be an advantage when using Uairs, or Fairs since it will be easier to juggle them towards the edge.

Jigglymaster · Mar 28, 2008

cwjalex said:
Jigglypuff is much worse in Brawl than in Melee mainly due to the new game mechanics....

-new reduced damage and knockback system hurts Jigglypuff more due to her reliance on fair and bair
-harder to combo
-harder to KO
-harder to edgeguard
-inability to dash, wavedash, l-cancel makes her approach fairly predictable
-rest is much weaker
-puff punch no longer turns you around

On the sunny side I do love her new found ability to short hop double aerial not to mention some of her hats are just plain awesome!

LOL, Harder to combo? You can do a 12 b air combo off the side of the stage easily.

Ghetto Fabulous · Mar 28, 2008

it is physically impossible in the game to do 12 bairs off the side of the stage in a combo. you dont even have enough jumps to do it. please stop posting stuff that doesnt make any sense

eyestrain92 · Mar 28, 2008

Maybe you don't jump in between Bairs? Footstooling? I've seen nasty combos off stage.

NESSBOUNDER · Mar 28, 2008

Well Jigglypuff can still harass people off the stage, that's true, but with the new air dodge mechanic, it's a lot easier for people to get around the attacks as well, especially guys like Pit and Dedede.

HiddenBowser · Mar 28, 2008

Jigglymaster said:
LOL, Harder to combo? You can do a 12 b air combo off the side of the stage easily.

lol, no.

Jiggs kinda sucks in brawl. Like mid tier at best.

PredictablyStubborn · Mar 29, 2008

I think Jiggs has a lot easier time comboing than any other character, except wolf.

And of course, by using the word combo, we really just mean "landing hits in any way consecutively without dealing fatal knockback until the last hit of the 'combo'."

I can usually hit my opponents around 6-8 times in a good "combo".

cwjalex · Mar 29, 2008

to say that you can do a "12" hit bair combo off the stage "easily" is just foolish

Jigglymaster · Mar 29, 2008

Ur a bunch of *******es, you can do b airs twice w/o having to jump. Maybe if you faced me you would know. But you better not lag. Jigglypuff deserves high tier, I was just in a 23 man tournament and i almost came in first it came down to the very last match. Your dumb if you think jigglypuff is mid tier. It may not make sense to you, but thats how good jigglypuff is.

cwjalex · Mar 29, 2008

Jigglymaster said:
you can do b airs twice w/o having to jump.

I'd personally love to see you do an aerial without jumping.

Jigglymaster · Mar 29, 2008

cwjalex said:
I'd personally love to see you do an aerial without jumping.

I personally would love to see you not act like a ******* for once.

U know thers floating in the game amiright? Last time I checked jigglypuff dosn't fall very fast so you can do 2 b airs on the opponent w/o having to jump. Of course you've got to be in mid air if thats what your little brain was questioning.

cwjalex · Mar 29, 2008

well obviously if you are hit in the air you can do any amount of aerials depending on how high you are hit...i thought we were talking about standing on the ground initially.

Jigglymaster, I hope you realize any decent player is just downright laughing at you for thinking jigglypuff deserves high tier don't you? Nobody cares about your 23 man tournament that was held in your middle school cafeteria (that you didn't even win no doubt). The fact that you would even use that scrubby tournament as proof that jigglypuff is awesome shows you probably don't have much to contribute to these boards.

Jigglymaster · Mar 29, 2008

You son of a *****. First off, I'm not even in middle school. I'm a sophmore in High school. Second why would you even assume that it was a scrubby tournament? It was cactaur island held online and a lot of good players played in it, not a bunch of kids at school who never played it b4. And if you didn't know High tier is not top tier. And if your saying I have nothing to contribute here then your really really dumb. I'm like 10X better than you even though I haven't even faced you. I'm one of the best jigglypuff players in every smashbros, so DON'T YOU TELL ME THAT I DON'T CONTRIBUTE, I'M THE ****ING JIGGERNAUGHT.

Do you even have the balls to fight me? My FC is sitting right under my name.

Ghetto Fabulous · Mar 29, 2008

cwjalex said:
well obviously if you are hit in the air you can do any amount of aerials depending on how high you are hit...i thought we were talking about standing on the ground initially.

Jigglymaster, I hope you realize any decent player is just downright laughing at you for thinking jigglypuff deserves high tier don't you? Nobody cares about your 23 man tournament that was held in your middle school cafeteria (that you didn't even win no doubt). The fact that you would even use that scrubby tournament as proof that jigglypuff is awesome shows you probably don't have much to contribute to these boards.

i agree whorheartedly with this entire statement. A 23 man tournament means absolutely nothing, was the tournament posted on the boards? If it was post a link, if it wasnt-then its not even worth considering as good players rarely go to tournaments that are not on the boards. Anyone can hold a scrub tournament, not put it on the boards, and then make conclusions based on the results of the crap tournament. Conclusions that are inherently incorrect, as those who were there were (highly likely) not using proper technique which would prevent bull**** ideas like a 12 bair combo off the stage from happening

Jigglymaster · Mar 29, 2008

Here you go *****es.
http://www.allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=412
Seriously You guys are really getting on my nerves now. IT wasn't a scrubb tournament and you guys wouldn't even have a chance of winnning.

Ghetto Fabulous · Mar 29, 2008

Jigglymaster said:
You son of a *****. First off, I'm not even in middle school. I'm a sophmore in High school. Second why would you even assume that it was a scrubby tournament? It was cactaur island held online and a lot of good players played in it, not a bunch of kids at school who never played it b4. And if you didn't know High tier is not top tier. And if your saying I have nothing to contribute here then your really really dumb. I'm like 10X better than you even though I haven't even faced you. I'm one of the best jigglypuff players in every smashbros, so DON'T YOU TELL ME THAT I DON'T CONTRIBUTE, I'M THE ****ING JIGGERNAUGHT.

Do you even have the balls to fight me? My FC is sitting right under my name.

This very well could be best display of arrogance, stupidity, and stubborness on the boards thus far. You are a sophmore in high school, which means you are probably around 16 years old. This means that there is no way that you have a lot of experience playing smash bros to know enough about the mechanics and mindgames that is inherent in all 3. Both cwjalex and I have been playing competitively for years. My crew, the mages, has held 5 different tournaments, including the Cataclysms and Viva la Smashtaclysm, one of the largest tournaments ever held on the east coast (over 180 people, including m2k, kdj, pcchris, azen). Of course this is back when melee was in its prime, but the fact is we understand the game better than 90% of the people on this site, which DEFINITELY includes ANYONE who thinks they are the best jigglypuff in ALL THREE GAMES. Win an actual tournament at an actual venue that was posted on the boards and then smashers who actually understand this game will put some credibility in your words but until that point just shut up cause no one wants to hear your silly crap anymore. its because of people like you that the boards is degrading into a toxic waste dump of awful players who have to share their unfounded and unwanted opinions

If the tournament is online, while online lag continues to **** wiis, it is a scrubby tournament, end of story.

btw, alex was ranked 10th in New England in melee, just throwing that out there

Jigglymaster · Mar 29, 2008

Just because i'm 16 dosn't mean I'm not good at the game.
Hers the SWF link to the tournament.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147076

I am part of the MZ crew and we would kick your *****. I want your FC NOW. I bet you 100$ you can't. DON'T EVER UNDERSTIMATE ME. And I never said that I'm the best with jigglypuff in all 3 games. I'm just pro with jiggs in every game. I'm sick of your crap and stop talking **** to me cause I would kick your *** in this game so bad but ur a ***** because you don't have your Friend code displayed. Also, you having more experiance than me? Look who join first *******. You dec 2005 me august 2005

I don't have any brawl vids up but I do have a n64 jigglypuff combo video, just to give you an example. Other than Malva whos best with everybody, i'm the best n64 jigglypuff player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsulZCCw48U

Oh my god I'm so scared, hes ranked 10th in a state. To me thats nothing. I've played and beaten better than that.

Ghetto Fabulous · Mar 29, 2008

if my screen didnt freeze, constantly display error messages, or kick me off every time i tried to play online i would. but i cant

how can u not understand that skill level cannot be judged online, the lag changes the game, its a simple fact that intelligent people understand. do you have any youtube videos or anything? cause i would love to see some of the impressive things you have done

TheLake · Mar 29, 2008

Jigglymaster is a ridiculously good N64 smasher.

Lol i thought you sounded familiar...when you posted "jiggernaught" I was like "waaaait a tic..."

Dude your mad good but good pepole dont have to brag about there winnings. Just chill, you dont have to prove yourself to anyone. Im not trying to attack you or anything Im just telling you how it is (:

Ghetto fab- I see where your coming from. But dont downplay anyones skill based on online performances. That tourny that was posted has alot of good pepole there. Even with lag I dont let noobs wail on me because i know even if its bad for me its just as bad for them. Sure lag battles arent the best way to showcase skills but brawl isnt exactly have much to show case anyways (no offense to any pro competitive brawl players out there).

Oh and for jiggz in brawl...offensivly jiggz isnt what she used to be. But out of any character that i can see the metagame for a character evolving its jiggz. Why? Because jiggz is one of the only solid characters that can actually "Air dodge" chase. Its gonna actually be cool watching GOOD jiggz players baiting the aerial evade to avoid a wall of pain just so she can follow up with some wickedly timed rest or what not.

Plus her sun hat is the buizneez...best costume in smash history by far. Dark links up there too ^_^

Hikarihoshi · Mar 29, 2008

cwjalex said:
to say that you can do a "12" hit bair combo off the stage "easily" is just foolish

Yeah... 12 seems a lot, but eh, it might be possible. I only gotten up to 8 bairs off the stage before they died. =/

Ghetto Fabulous · Mar 29, 2008

Its not that im downplaying anyones skill here, thats not what im saying at all. What im saying is that playing against someone online is completely different from playing them on one wii. Im just trying to make sure that no one is thinking they are good because they win online, due to the fact that the lag on the wifi is so bad right now that it just screws up the gameplay. Heres an analogy:
Suppose you only played on non-neutral stages, like big blue and stages like that. After awhile u get used to it, and start to win. But because u can win on stage hazard stages means nothing, because once u get to a neutral stage where the characteristics of the stage are not biased in certain characters directions, its an entirely different game. much like how playing online u may get used to the lag and then start winning, but once u start playing without the lag its a lot different, mindgames are VERY different, and in that sense will become much harder for u.

now i know that there were some good people who played that online tourny, as i recognized some of the names. but unfortunately it is just not the same as a tourny at a venue in real time with monetery stakes and the pressure of being surrounded by people who are watching.

Ultimately im just trying to say that someone who is less skilled will have an easier time winning online against a pro than he would in real time.

but thats all irrelevant, because the REAL issue on hand here is whether jiggs can do a 12 bair combo off the side of the stage. i still do not think she can, and even if she could, she would die once she did it as she wouldnt have enough jumps left to get back to the stage. also, if someone is getting hit by the same move 12 times in a row, even in the air, they would have to be DIing in a way to help the combo, not to get out of it

Njs523 · Mar 29, 2008

Ghetto Fabulous said:
btw, alex was ranked 10th in New England in melee, just throwing that out there

Jigglymaster said:
Oh my god I'm so scared, hes ranked 10th in a state. To me thats nothing. I've played and beaten better than that.

Alright, first of all, New England is not a state; it is six states.
Second of all, you are a pissy, arrogant high school kid, who holds online tournaments in FAR too high regard (seriously, you want someone's FC to challenge them? What is that going to prove? That you may or may not be able to beat them on a horribly laggy connection that irreparably changes gameplay?)
Alex has won far more tournaments in far more things than I'm sure you've ever even been in. In fact, I sincerely hope you get to play him in real life someday, so that he can have his way with you and prove to you what a freaking scrub you are.

Lucrece · Mar 29, 2008

Could we get some actual moderation in this thread?

Youko · Mar 29, 2008

How about "get back on topic or infractions will ensue".

cwjalex · Mar 29, 2008

Jigglymaster, I like how you say that you are better than me and could kick my *** at this game yet I have never said anything to imply that I am good or that I would beat you in a game. Please grow up and stop lashing out at people because you are frustrated.

TheLake: "Its gonna actually be cool watching GOOD jiggz players baiting the aerial evade to avoid a wall of pain just so she can follow up with some wickedly timed rest or what not."

Unfortunately, I can't really see people trying to rest too much in serious games since it is not NEARLY as strong as it was in Brawl. In Melee, at times it was worth the risk of doing a rest since, if connected, would result in a KO. I also believe that the new aerial evade system will actually make it even more difficult to land a rest.

EDIT: 100 posts in 2 years... lol

EDIT 2: oops, I didn't see you challenging me Jigglymaster, but I would be happy to play. I play Marth by the way, ya ya I know he's good haha

FC: 2578 - 2912 - 0979

Froth · Mar 29, 2008

I never realized Jigglypuff was so good until I got owned.

Baconater · Mar 30, 2008

Oh kids, back in my day our fights happened in person. Don't try to compare one tournament to another unless it's entirely pro. cw, let him have his bluster. jigglymaster, don't be a ******* and take everything so personally. Also I really love that people are still using the term Jiggernaught. I'm not going to say that I coined it, but I started using it in Smash64. You can also refer to people as your Jiggb.i.t.c.h. or put in your name as c.o.c.k. so you can say that you're going to pound people in the face with your c.o.c.k. no jiggs on jiggs violence, so stop flaming, don't be trolls, no one likes trolls

vydran212 · Mar 30, 2008

ANY WHICH WAY, trying to get back on topic here...

I think that Jigglypuff's AERIAL GAME got a lot better. Most of her attacks in the air got buffed, her speed while jumping got buffed, and at least in my opinion, it's easier to combo with her in the air in this game than it was in Melee or SSB64. I'm not saying 12 combos or anything, but her air offensive has definitely improved.

The new aerial dodging has some people saying her D is better and some saying it's worse, so on a whole, I'm leaving the aerial defense as neutral. An improved O and neutral D means that Jigs's aerial game has improved.

Ground game however has definitely taken some serious hits. Her slap and rest ability have been severely reduced in power. Her running A isn't nearly as potent as it was in the first game. I feel as if she actually moves slower on the ground than she did in melee.

So the aerial players will say Jigglypuff is godly, and rightfully so. Everyone else who prefers a ground game or a more balanced approach will say otherwise. Top tier? In the aerial game, sure. Top tier overall? I'm not so certain.

Froth · Mar 30, 2008

Her forward b doesn't go as far as it did in melee. I'd say middle tier at best.

Doomblaze · Mar 30, 2008

I love it when ppl trash talk online and think theyre cool, lol.
Online play doesnt mean anything. I 5 stocked my friend, whos at the same skill level as me online cause he had really bad lag and I didnt.
On Topic: Jiggs cannot do twelve bairs in the air and consecutively hit their opponents, i have tried and the most Ive gotten is 7 (no, I am not amazing with jigglypuff), I doubt you could do 10. If you can, put up a video, please.

Jigglypuff is not amazing in brawl, definetly not top and very unlikely that she is high. She has been nerfed alot if you hadnt noticed, the ability to kill someone with a rest at 10 is gone, K.O.'ing people without gimping them off the stage is very hard, and jigglypuff dies easier than almost anybody else.

If you are good with Jigglypuff then good, stick with her, help advance her metagame, but do not try to say shes high/top tier for at least another 6 months.

We cannot decide tiers yet, people have to understand that

NESSBOUNDER · Mar 30, 2008

PredictablyStubborn said:
I think Jiggs has a lot easier time comboing than any other character, except wolf.

And of course, by using the word combo, we really just mean "landing hits in any way consecutively without dealing fatal knockback until the last hit of the 'combo'."

I can usually hit my opponents around 6-8 times in a good "combo".

Lucario and Lucas are the only characters who have useful "true" combos in Brawl. XD

Oh, and Ice Climbers if you can count chain grabs as combos.

I've been playing around with Jigglypuff lately and I find I quite like her new Fair. Other than that, she just doesn't come naturally to me anymore like she did in Melee...It also feels like the priority on all her moves has disappeared. She feels even more nerfed to me than Captain Falcon, who at least handles a lot more smoothly in Brawl than he did in Melee.

cwjalex · Mar 30, 2008

I believe what also hurts Jigglypuff in Brawl is that she, along with every other character, was slowed down. With the general decrease of speed it makes it easier to see when jigglypuff is going to try and attack you. Since her ground game is severely hurt due to a lack of dash and wavedash, she usually must approach with an aerial and is thus more predictable.

Froth · Mar 30, 2008

She isn't as good as she used to be. A shame, really.

Gonzoyo · Mar 30, 2008

Jigglymaster said:
Just because i'm 16 dosn't mean I'm not good at the game.
Hers the SWF link to the tournament.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147076

I am part of the MZ crew and we would kick your *****. I want your FC NOW. I bet you 100$ you can't. DON'T EVER UNDERSTIMATE ME. And I never said that I'm the best with jigglypuff in all 3 games. I'm just pro with jiggs in every game. I'm sick of your crap and stop talking **** to me cause I would kick your *** in this game so bad but ur a ***** because you don't have your Friend code displayed. Also, you having more experiance than me? Look who join first *******. You dec 2005 me august 2005

I don't have any brawl vids up but I do have a n64 jigglypuff combo video, just to give you an example. Other than Malva whos best with everybody, i'm the best n64 jigglypuff player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsulZCCw48U

Oh my god I'm so scared, hes ranked 10th in a state. To me thats nothing. I've played and beaten better than that.

Hahahahaha

Yukiwarashi · Mar 30, 2008

NESSBOUNDER said:
Lucario and Lucas are the only characters who have useful "true" combos in Brawl. XD

Oh, and Ice Climbers if you can count chain grabs as combos.

I've been playing around with Jigglypuff lately and I find I quite like her new Fair. Other than that, she just doesn't come naturally to me anymore like she did in Melee...It also feels like the priority on all her moves has disappeared. She feels even more nerfed to me than Captain Falcon, who at least handles a lot more smoothly in Brawl than he did in Melee.

I have to agree with the priority thing. Even in the air, I feel outpriortized by characters like Lucas and Samus...and Jigglypuff's up and down smashes really annoy me. I want Jigglypuff's feet to stretch out farther, **** it. >_< I did go back to Melee (where I never used Jigglypuff), and wow...she's really awesome in it. It just felt like she had more priority there. It's certainly going to be tough for Jigglypuff this time around. ._.;

Thinkaman · Mar 30, 2008

Bah humbug. Most the people I see claiming jiggs is "low tier" have other characters in their sigs and icons.

Jigglymaster is being really immature, but the point stands: it seems most the jiggs mains, including me, think Jiggs is better off in Brawl. Her approaches are all intact despite everyone and their dog having better defensive options, and her ability to pressure people off the edge is dramatically increased by the double fair (unsweetspotted->sweetspotted).

People saying that rest is nerfed might as well be wearing a giant sign that says "I don't play Jigglypuff". Sure, it's knockback is less, but it's ALWAYS VERTICAL. Do you non-Jiggly mains have any idea how incredibly important this is to us? Do you know how much we cringed every time we killed someone off the side with Rest mid-match, knowing that we'd awake to find a knee to the face?

I don't go into other sub-forums passing judgements on characters I don't play, why is this the trend here? Jiggs is just fine in brawl, and attempts to "place" her lower are just laughed at by the mains.

Take it away, Mister Chozen.

TheStig · Mar 30, 2008

I don't know why there has been an increase in Jigglypuff hate lately. Ok rest was nerfed fine, let's find other strategies and quit moaning.

cwjalex · Mar 30, 2008

TheStig said:
I don't know why there has been an increase in Jigglypuff hate lately. Ok rest was nerfed fine, let's find other strategies and quit moaning.

Thinkamin, who you main/have as an icon really has nothing to do with your opinion on a character...I have a ness icon even though in melee he was my LEAST used character

I really don't think the problem is "hating" jigglypuff. I still love to use her, but when someone starts a thread titled "holy crap, jigglypuff is awesome in brawl" when clearly she has been weakened since melee there are people who are bound to make arguments showing why she is not as good as she was in Melee. Furthermore, a lot of people are probably glad that she was nerfed. I've gotten taken out of more melee tournaments than I would care to count by Jigglypuff users (shakes fist at darc).

Holy crap, Jigglypuff is awesome in Brawl.

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