Calprinicus's Guide to the Ice Climbers (UPDATED 4-12)

calprinicus · Mar 29, 2008

Calprinicus’s strategy guide to the Ice Climbers

If you would like to contribute knowledge please reply with a post. I will credit you for your help!

LATEST UPDATE: 4-8-08 lots of small stuff

Other guides by me:
Toon Link
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0={:::::::::::> INDEX

--How to find article faster:
Since this is a long tutorial, to find what your looking for faster please hit “Ctrl+F” on your keyboard and type what is in the []s in the search box and press “next” to skip to the article!

CHAPTERS:
01. [CHP01] Introduction
02. [CHP02] Move set
03. [CHP03] Tips and Tactics
04. [CHP04] Strategy
05. [CHP05] Combos
06. [CHP06] Character Match-ups
08. [CHP07] F.A.Q
09. [CHP08] Videos
10. [CHP09] Credits
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0={:::::::::::> INTRODUCTION [CHP01]

--About Me: I don't consider myself to be a pro at ICs however I will share all the information I find with you and whoever else reads this guide.
--Why Ice Climbers:
--Summary of Background:

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0={:::::::::::> MOVE-SET [CHP02]

-- GROUND
Jab:

Description: This is a series of two hits. The first swings forward hitting for 5% damage and the second hits for 6% with a little bit of knock back. For a total of 11% damage.
Uses:

U-tilt:

Description: They thrust their hammer upward twisting them for a series of hits totaling 17% damage.
Uses:At low percentages, using U-tilt can score you a grab since it'll just juggle them a little and then they'll fall into your hands.

F-tilt:

Description: They swing their hammers horizontally dealing 16% damage.
Uses:

D-tilt:

Description: They swing their hammers along the ground dealing 10% damage.
Uses:

Running:

Description: They lunge forward swinging their hammers upward dealing 10% damage.
Uses:

U-smash

Description: They swing their hammers around their heads dealing 20% damage uncharged and 28% charged.
Uses: Hits on all sides.

F-smash

Description: They swing their hammers vertically downwards dealing 23% damage uncharged and 32% damage charged.
Uses: Hits on all sides

D-smash

Description: They swing their hammers around their feet dealing 20% uncharged and 28% charged.
Uses: This can deal 38% uncharged and 44% charged if spaced right.

--AERIAL
N-air

Description: They spin in two circles flinging their hammers dealing 12% damage.
Uses:

U-air

Description: They thrust their hammers upwards dealing 17% damage.
Uses: This is by far the best move to use if your opponent is above you. It juggles well, has high priority and can really just keep you from getting ***** out of the sky.

B-air

Description: They swing their hammer behind their backs dealing 19% damage.
Uses:

F-air

Description: They swing their hammers vertically downwards dealing 24% damage.
Uses: Meteor spike (Nana Only)

D-air

Description: They stand on their hammers riding them downwards dealing 13% damage.
Uses:

--GRABS/THROWS
D-throw

Description: they smash the enemies head to the ground. This deals 8% damage.
Uses: highest grab damage. This is the best throw to set up for a spike on the edge of the stage. Also, against some characters (preferably if the opponent has bad DI), A single IC can chain with the d-throw.

B-throw

Description: they throw the opponent behind them. This deals 6% damage.
Uses:This is important in the f-throw chaingrab since it allows you to turn it around and go the other way. You can also f-throw to Nana, charge an Up Smash and then have Nana b-throw into it. This is a great finisher.

F-throw

Description: They use their hammer like a bat and hit the opponent.This deals 6% damage.
Uses:

U-throw

Description: They swing their hammers above them dealing 6% damage to the opponent.
Uses:

Throw Hit

Description: they head-butt their opponent dealing 3% damage.
Uses:

--SPECIALS
B = (Ice Shot)

Description: they shoot out ice that slides on the ground. This deals 2% per ice cube.
Uses: ONLY PROJECTILE!

U-B = (Belay)

Description: They jump in the air with a piece of rope that attaches to them dealing 16% damage if hit.
Uses:

F-B = (Squall Hammer)

Description: The spin around each other with their hammers flinging about. This deals 2% damage per hit.
Uses: Best recovery when solo.

D-B = (Blizzard)

Description: The breath ice out dealing 2% damage per hit.
Uses:

--DAMAGE TABLE

Code:

		Popo	Nana	Together
GROUND 
Jab		3>4	2>2	5>6
U-Tilt		10	7	17 (1/hit)
F-Tilt          9	7	16
D-Tilt		6	4	10	
Running		6	4	10
F-Smash		13	10	23
F-Smash CH	16	16	32
D-Smash		12	8	20 (38 if spaced right)
D-Smash CH	16	12	32 (44 if spaced right)
U-Smash		11	9	20
U-Smash CH	15	13	28

THROWS
F-Throw		8	8	8
D-Throw		6	6	6		
U-Throw		6	6	6	
B-Throw		6	6	6
Throw Hit	3	3	3

AERIALS
B-Air		11	8	19
F-Air		12	12	24
U-Air		9	8	17
D-Air		8	5	13		

SPECIALS
N-Special	2/hit	2/hit	2/hit
U-special	n/a	n/a	16
F-Special	2/hit	2/hit	2/hit
D-Special	2/hit	2/hit	2/hit

KEY:
ch = when fully charged
> = follow up attack
x/hit = x damage per hit

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0={:::::::::::> TIPS AND TACTICS [CHP03]
--Meta-game - what is it?:

Meta-game is the knowledge of the skills of the character and how they apply to the game. It is he reason for competitive play. In other words knowledge is power.

--Tips:

BASICS:

shielding: - what? and why important

normal shield:

Your shield can block all attacks and projectiles. The shield doesn't block grabs. After you block an attack you can let go of the shield button counter-attack. This is very vital to your game since it can stop alot of the damage done to your character. The shield will also decrease in size after being hit or you hold the shield button after enough size decrease it will 'break' and you'll be dazed and unable to move or attack. it will however grow in size after you let go and stop shielding. This can seperate the casual player to the good players.

Rolling:

while shielding tap right or left. You'll have a few invincibility frames while moving directions in that direction.

Side step:

Press down and shield at the same time to side step. This will give you invincibility frames and can negate all attack, and projectiles while staying in the same spot.

perfect shield:

The perfect shield is done by tapping the shield button during the few frames while that the attack is inside the shield area. This will flash your shield white as well as making a faint noise. This negates the move, can reflect projectiles (at half damage), and allows you to a move and attack directly afterwards. Though still ineffective vs. grabs. Practicing this is worth your while, since hard to pull off it's allows for surprises. Mastering can make you in the top players list (if one existed).

Air dodge:

While pressing your shield in air you become invincible for a few frames. you cannot be hurt, projectiles fly through you, and will not receive any knock back. This is effective for recovery.

grabbing: - what? and why important

grabbing is an attack that cannot be blocked. This beats all shield. a standard grab (either grab button or shield + 'a') allows you to throw your opponent wither forward, backwards, upwards, or down. During a standard grab you can hit your opponent by pressing the attack button while you have them held. However grabbing is expectially important to the iceclimbers game since they can chain grab and are the only characters who can smash attack while grabbing. every character will eventually get out of a grab however the more damage they have the more they have to struggle to get free.

Short hopping: - what? and why important

A short hop (or SH) is smaller than your normal jump. It's used by pressing and releaseing your jump button before the ICs get off the ground. You can use all the moves you normally can when doing a normal jump. SH is used for speeding up the game is the fastest way to use aerial attacks.

Fast falling: - what? and why important

Fast falling is making your character move quicker while falling. This can be done simply by pressing down while your character is falling. This is a common practice to make your game quicker and can be used with Short hopping to vastly increase the speed of your character.

Directional influence: - what? why important

The Directional Influence(or DI) is used when your being hit or the frames after the hit to help control your knock back. Though It cannot change it completely it can substantially lower the length of the knock back or alter the original trajectory of your character. This help on escaping your opponents combos and chain grabs and surviving at high percentage. every attack will have your character follow a trajectory which is determined by your characters weight and falling speed.

EXTENDED:

dash shield:

while in running animation use your shield. you'll have your shield bubble around you and be sliding forward.

dash shield grab:

while in a dash shield press your 'a' button and you'll go into a grab with forward momentum.

pivot grab:

while running press the opposite direction and grab at the same time. you'll turn around and grab.

hyphen smash (JC u-smash):

while running press your c-stick up to do your u-smash while sliding forward.

TID-BITS:
NANA:

Is the only one that can Meteor spike
Follows Popo 6 frames behind when 'synced'
Nana can auto footstool opponents when in the air.
Nana and Popo can grab the same ledge (FINALLY!)
Nana can switch to be lead in certain costumes: all above situationals are passed to Popo as the follower

FINAL SMASH:

normally I don't go over final smashes since in the tournements I play they're not turned on but there are other were they are so lets be safe.
NOTES:

The iceberg hurts non-allied players.
you can use your final anywhere just press 'b' after you get it. it'll always be the same size (though seem bigger on small levels and smaller on biglevels.)
the iceberg shrinks when it takes damage.

--Tactics/Techniques

BASICS:

Edge-Guard: what is it?

Edge-guarding is doing what is needed to keep your opponent off the stage while recovering and keeping you alive while doing so. It is CRITICAL to keep your opponent off the stage and forcing them to lose a stock. There are four ways to do such.

On-Stage:

On-Stage edge-guarding is when your opponent is recovering your waiting for his recovery while your character is on the stage. Since most recovery moves (u-b) make you helpless after use, you wait for their gimp so you can punish them and fling them off the stage once again.
Off-Stage:

Off-Stage edge-guarding is when your jumping off-stage to attack your opponent so they cannot get back to the stage. This can be done by either running/jumping off the ledge while on-stage or dropping from the ledge (tapping away from the ledge) while your grabbing it. Your Ice shot projectiles can be used as an off-stage edge-guard when your opponent is below the stage.
Edge-Hog:
Edge-Hogging is grabbing the edge of the stage so a recovering opponent cannot grab it. This will prevent them coming back onto the stage and forcing them out of a stock.
METHODS:
- run off the ledge and immediately press the control stick in the opposite direction (like a pivot).
- grabbing the edge while in air. The most effective way is to use your belay (u-b) since it has can auto-sweet spot.
Edge-Hug:
The act of having one IC on the stage while the other is grabbing the ledge. This is only capable with the ICs and a great way to edge-guard.
METHODS:
- While both ICs are hanging from the ledge press down and use your Belay (u-b). This will toss one IC on stage and the other will grab the ledge.
- While both ICs on-stage run and pivot close to the edge. If timed right Nana will fall and grab the edge and Popo will remain on top.

EXTENDED:
Desync - what is it?

Desync is when you separate the two ice climber animations so you can control them individually. You can do this during a grab to have one ice climber hold the opponent and have the other wail on them. Or you can desync to have them switch between moves. This vastly improves their offense and makes them hard to approach. Start to learn this technique as soon as possible.

How to desync:

Starting desynch- If you hold down an attack before the match starts, Nana will perform the attack while Popo stands still.
Grab desynch- After you do a throw, you can input a command for Nana while Popo is still recovering.
Dash dance desynch- Do a dash dance into an attack, and while Popo does the attack Nana should be recovering from the dash dance.
Trip/Injury desynch- If the IC's become separated or if one of them trips, then you can input the commands for one while the other recovers.
Ledge desynch- If one IC is holding the ledge, then you can input the commands for the IC thats already standing as the other rolls back onto the stage.
F-B desynch- While you're performing squall hammer you can input a command right before it ends and only Nana will perform the action.
Reverse grab desynch- Probably the most useful desynch of all. Simply hit back and Z, which will result in Popo rolling backwards as Nana does a grab you can then input a command for Popo while Nana recovers from the grab.
Belay desynch- Simply do UpB on the ground, then you can input commands for the IC that lands first.
Footstool desynch- For some unapparent reason, when you footstool jump, Nana won't always jump with you which results in a desynch.
Spot/roll desynch- Hit downback and shield at the same time. It should result in Nana doing a spot dodge while Popo does a back roll, but the timing is strict though.
Platform desynch- Jump towards a platform and hit down right when Popo touches the ground. Popo should drop to the lower platform while Nana stays on the top one.
Jump desynch- Hold downback as you jump and immediately jump again as you land. Popo should do another jump while Nana stays on the ground.
Tilt desynch- Do either Utilt or Dtilt and hit a direction on the D-pad then do a Ftilt, both should be doing two different tilts at the same time.
Ledge/belay desynch- Hang on the ledge and hit down and immediately do UpB. Popo should do a solo belay while Nana jumps onto the stage.
Initial dash desynch- Do a dash in the opposite direction you're facing, as the initial animation ends input a command, and only Nana should perform it.
Landing desynch- Jump and hit the opposite direction you're facing, Popo should merely turnaround while Nan dashes forward.
Aerial desynch- Do an aerial right before you land then input a command while Popo is still recovering.(*note*- you can do a landing and aerial desynch at the same time)
Fast fall desynch- As you fast fall Popo should land first so you can input a command for Nana before she touches the ground.
Reverse roll desynch- Hit back and L, this will result in Popo rolling backwards as Nana rolls in the opposite direction.

What to do when De-synced:
(These are a few of what I use there are much more than this. Important note: try to change up so less predictable.)

Approaches:

Ice shot to hyphen smash: Nana shoots ice blocks while you hyphen smash (run to u-smash). Stops most projectiles with ice shot and hyphen smash to lay on pressure.
hyphen to hyphen: nana and popo do consecutive hyphen smashes. great for close games or opponent w/o projectiles.
squall to squall: you get a few super armor frames at start, if you hit once you can move with the DI of opponent. can move across the stage rather fast.
ice block to SH aerial: keep floaty characters down while stopping charge moves and projectile. my favorite vs. my friends sonic.
SH blizzard to grab: when in close throw a blizzard after a SH, this makes them stay closer to the ground where the other IC can grab starting one of your chains or a dual smash K.O.

Defense:

Ice shot to Ice shot: self explanatory (furthest range).
SH blizzard to blizzard: blasts of ice slightly above and level. Blizzard is the attack with the most range and can help keep large characters at bay while you setup for something else.
u-smash to SH U-air: Help if opponent has a good d-air. and can help control where they land. (This is chaining your two highest priority moves)

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0={:::::::::::> STRATEGY [CHP04]
--Mind games – what is it?:

Mind games can not be taught be reading but by play, thought I guess I'll try. Mind games makes the opponent unsure about your next move as well as trying to confuse them, thus making you more effective. It's about being unpredictable while still having control of your character. My tag is 'Nana' which helps save the real Nana upon occasion.

Change it up:

This is all about being unpredictable. keep your moves fresh and learn to switch it up. don't do the same moves over and over like a noob. ICs are unique in being able to desync which helps alot.

Fake:

If you think your doing something to much turn it to a fake. Like if your constantly finding yourself running into hyphen smashes and your opponent catches on, run into a shield grab instead. The opponent will think your just doing another hyphen smash. You have to predict that they're preparing for another hyphen smash and can catch them off-guard.

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0={:::::::::::> COMBOS [CHP05]
--IMPORTANT NOTE ON COMBOS:
Combos are never 100% always going to work in a match you must know how to improvise if the opponent DI’s out of you mess up. The key is to use these as guidelines and learn to adapt in different situations.

Combos:
Chaingrabs:

Dthrow- You can repeat Dthrows until a certain percent that varies amongst characters, and it only requires one IC.
Dthrow into Fair- Just like repeated Dthrows this only works until a certain percent. If the opponent is still standing you can regrab, but if the opponent hits the floor then you can do a Fsmash. You can also use this to spike the opponent while next to the ledge, but you must hit the Fair while the opponent is directly under you.
Alternating throws- This is an infinite that works on every character, but the timing is difficult and varies on the percent and the character you're fighting against. First you grab with one IC, then do a Fthrow, Bthrow, or Dthrow, then grab with the other IC.
The hardest to preform is the f-throw to b-throw chain, since it requires a desynced set-up before you grab your opponent. preform this by having Nana and Popo separated then grab your opponent with one IC and f-throw or b-throw them to the other IC and repeat. The two ICs will eventually meet however this can be harder to escape than the other chaingrabs.

GRAB FINISHERS

Double smash throw: This is a good way to rack up damage and KO your opponent. You simply just grab with one IC and attack with the C-stick. This results in Popo doing grab hits while Nana does smashes. After Nana does the second smash it'll knock the opponent out of Popo's hand.
Charged smash throw: This is a good way to get off a fully charged smash attack for an easy KO. Simply grab with one IC and then hit the C-stick in any direction for a smash while hold Z, which will result in you charging your smash while the opponent is still grabbed.
F-throw to hyphen smash: Throw your opponent forward and use the other IC to run and do a hyphen smash when close. This sends them flying upward.
F-air spike: when you have grabbed your and they are off the edge you can throw down and have nana do a SH to f-air. This spikes them downward k.oing them.
Block lock: At the end of a dThrow to Fair use your ice shot move (n-b) immediately afterwards in initiate the lock (instead of re-grabing). You will have to continue to use ice blocks in a pattern to hit the opponent after he gets off the ground. This is hard to explain so I added a video in the tutorial section of this guide.
Squall Juggle: Throw down. Then use your squall hammer move immediately afterward (nana will do the move). When nana is at the end of the move use it again this time Popo will do it. continue this desync. You should be able to keep the opponent in air between the two squall hammers for quite a while afterwards.

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0={:::::::::::> CHARACTER MATCH-UPS (Alphabetical) [CHP06]
Any help here would be great
--Bowser:

Description:
Counter:

--Captain falcon:

Description:
Counter:

--Diddy Kong:

Description: every time I face a Diddy I shrill. Not because the match is hard, though it is, but because the bananas are the most annoying move in the game. be prepared to trip, fall, and get humped by a fast and tricky comboer.
Counter: First note: Diddy players love to throw bananas. They use them for approuching, camping, and defense. They're a great move. However annoying at the same time because they make you trip. The trip has lots of lag and since diddy is quick he normally attacks afterwards or combos up with another peel.
Don't worry the peels are nothing to the IC. 1.) a peel on the ground does no damage and just trips. 2.) they only do 5% damage when thrown. 3.) remember you can pick up the banana peels and throw them too. 4.) they can only trip one IC at a time. 5.) a tripped IC means a free desync. 6.) the desync with an approuching diddy = upperhand.
Your best moves to do after your tripped are a smash attack, blizzard, or squall hammer since they have more priority than most of Diddy's moves.
Diddy's recovery is bad as well. If he is hit while charging his jet pack barrels things they fall off or explode depending (if they've been fired yet) and he falls to a K.O. If diddy is under the stage desyncing ice-shots is a good call. or hanging on the edge while doing your b-airs is also a good call. but be warned if your edge-hogging and Diddy grabs the edge after a jet pack barrel thing, there is a chance you'll be spiked down from the explosion.
you can desync ice-shot to SH ice-shot if Diddy decides to camp. since it blocks his peanut gun and ruins his banana attemps.
you should play defensively and use your grabs to your advantage since Diddy is pretty easy to chain with. He is fast and has some powerful f-moves. you NEED to shield, dodge, and sidestep! this can leave some open time for a grab or preparing for his next wave of attacks or bananas. Use his gimps (slow attack lags) to start grabs. Diddy gimps: his rockets barrels and the diddy hump (a.k.a his f-b).

--Donkey Kong:

Description:
Counter:

--Falco:

Description:
Counter:

--Fox:

Description:
Counter:

--Game and Watch:

Description:
Counter:

--Ganondorf:

Description:
Counter:

--Ice Climbers:

Description:
Counter:

--Ike:

Description:
Counter:

--Jigglypuff:

Description:
Counter:

--King Dedede:

Description:
Counter:

-Kirby:

Description:
Counter:

--Link :

Description:
Counter:

--Locario:

Description:
Counter:

--Lucas:

Description:
Counter:

--Luigi:

Description:
Counter:

--Mario:

Description:
Counter:

--Marth:

Description:
Counter:

--Metaknight:

Description:
Counter:

--Ness:

Description:
Counter:

--Olimar:

Description:
Counter:

--Peach:

Description:
Counter:

--Pikachu:

Description:
Counter:

--Pit:

Description:
Counter:

--Pokemon Trainer:

Squirtle:

Description:
Counter:

Ivysaur:

Description:
Counter:

Charizard:

Description:
Counter:

--R.O.B:

Description:
Counter:

--Samus:

Description:
Counter:

--Shiek:

Description:
Counter:

--Snake:

Description:
Counter:

--Sonic:

Description:
Counter:

--Toon Link:

Description:A sword (disjointed hitbox) and projectiles... some would say it's the Ice Climbers' worst enemy. They play a ground game and rely on grabs for their major combo and damage opportunities. Despite how hopeless it could feel to approach a Toon Link, there is a way.
Counter: Since TL has better projectiles, he will want to camp. Don't let him. stay close. Beware however of his d-smash,u-smash, and f-smash will send you flying away and he'll start to camp again. (His f-smash is two attacks remember to shield both!)
His mixed projectiles is tough to deal with, but think of it this way: he can only shoot them one at a time, and there is a way to defend against each.

Arrows: Shield or SH Ice-Shot(not as effective)
Boomerang: Shield or SH Ice-Shot.
Bomb: Dodge or Catch with a SH, don't shield the bomb may not fly far enough away when it explodes.

Desynched ice blocks are marginally helpful. Don't get the wrong idea: They can still force TL to alter his spamming pattern, and you can use this to your advantage and approach him for a grab. If you can't grab him, try these approaches: dash attack, hyphen smash, squall hammer, running shield grab, or sh blizzard (extra effictive if desynced).
If you grab him, never mess up your grab combo. Because of hitstun and game speed, grab combos are actually easier than in melee, but harder to improvise on because of less possibilities. TL isn't THAT hard to grab combo, and he's pretty light. make sure he dies.
TL has a very gimped u-b, d-air,and grab if he tries one of these and fails: grab him.
All that said, TL still has the advantage in the matchup. This matchup is hard to learn simply by reading advice, you have to get out there and play him and learn how to deal with all the projectiles. Use your dashes, shields, and dodges to space everything properly, and don't mess up defensively... taking a few % from a bomb is better than being hit by every single projectile. Defeat his spamming game and grab him. It is difficult, but possible, and work on those 0-death combos. Though it's a lot harder than it sounds. Make sure that 1 grab = -1 stock for TL.

--Wario:

Description:
Counter:

--Wolf:

Description:
Counter:

--Yoshi:

Description:
Counter:

--Zelda:

Description:
Counter:

--Zero Suit Samus:

Description:
Counter:

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0={:::::::::::> F.A.Q. [CHP07]
Q: What control setup do you use?
A: everyone is different this just feels nice to me:

type: cube controller (Wave-bird)
tap jump: off (make SH easier for me and can use tilts better)
L - trig : jump (my main jump button)
x: grab (used for grab combos/desync since closer to attack and special button)
y: jump (used for grab combos/desync since closer to attack and special button)

Q: what is your player tag? what is your Friend code?
A:
Tag: "Nana" (for mindgames)
FC: if you want to play me send me a message and I'll be glad to reply with the code.
________________________________________________________________
0={:::::::::::> VIDEOS [CHP08]
--Important Video Notice:
I will show all videos that I find that play a good IC that I find important. Or instructional videos. If you would like to request a video please reply to the thread and I will try to put on if relevant. I will show all videos not just ones when IC wins. A good IC doesn’t mean you always win like some people might suggest.

TECHNIQUE VIDEOS:

COMBO VIDEOS:

MATCH VIDEOS:
VIRTUAL VOID:
IC v. R.O.B
IC v. Diddy(1)
IC v. Diddy(2)
MORE HERE
SOM:
IC v. DK (1)
IC v. DK (2)
IC v. DK (3)
IC v. DK (4)
IC v. DK (5)
IC v. DK (6)
IC v. DK (7)
IC v. FOX
IC v. DIDDY
MISC:
IC v. Pikachu
IC v. Peach
________________________________________________________________
0={:::::::::::> CREDITS [CHP09]
Thanks to everyone who is a supporter of IC and supports this thread.
Special Thanks to:

CORNER-TRAP: great write up for chain-grabs and desyncs
Choknater: ToonLink matchup.
Foxy K: move uses (u-air, u-tilt, d-throw (extended), b-throw.)

choknater · Mar 29, 2008

xD well, it's a start.

nice info on their attacks! i'm sure people will get crackin on the matchups and everything very soon.

nice and comprehensive.

Corner-Trap · Mar 29, 2008

1) You have the descriptions for Fthrow and Dthrow mixed up.

2) Chaingrabs: Add this to the combo section

Dthrow- You can repeat Dthrows until a certain percent that varies amongst characters, and it only requires one IC.

Dthrow into Fair- Just like repeated Dthrows this only works until a certain percent. If the opponent is still standing you can regrab, but if the opponent hits the floor then you can do a Fsmash. You can also use this to spike the opponent while next to the ledge, but you must hit the Fair while the opponent is directly under you.

Alternating throws- This is an infinite that works on every character, but the timing is difficult and varies on the percent and the character you're fighting against. First you grab with one IC, then do a Fthrow, Bthrow, or Dthrow, then grab with the other IC.

Double smash throw- This is a good way to rack up damage and KO your opponent. You simply just grab with one IC and attack with the C-stick. This results in Popo doing grab hits while Nana does smashes. After Nana does the second smash it'll knock the opponent out of Popo's hand.

Charged smash throw- This is a good way to get off a fully charged smash attack for an easy KO. Simply grab with one IC and then hit the C-stick in any direction for a smash and hold Z which will result in you charging your smash while the opponent is still grabbed.

3) Desynchs:

Starting desynch- If you hold down an attack before the match starts, Nana will perform the attack while Popo stands still.

Grab desynch- After you do a throw, you can input a command for Nana while Popo is still recovering.

Dash dance desynch- Do a dash dance into an attack, and while Popo does the attack Nana should be recovering from the dash dance.

Trip/Injury desynch- If the IC's become separated or if one of them trips, then you can input the commands for one while the other recovers.

Ledge desynch- If one IC is holding the ledge, then you can input the commands for the IC thats already standing as the other rolls back onto the stage.

SideB desynch- While you're performing squall hammer you can input a command right before it ends and only Nana will perform the action.

Reverse grab desynch- Probably the most useful desynch of all. Simply hit back and Z, which will result in Popo rolling backwards as Nana does a grab you can then input a command for Popo while Nana recovers from the grab.

Belay desynch- Simply do UpB on the ground, then you can input commands for the IC that lands first.

Footstool desynch- For some unapparent reason, when you footstool jump, Nana won't always jump with you which results in a desynch.

Spot/roll desynch- Hit downback and shield at the same time. It should result in Nana doing a spot dodge while Popo does a back roll, but the timing is strict though.

Platform desynch- Jump towards a platform and hit down right when Popo touches the ground. Popo should drop to the lower platform while Nana stays on the top one.

Jump desynch- Hold downback as you jump and immediately jump again as you land. Popo should do another jump while Nana stays on the ground.

Tilt desynch- Do either Utilt or Dtilt and hit a direction on the D-pad then do a Ftilt, both should be doing two different tilts at the same time.

Ledge/belay desynch- Hang on the ledge and hit down and immediately do UpB. Popo should do a solo belay while Nana jumps onto the stage.

Initial dash desynch- Do a dash in the opposite direction you're facing, as the initial animation ends input a command, and only Nana should perform it.

Landing desynch- Jump and hit the opposite direction you're facing, Popo should merely turnaround while Nan dashes forward.

Aerial desynch- Do an aerial right before you land then input a command while Popo is still recovering.(*note*- you can do a landing and aerial desynch at the same time)

Fast fall desynch- As you fast fall Popo should land first so you can input a command for Nana before she touches the ground.

Reverse roll desynch- Hit back and L, this will result in Popo rolling backwards as Nana rolls in the opposite direction.

4) I'll post some more stuff later.

calprinicus · Mar 29, 2008

Corner-Trap said:
1) You have the descriptions for Fthrow and Dthrow mixed up.
2) Chaingrabs: Add this to the combo section
3) Desynchs:
4) I'll post some more stuff later.

Thanks for your help (I gave you credit). I didn't know about some of those desyncs no I have to go back to training to check'em out.

Corner-Trap · Mar 30, 2008

calprinicus said:
Thanks for your help (I gave you credit). I didn't know about some of those desyncs no I have to go back to training to check'em out.

A lot of those desynchs came from this thread, but they are all pretty common knowledge by now amongst most IC players.

Also don't forget to add this to your guide. It's an infinite with the Ice blocks, give credit to virtualvoid though.

schof · Mar 30, 2008

a few errors

These are small, but I thought you should know about them, seeing as this guide is extremely nice.

Combos are never 100% always going to work in a match you must know how to improvise if the opponent DI’s out of you mess up. The key is to use these as guidelines and learn to adapt in different situations.

should say "DI's out or you mess up."

I will show all videos that I find play a great to pro TL that I find important. Or instructional videos. If you would like to request a video please write me. I will show all videos not just ones when TL wins. A good TL doesn’t mean you always win like some people might suggest and who him winning.

I think you mean IC instead of TL?

Thanks for the nice guide.

/first post

Corner-Trap · Mar 30, 2008

Add the Iceblock lock video to the technique section, and rename the pro video section into match videos(not all good plays are made by pros).

Tonyman · Mar 30, 2008

I used to be a bit into ICs, then i kinda quitted using them for no reason, but after seeing this guide, which i think will become an amazing and huge guide, i got the feel of using them again

Thanks, great guides, keep it up, i'll be here quite a while.

calprinicus · Mar 30, 2008

edit: wrong info

VirtualVoid · Apr 2, 2008

Hey there,

got some (Rather outdated...) 1vs1s. Check them out here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4255341#post4255341

p00pd0g · Apr 3, 2008

Great thread... can't wait till it's finished

choknater · Apr 3, 2008

I could write a brief IC's vs Toon Link matchup guide if you'd like.

calprinicus · Apr 4, 2008

choknater said:
I could write a brief IC's vs Toon Link matchup guide if you'd like.

Hey that would be great!

As of right now I'm heading in final weeks in college so I packed my wii away temporary to stop the temptation and addiction. I will write some of what I know when I get free time at nights as well as do a few updates I've been meaning to do.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR SUPPORT!

choknater · Apr 4, 2008

Description: A sword (disjointed hitbox) and projectiles... some would say it's the Ice Climbers' worst enemy. They play a ground game and rely on grabs for their major combo and damage opportunities. Despite how hopeless it could feel to approach a Toon Link, there is a way. But first, you have to know what he can do.

Unfortunately, your Nana doesn't react as quickly as a level 9 cpu. If you are caught separated, TL can combo your nana to very high damage. Just MAKE SURE he doesn't get a dair spike on her. Otherwise, Nana is a survivor... get out there and save her!

Camping the IC's isn't very difficult... TL can do it well. Just some things to watch out for when you finally do get close: a dsmash that only connects on the first hit can send you at a brutal angle. His dash attack, fsmash, and usmash used when you approach could knock you away for more spamming. Be ready to grab him at his slightest mistake.

(note: In melee, it was fast dsmashes that always halted their wavedash approaches... Fast dsmashes have the same grab-preventing properties in Brawl. Space accordingly as to not get hit by them.)

Counter: His mixed projectiles is tough to deal with, but think of it this way: he can only shoot them one at a time, and there is a way to defend agaisnt each. Against arrows, it is best to just shield them. It can be beneficial to run up to the arrows (or double arrows) while he is spamming them and shield as soon as you get hit. This will likely power shield since you have two shields. For some reason, the shape/speed of the boomerang makes it harder to power shield it, so just block it. Or if you want, a short hop ice block will stop the boomerang too. As for bombs, try to dodge them. Blocking them isn't really beneficial because it can bounce off your shield and still explode on you if you react incorrectly. Dodge the bombs, and if you can, catch them if you air dodge.

Desynched ice blocks are marginally helpful. Don't get the wrong idea: they can still force TL to alter his spamming pattern, and you can use this to your advantage and approach... but otherwise, just try to not get hit by everything and approach him for the grab. This is actually really hard... but I don't know, I was used to dealing with camping/spamming and waiting for grab opportunities in melee, and it looks like IC's are going to have to rely on the same strategy. If you can't grab him, try these approaches: dash attack, running usmash, squall, sh blizzard, or if you're feeling lucky, full hop dair.

Also, same rule applies as in melee: If you grab him, never mess up your grab combo. Because of hitstun and game speed, grab combos are actually easier than in melee... but harder to improvise on because of less possibilities. TL isn't THAT hard to grab combo, and he's pretty light... make sure he dies.

All that said... TL still has the advantage in the matchup. This matchup is hard to learn simply by reading advice... you have to get out there and play him and learn how to deal with all the projectiles. Use your dashes, shields, and dodges to space everything properly, and don't mess up defensively... taking a few % from a bomb is better than being hit by every single projectile. Defeat his spamming game and grab him. It is difficult, but possible, and work on those 0-death combos. Though it's a lot harder than it sounds... make sure that 1 grab = -1 stock for TL.

Reioumu · Apr 4, 2008

More on Desynching.

Dash dance Forward smash. What happens is you do a single dash dance and charge Popo's forward smash a little bit. Nana does a dash attack in front of you and popo charges forward smash. then when nana's done, do your forward smash. and you're desynched to do extra stuff.

Shaman · Apr 4, 2008

This is a great guide, I'd love the char specific sections, since i have way too much trouble against my noob friends Tlink, his aerials just destroy me.

NeoZ · Apr 4, 2008

Remove all the melee stuff(directional airdodge, being helpless after it, powershielding reflecting stuff, etc), this is Brawl.

calprinicus · Apr 5, 2008

choknater said:
I could write a brief IC's vs Toon Link matchup guide if you'd like.

brief. . .
great match thankyou.

Foxy K · Apr 5, 2008

U-tilt use: At low percentages, using U-tilt can score you a grab since it'll just juggle them a little and then they'll fall into your hands.

Uair use: This is by far the best move to use if your opponent is above you. It juggles well, has high priority and can really just keep you from getting ***** out of the sky.

Fthrow use: This is their second-easiest-to-do chaingrab. You just repeatedly fthrow and then regrab.

Bthrow use: This is important in the fthrow chaingrab since it allows you to turn it around and go the other way. You can also fthrow to Nana, charge an Up Smash and then have Nana bthrow into it. This is a great finisher.

Other Dthrow use: This is the best throw to set up for a spike on the edge of the stage. Also, against some characters (preferably if the opponent has bad DI), A single IC can chain with the dthrow.

Yeah I think you have most of this stuff in the guide, but You could put it in the uses for the individual moves as well. ^^

calprinicus · Apr 5, 2008

Foxy K said:
Fthrow use: This is their second-easiest-to-do chaingrab. You just repeatedly fthrow and then regrab.

Hey Foxy K thanks for the uses so I didn't have to type'em, however your wording on f-throw are confusing since f-throw is very easily DI out of even at low percentile. unless yourf-throwing to the other IC with a f-throw -> b-throw chain.

Kyu Puff · Apr 7, 2008

Some grab finishers:

F-throw to u-smash. This is my finisher of choice, because it's almost impossible to screw up the timing, and on levels with low ceilings it will almost guarantee a KO. F-throw, run forward and JC u-smash with the other climber (please don't call it hyphen smashing).

U-throw to f-smash. Basically the same as charging a smash, but with a different result. Use Z + C-stick to charge an f-smash, u-throw, and release. Your opponent will be sent backwards and up, with the same amount of knockback, which leads to screwed up DI on their part.

F-air spike. If you are by the edge, this is obvious; just d-throw to f-air spike with Nana. If not, you can d-throw -> f-air -> f-smash. (I know you listed this in the chaingrab section, but it should also be noted as a finisher.)

studly · Apr 8, 2008

that was insanly useful
i dont think ill be needing that help that i asked for

thanks man

Superstar · Apr 8, 2008

Charged smash throw- This is a good way to get off a fully charged smash attack for an easy KO. Simply grab with one IC and then hit the C-stick in any direction for a smash and hold Z which will result in you charging your smash while the opponent is still grabbed.

I skimmed your guide and didn't read this. Basically, I tested it myself, and when I read it here I went bah!

One you don't have though is that when you hit forward to forward throw Nana will also give chase, you can hyphen smash it for a vertical kill if you want.

Also, the Dthrow->Squall carry looks awesome to use, I wish to try it when I get home. Just picked up the ICs yesterday, thought of the desynch from Melee yesterday and I decided to check the IC forums out.

choknater · Apr 8, 2008

calprinicus said:
Hey Foxy K thanks for the uses so I didn't have to type'em, however your wording on f-throw are confusing since f-throw is very easily DI out of even at low percentile. unless yourf-throwing to the other IC with a f-throw -> b-throw chain.

pshhh, i consider that brief for a matchup guide. i've written a 4000 word guide on ice climbers before, i tend to go on about things.

very nice paraphrase by the way xDD

calprinicus · Apr 8, 2008

Kyu Puff said:
F-throw, run forward and JC u-smash with the other climber (please don't call it hyphen smashing).

JC = jump cancel
for a hyphen smash you don't have to jump nor is there a jump included. just tap up on the c-stick while running. I'm cool with calling it a 'dash smash' or something along those lines. that have relivance into the what your doing.

I'm very annoyed that every new 'techs' in Brawl has to have the word 'JC' or 'Wave' in it all because of Melee's wave dash and some JC they had in it.

Now if I'm wrong please tell me, but seriously people this isn't melee 2.0.

Kyu Puff · Apr 8, 2008

It's still a JC u-smash. The c-stick is just programmed differently in this game; to act as if you are actually pressing directional + A. Otherwise, you would be able to "hyphen smash" with other smashes. Using the c-stick is simply a shortcut to jump+A.

It's not that people want Melee 2.0, it's that this is an extremely old technique that was unknowingly renamed in the techniques thread, and people are still using this incorrect term.

Corner-Trap · Apr 8, 2008

I highly doubt that up on the c-stick equals a jump canceled Usmash. If this was true then if you did an Usmash on the c-stick while grabbing the opponent, then you should also do a Uthrow, but as you know that doesn't happen.

Kyu Puff · Apr 8, 2008

Corner-Trap said:
I highly doubt that up on the c-stick equals a jump canceled Usmash. If this was true then if you did an Usmash on the c-stick while grabbing the opponent, then you should also do a Uthrow, but as you know that doesn't happen.

Because Popo jabs. >_>

All of this stuff was accidental in Melee, and programmed to "perfection" (whatever that is) in Brawl. JC grabs don't exist in Brawl because Z was set so that it will perform A-attacks; not because the physics have changed. JC u-smash is still possible, however, and c-stick up acts exactly the same. C-stick no longer does smashes, but was adapted so that it could act as an alternate to the A button. If you run and try to c-stick, you dash attack. If you tilt the control stick and c-stick, you tilt, because the direction was already being tilted. If you u-smash during a dash, it jump-cancels the dash.

C-sticking a u-smash produces the same result as a JC u-smash, so that they can be used interchangeably. Should jump-cancelling a u-smash be called such, but have a different name when you use the c-stick, because somebody thought they found something new? No.

choknater · Apr 8, 2008

calprinicus said:
JC = jump cancel
for a hyphen smash you don't have to jump nor is there a jump included. just tap up on the c-stick while running. I'm cool with calling it a 'dash smash' or something along those lines. that have relivance into the what your doing.

I'm very annoyed that every new 'techs' in Brawl has to have the word 'JC' or 'Wave' in it all because of Melee's wave dash and some JC they had in it.

Now if I'm wrong please tell me, but seriously people this isn't melee 2.0.

lmao you should see the "thinking" thread in brawl tactical discussion..

calprinicus · Apr 9, 2008

Well you make valid arguments and I looked into it more and your right. My bad it is indeed a JC u-smash. . . however sad to say I will keep it as 'hyphen smashing' for a while longer. if I change it now I have to find everywhere else I mentioned it and change those as well. I know I could do it with ctrl+F but my grammer suck (as you could tell if you read the guide) and I probably misspelled it somewhere. then I get all these annoying little post of "WTF is hiphen smashing" (misspelled on purpose.) . I will change it in the future. Thanks for backing it up your argument I always like learning new things.

on a side note I like your programmed to "perfection", cause if it was then who the F*** put in tripping randomly.

studly · Apr 9, 2008

i have been trying to figure out a new combo for the IC

Do a basic grab.amd then do a tech roll....this causes Nana to roll and Popo to throw the opponent toward Nana...the only problem is getting Nana to do a move that will keep the combo going

could anyone help me figure this out...it could me useful

ill just post a new thread about this

rjo · Apr 12, 2008

Just a quick question regarding the IC's

What's the best way to approach a SUDDEN DEATH scenario?
I know it doesn't come up too often but for the off chance that it does ...

calprinicus · Apr 13, 2008

EDIT: srry dbl-post

calprinicus · Apr 13, 2008

rjo said:
Just a quick question regarding the IC's

What's the best way to approach a SUDDEN DEATH scenario?
I know it doesn't come up too often but for the off chance that it does ...

well kinda depensd on the character your bs but I'll try to make simple:

DESYNC!
you havr two possible attackers use them.
this will only be general:
grab desyncing is best bet. this Puts nana in front and you behind. Could also do a shield desync too, either works, but grab desync is faster and safer.

light: desync smashes and blizzards. blizzards to stop approuch smashes to kill . . . obviously.
medium: pretty much the same as lights.
heavy: They tend to be slow with lag. they can also get out of blizzards easier (IMO) during sudden death. I just do a grab-desync as they approach they hit nana as I roll back then run to u-smash (JC u-smash) and punish they're lag. works majority of time if they hit nana since they think it's me.

easy alternative:
shield -> grab -> double smash.

hope it helps.

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