What are Mr. Game & Watch's problem matches?

Amazing Ampharos · Apr 14, 2008

This is probably odd to ask as someone who's maining Mr. Game & Watch, but I have the issue that I've managed to convince a friend I played brawl a lot with by my success that Mr. Game & Watch is far and away the best character in the game and that the metagame in the long run will devolve into nothing but Mr. Game & Watch dittos. I'm pretty sure that's not true even if Mr. Game & Watch is looking pretty ridiculously good to me so I figure I would do well to ask other Mr. Game & Watch players with deeper pools of experience. I also notice few initial tier lists are putting Mr. Game & Watch at the top, and I'm kinda wondering who is keeping him out.

What are his hard matches? I'm pretty sure Ike has the advantage since he actually has more range and priority than Mr. Game & Watch and actually kills at lower percentages, and Toon Link seems like a hard match mostly because of that Boomerang messing up approaches, but that's all I'm seeing and both are looking like pretty soft counters. Am I right about those two, and are there other characters out there with the advantage on him?

mr_kennedy44 · Apr 14, 2008

I find both Links can be a problem. Both Link and Toon Link out range most of G&W 's attacks (not sure about the turtle though). Link and Toon Link's projectile game is better than G&W's and their projectiles cannot be caught in the bucket.

A2ZOMG · Apr 14, 2008

G&W also has to work hard to win against Olimar. Olimar can shieldgrab ANYTHING, and his throws are deceptively strong.

I'd also say Marth is hard because Marth outspeeds G&W, and his Up-b competes with G&W's B-air. They both can kill each other quickly. G&W however does win in ledgeguarding significantly as he does against most other characters.

Otherwise I'm not yet sure about what does well against him. I'm also convinced he's the best character in the game.

Lovage 805 · Apr 14, 2008

I've had trouble with good Snakes, and good Toon Links. Olimar can be tough too if they play gay

omegablackmage · Apr 14, 2008

i would say

- olimar: really annoying projectile and sheild grabbing game. really strong upsmash to kill you early
- snake: ftilt hits through all of your attacks and is difficult to counter, good projectiles, uptilt kills pretty early
- toon link: really annoying projectiles and very quick disjointed attacks, upsmash can kill pretty early
- marth/ike maybe: sheer range really but not something people can't work around with time i think

i really don't think link is fast enough to compete with gw but i don't have alot of exp against them, also my opinions of snake may change when i get more practice against them.

Lag · Apr 14, 2008

for some reason, my friend's diddy kong is problematic...**** bananas.

napZzz · Apr 14, 2008

omegablackmage said:
i would say

- olimar: really annoying projectile and sheild grabbing game. really strong upsmash to kill you early
- snake: ftilt hits through all of your attacks and is difficult to counter, good projectiles, uptilt kills pretty early
- toon link: really annoying projectiles and very quick disjointed attacks, upsmash can kill pretty early
- marth/ike maybe: sheer range really but not something people can't work around with time i think

i really don't think link is fast enough to compete with gw but i don't have alot of exp against them, also my opinions of snake may change when i get more practice against them.

My friends I play smash with both play ike and toon link, and G&W has the advantage on ike, hes slow and all you have to do punish him from his laggy moves. Depending on how you play, G&W can be the counter to tl. You need to rush him and stay on him so he cant spam his projectiles, but watch out for his hookshot. I HATE OLIMAR I cant figure out how to get past him though any tips? I also play snake and if anything i'm afraid against a good g&w. Try to grab alot and stay close to him. The bair can stop histilts and force him to get away and then follow him and beat him uppp. Its easy to spike him when he uses his up b. Never faCed a good marth though.

G&W is probably not the best character because he is REALLY light and and his roll is laggy.

Mr. Escalator · Apr 14, 2008

You'll eventually get used to the bananas. Don't sweat it.

Ike has actually turn out to be an easy match up for my Game and Watch. Just play a smart game and avoid getting hit whenever you can. Be defensive and capitalize on his laggier moves with your quick ones; back air or Dtilt, but whatever fits in the moment. He's easy to gimp once you have him off the stage. Marth is harder because he's a lot quicker with his moves and he spaces with his range. He's harder than Ike, from the matches i've played. Ike hurts and kills real low, but only if you slip up and fall into his moves. Marth brings it to you, so you'll have to be much more precise. Tipper sucks :[

I've only fought one Olimar online, and he wasn't as good as me, but I think he'll turn out to be a pain. I had some real problems with his amazing grabs, and his Usmash hurt a ton. How effective is the turtle? This match was shortly after I got Brawl, so I didn't have a good enough feel for G&W. Someone else know how to battle a good Olimar?

I think Snake won't be as hard later in the game.

My brother plays a good TL, and his projectile game is hard to deal with. Also, he hits quick and hard on the ground, so I see him as being a hard matchup. Not sure about link.

For some reason, I've had trouble with Jiggly in the air. And with Ganon, but he's like Ike, so it's mostly my fault for getting punished so much. Also, not really a problem matchup at all, but G&W seems to do really good against Wolf. And MK.

GenG · Apr 14, 2008

I have problems with Snake and Metaknight. Snake can drop grenades (making bair useless as it makes them explode in your face) and use those *** tilts, while Metaknight is super fast and unpredictable.

napZzz · Apr 14, 2008

Just stay on toon link dont let him get any distance on you or else you will get his projectiles in your face. Nair and bair metaknight, that stop him. Put the pressure on snake with the bair and try not too give him to much space either. Shield his tilts and use your smashes on him since hes really heavy. Jiggs is a lil annoying in the air but shes light weight so killing her is easy really.

omegablackmage · Apr 14, 2008

ok so yeah i was saying only ike if they're really freaking good with their spacing and whatnot, but yeah for the most part you can just outspeed them and punish.

Lovage 805 · Apr 14, 2008

i suggest all GaW players learn how to glide toss very well, his timing is substantially harder than most other characters, but its SO good. helps loads against Diddys and ROBs

cedrick · Apr 14, 2008

i play regularly against ike, and i think gw has a slight advantage
worst matchup is against olimar especially with gw approaching with aerials. upsmash is a *****

A2ZOMG · Apr 14, 2008

I am pretty sure G&W has the advantage on Snake. Not a huge one, but Cosmo does win pretty frequently against Zjiin.

napZzz · Apr 14, 2008

seriously any help on taking down olimar?

A2ZOMG · Apr 15, 2008

My idea to deal with Olimar is to use your B-airs close to the ground to increase your chance of shield stabbing him. Deflect his spam with N-airs which have less lag. I'd also try to use N-airs to get behind Olimar, then FSJ him for a D-air, although he's pretty short. Once he's in the air, the key is spacing aerials and getting him off the stage.

Ghost Pikmin · Apr 15, 2008

To add, personally I have a spot of trouble against really defensive Dedede players (then again, all the good one I've fought have been defensive, so I guess it's just the way to play him.)

Since G&W can't bucket the Waddles, it forces an approach. Dedede has a surprisingly big grab range, so if G&W screws up he's probably get shield grabbed or something. Also, Dedede's hammer has a pretty good range and he's overall pretty strong so can KO G&W at low levels. Due to his weight and recovery, Dedede also needs a lot of damage to be killed himself.

I guess I'm wondering if there's any way to force a Dedede to take a slightly more offensive role so I can be in a better position to punish rather than being the one punished. I know I can catch his recovery move stars, but is it worth missing an opportunity to knock him back off the ledge again for one projectile in the bucket?

If somebody could give me a different perspective on this matchup I'd appreciate it.

A2ZOMG · Apr 15, 2008

Stay above or below King Dedede. He can't spam you with Waddle Dees from there. Also, find attacks that deflect the Waddle Dees if necessary. I haven't tested anything, so I suggest N-airs to deflect his spam, and maybe Bacon if it works.

UTDZac · Apr 15, 2008

@Olimar:

- Run around A LOT! Don't stop moving. Olimars like targets, and the harder of a target you are the more annoyed they get and they better chance you have of taking advantages of their mistakes. Abusing your Uair will annoy them as well. Use these to your advantage.

- Well spaced B-Airs may not always work. Don't completely rely on this strategy.

- If all else fails, always keep a loop-out for gimp kills, when you can trick the Olimar into getting off the stage so you can edgehog him. Its super effective!

Cosmo! · Apr 15, 2008

hardest g&w matchups imo

Olimar (disadvantage)
Toon link (disadvantage)
Metaknight (even)
Snake (even)
Marth (even)
Ike (slight advantage)
Link (slight advantage)

Needle of Juntah · Apr 15, 2008

ive only lost to meta knight so i guess id say metaknight.

olimar can be bad to if you dont come correct lol

daytimeninja · Apr 15, 2008

Anyone with a good projectile game that can't be absorbed is tough for GaW.

Steck · Apr 16, 2008

I've had a trouble with Ike( up-b when G&W is using fire) and Marth (range keeps me out, plus he's MARTH!)

Dizzynecro · Apr 16, 2008

Marth is not bad maybe even.
Olimar is really annoying just get him with up air when he doesn't have enough mins out and take your time geting him off stage, cuase he's super easy to edge gaurd. Also you can blow his mins away lol.

House M.D. · Apr 17, 2008

has anyone found a wtf how could i lose to <insert bad character> match-up?

napZzz · Apr 17, 2008

Playing toon linnk your only approach should be the bair and you NEED to stay on him and make sure he does not get any space on you so he can spam projectiles

§witch · Apr 17, 2008

Wolf kills G&W

A2ZOMG · Apr 17, 2008

I don't see how Wolf destroys G&W. Wolf neither has the great recovery or amazing disjointed range G&W has. G&W also has an easier time absorbing his projectile spam since it is on the slow side. G&W can do nasty things to Wolf's recovery with his own spam and the D-smash.

Mr. Escalator · Apr 17, 2008

Wolf countering G&W? Pshaw. If you're losing to one, he's either better than you, you're falling for beam spam, to which you attempt to bucket, and he's already attacking with Fsmash, or you're jsut not experienced at facing them. It's ok, you'll learn to beat him, I believe. Don't let him pressure you into doing silly things. Bucket before he lasers, when he spaces, and put it away immediately after. He'll probably beat you on the ground; Dtilt isn't as useful and it's a pain to space hammers. Turtle covers Wolf, so use it. You can sometimes bait him to using his laser. Use your B and shower him with food, to which he'll think he can show off how his projectile is bigger than yours. Drop into a bucket :]

His recovery is a lamer, worse than Links. get him far enough off and he's screwed.

Tristan_win · Apr 17, 2008

I'm no Mr. Game and Watch player but I do fight a pretty good one on average

Even though it's not his main it doesn’t change the fact he’s the third best player I have of a list of 55 players. Needless to say he has the best G@W or I wouldn't be bring him up like this

Anyways what I've notice after many battles with him with Sheik, Zamus and Zelda(my best characters) is that Sheik might not have what anyone can say a real clear advantage but does give G@W a lot of trouble fight.

I guess mainly it's because Sheik is faster than and not as campy as the other characters in the game so G@W great approach game (the turtle) isn’t as available as to say against a defensive wolf. Also G@W can't absorb Sheik needle storm and with his low rolling speed and light weight even Sheik can kill him at decent percentages. Those are just a few things that come to mind

Ghost Pikmin · Apr 18, 2008

To add what the others said about fighting Wolf, G&W's bair has more priority than Wolf's side-B. It can be really funny to bait a Wolf player into using it by jumping around the sweetspot only to smack them with a turtle by the time they reach you.

I guess the only other note to add is to be cautious when fighting a Wolf in the air. His bair is strong and fast, and while his fair is a bit slower it has a bit of vertical range above the area he slashes at and it is still a kill move that can send you over the top of the screen. I'm not saying Wolf is invincible in the air, but he isn't exactly helpless up there either.

Lag · Apr 18, 2008

yeah wolf is beatable. all you have to do is bucket his projectiles and he pretty much is screwed for control of the stage. 3 of those blaster shots from wolf and you got yourself an instant stock (if you can land it that is). back air (surprise, surprise) comes to the rescue against wolf. don't underestimate his up-b, it has really good range. and his recovery to me, is somewhat very linear (as in easily ledgehogged).

watch out for his down smash, it's quick as hell. also his forward smash has amazing range and speed so watch out for that too.

Ilex · Apr 20, 2008

I have real trouble with ZSS. It's hard to approach her because her 'energy whip' has good range and high priority.

Surgo · Apr 20, 2008

ZSS's attacks, especially the 'energy whip', telegraph themselves very heavily. Watch for the telltale signs of the attack.

Tristan_win · Apr 20, 2008

What are you two talking about Zamus has an extremely hard time fighting G@W what with the incredibly hard time she has spacing him, his down air out priority most of her upward striking moves so it’s difficult for her to strike him from below, and because of his light weight makes her grab set ups fairly useless. Also her best defensive and offensive weapon the stun blaster can be absorbed so she can't recklessly fire it like she can in most battles.

This match is clearly in G@W favor.

The |Egg| Sniper · Apr 20, 2008

I honestly don't see how Wolf is good against G&W, especially not his aerial game. Up air screws around with aerial spacing, giving you the ability to manipulate him in the air. His ground game is a bit tricky, pulling that pistol out at random moments. Easily read once you get the hang of it.

Characters with unabsorbable projectiles are tricky...but let's be honest. If they suspect you of bucketing their projectiles, they'll be forced to use them tactically. Unless they spam like noobs, the bucket isn't exactly aways reliable. Use it sparingly, and remember it has AMAZING range (literally a sphere well around G&W's body). Toons and Links are the main guys to be aware of here, but their arrows can be ducked, and bombs are noticeable. Boomerangs are the most sudden and most manipulating.

Shiek's new aerial game could cause problems for those unaware. However, the only REAL threat with Shiek's aerial game is her back air. Everything else can be counteracted by G&W's aerials. Uair against her dair, bair vs bair, fair vs fair. G&W has the range advantage here. Ground moves are more devastating now, which is the main threat when dealing with Shiek.

Zamus has range, let's face it. Her forward B blasts G&W pretty well, as do most of her ground moves. The extended throw can be something to be aware of too. Do your best to get her in the air, or attack from the air. Manhole isn't the great wonder from Melee's past, but it has an extended reach to interrupt moves. Manhole is still G&W's best friend for the ground.

Zelda....sparkles are the bane of G&W in this match, not to mention one of the fastest Dsmashes in the game. She can hit you from any angle, but you gimp her ranged game with your enhanced bucket. Toughest of these three matches, IMO

Mr. Escalator · Apr 22, 2008

Alright
Lucario is pretty difficult. Or at least the one I faced was.
His range is giant and so are his rolls.

Anyone have experience against this pokemon? Tips would be nice. I already know how to bucket so don't bother mentioning it >_>

Cosmo! · Apr 22, 2008

Mr. Escalator said:
Alright
Lucario is pretty difficult. Or at least the one I faced was.
His range is giant and so are his rolls.

Anyone have experience against this pokemon? Tips would be nice. I already know how to bucket so don't bother mentioning it >_>

predict his rolls, like after you die and he's at the edge double jump towards him then dair backwards so you hit him as he rolls towards you. stuff like that. his fair is really good so try to avoid getting caught in it. use the uair a lot and upB up at him when he won't expect it cause his dair can be dangerous. if he's pounding your shield with a dair he might do it again if he's high enough off the ground so be aware of that.

omegablackmage · Apr 23, 2008

lol the matchup chart said originally that lucario was a plus vs gw, and i just don't see how. lucario has nothing to approach gw with which means he pretty much loses, plus lucario can't even kill vertically well at all.

i think zss is a bad matchup for gw. energy whip is fairly quick, easy to sheild but very difficult to punish. gun is got some decent range and is very annoying. armor pieces in the beginning of the match are reaaaally annoying imo (maybe im just bat at intercepting them). upsmash is hard for gw to go through with the key (i found myself cancelling one hit of it, and then getting hit by the next), jab is hard to punish, fsmash has pretty good range, she's pretty hard to edgeguard with her having so many options, and her upair kills gw pretty fast if she catches you in a combo. I dunno it just seems like a pain for gw to fight her.

i've gotten much better vs snake players and i think its even. just don't challenge the tilt and it gets a lot easier to face them.

Unit II · Apr 23, 2008

I tend to win whenever I play as G&W. The only character I seem to struggle against is Link (if the person knows how to utilize projectiles well enough).

Being aggressive with G&W is pretty devastating to opponents, although he doesnt move very fast he does execute his attacks quickly.

What are Mr. Game & Watch's problem matches?

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