Zero Suit Samus Dsmash chain combo tests(All characters tested)(VIDEO!)

[DarkShadowRage]

Well as we all know there is a down A chain combo with ZSS as we all saw in that video, it works well against fox and stops him dead in his tracks and nearly unescapable unless you screw up in it.

What I am going to do is conduct tests on every character with my friend just to see if I can trap them in it and how long before they escape or if they just fly away from the knock back of the First Smash.

I'll be posting on which characters it DOES work against and which it doesnt.
If you are interested but i'll be updating this thread with tests.

Time to see where this takes me :P

Video Footage of the Double Dsmash Chain:
SSBB Wifi Friend Match (DSR)ZSS vs DSTK-Fox
0% to 95% in a matter of seconds, Though I freaking hate 3 stock because it's too ****ed short.

SSBB Wifi Friend Match (DSR)ZSS Vs WNx-IC vs SRTM-Marth Ice Climbers Chained near the end of the battle.58% Dsmash Chain


Coming soon/Hope to get done:
I hope to get the percentages from when they can be escaped, if anyone wants to help me with this please let me know so we can get this done. And put it up here for all to see.
We need the % damage it deals before they are flying all over.

WHO CAN BE CHAINED AND WHO CANNOT AND HOW TO!:


Characters That can be chained so far:
Fox
Wolf
Falco
Sonic
R.O.B.
Bowser
Samus/ZSS
Ganondorf
Link
Sheik
Pit
Mr Game & Watch
Ness
Captain Falcon
Ike
Pokemon Trainer: Ivysaur
Diddy Kong
Lucas

Chainable but a Gamble:
Ice Climbers
King Dedede

Debateable:
Mario
Luigi
Metaknight(really debateable)
Donkey Kong
Pokemon Trainer: Squirtle

Unable to chain:
Kirby
Lucario
Zelda
Peach
Snake
Marth
Jigglypuff
Olimar
Wario
Yoshi
Toon Link
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer: Charizard

Chainable:

Fox: Fox can be chained very easily, he lands on the ground right after the first dsmash, just fire another quickly after, though be sure to keep up with it. Fox, Falco, And Wolf have a real hard time escaping this, it's almost impossible unless they fly back far enough.
Fox can be double dsmash chained up to 90% before he can escape.

Falco: Falco can be chained very much the same way as fox, however A ukemi can cancel the chain if you don't reach the attack in time.

Wolf: Wolf can be chained just the same way as fox and falco, same tactics and it stops them dead in their tracks.

Sonic: The fastest running hedgehog can be stopped in his tracks, the very same way as fox and falco and wolf, he has a small falling speed when he lands. It makes for a nice chain smash, but be careful he can also evade if he does not hit the ground. but he is basicly the same as fox wolf and falco.

R.O.B.: R.O.B. Can be chain smashed, when he hits the ground kinda like fox and falco, but be warry if he doesnt land, also if he fast falls backwards he can escape it, but he perfectly able to be chained. it's a bit hard but he is chainable.

Bowser: Dispite his huge size, he can be chained, but he can also escape if he fast falls backwards. Easy to chain, but can escape.

Samus/Zero Suit Samus: Yes we can be chained by our own attacks :o I had him use ZSS as well on me, it's escapeable by a backwards air dodge, but it's perfectly able to be chained into the smash as long as you can hit them when they hit the ground but it doesnt happen all the time you gotta be on time with it. Right as they land from the first Dsmash execute the other before they can DI.

Ganondorf: Ganondorf CAN Be chain smashed! it works the same as most others but he goes back a little bit further but he can be chain smashed, but be CAREFUL, he can SHEILD it and cancel your approch after the first smash as well.

Link: Link can be smashed up to 50% before he starts flying out, but can escape with a fastfall backwards as well.

Originally Posted by Sonic_keyblade

I was able to 0-70% (around that) Link... when I tried again he up-b'd out of it...

Sheik: Sheik can be chained very easily one after the other very quickly, they can escape just by moving backwards fastfall.

Pit: Pit can be chained up to 33% and maybe more but once it's near up to 33% the second smash tends to miss the stun and causes damage, so he is a semi-chain.

Mr Game & Watch: G&W can be chained pretty easily but he backs out quickly, you can get maybe 5-6 dsmashes in before he can escape.

Ness: Ness CAN be chained, but there is the hazard of him absorbing your dsmash so do this wisely.

Captain Falcon: Yes our captain can be chained much like ganondorf but after the 4th attack he can faclon kick you out of it.

Ike: Aether Spam, duh! Well this walking homerun bat can be chained easily he has a quick fall so he falls prey to the chain, becareful of his counter and he can jump out of it as well.

Pokemon trainer: Ivysaur, This pokemon can be chain smashed pretty well though can escape with a jump or fast falling backwards.

Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash.

Lucas: Lucas can be chained but it's rather tricky and he can escape from the first dsmash with a simple jump. Just have to make sure you are close to him while you are doing this to catch him in the chain smash.

Chainable but a gamble:
Ice Climbers: These guys come with a price, make sure you HIT THEM BOTH Nana COULD come out and attack you if you focus on popo, if you are chaining them make sure you catch BOTH! This one is a gamble.

King Dedede: Triple D is a gamble, because he can jump out of it, but he is also perfectly smashable. After the first Dsmash he will land on the ground in the smallest form this is your chance to continue it, and try to keep it going, however if you try again he has a chance to not hit the ground and can jump away, Chaining him is a gamble but it is perfectly possible.


Unchainable:

Zelda: Zelda however cannot be chained, she does not hit the ground after a dsmash, she floats up thus canceling any attempt to chain smash her.

Peach: Peach is just like Lucario, doesnt really hit the ground so she is unchainable as she floats.

Snake: I can't seem to chain him as even he does have a small landing he still isnt on the ground but I can hit him with a second smash which doesnt stun him but damages him.
But he is now unchainable.

Lucario: Lucario can't seem to be chain smashed as he does not hit the ground, I will try further testing later on but as of now he cannot be chain smashed.

Kirby: Kirby is unchainable, he does not land on the ground completely eleminating the chance for a second chain hit, if anyone wants to test more on this fill free to.

Marth: Marth cannot be chained just like zelda and lucario and peach he does not hit the ground, he is too light

Jigglypuff: Jiggs can't be chained as she too is way to light and doesnt hit the ground.

Olimar: He cannot be chained as he bounces too high for the combo to continue.

Wario: Fat blubber boy, cannot be chained his F-flap makes him floaty and he can jump out of the first Dsmash and he doesnt land on the ground.

Yoshi: Once again too light and his able to escape with his kick jump.

Toon Link: Unlike his counter part this walking AR code cannot be chained, he is too floaty in the air after the first smash.

Pokemon Trainer: Charizard, Like the others he's too floaty and he cannot be cought in a second smash.

Pikachu: Too bouncy after the first smash, the second dsmash just glazes him and doesnt even stun him. No chain.

Debateable:
Mario: I can sort of chain mario, though he moves pretty quick in the DI to escape the series of smashes, but if you are quick enough you can catch him in the chain but it's tricky.

Luigi: he's just about the same as mario, you have to be careful of the ukemi
Also anyone can jump to avoid this provided they get in the air in time.

Metaknight: Metaknight is really debateable I have only been able to catch him in 3 dsmashes, he can be dsmashed out of his mach tornado, after the first dsmash he has a small knock back and can be cought again but after the third he can fly to safety, basicly you can only get 3 smashes on him if he trys to escape with mach tornado, further testing will be needed.

Donkey Kong: Giant monkey with tie, can sorta be cought in a chain, but he can also jump out of it after the first smash, testing on this to see what works better will be needed here, fill free to test all you want.

Pokemon Trainer:Squirtle This pokemon can be semi-chained but he CAN jump out of it but he cannot fast fall, if you want to experiment with this go for it.

[Tristan_win]

Since Sheik has the second fastest falling speed in the game (or so I recall) this should also work on her as well even though she is so light weight.

I expect falling speed is the culprit here not weight.

Edit: Also you should really be testing this with real and in person players who know how to DI but if anything your test will show who can't escape if your opponent doesn't DI correctly/ jump in time.

[DarkShadowRage]

Originally Posted by Tristan_win

Since Sheik has the second fastest falling speed in the game (or so I recall) this should also work on her as well even though she is so light weight.

I expect falling speed is the culprit here not weight.

Edit: Also you should really be testing this with real and in person players who know how to DI but if anything your test will show who can't escape if your opponent doesn't DI correctly/ jump in time.

I would do that, but no one is on >_< I have to limit it to CPU tests for now the real person tests will come later today, Just want to see if I can catch them first.


Edit: Actually I got my friend to come on so we will be doing tests of EVERY character.

[Tristan_win]

Originally Posted by DarkShadowRage

I would do that, but no one is on >_< I have to limit it to CPU tests for now the real person tests will come later today, Just want to see if I can catch them first.


Edit: Actually I got my friend to come on so we will be doing tests of EVERY character.

I smile at the edit

Once I get home I'll happily look upon your results,

Oh and thank you for going out of your way like this to help the Zamus community

[salaboB]

Originally Posted by Tristan_win

Oh and thank you for going out of your way like this to help the Zamus community

I support this statement.

I'd also expect you'll find fall speed is what matters most for this, since the move seems to have relatively fixed knockback.

[Cancel]

im definitley going to try this out when i get home.

[DarkShadowRage]

Constantly updating this thing, we got a few more characters to go :P


My friend had to go for a bit, but we got a hand full of characters tested. :P hopefully it makes sense..I tried to explain it as best I could.

But yes falling speed really is dependant on this combo.

[S2]

Great thread.

A video would be helpful, but your written info is really good. Kinda nice that this works on many of the characters that are percieved as being potentially high tier.

Keep up the good work.

[DarkShadowRage]

All characters have now been tested.

Discuss? test out the debateables? try it out.

[Snakeee]

Very nice job. However, I don't know how good your friend is at DI and escaping combos in general. It still gives a good idea on it though. Also, Dedede cannot chain grab us

EDIT: "Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash."

If he can jump out of it how is he able to get chained?
And I don't understand that last part about Falco, think there's a typo there.

Last, I request you experiment this with double d smashes, they worked on the computer and may have been better than doing single ones... I can't play anyone until this weekend so I can't try this myself right now.

[DarkShadowRage]

Originally Posted by Snakeee

Very nice job. However, I don't know how good your friend is at DI and escaping combos in general. It still gives a good idea on it though. Also, Dedede cannot chain grab us

EDIT: "Diddy Kong: Diddy kong can be chained, for a good 4-5 smashes before he is able to jump out, but becareful trying again because he can jump out after the first Dsmash."

If he can jump out of it how is he able to get chained?
And I don't understand that last part about Falco, think there's a typo there.

Last, I request you experiment this with double d smashes, they worked on the computer and may have been better than doing single ones... I can't play anyone until this weekend so I can't try this myself right now.

Well he's pretty decent at DI, You can chain smash diddy for a little bit but they are able to break free, unlike fox and falco and wolf who have a hard time even getting out of it. these other characters can be chain smashed but they have the ability to escape.

as for Dedede I only said that because he's known for his notorious unescapable chaingrab, so i used that as a counter :P

[Ares And Enyo]

I'm pretty sure this works on snake - perhaps you should try again? Also it would be nice if all of these had exit damages and the "gambles" were put in their own group

[TrevynThOt]

yeah man escape damages would be useful i dunno what I'm doin wrong I can barely get fox stuck into it til like 50% and he bounes to high. I'm practicing it in training mode so i can get used to the timing but that video shows him doin it to like 100% what am I doing wrong?

[DarkShadowRage]

Hmm I guess I should do some escape damage, and as for snake I've tried multiple times he doesnt land in the second dsmash.

[Garde]

As you saw last night, Shadow, Wolf can escape after the 2nd d-smash. He can ground dodge/shield before a 3rd d-smash can hit him, unless your timing was off.