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How the "catching the Cypher" actually works

Zankoku

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So, a lot of you probably heard about how Snake can't Up+B again if you grab his Cypher, right? What's actually happening is that you're grabbing him. Realize that when you hit Snake or grab him out of his Up+B, the Cypher continues to travel, and when the Cypher flies up alone it'll hit you. This interrupts your grab and causes Snake to automatically break out; without a double jump OR an Up+B.

So, I did some further testing with other characters. As it turns out, if you get grabbed out of the air, don't get grab attacked, and break out, you DON'T regain your double jump if you used it already. You WILL, however, regain your Up+B unless you're one of four characters - Mr. Game & Watch, Snake, Sonic, and Pit. Pit may have his own reasons, but the only correlation I could find among the other three which also applies to Pit is that they can all attack out of their Up+B.

SUMMARY: Getting grabbed no longer gives back your double jump. You also have to get hit/thrown. If you had a cancelable Up+B (Snake, G&W, Pit, Sonic), you don't regain your Up+B from being grabbed either.

OTHER NOTES:
Wario's Bite, Diddy's Monkey Flip, Kirby's Inhale, and Dedede's Inhale all count as grabs, and thus do not return jumps on their own.

Wario's Bite CAN gimp Snake in the same way as a normal grab, but you MUST time it to get interrupted by the Cypher, because Wario automatically bite attacks and breaking out causes Wario to toss Snake out, returning his Up+B.

Diddy's Monkey Flip works like a normal grab, except it's aerial and thus has the possibility of killing yourself as well.

Kirby's Inhale works like a normal grab, but getting hit by the Cypher interrupts you before Snake counts as "grabbed," so he gets his Up+B back. Since characters can "nudge" Kirby in various directions while they're inside him, it's especially hard to gimp Snake this way.

Dedede's Inhale works like Kirby's, but breaking out causes him to automatically spit the character out, returning his Up+B, but not his jumps (oddly enough).

Damaging a character in ANY WAY during your grab will give that character his Up+B back, regardless of which character it is. The exception is allowing the Cypher to interrupt your grab. Letting a character break out of a grab when you haven't pummeled him/her/it at all will result in a jumping break out of grab, which should give most characters enough height to Up+B back. Snake/Pit/Sonic/G&W are still screwed in this situation, though, because there's too much backward momentum and they don't have their Up+Bs.
 

zamora

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wow...pretty neat

ill definately abuse this against snake players and laugh as they fall to thier doom hahahha
 

Endless Nightmares

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Yeah with Wario I eat him out of his Cypher and he can't recover lol

Awesome discovery, I'll have to really watch my *** as G&W if my opponents figure this out >_>
Oh wait I can sweetspot. rofl
 

A2ZOMG

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This ain't no problem for G&W. His recovery is too good to be gimped this way.
 

Browny

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meh. this will never work against good players anyway. all of thier recoveries are amazing, only pit has a change of getting grabbed out of his up b is hes stupid enough to not cancel it and simply fall to the edge
 

Zankoku

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56K: Really? Thanks for mentioning, I'll have to test out Wario and Diddy's "grabs" next.

Oh, and the four who don't get their up+B's back... only Snake and Sonic are relevant, really, since the rest can auto-sweetspot a ledge.
 

Zankoku

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Updated the first post with notes on non-conventional grabs.
 

Sudai

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I could find this useful against a Yoshi. I'm playing a Yoshi friend today. I can test to see if his Up-B gets full momentum boost after the grab.
 

flash7

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I have no way of testing right now, but I was wondering if this works with CFs hug (up + B)? I have a feeling it wont since it sends the opponent flying. Thanks.
 

S2

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Interesting info. Situational, but good stuff.

It'd be nice if there was some videos of how to apply this for those who are more visually oriented.

good clarification on cypher catching.
 

thesage

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I would like to say that in melee if you were grabbed and you broke free and u fell of the edge, u wouldn't get ur dj back.
 

k4polo

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Not really, I believe he can still C4 himself back up. And C4ing will give him back his Up+B as well.
Exactly. If I was snake and saw this coming. This is what I would do. Cancel the UP B(airdodge and then c4 myself.

Or you can grab them out of cypher and the fall and c4 themselves back up. I've seen these in tourney vids done already.

Only problem is when your damage is high it cant be done.
 

Cooper736

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Not really, I believe he can still C4 himself back up. And C4ing will give him back his Up+B as well.
Not if it kills you first. I've heard of several people trying this, and I believe that if you're over 100% or so, you'll launch off-screen and die. And if a character as heavy as Snake got hit off the edge by something, most likely he's over 100. So basically you're ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't.

What I don't understand here is how exactly you go about grabbing any of the four characters mentioned while they're in the air. I play Toon Link, and if I grab while on the edge, I'll only end up pulling the grabee close enough to the edge that they'll grab ledge. If I grab in the air, I hit them with my clawshot. I can understand characters like Wario or Diddy, but what about me (and other characters too, I guess)?
 

Depressed Man

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Not if it kills you first. I've heard of several people trying this, and I believe that if you're over 100% or so, you'll launch off-screen and die. And if a character as heavy as Snake got hit off the edge by something, most likely he's over 100. So basically you're ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't.

What I don't understand here is how exactly you go about grabbing any of the four characters mentioned while they're in the air. I play Toon Link, and if I grab while on the edge, I'll only end up pulling the grabee close enough to the edge that they'll grab ledge. If I grab in the air, I hit them with my clawshot. I can understand characters like Wario or Diddy, but what about me (and other characters too, I guess)?
True. It is a bad situation either way, but the point is Snake still has an option instead of falling to his doom. Not to mention C4ing yourself > falling to your doom (would you rather be blown up or just fall to death? :p)
 

Crizthakidd

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woot. hes almost not broken now! lol

now to find something on MK.

but seirously good info. especially how satisfying grabbing sonic or g&W outa their up B and fall to their dooms
 

Eliasopataso

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Maybe if Snake wants to take a risk, he can C4 and DI himself towards the stage and walltech off of it-> grab edge. Like a ninja. That's not very realistic, although it would be really flashy.
 

Zankoku

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It does... sorta. ROB can use his Up+B multiple times to start with anyway, so all you're doing is preventing him from refueling.
 

metroid1117

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Gimpy posted in AiB how Bowser's Koopa Klaw can be used to gimp Snake in a similar manner; from what I remember, he said grabbing Snake in the attack will cause you to be hit by the Cypher, which breaks both players out of the grab and leaves Snake falling to his doom.
 

NintenJoe

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interesting find to say the least.... Although this won't work often, I beleive it will work often enough to decrease the godliness of these character's recoveries. (if not just a little bit)
 
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