A better 'Super Armor List' Thread (4/30, 18:07 EST)

[NoVaLombardia]

After much complaining on the original thread about lack of updates, and me taking initiative to make a new thread, i asked for support before i would do this... So, here it is.

I will try to look at this thread every day, at most 2 days to see any new findings. Usually I will test specific frames to see when exactly the Super armor is active, but until my finals are over, it ain't happening for now.



TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. Terms Used
2. What is Super Armor?
3. NoVa's Super Armor Theory TRASHED!!!
4. Confirmed Findings
5. Unconfirmed/Untested Findings
6. Super Armor Specifics
7. Trash / Myths

PLEASE READ ALL SA INFORMATION BEFORE POSTING ANY (what you think to be) NEW INFO.




1. Terms Used:
SA = Super Armor
Flinch = An act of your attack being cancelled by another source of damage that causes
knockback


2. What is Super Armor?
Super armor is a state where during an attack, any attack inflicted upon the super armor holder will not cause them any knockback, allowing the attack to continue. Full damage is still inflicted even though there is no knockback.


3. NoVa's Super Armor Theory

BAM!!! NoVa just got PWNT and this lil theory just got trashed! PROVEN FALSE by Doval


Super Armor List




4. CONFIRMED:

Grabs

-All grabs, including Ganondorf's Side-B, Wario's Neutral-B, and Bowser's Side-B, do NOT have SA frames. Simply put, grabs trade hits with regular attacks. If you miss a grab and get hit on the same frame it would initially grab on, you will get knocked back.
-Video proof by Magus420; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeuXNw5P3G4

-"I don't think I'd really call it true super armor, but when a grab connects, it has the same effect as super armor for that one frame. In other words, I can grab someone and get hit from behind (the person I grabbed was not even attacking), but my character does not flinch if the hit connects on the same frame as the grab connects. I believe this mechanic was implemented to prevent freezing glitches or other strange effects." ---by 3GOD

Video proof: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3BAcZLy353o ---by 3GOD


Charizard

• Charizard's up+B, the initial frames of the move.
• Charizard's Forward+B, during startup, contributed by crazymasterhand

Donkey Kong

• Donkey Kong's fully charged Giant Punch, not sure when it has super armor, contributed by Kyle_Wattula
• UP-B (Grounded) on start-up, by Kyle_Wattula
• Cargo Carry has massive SA frames, by Kyle_Wattula

Ganondorf

• Side-B, after you grab someone, until they are released.

Ike

• Ike's neutral+B, when executing the move but not charging, contributed by Miracle Matter
• Ike's up+B, I believe from when he throws his sword up until he grabs it he jumps to grab it, by Ankoku

King DeDeDe

• UP-B, once in motion and ends slightly before peak of jump. [i]contributed by Doval[i]

Olimar

• Olimar's down+B, initial frames of the move, contributed by takun

Pit

• Pit's Down+B, the Shield. Confirmed in the video by Ryanarius

Snake

• Snake's Up+B, during the initial frames of the move, contributed by Miracle Matter
• Up+B is not standard SA

Squirtle

• F-smash, by Serpit

Wario

• Wario's Forward Smash, contributed by Raph_Stryker
• Wario's down+b

Yoshi

• Yoshi's second jump, during the time he's jumping, contributed by Raph_Stryker
• 2nd jump is not standard SA

5. UNCONFIRMED / UNTESTED:

Donkey Kong

• F-air

Ice Climbers

• Side-B (Squall Hammer), in the first few frames, contributed by slacker!

King DeDeDe

• Neutral-B, right before he sucks you in, by Mew2King

Squirtle

• F-smash has exactly 1 frame of SA, right before the launch, but unsure at what exact frame, by NoVa

6. SPECIFICS:


Charizard, contributed by NoVa

UP-B (Spiral Jump): from start to disabled (blinking in air), lasts 1.08sec.

• Starts at Frame 4 (0.0666...sec into the attack)
• Ends at Frame 13 (0.21666...sec into the attack).
• Consists of 9 SA Frames, or 0.15sec worth of SA Frames, which consists of 13% of the UP-B.

SIDE-B (Rock Breaker): from start to finish (recovered and can do anything after), lasts 1.00sec, or 60 frames.

SIDE-B attack (1st frame to initial hit frame), takes 0.36sec, or 21 frames.

• SIDE-B attack's SA starts at Frame 1
• SIDE-B attack's SA ends at Frame 19 (0.31666...sec).
• SIDE-B attack consists of 88.888...% SA frames.
• SIDE-B consists of 31.666...% SA frames

SIDE-B attack's initial hit frame = no SA frame. It is a regular attack, and can be negated with another strike (also seen as two swords clashing), therefore a grab will trade hits at the initial hit frame 21.

Donkey Kong, contributed by 3GOD

Neutral B (Giant Punch // FULL CHARGE): Initial hit starts on frame ___, attack lasts ____ frames.

• Starts on Frame 17 (0.28333...sec)
• Ends on Frame 20 (0.333...sec)
• Consists of ___% SA

UP-B (Spinning Punch // GROUNDED): Initial hit starts on frame ___, attack lasts ____ frames.

• Starts on Frame 10 (0.1666...sec)
• Ends on Frame 16 (0.2666...sec)
• Consists of ___% SA

Ike, contributed by NoVa

Neutral B (Eruption // UNCHARGED [tapped]): From initial start up frame to initial hit frame, takes 0.5 sec or 30 frames.

• Starts at frame 21 (0.36sec)
• Ends at frame 30 (0.50sec)
• Consists of 30% SA frames (0.14sec)

Up-B (Aether): On level ground -> initial frame to initial landing frame = 1.2sec or 72 frames

I haven't tested lag time on the initial hit frame when an opponent is standing on top of you.

DISCLAIMER: I am still unsure of the ending SA frame. IMO, its pretty difficult to test
the ending SA frame of aether by yourself, and keep an eye on the timer at the same time.
Although unsure, i feel I got pretty **** close to the real thing.

• Starts at Frame 18 (0.30sec)
• Ends at Frame 48(?) (0.80sec)
• Consists of 41.66...%(?) SA (0.50sec)

Wario, contributed by 3GOD

F-Smash: Initial hit starts on frame 9, attack lasts ___ frames

• Starts at frame 8 (0.1333...sec)
• Lasts through frame 10
• Ends at frame ___
• Consists of ___% SA

Down-B Initial hit starts on frame ___, attack lasts ____ frames

• Starts at frame 5 (0.08333...sec)
• Lasts through frame 10
• Ends at frame ___
• Consists of ___% SA

7. TRASH:

Bowser

• Down+B, contributed by Raph_Stryker, PROVEN FALSE by NoVa

G&W

• U-Smash, after the initial start up, contributed by Raph_Stryker , PROVEN FALSE by NoVa

Ike

• AAA combo, has super armor after initial jab, contributed by Miracle Matter PROVEN FALSE by NoVa
• D-tilt, after the start up frames, contributed by Miracle Matter PROVEN FALSE by NoVa

Jigglypuff

• Down-B, contributed by Corner-Trap, PROVEN FALSE by NoVa
• These are invincibility frames, not SA frames.

Lucas ***UPDATED***

• U-smash, during the initial frames of the attack, contributed by Krlos F. [b]PROVEN FALSE by Doval.

Snake

• Snake's Down tilt, as the hit ends. PROVEN FALSE by NoVa

Sonic **UPDATED**

• Up+B, by TheCatInTheHat, PROVEN FALSE by Doval
• UP+B instead has invincibility frames, from start-up to the frame before when he can first act. contributed by Doval

Squirtle

• Side-B, this does not have SA, its just some type of gay invincibility
• IF ONE MORE PERSON POSTS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS IM GONNA KILL EM >_<

Wolf **UPDATED**

• Down-B, the moment the reflector comes out, contributed by shadowmm151, PROVEN FALSE by Doval
• Down-B instead has invincibility frames

[slacker!]

+++thread. A little bit unorganized (colorsss), but better than last one.


ICs get SA in their Squall Hammer (side+b) in the first frames, not sure EXACTLY at what frames, but they do get SA.

[omegablackmage]

thank god, its about time. also thank you for removing the game and watch up smash, i tested that quite a bit and found no SA frames, while the OP in the other thread seemed to ignore my testings.

also yeah, if you cross out previously thought to be SA frames (which is a good idea, prevents people from posting what we've already tested) make sure they go at the end of the list, bunched together, its much nicer on the eyes that way. Also work on some organization. Other than that thanks a lot for the initiative.

[Brahma]

Not sure why DK's punch is on the unconfirmed/untested list. It gains SA shortly after release, when DK's fist is moving forward.

DK also has SA frames on his Cargo carry (Fthrow). Not sure on the frames, and not sure how it works. For example, it you grab Snake out of a grenade and it explodes on you, he recieves knockback while you don't. If you try the same with a landmine, you both get knocked back.

Also, on DK's UpB, the SA is basically the whole time he has his arm raised behind him on the startup animation. This is tur in the air and on the ground.

[NoVaLombardia]

Are you sure the UP-B isn't just the hits negating attacks? Or has someone come up from behind or below and you didn't flinch?

DK's punch is controversial, because a few people have PMed me different results, and not only that, but i keep getting negative tests. I wish i could test it some time soon but my work load is way overboard right now in school. If you could do frame-by-frame tests that would be much appreciated.

[scrubadub]

question... does getting hit while in super armor frame (SAF) slow down your attack? For example, on the frame you get hit, your animation freezes as to absorb the hit but not flinch then your attack completes...

[Lovage 805]

finally someone disproves the myth that Gaw has frames on his usmash...good thread

[Mew2King]

DDD's B move has super armor frames just before he sucks you up, dunno details it might be just like grab priority for same frame stuff, or it might be super armor. One or the other.

[kamekasu]

Bowser's Over-B.

[SamuraiPanda]

Actually, the day you made this I was going to ask someone in the thread to create a new one, so thanks for taking initiative. Whenever I get on the boards (when I'm not on my phone), I'll update the sticky with this thread.

By the way, someone seriously needs to figure out an easy method for testing for SA frames. It would make this thread progress smoother, faster, and easier.

[Magus420]

Think people. If the move is a grab and it's right when it's connecting, it is very very likely that it is NOT superarmor you are seeing. Read the part about grabs near the beginning. If you can't get it to work when the grab based move misses them then there is your answer.

You should clarify that part actually. Grabs don't outprioritize attacks; they trade hits with attacks. If they outprioritized them the grabber wouldn't get hit at all, which is what they did in Melee.

[Nick Nasty]

Good stuff Nova. This was a very nice read.

[FzeroX]

I know for a fact that Olimar's down B has SA frames.

I have a replay of olimar being falcon punched several times in a row by two falcons doing his down b and goes absolutely nowhere .

I dont have my wii right now so i cant record but it is really easy to test. I believe that the SA frames start when he pull out the whistle to when he stops blowing it.

[3GOD]

Originally Posted by SamuraiPanda

By the way, someone seriously needs to figure out an easy method for testing for SA frames. It would make this thread progress smoother, faster, and easier.

Yeah, I've been playing around with various ways to test super armor, but we have to be careful because sometimes attacks simply "clank" rather than it actually being super armor.

However, as near as I can tell, ROB's laser never clanks any attacks, so it should be the standard for testing super armor. I go to training mode, set the speed to 1/2, and do my testing while capturing the video. You have to do multiple tests, so it's not quick by any means, but at least we can get consistent results this way.

By the way, I know Wario's Fsmash super armor starts on Frame 8 while the hitbox comes out on Frame 9. I've yet to find out how long the super armor actually lasts, but it's kind of irrelevant since that attack will clank with most other attacks on frames 9-11.

[The MC Clusky]

Thanks for making this. I don't actually have the game. I just posted it because I thought it was useful.

Sorry if everyone complained. I thought the guy from shoryuken would take over, because he PMed me asking about it. I welcomed it, because I don't really care much for Brawl.