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[moved] SSBB AT Guide

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Jewdo

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The Comprehensive Guide has a new master, and his name is Vyse. The new thread can be found at the link below. Please visit the new thread in the future, as all of the information has been moved over. Also, any and all new replies to this *old* thread will likely go unnoticed.

[New AT Thread]

Dear everyone,

Thanks for supporting the Comprehensive Guide and helping me out in every way possible. Seriously, it wouldn't be half as thorough (or as accurate) without you guys! I began the project thinking it would be a solo venture, but the community here has offered an astounding amount of assistance. You information-sharing Smashers all have my gratitude. You are the reason this thread exists.
 

Jewdo

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Okay, guys - First Update! We're on our way!

Things I know I have to add:
1) Sources for most AT's.
2) Quotes from OP threads
3) Proper Formatting

If anyone can provide original sources (especially those of you who pioneered new techs yourself), DO NOT HESITATE TO SEND THEM. Locating OP's will take a grand majority of the time involved in completing the rest of this thread, so that would be a big favor to me. If not, I'll finish it all eventually, but the finished product will take a little longer.

Also, how do you want this thing formatted? What's easiest on the eyes for you? I'm writing this for the community to read, so tell me how not to make this an eyesore for you guys.

Final note - any and all information regarding additions, etc. is most appreciated. PM box please, at least until the final draft is up, but I can't stop you from posting in the thread if that is your compulsion. See you all again in the near future!
 

Kirby M.D.

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Captain Falcon can also do the extended F-Smash. A pet name for it is the "Stutter Step", and it is done by rapidly hitting forward on the analog stick, then back on the analog stick and forward on the C-Stick at the same time.

Ganondorf and Captain Falcon also have a special instance of the buffer system with their Dairs. Hitting up on the control stick and down on the C-Stick with proper timing performs a Dair as soon as they rise into the air. This makes the move cancel on landing. In the Ganon circles this is called "Thunder Storming," due to the fact that this can be done in rapid succession.
 

Qinopio

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This looks like a great compilation, much better than the current one.

BTW, holding down to not sweetspot is called edge pooping, not edge popping :D
 

NyTeStRiDeR

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SHADing ---> True AT?

its short hop and air dodging.............
might as well just call it buffering even though there are different ways to buffer other moves
 

Taymond

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Jewdo, I'm pledge myself to your cause. You know I'm a reliable tester and independent investigator. If you need any help in any aspect of this thread, I'd be more than happy to lend my aid. The "official" thread is far too infrequently updated, and we desperately need a REAL official thread. I had been considering making one on my own.

PM me with any summaries you might want me to write up, or things you might want me to test. I'm relatively busy this weekend, my cousin is getting married, but come midday Sunday I'll be back at school ready to contribute. Thanks for spearheading, and we're all behind you. I'm sure mugwhump would love to be an independent fact-checker, as usual, as well.

Edit: Because of the wedding and all the business etc, I don't have time to go scouring threads right now, but I can give you any important threads/info I have that you haven't yet mentioned come Sunday.
 

Jewdo

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Second Update! I've added some minor polish to the True AT's and General Discoveries section, a few OPs, and started work on the Character-Specific ATs. I'll write a new introduction, track down the remainder of the OPs, and format this monster sometime in the near future, but first thing's first - documentation. Everyone who discovered these techniques WILL BE CREDITED as soon as I find the time to track down and verify the original posters. Fret not.

If anybody wants to suggest an addition, subtraction, modification, or other change to the guide (especially formatting ideas), do not hesitate to tell me. I look forward to your feedback and the eventual completion of the final draft. Next update is due at 8:30 tonight, and I'll be checking this thread until update time comes. Peace out!
 

Dark Sonic

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsPU6nCm5iI
Sonic techs, including spin jumping, homming stall, and spin dash canceling (the down B to f-smash. Only you can do moves other than foward smashes out of this, it's just harder)

You can also go farther horizontally with his up B by fairing at the peak of the up B.


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155928
Pit techs, including Wing renewal, Wing refresh, arrow swarming, wing canceling, platform wing canceling, WoIZC (wings of Icarus Z cancel), Wind Lunging, Wing Pivoting, Arrow chasing, and wing shoving.

You should also include Pikachu's quick attack cancel. If you direct the up B into the ground during the second lunge you cancel all of the lag and Pikachu ends up slightly above the ground. This can be very usefull for quick bursts of movement.
 

Jewdo

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Third update! ALMOST DONE. I expect to finish adding the raw information by tomorrow, and formatting when I get around to it.

What a day this has been. 14 pages in MS Word and there's still more! I wonder what the maximum post length is here at Smash Boards?

Thank you all for the information I missed. I haven't added most of it (there's a LOT about Pit and Sonic that I didn't know), but I spent a good hour investigating everything. All of it will be added tomorrow.

That said, I'm still having trouble finding:
(1) List of Auto-Canceled Aerials - aerials with no landing lag. Did somebody write this, or did I imagine it?
(2) Platform Canceling (also, confusingly, known as Auto Canceling) - canceling landing lag on tilting/moving platforms, like those on Lylat Cruise.

PERSONAL NOTE TO ALL YOU OP'S - Tell me if you see your technique in my thread without your name by it! I'm still trying to figure out who found what first, and this is taking a freaking ton of effort. Old threads are tough to find, even with the search tool, since I've forgotten many of the titles. I want to get this right and give credit to those who deserve it. Help me out please? The gesture would be most appreciated.

I'm exhausted now, guys, so I'm off to bed. See you all sometime tomorrow. Thanks again for your help and peace out.
 

Taymond

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(2) is Candy & Gonzo's "Autoland" thread, I believe. In regards to (1)... I do seem to recall some documentation on the matter, but I don't have it in my "important threads" section of my bookmarks, sorry.

On Recoil Special, I'd suggest Zero9teen's thread for OP, though Panda's got a thread that has some brief info on it, as well. Zero9teen's has all those videos he made, though, so I'd go with that. Here's both:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152815
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152409

I'd also suggest the Jigglypuff Bridge of Eldin/TLink's Boat Level Final Smash glitch, the one where you can make her stay super-sized after, for the glitch section.

Sorry, i didn't have time to read all the character specific stuff quite yet, but it seems like you're doing a fantastic job compiling all this. Much thanks.
 

Vro

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Nice work, if you can, organize a little bit more with subheads, categories, and color coding.
 

Jewdo

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Many apologies, but I'm delaying the fourth update again until I'm done with my schoolwork. I haven't been able to do a significant update all weekend because my final psych paper is taking up most of my time. The paper's due Tuesday, and I'm not exactly waiting until the last minute to finish it, so I will have time to get the OP finished (formatting and everything) before the week is out. After a whole month without any AT Compilation updates, I don't think another few days until the last update will ruffle too many feathers. Thanks for bearing with me and I'll see you all soon.
 

Andrew Ott

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This might have to be double checked, but I'm pretty sure that "Falcon kick-like" down airs CANNOT be cancelled by Up-B, and simply finish themselves after 2 or 3 jump heights. In other words, you're waiting for the move to end, then jumping/up-Bing/whatever.

I tested with all characters that have one from a high platform on New Pork City, and this seemed to be the case.
 

Jewdo

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Whoo-hoo! Schoolwork is over! Expect the thread to be complete soon, as I'll be working on it tonight.

@Blankshot - If by B-sticking you mean Recoil Specials, I included an entry for those under True AT's. I've been debating whether or not it to change the title to "Recoil Specials (a.k.a. B-sticking)," but I suppose now that it can only do good. If this is not what B-sticking refers to, set me straight and I'll add an entry.

@TenKenRyuu - Thanks for the tip. I couldn't pull off a D-air cancel myself, but posted it anyway just in case I was doing it wrong. Your investigation is much appreciated. I'll remove the entry during my (semi?)final information update tonight.

Also, starting tonight, you can look forward to not staring at a wall of text anymore. I've tried to establish a formatting method that will bring order for color-blind smashers as well, meaning different sizes and styles of text. I'm only using white, yellow, and no more than two fonts, so I don't THINK there will be any problems. See you all when it's finished.

P.S. If you see this post changing shape, content, color, etc, that's me trying out formatting styles.
 

Doval

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Why is Hyphen Smash an AT? It's more of a feature of the game or game mechanic than anything else. It's like taking the fact that you can jump out of the shield, calling it Shield Jumping and pretending it's an AT. Anyways...

On Reverse Hyphen Smashing: It's not a Hyphen Smash at all. You turn around as if you were going to RAR, and do a Jump-Canceled Up Smash. Without the jump, Up Smash won't come out at all. As such, it should be renamed to "Reverse Jump-Canceled Up Smash" or something to that effect.

On Boost Smashing: Although every character can do it, only Jigglypuff, Sheik, Link, Wario, Snake, Falco and Wolf get significantly more distance than simply doing a dashing up-smash. Other characters either barely get any extra distance, actually lose distance (such as Kirby, King Dedede and Charizard) or even come to a complete stop (Mr. Game & Watch.) It should also be mentioned that Snake and Falco are the only characters that can connect with the initial active frames of their Dash Attack and still Boost Smash.

Jab Canceling is a hoax if you ask me. Unless I'm doing something very wrong, it's just making use of IASA frames, with a shield input thrown in for placebo effect.

"Pivoting Wave-Grab" is officially named Pivot Grab. Refer to the Dojo update for Feb.11, http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique10.html

As for becoming Zero Suit Samus, the precise input is {Up Taunt, Down Taunt} x4 during any of her three taunts, before the taunt reaches a certain point. See this thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155697

Great thread by the way.
 

Doval

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Orion: B-sticking is addressed under "Recoil Special." I have no clue what auto-RAR is though.

Anyways, more nitpicks.
"Auto-Cancel" aerials
L-Canceling is gone, but some characters have aerials that automatically cancel when they touch the ground. Game & Watch's N-air is one of them. There's a list around the forums somewhere, and as soon as I find it, I'll post the link to it.
G&W's n-air doesn't auto-cancel.
Canceling "Falcon Kick"-style D-airs
Several characters in the game now have "Falcon Kick"-style D-air attacks, which rocket them downward after an initial wind-up. You can cancel all of these after a certain point (usually two to three jumps' worth of vertical distance after the start of the attack) by pressing Jump or doing an Up-B move. This technique allows you to avoid the usual landing lag from these attacks.
These aren't cancels. The attack merely ends. You just maintain the velocity the attack launches you at.

EDIT: To be a bit clearer, you can't do anything until the attack ends; that includes jumping. You can't jump or Up-B any sooner than you could do, say, f-air, so it's not really a cancel of any sort (all you accomplish is...well, jumping.) The last bit about avoiding the landing lag is also false, because if you did a d-air from high enough that you could jump before hitting the ground, you would've landed normally/lagless anyway since the attack was already over. (further edit: Ah, Tenkenryuu addressed this already. Disregard.)
Stutter Step (Ganondorf, Sonic, Captain Falcon)
Mario is Missing from that list.
Tether Saves (any Tether Recover character)
How to Perform: This applies to any character with a Tether Recovery, whether an up-B or Z-air. When hit across a platform by a horizontal kill move, DI downwards, air-dodge as soon as the hit-stun frames end, then perform your tether recovery when the air dodge ends.
Effect: If you had enough time to complete the air-dodge before passing too far away from the edge, you'll tether-recover onto the platform. This can enable Tether-Recoverers to survive twice as long as normal.
If the character uses a Z-air tether, the air dodge is completely incessary. The game allows you to use any aerial or z-air as early as it allows you to air dodge (it doesn't, however, allow you to use special moves until you do another action, or until your character becomes unstunned, so to use a B-move tether you DO have to air dodge first.)
Lucas – Zap Jump
How to Perform: Enter a PK Fire at the exact same time as a double-jump.
Effect: Lucas rockets upward to about twice the height of a normal double-jump. He can also do this by throwing items at the same time as a double-jump.
For the sake of accuracy, Lucas has to press Jump first and PK Fire or throw an item shortly afterwards. It's not simultaneous. It's a small nitpick but it may confuse some people, or cause unneeded frustration; it's already a hard thing to do, and attempting to press B and Jump at the same time may lead to hitting B first, ruining the attempt.
 

Jewdo

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Nitpicks. Are. Wonderful. Thanks, Doval. The information has been truly useful. You were right about jab-canceling and D-air cancels, too, and I had no qualms with removing the debunked information. You have my gratitude.
 

Doval

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Thechene, try not to double post, just Edit your first post if you want to add something.

@Jewdo: No problem. Just glad to be of help. One more nitpick:
– D-air Stall
How to Perform: After being knocked into the air, do a Double Jump and a D-air at the exact same time.
Effect: Toon Link will execute a D-air and get stuck in the air. Neither moving upward nor downward, he stays frozen in place until the D-air expires.
Video: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=BnRmDoJm0VI
All the characters with diving d-airs (Sonic, Sheik, Zero Suit Samus) can do that glitch, not just Toon Link. Also, the character can move horizontally during the glitch. It should probably be listed under the Multiple Characters section.

Here's a couple more things you need to add, too. The first should go into General Discoveries - the game lets you do any aerial, z-air/z-tether, or air dodge MUCH earlier than your character becomes unstunned. Don't know what you'd call that - Stun Cancel? I know this isn't a "new" discovery, but it's a rather significant property the game has, and it's the basis of "Tether Saves." One more thing - contrary to popular belief, air dodging or using aerials will NOT slow you down or let you maneuver in the air better in any way, shape, or form.

The next is a technique I posted recently, for surviving slightly longer against horizontal KOs. The gist of it is that by air dodging as soon as you can, your character will be able to jump sooner, because the air dodge will end before your character's stunned was supposed to end. This lets you survive slightly longer, since doing a forward mid-air jump slows you down, but at high %'s it may come out too late, or none at all. Aerials work too, but very few characters have an aerial that lasts less than its air dodge.

Caveats to this technique: It doesn't help at all against upward KOs, and air dodging will actually take longer than the character's stun time if the attack doesn't send you far enough that you'd at least come close to the off-screen area. I'm not terribly certain what to call this technique, I'm thinking Early Jumping. The original post is here.

Finally, contrary to what a good deal of Smashboards currently believes, you can still Meteor Cancel in Brawl. It was confirmed recently (though Samurai Panda already knew about it, apparently), and I made a thread about my findings on Meteor Canceling which you can find here. Here's the summary:
- You can only Meteor Cancel using a jump or an Up-B special, like in Melee.
- Your character will always fall a certain distance (roughly half of the distance you'd normally fall while stunned) before you're allowed to Meteor Cancel.
- If you hit a Jump Button before your character is able to Meteor Cancel (this includes the attack's hit lag), you won't be allowed to Meteor Cancel with your Jump Button(s) for a certain amount of time. If you press any Jump Button again before this time passes, the timer will restart. In other words, if you hit the Jump Button too early and continue to tap the Jump Button, your character won't Meteor Cancel at all.
- There's no penalty for hitting Up on the Analog Stick too early, even if you have Tap Jump on.
- Even if you hit the Jump Button too early and can't Meteor Cancel using the Jump Button, you can ALWAYS Meteor Cancel using the Analog Stick (assuming you have Tap Jump ON), or with your character's Up-B.
 

Fabrian

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Er wow reading this makes me feel like I'm doing homework, it would be really helpful if people could make vids to accompany these techs.
 

Jewdo

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Nothing's wrong with it. As much information as the guide contains now (hell of a lot more than the sticky, wink wink *shameless self-promotion*) I've been having really bad luck with my time lately, so keeping current has been difficult. I finished the last of my schoolwork Tuesday, but doctor's appointments the past two days and impending finals next week have been occupying much of my time.

Excuses aside, I will add it soon. Check under General Discoveries for the summary and a reference to your thread. If you feel it should be in Character Specific instead, let me know and I'll move it there. I have a list of stuff to add that I'm running down in my spare time, so expect to see more updates in the future.
 

JDCAce

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AND WHO WAS YOUR CO-DISCOVERER FOR SQUIRTLE TIPPING?!?! HMM?!?! HMM?!?!
On a side-note, I wouldn't really consider Squirtle Tipping an advanced technique. I don't know your definition of the term, but it does not take an advanced player to Tip a Squirtle (unless the Squirtle as an advanced player), nor does it require advanced knowledge of the game or advanced skill to Tip a Squirtle. That's just my opinion, though.
 

icicleblade

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There are more variations to the Sonic glitch. On a custom stage, if you have a two slopes positioned with one to the far right, and another one slightly below it on the far left, with a character on the bottom slope, when you fully charge sideB on the top slope and hit the character, you will warp and commit suicide. I'm not sure if it works on all custom stages, but it worked on mine.
 

Sino

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I don't know if this is already been said but if you come down on the ground and press Dsmash exactly when you hit the ground you do a Dtilt instead of a dsmash or dair. You can practice it best with c-stick and you can do this with every character. For some characters its better to do a fast dtilt instead of dair or dsmash, like ZSS.
I haven't tested it with a Ftilt or a Utilt yet, but I will do this tommorow I think. If you need a name, imo Tilt Landing is a good one.
 

Dark Sonic

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Please add the pit techs.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155928
Advance techs Glide Shifting, Arrow Looping, Wing Renewal, Wing Lunging, Wing Pivoting, Arrow chasing, platform wing canceling.

General info-Wing fatigue, Wing refresh, Wing Shoving, Down B super armor.

I'm not too great with Pit myself, so you'd probably get better explainations if you ask in the thread itself.
 

Jewdo

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@Sonic Wave: I'm sorry! I've been so lazy about those, but rest assured, I never forgot about them. I never found actual "how to"s for most of those techniques, but I really should get on that. Every time I look at the sheer number of things he can do, a wave of lazy sweeps over me.

Pit is also the only character with ELEVEN (count 'em - ELEVEN) character-specific techniques for himself alone! I've been considering, when I finally get clear instructions for each one, making a separate thread in Pit's section and linking to it from the main guide (for space purposes). Thoughts, anyone?
 

Taymond

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I'd say just stick with the main thread. This thread ought to be for quick reference and such, not for in-depth discussion of the techniques listed. There are just far too many for that kind of thing. So you're not really obligated to separate it up into smaller threads where they can be discussed at length, particularly if you're not familiar enough with something to be able to actively participate in the sub-thread yourself.

In other news, grats on stickyfication.
 

Sino

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I guess everyone isn't reading my post on a good technique, so:
I HAVE FOUND A NEW TECHNIQUE:
I don't know if this is already been said but if you come down on the ground and press Dsmash exactly when you hit the ground you do a Dtilt instead of a dsmash or dair. You can practice it best with c-stick and you can do this with every character. For some characters its better to do a fast dtilt instead of dair or dsmash, like ZSS.
I haven't tested it with a Ftilt or a Utilt yet, but I will do this tommorow I think. If you need a name, imo Tilt Landing is a good one.
 

Taymond

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Is it possible you are just unaware that pressing down with both the Control Stick and the C-Stick will produce a Dtilt, not a Dsmash?

How are you experiencing this? Are you holding down, to fall quickly, and then pressing down on the C-Stick without stopping pressing down on the Control Stick as soon as you touch down? Because that's going to trigger a Dtilt, in the manner described above.

If this is not the case, then I'll give it a try myself to see what you're talking about.
 

St. Viers

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yo, woudl it be possible to include update information at the top of the frst post, saying like:

[update 5/4/08]
*added x
*fixed typos in a,b,c
*reorganized m

It would make it easier for someone who read it awhile ago know what's been added, making it easier to locate new information
 

Jewdo

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@Sino: I did read your post earlier today and tried this for myself. Simply jumping with X and pressing Down on the C-stick, I was able to re-create the Tilt Landing. The timing was very difficult, but it is a genuine glitch. I could not repeat the glitch with Forward, Up, or Neutral attacks, though, so I decided to wait for your test results before adding it to the main thread. Sorry for the trouble; I didn't mean to make you feel ignored.

@Taymond - Thanks for the feedback and congratulations (I'm super-pleased myself). I suppose I'll just have to be as concise as possible to keep Pit from taking up too much space. Now, off to the Pit forums and the IRC channel to scour as much information as possible.

@St. Viers - I currently include that approximate information in my "Reason for Editing." If what you're saying is "dude, nobody reads that field," then I'll move it to the top of the thread. I will only include the five most recent updates, though. With all of the stupid little typo edits I make, the thread history would be almost as long as the thread itself! Five updates (where "update" encompasses a whole day's worth of additions) should be fine, unless a massive wave of information hits or, Sakurai forbid, Brawl gets patched. *shudder*
 

St. Viers

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No, it's more along the lines of "shoot, I haven't read this in like 2 weeks, and all I know is the latest updates. Now I have to read the entire thing."

By having different update logs *in the thread,* it helps.

But hey, whatever man, up to you ^_^
 
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