Reverse Hyphen-smash ? Is that the right name?

Pi · Apr 24, 2008

Hm...I'm not sure if this has been discovered, I wouldn't know what to search for, I tried usmash and up smash and dash and didn't find anything...

But yea...if you're running you can turn around, jump, then UpSmash in the opposite direction from the way you were running...

I'm pretty sure you need to jump in order for the UpSmash to come out in the other direction.

It's pretty easy if you...example:

Run to the right
Tap to the left
Rotate control stick to up position and hit A

:dizzy:

Originally found by:

ShortFuse said:
You can say I "discovered" it, I don't really care. I learned it's a jump-cancel because if you disable tap jump, you have to press X/Y to do it, or it won't work.

Basically, I input it like this (while running left)

Holding Left, Downright Diagonal, While Sliding Up, I press X and a ms after press (or hold) A

I don't care what you call it so don't think because I figured it out that I will be against changing the name or w/e. I called it a Reverse Hyphen Smash because the "Hyphen Smash" (as pointless as it is) was on the list of the Advanced Techniques. It's essentially the same but Reversed, so I put reverse. I think a better same is Jump Cancelled Reverse UpSmash, but that's a mouthful unless you want to call it a JCrush (Jump-Cancelled Reverse Up Smash Hit).

And it's not really a redundancy of Hyphen Smash, because for everyone who plays with tap jump off, it's a special input to get it working.
And yeah, I use it as an Ike player. The back of his uSmash has good range and it's effective for running to an edge into a backwards upSmash since the sword will go past the edge.

Zetsuei · Apr 24, 2008

Never heard of that before. I'll try it out and let you know what happens.

sbisawsum_84 · Apr 24, 2008

i guess that might work, but usually you dont need your up smash to go the other way...

Coselm · Apr 24, 2008

I can confirm that this does work, although at the moment I can't really think of a use for this. It would appear that you don't keep sliding like dashing into an up-smash, but rather, you come to a stop when you do your up-smash backwards.

What I am interested in knowing is if there is any difference in how far you go with a hyphen smash and a jump-canceled up-smash.

So to conclude, you can jump-cancel into an up-smash both forwards and backwards while dashing, but if you do it backwards you lose your momentum.

Edit: fixed a typo

goodoldganon · Apr 24, 2008

TC has the best...sig...ever

Jewdo · Apr 24, 2008

Coselm said:
I can confirm that this does work, although at the moment I can't really think of a use for this. It would appear that you don't keep sliding like dashing into an up-smash, but rather, you come to a stop when you do your up smash backwards.
....
So to conclude, you can jump-cancel into an up-smash both forwards and backwards while dashing, but if you do it backwards you lost your momentum.

Seconded. This technique does indeed work.

Coselm said:
What I am interested in knowing is if there is any difference in how far you go with a hyphen smash and a jump canceled up smash.

If by "Hyphen Smashing" you mean the same thing as "Snake-dashing" or "Smash Boosting" (the technique has too many names), then there is a noticeable difference. "Hyphen Smashing" goes much farther than Jump-Canceled Up-Smash, at least as I've experienced it. I think the roll in Hyphen Smashing creates extra momentum, while the Jump-Canceled Up-smash just rides on the momentum from your run. If not, please correct me.

Pi · Apr 24, 2008

goodoldganon said:
TC has the best...sig...ever

thanks!

But yea, as far as usefulness goes I don't see much, at least not for the majority of the cast. I guess if your intent was to run behind them it might work, like the turn around grab thing. Or if you're running away you could do it. You could also charge it up for some mind games... :dizzy:

I dunno, I don't think it'll be widely used but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Taymond · Apr 25, 2008

Jewdo said:
If by "Hyphen Smashing" you mean the same thing as "Snake-dashing" or "Smash Boosting" (the technique has too many names), then there is a noticeable difference. "Hyphen Smashing" goes much farther than Jump-Canceled Up-Smash, at least as I've experienced it. I think the roll in Hyphen Smashing creates extra momentum, while the Jump-Canceled Up-smash just rides on the momentum from your run. If not, please correct me.

Well, we're talking about 3 things, not 2.

Hyphen Smashing uses running momentum, "smash boosting" or whatever we're calling it this week uses initial dash momentum, and JC Usmash uses uh.. probably the same run-momentum as hyphen smashing (we need a new name for this, seriously)? I'm not in a position to test right now, so I apologize if I'm wrong.

GoForkUrself · Apr 30, 2008

Umm, most Ike mains have been aware of this technique for over a month now. In the Ike guide written mid March, they credit "Shortfuse" for the discovery and called it Reverse Hyphen smashing. I play with tap jump off, so I manually jump by hitting X and A at the same time. Ike has slightly more range at his back, so Ike users sometimes do a reverse-hyphen smash.
So yeah, Taymond is right about how the technique works. I agree that we need a new name for hyphen smash. Perhaps just dashing upsmash?

Taymond · Apr 30, 2008

In particular, this needs to be called something other than Reverse Hyphen Smash, because it's completely unrelated to Hyphen Smashing. It involves jump cancelling, so its name should reflect that. It doesn't really seem like it needs a specific unique name, either. JC Reverse Usmash describes it perfectly fine, using terms we already know. A standardized shorthand for "Reverse" in tech names would be good. And yeah, hyphen smash is as dumb a name as ever.

Ulevo · Apr 30, 2008

Aside from the fact that I personally think Hyphen Smash is just JC Up Smash but with more momentum due to BRAWLS NEW PHYSICS, and not something significant, do we really need to go all happy day because you can turn around while running and use this? Or add "Reverse" to this just so it's a "New" technique? Congrats, you've figured out how to turn and attack at the same time.

This isn't anything personal, but this really isn't something worth mentioning. I could have assumed this was possible without even testing, much like I could assume that you can Jump and Air Dodge out of shield, simply because you can Up Smash out of a Shield. Kinda redundant.

Doval · Apr 30, 2008

Upon my suggestion, the name of the technique has been changed to "Reverse Jump-Canceled Up Smash" in the New Comprehensive Guide to ATs.

Ulevo said:
Aside from the fact that I personally think Hyphen Smash is just JC Up Smash but with more momentum due to BRAWLS NEW PHYSICS, and not something significant, do we really need to go all happy day because you can turn around while running and use this?

Hyphen Smashing isn't a JC Up Smash. It's an Up Smash, without any JC, out of a run. It has the same momentum as JC Up Smashing, the main difference is that you need to JC to Up Smash out of your shield.

I don't know why it's an AT or even has a name, considering it's a fundamental game mechanic, just like being allowed to jump out of your shield is.

Taymond said:
Hyphen Smashing uses running momentum, "smash boosting" or whatever we're calling it this week uses initial dash momentum, and JC Usmash uses uh.. probably the same run-momentum as hyphen smashing (we need a new name for this, seriously)? I'm not in a position to test right now, so I apologize if I'm wrong.

It uses the Dash Attack's initial momentum, not the initial dash's momentum.

Taymond · Apr 30, 2008

Gah! *flushes*

Ya got me. My bad, thanks for the correction. I misspoke.

In regard to the AT Compilation thread, I think that thing might be soon-replaced. Jewdo's far more dedicated to regular updates, and his AT Compilation thread is pretty encompassing at the moment, if lacking a readable format. In another week or so, it'll probably outshine the current sticky by far, and be much better maintained.

In any event, good call on having the name changed away from Hyphen Smash. We need to steer away from that name, as far as I'm concerned.

ShortFuse · May 2, 2008

You can say I "discovered" it, I don't really care. I learned it's a jump-cancel because if you disable tap jump, you have to press X/Y to do it, or it won't work.

Basically, I input it like this (while running left)

Holding Left, Downright Diagonal, While Sliding Up, I press X and a ms after press (or hold) A

I don't care what you call it so don't think because I figured it out that I will be against changing the name or w/e. I called it a Reverse Hyphen Smash because the "Hyphen Smash" (as pointless as it is) was on the list of the Advanced Techniques. It's essentially the same but Reversed, so I put reverse. I think a better same is Jump Cancelled Reverse UpSmash, but that's a mouthful unless you want to call it a JCrush (Jump-Cancelled Reverse Up Smash Hit).

And it's not really a redundancy of Hyphen Smash, because for everyone who plays with tap jump off, it's a special input to get it working.
And yeah, I use it as an Ike player. The back of his uSmash has good range and it's effective for running to an edge into a backwards upSmash since the sword will go past the edge.

Taymond · May 2, 2008

The reason we don't want to call it a Reverse Hyphen Smash, primarily, is because it's not a Reversed Hyphen Smash, not just because we don't like the name Hyphen Smash (though that's a **** good reason, too).

The Hyphen Smash is simply a Brawl game mechanic, you can Usmash out of a dash. No Jump Canceling necessary. This requires Jump Canceling, so clearly it's not a Hyphen Smash, in any form. Just because both involve an Usmash does not necessarily make them related. They are, in fact, unrelated.

JC Reverse Usmash isn't too much of a mouthful, particularly if we develop a standardized shorthand for reverse, if one I don't know about doesn't already exist.

Oh, and just as a final note, I know you're not trying to push Hyphen Smash, I just wanted you to be clear on why it's not a good name.

pockyD · May 2, 2008

yeah this is much more related to "RAR" (also a very stupid name) than to "hyphen smash" (like everyone said, a stupid name)

ShortFuse · May 2, 2008

It's my understanding that "Hyphen Smash" comes from Melee. I could be wrong. If somebody made up the name just for Brawl, then that's completely stupid and that name should be completely removed. It's a simpling running and doing an Up Smash.

The whole reverse with a jump cancel thing I figured out is a completely different thing since (with tap jump off) you need to press X/Y with a few ms of pressing/holding A (or C-Stick with or without Z).

Yeah, if you want a "fancy" name, JCrush (Jump Cancelled Reverse Up Smash Hit) sounds okay, I guess. If a move becomes heavily used, it tends to turn into a verb (short-hopped, shuffled, chain grabbing) like "Ike JCrushed Fox for the KO!"

But fancy names aren't my thing. I just think reverse upSmash.

NO WAIT!!! WE SHOULD CALL IT THE SHORTFUSE UPSMASH!!!!1111~1one!11!!n00bness!!!!

Crizthakidd · May 2, 2008

... i wounder what u can do with a reversed upsmash that you coudlnt before lol stop the momentum?

btw TC epic sig

Pi · May 4, 2008

I believe the reason 'hyphen-smash' was created is because 'hyphen' = 'dash' as in '-', so it's a 'dash smash' sept with a synonym instead...

Taymond · May 4, 2008

That's what my understanding was, too, knihT. Some "clever" kid came up with that.

Reverse Hyphen-smash ? Is that the right name?

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