Lucario's Worst Opponent Or Opponents

BlazE NY · Apr 27, 2008

Hello, Everyone

I need alittle help, I would like to know whos Lucario's worst Opponent or Opponents so I can practice fighting aganst them,

I know it depends on the player but I'm sure theres a character that has the most advantages over Lucario

Is there any...?

Thanks

Nodrak · Apr 27, 2008

A lot of people seemed to have trouble fighting wolf. Personally I have issues with diddy.... ****ing monkey.
I just leave CPU's on random, lets me play against everyone.

Greenpoe · Apr 27, 2008

G&W...but then again...G&W can ruin most of the cast.

Darkest · Apr 27, 2008

Samus and TL..**** projectile camping >.<

dguy6789 · Apr 27, 2008

None of the above mentioned characters are specifically good vs Lucario, people need to just learn how to fight vs those characters.

Fighting vs a character that owns Lucario won't make your Lucario overall better by that much. It will just make your Lucario better vs that character specifically. If you want to improve, find a bunch of different people who play all the different characters in the game and play against them all so that you obtain an understanding for how to play against everybody. It helps if they don't suck.

I would say Snake is one of the few characters that overall has an advantage versus Lucario. He is heavy so he is hard to kill. He is powerful, so he kills early on, which negates the advantage Lucario gains from being at a high % since he won't stay at a high % as long vs Snake as he would vs everybody else.

Tennisruler · Apr 27, 2008

When I practice on 10 stock no item lv9 fd against lucas, that little punk manages to, on average, take more lives from me than he should. It could be that I just have to get his timing on moves down.
The funny thing is that when I play against lucario a lot of times it just gets neck and neck. It's annoying to try to remember the patterns/tactics of the character you play with when you play a completely different style. However, when I play 20 stock matches against lucario, I feel like I understand my own weaknesses better and I seem to play better.

Pentaoku · Apr 27, 2008

I think Lucario does pretty much a decent on par job against every character in the game except for Snake, Ness and maybe Game & Watch.

Snake because of low % kills, insane camping, broken priority, etc...

Ness because forward air is pretty high in the priority range, and it's hard to do much against forward air from my knowledge. If I'm wrong, correct me please. PSI Magnet makes Aura Sphere a worry to use, but not impossible. It just deducts from the possibilities of what you could do in other situations. He can also kill at pretty low percents.

Game & Watch has oil panic, which if you're not careful, can kill you at really low percents with baby aura sphere'd oil. His knockback is just plain mean too.

Lucas might be a bad match up too, since that up smash strikes fear into a Lucario's down air.

Milln · Apr 27, 2008

dguy6789 said:
I would say Snake is one of the few characters that overall has an advantage versus Lucario. He is heavy so he is hard to kill. He is powerful, so he kills early on, which negates the advantage Lucario gains from being at a high % since he won't stay at a high % as long vs Snake as he would vs everybody else.

As much as I hate to, I agree. Snake is ridiculous. Super heavy so he's hard to KO. A Lucario almost has to gimp(GIMP THE SUPER ARMOR FRAMES) him unless you're at 70 or so. And if you're at that percentage, it's an extreme health hazard because like... everything Snake does KO's. =\ I forsee large problems against Snakes in the future.

JJ259 · Apr 27, 2008

The character that I play most against in 1v1s is snake (mainly because my one friend who likes 1v1s plays snake) and I have a few good tips on beating him.

1) Keep snake in air...for the love of god keep him in the air. On the ground, snakes neutral A combo and his over tilt come out so quickly and have such good damage that you'll find yourself in the death range very, very quickly. In the air, by constantly keeping pressure on him through the use of fairs and nairs, you'll usually be able to keep them off balance.

2) At higher %'s (like 50ish+) bair hits through the super armor that snake has and is a very, very good way of KOing him (especially if he uses it late). I would definitely recommend learning how to efficiently and effectively use RARing and get used to chasing him off the stage facing backwards.

Darkest · Apr 27, 2008

Infi-tan said:
As much as I hate to, I agree. Snake is ridiculous. Super heavy so he's hard to KO. A Lucario almost has to gimp(GIMP THE SUPER ARMOR FRAMES) him unless you're at 70 or so. And if you're at that percentage, it's an extreme health hazard because like... everything Snake does KO's. =\ I forsee large problems against Snakes in the future.

Really..I find snakes to be one of the easier matches. I usually do that force palm CG til like 60-70. And Fair --> Dair or Fair ---> AS works wonders for me.

This tournament I went to recently I took a snake from 20% to like 130% in a single combo/juggle

PSYCHE · Apr 27, 2008

I have aproblem with Olimar. I know, i know, you can dt while there is a pikmin on you... I just have a really hard time approching him. His smashes and forward b make it really hard.

Havent played a really good Snake yet, but i did hear that you can FP chain grab him to 90%.

dguy6789 · Apr 27, 2008

I am by no means saying Lucario can't beat Snakes, I crush them myself. I am speaking on a character per character matchup, Snake holds the advantage.

Darkest · Apr 27, 2008

I still think samus is Lucarios worst matchup....and yes you can Force palm CG snake to 100%

Nodrak · Apr 27, 2008

Samus isn't that hard to beat =S
Once you're a bit higher in damage, aura sphere will pass through most energy balls. Green missiles are ridiculously easy to avoid, homing missiles i usually just DT. Once you get in close, ftilt and use quick attacks, not powerful ones.

I have to agree with Tennisruler though, lucas is probably better on a character to character basis.

Browny · Apr 28, 2008

Darkest said:
I still think samus is Lucarios worst matchup....and yes you can Force palm CG snake to 100%

ok this is getting ridiculous.

first it was 80%, and now in the space of 2 posts its jumped to 100%

i have NEVER managed to CG snake, or any other character for that matter past 50%. even if you finish the FP chain grab with the usual grab + pummel + dthrow fair nair there is no way that is going to get snake up to even 80%. please be realistic.

on the 5th force palm grab the kncoback sends snake far enough such that he can mid-air jump again before he hits the ground, you will not get past 50% against a human player, unless they simply dont even try to move out of the grab.

that said, Olimar has to be one of the worst. i love it when olimar mainers try to defend how incredibly cheap he is by saying, just kill the pikmin! when the little ****s dont die to anything less than a full charged aura sphere. attacking him from the ground is **** since all his smashes and grab has enormous range, hes a lot weaker in the air though, but not from above. my #1 rule when against olimar, stay the hell away from the immediate area above him, since his upsmash will kill at like 100%, and it comes out faster than you can blink. keep him in the air and juggle as much as possible, dont let him land and commence the spam.

NESSBOUNDER · Apr 28, 2008

Why does everyone continue to ignore Lucario's chain grab on Snake?

Seriously, it works better on Snake than any other character. That's an easy 90% combo at the start of a match or stock each time. And even when you're above 50 you can get him to at least 60% before he can escape it.

JJ259 · Apr 28, 2008

I agree, honestly snake isn't nearly as hard for me as some other characters. I would say that I have the biggest problems against olimar or maybe a really good toon link.

Browny · Apr 28, 2008

please, someone show me footage of a 60% or higher chain grab combo on ANYONE. i dont care if its snake, bowser fox. whatever. dont get me wrong, i love lucarios CG and i use it all the time, but i have never got past 50%.

NESSBOUNDER · Apr 28, 2008

djbrowny said:
please, someone show me footage of a 60% or higher chain grab combo on ANYONE. i dont care if its snake, bowser fox. whatever. dont get me wrong, i love lucarios CG and i use it all the time, but i have never got past 50%.

I have a replay. But I can't upload the video. I've tested it extensively though. It's only on a CPU opponent, but it works on a human opponent in theory as well.

In order to hit 90%, you must do a running grab when Snake is approaching the 70% mark. From there, you do your pummel a few times and then down-throw. That's another 14% or so. From there, you aerial chase with Fair, which is almost unavoidable for Snake because of his air reaction time and poor options in the air. Even if he air dodges, you will almost undoutbtedly get at least one more Fair in, which brings the final damage count up to around 90%.

Technically, the chain grab on Snake goes up to 80%, but the tech chase is pretty much inescapable for him if done correctly, so it should count towards a combo.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Apr 28, 2008

Wolf anyone? Aura Spheres are reflected by Reflector, and Wolf can easily manhandle Lucario in close combat. Heck, Wolf's smash attacks can easily stop Lucario in its tracks. Lucario's smash attacks have a longer lag time, leaving it open for Wolf to do a set of weak attacks to stop it.

Aerial game-wise, Wolf can only get one good aerial attack in, but the f-air can mean Lucario's doom if its damage gets too high.

Overall, even if Lucario's aura grows as its damage rises, it won't be getting much progress in if it's fighting an aggressive Wolf.

Browny · Apr 28, 2008

wolf has a bad recovery that is extremely easy to gimp with the extreme edgehog. i fought a pretty good wolf user recently and it went down to the wire, but he never got past 120% while i was surviving on about 150% every stock. it really was too easy once he was off the stage. just guard the edge and prepare to dsmash or whatever if he uses his side b, and if he drops below the point at which his side b will no longer make it back to the stage, you can stop his up-b without taking any risks. just stay near the middle of the stage such that his dsmash wont be killing until at least 120%, and in the air since lucarios aerials **** all over wolfs. i dont find him that hard of a matchup, unlike fox and falco which have thier amazing dash - upsmash which can kill quite early, wolfs is harder to hit with.

NESSBOUNDER said:
It's only on a CPU opponent, but it works on a human opponent in theory as well.

believe me, it doesnt. the chain grab works the longest against the space animals, i can generally get them to 45% before the dthrow starts. but with my brother mashing every button he can as snake, he always escapes around the same %, so hes typically on about 38% before the dthrow starts to finish the combo at around 60% pretty much every time.

this is something we are going to have to remember pretty well. i know the % range for the usual suspects for the FP chain grab but its going to take a long while until i remember the % at which to begin the dthrow for the rest of the cast lol.

Pentaoku · Apr 28, 2008

Olimar doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Double Team whenever he throws a Pikmin onto you is just really good, especially at higher percents where it kills. On the ground, Lucario's at a disadvantage if you give him too much space, but Lucario seems to have a pretty decent aerial game against Olimar. IIRC, his multi-hitting attacks will beat the Pikmin out, and Olimar is insanely easy to gimp. Aura Sphere makes recovering for Olimar harder too. If he sees an AS coming right at him, he can either throw a Pikmin at it, probably killing the Pikmin, and risk not being able to reach the stage, or air dodge, and still risk not being able to reach the stage, and all the while, you have enough time to extremespeed to the edge. Though for this to work, I guess they'd have to be kinda low and far off from the ledge.

Nodrak · Apr 28, 2008

NESSBOUNDER said:
I've tested it extensively though. It's only on a CPU opponent, but it works on a human opponent in theory as well.

If a level 9 CPU can't escape it (given a few tries so the CPU can try DI, shield, dodge, ect), no human will ever be able to. Their timing is just too perfect

Azuro · Apr 28, 2008

I don't even get how you get past 60% on Lucario's CG against Snake. I've tried multiple times, and he flies too far away to grab without them airdodging or using DI.

Tallen · Apr 28, 2008

being a more defense-oriented player I find Capt. Falcon to be a hard match, unless he tries to falcon PAUNCH me because then it's easy to double-team XD
surprisingly with the exception of early kills I don't have a hard time against Snake users (or maybe my buddy is terrible with him XD), his moves are fairly predictable save a few exceptions and you just need to pay attention to where he places his explosives, still maybe this is due to the fact that I play more defensive-oriented.
Samus is fairly easy to me: she has an incredibly SLOW dodge so sometimes i manage to fmash her right after she just dodged. her close combat moves have relatively small range so if you stay close it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Though, anyone has hints in Olimar?? He's tough XD

NESSBOUNDER · Apr 30, 2008

You guys are not doing the chain grab fast enough! I've tested it with a human opponent and a computer opponent, using DI and everything. You can chain grab Snake for much longer than any of the space animals because he's much heavier, meaning he doesn't get sent into the "falling back and spinning" animation as soon.

As long as he's in his "aa, you hit me" weak hit animation, he can't air dodge or jump before you have the ability to grab him with a fast running force palm.

Jeepy Sol · May 1, 2008

I think what may be screwing people up is that they are dashing between each force palm. At least with Snake, all you need to do is hold forward, going just a little bit further after each one. If you dash between force palms, you usually end up behind your opponent.

Sand-Trap · May 2, 2008

I am confused. Why are people even talking about how much they can CG a Snake when it's a computer player? It doesn't mean ****. You're not helping the other Lucario players by telling them useless, misguided information...you're just hurting them.

And man, there are a lot of egos around here, for real. "Oh I can CG a Snake for an easy 100%!" or "My Lucario is sooooo amazing!"...really? Like, really? =/

Greenpoe · May 2, 2008

Sand-Trap said:
I am confused. Why are people even talking about how much they can CG a Snake when it's a computer player? It doesn't mean ****. You're not helping the other Lucario players by telling them useless, misguided information...you're just hurting them.

And man, there are a lot of egos around here, for real. "Oh I can CG a Snake for an easy 100%!" or "My Lucario is sooooo amazing!"...really? Like, really? =/

Didn't you read all the posts, or did you just skip half the topic?

NESSBOUNDER said:
You guys are not doing the chain grab fast enough! I've tested it with a human opponent and a computer opponent, using DI and everything. You can chain grab Snake for much longer than any of the space animals because he's much heavier, meaning he doesn't get sent into the "falling back and spinning" animation as soon.

As long as he's in his "aa, you hit me" weak hit animation, he can't air dodge or jump before you have the ability to grab him with a fast running force palm.

Sand-Trap · May 3, 2008

Greenpoe said:
Didn't you read all the posts, or did you just skip half the topic?

I just tried it today on Snake, and he can get out of the CG. Like someone said earlier, please post a video showing a human opponent DI'ing away and still getting CG'ed past the fifth Force Palm.

Darkest · May 3, 2008

Sand-Trap said:
I just tried it today on Snake, and he can get out of the CG. Like someone said earlier, please post a video showing a human opponent DI'ing away and still getting CG'ed past the fifth Force Palm.

At what percent did Snake escape?

The only times someone gets out of my CG is either when i screw up, or its past 70/80%.

Tallen · May 3, 2008

i can only manage up to 50%...
I need a video of someone doing a 90% or I'll never believe it. Force palm grab is good but it's not INSANE like that.

Darkest · May 3, 2008

Tallen said:
i can only manage up to 50%...
I need a video of someone doing a 90% or I'll never believe it. Force palm grab is good but it's not INSANE like that.

after 55-60 i try to mix things up sith force palm jabs and throws.

Oh and AA-->ftilt is too good

Van Jones · May 4, 2008

Any tips on fighting Pit? Technically, he may not pose a real threat to Lucario, but I have been having trouble fighting him lately.

Pentaoku · May 4, 2008

thebadnewsbear06 said:
Any tips on fighting Pit? Technically, he may not pose a real threat to Lucario, but I have been having trouble fighting him lately.

Pit's annoyance lies in his arrows solely. Distanced fighting against Pit is bad. One for arrows, two for the easy chance he gets at reflecting Aura Spheres.

In close combat however, Lucario's tilts and smashes outrange Pit. In the air, he outranges him again. Properly space yourself to gain the advantage.

Also Pit's aerials are EXTREMELY easy to see coming. He almost always apts to back air you for a finisher, so you can decide to double team if you feel like it. Up air won't stop your down air, down air might not reach your up air, and just stay out of range for back and forward airs, as they both don't have very good range. Neutral air isn't that big of a deal.

Van Jones · May 4, 2008

Wow. Thanks Pentaoku. Really helpful and really quick. I'll give it a try and post my results.

Evan BlazE · May 4, 2008

I seem to have trouble with Mario, Olimar & sometimes Meta Knight,

Any tips on those 3?

Tallen · May 4, 2008

I also have trouble with Olimar, tough luck...
Meta Knight, despite having next-to none start-up lag, has some weak finishing moves. You can sometimes get to as much as 140% before he actually has a chance of launching you, meaning you can make full use of aura against him =D. Either way play defensively: pay attention to his specials and dodge/double team them and go for the kill in-between attacks. It's tough, still: MK is really annoying character to fight against =P

Browny · May 4, 2008

aura sphere MK non stop

theres absolutely nothing he can do about it. MK can be annoying, but when hes recieving approximately 20 aura sphere per minute, he has no idea what the word means

Darkest · May 4, 2008

djbrowny said:
aura sphere MK non stop

theres absolutely nothing he can do about it. MK can be annoying, but when hes recieving approximately 20 aura sphere per minute, he has no idea what the word means

The MK can just jump over them?

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