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Panda's Discovery! A new AT: Dash Pivot Cancel (BOTH VIDEOS UP!)

SamuraiPanda

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May 22, 2006
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Here is the first video that describes the AT and how to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZg0f8RTMOg

A character showcase video that shows off DPC with a variety of characters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNyJQLOBP1M


So, I made quite a few discoveries last night (as you can probably tell from the other 2 threads I made) but this one tops the cake. This AT is performed by dashing, then performing a pivot, but holding forward a little bit after the pivot. Its different for every character, but while you turn around and start moving forward, there is a window that you can cancel the pivot into a something (I usually do it with forward smash or down smash, although it also works to some extent with tilts). Here is where the Dash Pivot Cancel gets interesting. With the right timing, after pivoting and moving forward just a bit, do a forward smash in the opposite direction (its easiest to see with the Fsmash IMO), and your character will perform a slide while smashing!

The DPC is very easy to time correctly with Yoshi, so try this out with him first. As a recap: Dash to the right, hit the control stick to the left so your character pivots, hold the control stick left for a "second" (the timing is different per character), then hit the C-stick to the right and watch your character slide backwards while Fsmashing! (Of course, the directions can be reversed)

Nearly every character in the game can do this (the exceptions being G&W and possibly ZSS), but not every character can benefit from the slide, and some can't slide at all. For example, Mario and Luigi can't do this very well because of the small window of time to cancel, so its nearly worthless with them, whereas Wario's and Olimar's are worthless simply because of the properties of their smashes.

Interestingly enough, the DPC into the Fsmash will automatically stutter step with some characters (although they don't slide), which makes a stutter-stepped Fsmash very fast out of the dash. The characters who do this best are Sonic and Captain Falcon, both characters that could use a little help here and there ^_^

Now, many characters have a ton of use for this although a lot simply don't need it. Try a DPC to an Fsmash with DK to see his interesting little teleport (which looks really useful for him!). Some characters could use this to do an Fsmash out of a dash and not be very vulnerable, whereas others may just use this for mindgames.

I've tried this with every character in the game, and I think that 2 characters can use this very well. The second best character with this is, IMO, Metaknight (omg he's more broken!) as he can get some really nice distance with his Fsmash and Dsmash (the video shows it well). But the best character by FAR is Squirtle. He has a unique dash pivot, which makes his DPC incredible. Why is it incredible? Well, you know how Snake has a mortar slide that goes half of FD? Squirtle has one now, too. By doing Squirtle's DPC into his Fsmash, you'd think it sucks because he doesn't go very far. But if you DPC into his Fsmash with the right timing and hold it (after hitting the C-stick, quickly hold the Z button to charge it), he will slide half of FD while charging. Other characters can also benefit from holding their smashes to get an extra boost from the slide, but Squirtle's is just silly good.

Sometimes by accident, I get Squirtle to do a strange sliding grab that also takes him nearly half of FD (I did it in the video too), but I don't really have the time to figure out exactly how I did it. Also, in the second video, I accidentally did a Dsmash backwards while sliding, similar to the Fsmash, but, again, no time to recreate the phenomenon. Anyways, enjoy the new discovery, and see if there is anything else you guys can figure out!
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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I'm currently trying it out with Yoshi as you suggested, it's not too hard to get the timing for him. I'm going to test Metaknight's and Squirtle's to see how super-broken it is, haha. Thanks for the discovery, hopefully it'll prove to be very helpful.
 

SamuraiPanda

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1st video is up on Youtube. It might go down soon though and start working again later (like 1-2 hours later), which is what happened last time I uploaded a video of a new AT onto Youtube :/

Now I just have like 3 more vids to go. I'll do the second one for this AT next.
 

NoVaLombardia

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Sometimes by accident, I get Squirtle to do a strange sliding grab that also takes him nearly half of FD (I did it in the video too), but I don't really have the time to figure out exactly how I did it. Also, in the second video, I accidentally did a Dsmash backwards while sliding, similar to the Fsmash, but, again, no time to recreate the phenomenon. Anyways, enjoy the new discovery, and see if there is anything else you guys can figure out!


I think that's the pivot wave grab that someone posted about some time ago.
 

Morrigan

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I'll be trying this now

Who do you think is the worst/hardest character to do this with?
 

SamuraiPanda

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what a lovely little panda you are
Crap. I was hoping you wouldn't see the thread so I could pull this outta nowhere on you :/

Just do me a favor and don't learn how to do this with Metaknight. That thought scares me.

That's a running turnaround, not a pivot.
And of course Ankoku has to correct me >_<

I refer to this as a pivot because thats what the dojo called it. I'm quite aware that a pivot was something different in Melee, but I meant pivot in the Brawl sense ^_^
 

Twin Dreams

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This is a LOT like Hydro Planing. However, with Hydro Planing, I discovered that you can cancel Squirtle's turn-around momentum before you change directions. I've only ever tested it with U-smash and have gotten a sliding U-smash 3/4 the length of FD. (actually, longer, since I hit the end of the stage.)


Edit:


Ok, after watching your squirtle part. (vid loading slow)



PT trainers call....


Turn around animation -- Shell Shifting
Attacking while sliding out of animation -- Hydro Planing



People were only doing it after the turn around. As I mentioned, I discovered you can do it before the turn around. Maybe this applies to all characters?
 

RBNuke

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Um, am I correct in inferring that for most characters this move requires you to move within smash range of your enemy and then perform a pivot? 0_o
 

feardragon64

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Great find panda!

Btw, this has been somewhat discovered with squritle. The pervious term was called hydroplaning and shellshifting because people would use squirtle's up-smash(which basically just shoots jets of water) during the pivot animation. I'll send you a link to the video(p.s. the video in the link I'm providing will explain why you face a different direction when you come out of your shell with squirtle sometimes if you're interested =] around 2:24 is when he does the looongg slide acroos Final D)

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148902

Anyways, I don't have access to brawl for a while, so if someone could find out if you can jump from this(short hop preferably). For characters that depend on air attacks(marth, even squirtle's bair and fair somewhat), this could be a great way to approach with the increased speed from the pivot and the dash, while creating a fun mindgame/fakeout. Anyways, just a thought.

But awesome for finding it for multiple characters! I'll be sure to play with this on a few different characters to see how each character can abuse it =]

Edit: Sigh. My topic took too long to post(typing and sending). Seems like 20 other people have already linked you to hydroplaning, lol. Sorry =X
 

SamuraiPanda

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I just found out that you can do a sliding pivot grab with the right timing. It seems that a pivot grab out of the dash is possible by hitting the grab button and hitting the C-stick in the opposite direction at the same time. Using this, you can run towards your opponent and DPC a pivot grab towards them which will result in you grabbing them while sliding backwards. Its a running grab that probably can't be punished :D

Anyways, time to shower and go to work. I might try to update with a link to the new video before I go (which should be done soon), but if I don't then I'm sure it'll pop up in my Youtube account soon enough.

EDIT: Of course as soon as I post that the video goes up :D
 

Vegeta214

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This has basically been discovered by PT players yeah. BUT why others haven't used this for other characters is beyond me, so props to you for that Panda.

So how can I contribute..lets see...

You can do almost anything from this. you can short hop, jab, tilt if you let go of the control stick briefly while sliding, grab etc. Interestingly if you do a grab you do a standing grab even though you're sliding. (yay Meta Knight)

Dash pivot cancelled f-smash mindgamez with Snake own.
 

Vegeta214

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Remember guys you don't have to do anything after pivoting and holding the opposite direction on the control stick. You can simply use the slide as a spacing/ mindgame/ movement technique.

When it comes to Brawl physics - this is exactly like what I believe they called "Craq walking", where you dash, jump, then hold in the opposite direction on the control stick until after you land, which caused you to do a waveland. This is then obviously the Brawl counterpart to Melee wavedashing.
 

feardragon64

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For the sonic section of the new vid, I was just wondering, wouldn't it be amazingly awesome to go to a downsmash from it? I didn't see you do that in the video but with sonic's dash going into a ball, AND his down smash doing the same thing but with a greater effect, it's be great for fooling people. Dash at someone, do a quick pivot and then they won't be sure if you're about to do a normal dash attack or a down smash, one of which has next to no knock back, another which has quite a bit. I'll test that out when I get a chance to see how it looks. =]
 
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Oscular

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If you guys couldn't think of an application, I thought of one (hopefully it's a good one):

You remember in Melee where you would run up to someone, predict their roll behind you, and wavedash backwards? Well since wavedashing in Brawl is out, you could run up to them, and if they roll behind up, do the DPC and hit them. But I'm not sure if that's faster than just stopping and stutterstepping a smash or something, so don't hold me to it.

Oh and btw I love you for finding this out because this looks so good with Snake
 

Crizthakidd

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woa nice discovery panda. helps MK get in his fsmash and his already good downsmash. sonic, CF and yoshi players get the most out of this
 

Doval

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This is a great find, Panda. I just want to point out somethings:
1)When you start the turn-around, you need to hold that direction until the character completely stops; if you don't, your character will take longer to finish the turn-around and thus take longer to reach the point in the turn-around animation where you can attack (and if the direction isn't being held at the time the turn-around finishes, your character will go into its standing position.)
2) You can find how long your character's window of opportunity is simply by doing a turn-around and dashing the other way as you normally would, but hold down the shield button during the turn-around. When your character begins to shield, the window of opportunity ended. If you do it with Yoshi, you'll see that he runs quite a distance before shielding; the same distance you demonstrate in your video.
3) Though you can't shield during the window of opportunity, you CAN cancel the turn-around into your character's neutral/idle position, and then shield. Since holding down the shield button has no effect during the window of opportunity, you can leave the shield button pressed beforehand and simply let go of the analog stick to shield, if you so wish.

Also, though your video shows the character dashing towards the opponent, turning around, then smashing towards the opponent again, I find this very impractical. However, this could be very practical for running away from the opponent, then turning around with a counter attack.
 

Oathblivion

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Nice find... again. Is it just me, or does Lucas get all the cool stuff? Also, I'm not getting very good results with Lucario, which probably rules him out as being useful with this (even though I did get a glitchy-teleporting-dash attack). Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Either way, kudos to you Panda, -Oath
 

-Aether

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I'm not sure how helpful it's going to be with the average character, but with people like Squirtle or Yoshi, it certainly will be good.
 

Doval

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Nice find... again. Is it just me, or does Lucas get all the cool stuff? Also, I'm not getting very good results with Lucario, which probably rules him out as being useful with this (even though I did get a glitchy-teleporting-dash attack). Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Either way, kudos to you Panda, -Oath
Try B moves as well. Some B moves have weird momentum properties - for example, some days ago I noticed that if I dash, cancel the dash with shielding, and use Counter as soon as I can after dropping my shield, Ike will propel himself forward a short distance when he uses Counter. When testing the DPC, I found that the same holds true if you DPC into the Counter. Lucario's Doublt Team might do it as well.
 

Morrigan

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I laughed at the C.Falcon comment in the second video, I guess you're right lol

Are you making another video with the rest of the characters?
 
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