Introducing the new Whorenado.

iankobe · Apr 29, 2008

Back in melee, we've got the infamous move from Peach.

But now, behold of the brand new Whorenado that's even more outrageous, ridiculous and annoying than Peach's melee down smash. (IF spammed.)

Metaknight's B move. All you do is press the red button on your controller, and tilt the analog stick. Make sure you space well and not get hit after the attack!

Look at him go...

Discuss.

p.s. I dedicate this thread to Hugs.

Keitaro · Apr 29, 2008

I don't know, I think Pikachu's d-smash may be able to *****-it-up more.

Mikezor · Apr 29, 2008

Both are pretty ******** priority wise. I don't see many using Meta's b though which confuses me (being one of his most lame moves), so I make sure to use it as often as possible when I play him.

Dojo · Apr 29, 2008

Its an insane move. But smart players can beat it with ease. Most characters can knock him out of it leaving him with lag and a chance for punishment. 'Nuff said. Pce.

Vro · Apr 29, 2008

Smash DI mixed with air dodges helps.. just a little.. maybe.

Doval · Apr 29, 2008

Meta Knight's Mach Tornado isn't ANYTHING like Peach's Whorenado was. It's more like Luigi's Down B - little priority, but enough acceleration to catch you off-guard, and usable enough to be annoying.

Mach Tornado is easily beatable with any attack disjointed enough to get past the extremely thin layer of safety the tornado affords. He's also completely open from above, and because the tornado is so weak, it fails to stop many projectiles as well.

Finch · Apr 29, 2008

Where is this "little priority" coming from? I've tried a lot of disjointed attacks against it and it just clanks with them and keeps coming. the only way to beat it is to get above him, but that's exactly what he's going to keep you from doing. Plus if you jump a lot he can just upB spam instead and he still wins.

Also I'm pretty sure it should be called "gaynado"

Unusual_Rex · Apr 29, 2008

It is pretty gay, but whorenado just sounds better.

Koga · Apr 29, 2008

It makes up for his lack of procectiles, any non-exploding projectiles just kinda don't work on it. It gives him an almost perfect approach.

Doval · Apr 30, 2008

There are plenty of things that stop him. It's far from a perfect approach, in every sense; far from unbeatable, far from being deadly. He can barely follow it up with anything.

Whining about something as stupid as Mach Tornado is silly. There are far more annoying things in the game.

Koga · Apr 30, 2008

I know i said it was almost perfect. Snakes grenades, Link/TL bombs, and Zamus's paralyzers are the only projectiles that can knock him out tornado. a perfectly spaced counter or ftilt from Ike/marth are the only attacks that knock him out except from above.

Seems like a very solid move worthy of making him top tier to me. Much like fox's shine in melee, its not gamebraking or an auto win button, but it does afford him a lot of control over the match.

kyubikirby · Apr 30, 2008

Koga said:
I know i said it was almost perfect. Snakes grenades, Link/TL bombs, and Zamus's paralyzers are the only projectiles that can knock him out tornado. a perfectly spaced counter or ftilt from Ike/marth are the only attacks that knock him out except from above.

Seems like a very solid move worthy of making him top tier to me. Much like fox's shine in melee, its not gamebraking or an auto win button, but it does afford him a lot of control over the match.

Wolfs blaster also goes through it...

ChronoTrigga · Apr 30, 2008

You know what pisses me off? They turned Pikachu's down-a smash to the new real whorenado. They totally gimped Peach's.

I'm sad

iankobe · May 1, 2008

Another reason to love Pikachu.

Sonic The Hedgedawg · May 1, 2008

I agree with the common voice ont this thread, the tornado is a great move to throw in, but it's no melee peach downsmash. It's a lot more punishable than that was.

But I WILL say, some characters have crappy enough priority that they literrally are at the mercy of the tornado unless they get lucky.

iankobe · May 1, 2008

Ask Hugs about it.

He'll tell you the details.

boom-man97 · May 1, 2008

its really hard to beat with a heavy but a light or even a medium can just air dodge out and jump out of it. if you know what your doing its easy to beat but it ***** noobs

TheManaLord · May 1, 2008

That move is nothing like peaches dsmash.

Peaches melee dsmash not only does a lot of hits, it does a lot of damage and a lot of knockback. It will never be equaled.

salaboB · May 1, 2008

From the MK subforum, I bring you: Someone's list of which moves can punch through the tornado!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161939

Ahhh, research.

the great jonzales · May 1, 2008

nice one salaboB v. helpful... it definately doesnt beat melee's whorenado, but it is a good attack when used in the right places, i feel its an insane damage builder, and if you can keep it goin for long and be on the ground when it finishes u don't have too much punishable lag..

xS A M U R A Ix · May 1, 2008

It is pretty broke. Especially if you have someone stuck in the air with it, you can juggle them repeatedly with multiple tornadoes and even if they air dodge it gets them as they come out of the dodge. If you time the B press correctly, he won't have that annoying effect that pops them up a little, giving them a chance to get out, so if you employ that technique, you can really get your money's worth out of the move.

Basically instead of mashing B right away, pull into them and wait till the end of the non-lengthened tornado, then start mashing B. But not too fast. If you do it right, they'll stay stuck right in the middle of the tornado for the length of the move.

iankobe · May 1, 2008

Someone finally knows what they're talking about.

fkacyan · May 1, 2008

Peach's Dsmash in Melee had great priority, was easy to use repeatedly, had huge knockback, and did a lot of damage. Fully charged I've seen it do roughly 80% in one usage.

That said, a Meta Knight can certainly rack up the damage using the neutral B, but it's nothing like Peach's old Dsmash.

Whorenado, RIP.

-SQ3R- · May 1, 2008

This move is great when you're fighting against beginners for 3 reasons:
1. It has unbelievable priority
2. It maintains a sense of chaotic imbalance which non-skilled players are not used to dealing with
3. Shield ****

However, there are very effective ways to counter it. The first usually only works with weapon-based characters such as Marth, DeDeDe, Ike, etc... but a well timed smash will completely counter it. It may be difficult to time, but it has lasting effects on MetaKnight's Game plan, especially if it is just a B-spammer. Another way is slightly more difficult to master, and that is the proper timing of jumps/dodges. It's important to always stay unpredictable and never let your opponent(Meta Knight) be able to read you. Being a Meta Knight player myself, I have exposed many non-skilled players with this move and been destroyed merely because I used this move wayyyyyyyy too much when I started playing. It's important to use it mainly as a prevention of momentum, but can be a crutch that can be exploited if dealt with correctly.

Lovage 805 · May 2, 2008

thats why in socal call Blitz hurricane Katrina

wakka444 · May 3, 2008

Hmmm it's a great move, but it is sooo much more fun to do MK's crazy other stuff, tornado no fun, WoP(not literally) with spaced Nair off stage to a Rob is simply priceless, and near possible

That's off subject(like some others...) the tornado is good, but people will go out of their way to counter and punish it no matter how unlikely it seems, but it's the way we keep balance

FrostByte · May 3, 2008

Peach's Dsmash in Melee had great priority

Not like this one. Peach's Dsmash couldn't deflect projectiles. It can only be used on the ground and has a much smaller hitbox than this thing.

was easy to use repeatedly

Lol, any move is easy to use repeatedly. Peach's Dsmash can only be used in one place and she'd be stuck there until the animation was over.

had huge knockback

It sent you in the opposite direction for God's sake.

and did a lot of damage. Fully charged I've seen it do roughly 80% in one usage.

Who runs into a fully charged Dsmash AND Crouch cancels it?

That said, a Meta Knight can certainly rack up the damage using the neutral B, but it's nothing like Peach's old Dsmash.

Maybe if peach could Dsmash in the air and have the same mobility as machnado, I'd understand where the problem would be. Her Dsmash was the least of my problems anyway.

Chrono Centaur · May 3, 2008

Uhh, did anyone notice the insane amount of moves shown in the MK thread about breaking through the tornado? D:

So it doesn't have "unbelievable" priority, in fact, it's not that great

Rhyfelwyr · May 3, 2008

Check the list of moves that beat Metaknight's tornado again, I've updated it!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4286083#post4286083

xS A M U R A Ix said:
It is pretty broke. Especially if you have someone stuck in the air with it, you can juggle them repeatedly with multiple tornadoes and even if they air dodge it gets them as they come out of the dodge. If you time the B press correctly, he won't have that annoying effect that pops them up a little, giving them a chance to get out, so if you employ that technique, you can really get your money's worth out of the move.

Basically instead of mashing B right away, pull into them and wait till the end of the non-lengthened tornado, then start mashing B. But not too fast. If you do it right, they'll stay stuck right in the middle of the tornado for the length of the move.

Heh, my new tests show that juggling with the tornado will now be a risky venture for Metaknight.

Doval · May 3, 2008

FrostByte said:
Not like this one. Peach's Dsmash couldn't deflect projectiles. It can only be used on the ground and has a much smaller hitbox than this thing.

Mach Tornado doesn't deflect projectiles, it destroys them if possible. Something that Peach's down smash did do. And it did have insane priority due to the wide area it covered, and the stupidity it lead to when used on platforms.

Lol, any move is easy to use repeatedly. Peach's Dsmash can only be used in one place and she'd be stuck there until the animation was over.

Hi, this is Ike. My Forward Smash disagrees with you. (Also, Peach had little recovery after the d-smash, so you had to approach from above or be Marth.)

It sent you in the opposite direction for God's sake.

So? What does that have to do with anything? The knockback was significant regardless of the direction it sent you, and the fact that it sent you in the opposite direction had advantages. Besides, Mach Tornado hardly has any knockback "for God's sake."

Who runs into a fully charged Dsmash AND Crouch cancels it?

No one runs into charged D-smashes, but crouch cancels do happen on occasion, and the resulting damage was disgusting, no two ways about it. And even if they didn't, it was still a problem, because it severely gimped the safeness of crouch canceling when fighting her, whereas she could take full advantage of it, sit on her pretty little tush, take shuffled kick to the face and d-smash you.

Her Dsmash was the least of my problems anyway.

Of course; going by your sig you probably played Marth. Which baffles the mind, because Marth shouldn't have a hard time breaking through Meta Knight's Mach Tornado.

Seriously, what the heck. It's a good move, but it's not TEH ULTIMATE PRIORITIES SUPAR APPROACH, nor does it do massive damage or knockback. You don't see Meta Knights 3 stocking people just because they approach with Mach Tornado.

Dolphin-Safe · May 3, 2008

Anyone who gets hit by more than maybe 3 hits tops of Peach's d-smash in Melee has bad reflexes. It's not hard to DI up in response to seeing you're getting hit by it even if you were holding down at the time. If you get hit by the whole thing by jumping up through a platform that's just being dumb too.

Doval · May 3, 2008

Anyone who gets hit by more than maybe 3 hits tops of Peach's d-smash in Melee has bad reflexes.

Right, 'cuz accidents never happen, and it's totally impossible for you to have gotten hit when you were inputting a down smash, down tilt, or down B. That's a pretty strong generalization. 'Sides, if you're going to make such bold claims, the same can be said about Mach Tornado. "If you get juggled by it, you're clearly a scrub and you should learn how to avoid it. Anyone with good reflexes can see Mach Tornado coming."

The main point is that there is a very big difference between a damaging, good knockback, long stay-out time, wide-area Smash attack with little start-up and recovery time, and an annoying B move that can't be comboed into or out of, nor does it KO. It's safe, it's mobile, it's bothersome, but it'll never be on par with what Peach's Down Smash could do, and they shouldn't even be compared because they're two different things in the first place.

Dolphin-Safe · May 3, 2008

Doval said:
Right, 'cuz accidents never happen, and it's totally impossible for you to have gotten hit when you were inputting a down smash, down tilt, or down B. That's a pretty strong generalization.

Dolphin-Safe said:
It's not hard to DI up in response to seeing you're getting hit by it even if you were holding down at the time.

With the hitlag added in from hits 1-3 you have nearly half a second after the first hit makes contact to see yourself being hit and stop holding down and press up by the end of the 3rd hit's hitlag. Again, it doesn't matter what you're doing at the time.

I'm not saying anything at all about the mach tornado btw. I'm just saying people complain about how much damage Peach's down smash did if crouch cancelled when you shouldn't be holding down that long anyway and it's their fault if they do and aren't paying attention.

fkacyan · May 3, 2008

It sent you in the opposite direction for God's sake.

So if I'm at the left edge and you're to my right, it's completely useless, right?

I saw this and ignored the rest of your post.

FrostByte · May 3, 2008

My argument isn't that Mach tornado is godly. It's that Peach's Dsmash isn't all that, her turnip game and overall priority are more important things to watch out for.

Doval said:
Mach Tornado doesn't deflect projectiles, it destroys them if possible. Something that Peach's down smash did do. And it did have insane priority due to the wide area it covered, and the stupidity it lead to when used on platforms.

Guess so, though it's common knowledge to not be under peach on a platform unless you've got a sword or any other disjointed attack.

Hi, this is Ike. My Forward Smash disagrees with you. (Also, Peach had little recovery after the d-smash, so you had to approach from above or be Marth.)

I said nothing about being punished.

What does that have to do with anything? The knockback was significant regardless of the direction it sent you, and the fact that it sent you in the opposite direction had advantages. Besides, Mach Tornado hardly has any knockback "for God's sake."

It had knockback, but it hardly had any KO power unless used correctly (edgeguarding Sheik or whatever). "Huge knockback" is an overstatement when compared to other attacks in Melee.

No one runs into charged D-smashes, but crouch cancels do happen on occasion, and the resulting damage was disgusting, no two ways about it. And even if they didn't, it was still a problem, because it severely gimped the safeness of crouch canceling when fighting her, whereas she could take full advantage of it, sit on her pretty little tush, take shuffled kick to the face and d-smash you

And that's why most fastfallers don't approach peach with nairs save Falcon. Fox can approach with backdoor bairs and Falco can approach with lasers.

Approach Meta with anything and he can get you in a move 3x his size, meaning a good shield eater and shield stabber. You could lightshield Peach's Dsmash and be able to get out of it without getting stab'd.

Of course; going by your sig you probably played Marth. Which baffles the mind, because Marth shouldn't have a hard time breaking through Meta Knight's Mach Tornado.

I don't really play the Marth vs Meta matchup in brawl, but I do play it the other way round. Meta's noobspam moves are actually effective.

Seriously, what the heck. It's a good move, but it's not TEH ULTIMATE PRIORITIES SUPAR APPROACH, nor does it do massive damage or knockback. You don't see Meta Knights 3 stocking people just because they approach with Mach Tornado.

And you don't see Peaches 4 stocking people with Dsmash alone. It's more punishable than machnado, has a relativley small hitbox in comparison and is more easily avoidable due to the faster pace of Melee I guess.

Doval · May 3, 2008

It's that Peach's Dsmash isn't all that,

Right, and next you're going to tell me that Fox's up smash isn't all that, and Marth's f-smash isn't all that, and Ganon's f-air isn't all that. Just because there are ways to avoid it, which a skilled player should know, it doesn't mean it's not one hell of a move. If you applied that logic, there's nothing that's all that! Fox's d-air can be DI'd out of, so his d-air to shine to up-smash combos aren't all that.

The priority Snake's f-tilts have and his mortar dash are worse than Mach Tornado. I don't see anyone *****ing about those.

FrostByte · May 3, 2008

Thiocyanide said:
it's completely useless, right?

When did I say that? All I was trying to get across was that it didn't have "Huge Knockback"

Fox's Upsmash *is* all that by the way, It's a KO move. Something Peach's Dsmash is not.

Doval · May 3, 2008

A move doesn't have to be a KO move to be "all that." E.g. Fox's shine, Falco's SHL.

TriforceCore · May 3, 2008

But It does just give you a hard time in general and hard to DI out of once in

fkacyan · May 3, 2008

FrostByte said:
When did I say that? All I was trying to get across was that it didn't have "Huge Knockback"

Fox's Upsmash *is* all that by the way, It's a KO move. Something Peach's Dsmash is not.

If it was a KO move I'd say it was a KO move. As its not, but can still send you a good distance, it has huge knockback. It isn't hard to understand.

And hitting somebody in a different direction has... No effect on knockback? Just means you have to hit them differently.

Introducing the new Whorenado.

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