Nodrak
Smash Ace
Ok so I got bored. Instead of making a matchup thread, I went around to other character boards and looked at theirs to see what other characters fear or don't so much fear about Lucario. What kind of strategies used specifically against Lucario.
I've noticed a few things that most boards had in common:
Most others don't yet understand Lucario's hitboxes. This will change as they play more Lucario players but for now, it's something to take advantage of.
Most of the heavier characters (ike, bowser, dk ect) seem to want to KO Lucario early on. They get worried once Lucario is over 100% since his damage and knockback start to pose more of a threat.
This seemed rather important actually. Almost all characters fear Lucario's aerials!! Just about every post I read was telling characters to try ground based attacks due to Lucario's range, disjointed hitboxes and speed in the air.
Most of us already know it. Lucario's smashes are slow and extremely punishable, sadly, all of our opponents know this too.
Also, most Lucario's know to space their attacks, (some like force palm wont even work at close range) but characters with longer range (Olimar, link, marth ect) will try to keep even further back. Faster characters (like Marth) or ones with lower range seem to want to be more aggressive to force us back.
Finally the only other non-character spicific point I noted was that apparently, Lucario players tend to roll behind their opponent or roll a lot in general. Other characters seem to be on the alert for Lucario players rolling behind them.
Addon: A bunch of people see Lucario as the anti-combo character.
Now for specifics, but note that Lucario isn't the first posted on many unfinished matchup threads and some exclude him entirely. Most other characters don't seem to think of him as a big threat, we godda change this.
Bowser:
-Uses flamebreath(neutralB) to stop a running approach
-Ftilt may stop a fully charged Aura Spheres(neutralB), will certainly stop uncharged ones
-They don't seem too confident on a whole with their character, keep it that way with good spacing and out-ranging, since they'll be focusing on their spacing the whole time
-Bowsers are adapting to a faster style of play, don't take them lightly
-Watch out for shield>upB
Captain Falcon:
-They aren't a fan of Lucario's range and disjointed hitboxes
-Will try to punish slow smashes and rolls with raptor boost (sideB)
-Are worried that we'll Double Team their attacks since they suffer from the same startup lag we do on their attacks
-Enjoy the fact that we suffer from the same startup lag they do
-His ftilt will outrange us, watch out
-They may try to stick to 'silent' moves, so that we have a harder time double teaming them. (falcon punch, fsmash, falcon kick ect are his 'loud' moves) Taking away the audio cues is smart I must admit
-Do NOT under any circumstance fall to the ground after an upB. ALWAYS land on the ground. Falling, unable to attack or dodge will lead to them falcon punching you
-They think we're easy to gimp, prove them wrong guys!
-They seem to get extremely frustrated when we spam dair and aura sphere... keep it up, makes them angry, lose their cool and make stupid mistakes =P (The part they get most frustrated about, is that they cant seem to do anything about it)
-Don't let him bair you when you're hanging on the edge!
DeDeDe:
-Lucario cannot be infinitely grabbed but can be chaingrabbed
-They focus on DI.
-Watch out for the swallow-suicide
-Force palm and double team is something that they fear
-Lucario's spacing puts us right in DeDeDe's best attack range.
Diddy:
-Banana's banana's banana's... I swear, every second post was on banana's.
-One of them suggests to use Diddy's sideB (face hug) to rack up damage on Lucario before trying other attacks.
-Diddy can also use his sideB as a horizontal recovery
-Diddy's sideB will also grab in the air, as you fall they can jump off and recober
-Watch out for Diddy's spike and upB spike
-Diddy's dash attack can be combo'd out of easily (dash attack > umash for example)
-Their aerials can have slow startup, try to keep to the skies.
-Ugh, every second post is STILL about bananas
-Just be careful in this matchup, use your projectiles, when Diddy doesn't spam bananas he'll spam the A button.
DK:
-Aura spheres are countered by ftilt and utilt.
-They only have a few quick attacks, so they'll abuse bair if you try to make it an aerial battle.
-They may try Uthrowing you to get you in the habit of dair-ing just be careful of their utilt/smash
-DK doesn't like going off the edge for anything but a fair spike, he is gimped too easily by a foot/toad/head stool jump
-Watch out for grounded upB's
-If DK uses his slower attacks, double team they don't like it
-A few of them worry about our % as much as we do. They're on the lookout
-BAS will be cancled by just about anything DK has
-Look out at around 100%, DK will try to kill you as you reach that point
Falco:
-Watch out for their laserlock and laser pressure in general.
-Watch for sideB recovery spike.
-They know to avoid the chainthrow
-Lucario's uair > Falco's dair
-Definatly want us dead once we reach 100%ish
-They'll feed on predictable aura spheres... starve'm
-They really dont like being under us... Wonder why? =P
Fox:
-Wants to stay ground based to use their superior speed over lucario.
-They're on the look out for ftilt > utilt which we use to get them in the air, they'll try to keep you grounded with their dair and use nair for damage.
-They fear the 100% mark on Lucario, they know they'll die easily when we're 100%+. So be prepared for an aggressive fox before 100% and a defensive one after 100%
-They worry about our aerial game more then our ground game
-They know to look out for AAFP and chaingrabs
-Punish Fox's sideb with Aura sphere
Game and Watch:
-They don't like dthrow > dsmash against us since it can easily be dodged by Lucario.
-May use the pan and food (neutralB) to destroy our spheres and possibly to edgegaurd.
-Another tactic is to distract us with the pan(neutralB) then absorb a sphere(neutralB) with their bucket.
-WATCH OUT FOR THE BUCKET! It can absorb things that don't even hit the bucket (i.e. the aura sphere flies above or behind G&W, he'll still absorb it)
-Will KO at 40% with uncharged aura spheres(neutralB)
-Will KO at any percent with even one Force Palm Flame(sideB) or semi-charged sphere(neutralB)
-Look out for G&W's bair, the turtle. It's one attack that puts their aerial game above ours. It has extremely high priority, has multiple hits and you can't shield it.
-His ground game has priority over yours, they know that.
-his uair will push us up, rendering our dair useless BUT, eventually we will fall to the point where we hit with our dair.
-Like Toon Link, and us (Lucario) they enjoy their Dair, are like to mindgame out of it (their dair's fastfall actually slowfalls them) It also spikes.
-His dtilt can cancel our AS
-they all seem very strong-willed on the subject that G&W has a huge advantage over Lucario
Ganondorf:
-They rely on punishing smash start-up and cool-down lag from our smashes or bad rolls.
-Off the edge, be careful of his sideb! They don't seem to have a problem dieing if they take you with them, and remember, it's a grab, not doubleteam-able
-Watch out for a grounded sideB -> dtilt -> upB combo, it works on about all characters so expect it on Lucario too. Get ready to DI, tech/roll away or attack back.
-They dont like our projectile
-Expect an offensive Ganon
-They'll try to stay close, killing our spacing
-They'll try to prevent us charging our Aura Sphere(NeutralB)
-Ganon's dash attack will cancel any sphere until we're at 117%
-They may try to goad us into becoming more offensive then we should, keep your cool!
From a topic titled: Comps have ways of rendering some of Ganon's moves null. Players might learn these.
Ice Climbers:
-According to one of them, our roll poses a threat.
-They like their chaingrabs, so space accordingly.
-They like to desync, a common tactic of them so that they have one attack finishing while another attack is just starting.
-Near 40% or higher, stay away from the edge against ice climbers because they can Fthrow with Popo and spike you with Nana.
Ike:
-Will fight for his friends.
-Is also afraid of Lucario at 100% or over, so they'll try to kill you before you reach that point. Again watch for the aggressive 0-100% and defensive 100%+.
-They basically focus on spacing, and trying to get within Lucario's range.
-Are more accustomed to developing strategies around campers
Jigglypuf:
-Is more afraid at 50% or above.
-Will try uair, dair, sideb's all in the air to show their aerial abilities. Some of lucario's best game is in the air though so lets show them who rules the skies =P
-They like their rollout as a killer if you aren't near an edge but personally I've seen it used to recover more so then as a ground based attack.
-They seem to want to focus on gimping recovery since jigglypuf seems to be build for that. (Though there are some that will avoid this)
Kirby:
-They are discouraging use of the ground hammer and stone against anyone.
-Kirby's Aura sphere (with the Lucario hat) is fixed, meaning it's damage/knockback wont increase or decrease with Kirby's damage or stock.
-Kirby's Aura sphere will be equivalent to about ours when we're at 70-85% so expect to be sucked up early on in the game when our sphere can't match Kirby's.
-If you're sucked up by kirby, spam dair until you're released.
Link:
-Link's spacing is almost identical to ours so he'll be more prone to using projectiles to gain an edge.
-Link's uair and especially dair has ridiculous priority over Lucario.
-May try to combo us due to our floaty-ness
-They like hit and run strategies, punish, then roll or jump away for projectile use.
Lucas:
-Likes their Dair to gimp recovery.
-They will absorb spheres.
-PK fire can be used to counter Lucario's spacing and spheres.
Luigi:
-Like in melee, Luigi has ridiculously low friction, it can seriously gimp him but Luigi users are working on making it more useful, even if just for escapes.
-Watch out for jab > upB.
-This one is just my note. I'm certain that a good Luigi can gain more height and distance recovering then any other character (even pit).
-For those who don't know, luigi's downB, sideB and upB is a recovery. I personally loved my opponent thinking I was dead when I mained Luigi in melee just to come back. Believe me when I say the average user can gain good height with it, anyone who is good at mashing B can go from the floor to the top of the camera and probably more while still remembering Luigi's second jump, his upB and sideB for any horizontal movement.
-Watch for an A>A>upB from them. If it's anything like ours, the A>upB part can be shielded, spotdodged or attacked through.
Mario:
-Doesnt like the FLUDD. (downB)
-Nasty looking bair > uair > sh > bair > uair combo..
-His cape CAN hit Lucario, during flight or charging up, even Lucario's Extreme Speed (upB) will be turned around by it. If you know he's going to hit you on charge up, aim the wrong way.
-Very little info (not too many people maining him, or at least, not posting if they do)
Marth:
-Marth users seem to be very technical compared to other characters so far.
-They don't expect us to smash (and for good reason, our smashes are slow while marth is rather quick).
-They're weary of our large, lingering hitboxes; and with that said...
-Marth's fair (which they like to spam) is ranged longer then our fair; so are their tilts.
-They will want to DI back after a fair so that if we try to roll, we'll end up in front of them, not behind.
-Beware of their stupidly fast sideB (dancing blade) (which can eliminate all of their decay when used right). They'll want to punish or suprise attack with it.
-They see that we can combo very well when both at low %'s.
-They're on the lookout for edgegaurds and will activly try to edgegaurd us off the edge.
-Most characters will get defensive when we hit the 100% mark, Marth users seem to be a first in the sense that they'll counter by being more aggressive.
What a Marth user thinks of getting below Lucario...
Metaknight:
-Likes his edgegaurding techniques.
-Is confident on ground as well as air for most fights. Meaning they'll meet us wherever the fight ends up.
-I watched a video of a rival crew, apparently the best of the crew (in brawl at least) mains metaknight. All he did was get close and try for the upB kill. So watch out for the upB.
-They dont like projectiles... Lucario has learnt Aura Sphere!
-They'll try to attack us vertically, to take advantage of Lucario's floaty-ness.
-They're very ready to punish any of our slow attacks.
Ness:
-Prefers ground attacks on Lucario
-Can absorb spheres
-There's a Psi Magnet Cancel (downB) where Ness users can jump, smash, shield immediately after absorbing something, watch for this is you let off a poorly timed sphere.
-Afraid of us (well anyone actually) gimping there upB recovery.
-They're worried about their lack of range against Lucario
-They aren't afraid to edgehog or dair our recovery.
-Wont unnecessarily try to counter a uair or utilt juggle, they'll DI away and try a new approach
-PK fire to counter spheres.
-Yoyo used to punish our rolls
Peach:
-Ok I had a bunch to write here but it seems they're actually almost fighting over how to play against Lucario. They have no clear strategy around fighting Lucario, half say one thing half say the other so be prepared for anything.
Pikachu:
-Quick Attack Cancel (QAC): Basically when they quick attack into the ground, they can do anything the second they hit the ground: jumps, aerials, ect... Watch out for this.
-Some of the better Pika's like to space by SH > jolt(neutralB) > fast fall > rinse > repeat
-Some of the not so good Pika's will just spam Dsmash and Thunder. Dsmash can be DI'ed out of (hold up and just keep hitting left/right) and thunder is easily double teamed, air dodged or b-sticked out of.
-Quick Attack Lock (QAL): Basically if you don't tech, and fall flat on the ground Pikachu can repeatedly lock you to the ground with constant Quick Attacks much like Falco's laser lock but not much harder to pull off consistantly.
Olimar:
-They focus on spacing and ground attacks
-One mentioned that most of our combos start with a 'jab > jab > something' which can be countered by staying out of range
-They focus on spacing
-They may counter force palm with aerials but is discouraged from aerial fights in general
-All around they seem to want to try to gimp our recovery.
-They're generally discouraged from latching pikmin on us due to them giving us damage without knockback and because we can just double team them for a free, strong attack. (though they are wise to this and can predict it)
-They will throw pikmin however to block aura spheres (purple ones if they order them properly).
-They focus on spacing
-They like their dair spikes.
-They like shieldgrabs to punish us for being too close when we get in their range.
-They focus on spacing
Pit:
-Pit is broken. I don't mean he's strong, overpowered or anything, I mean that he has a million techniques that weren't discovered during bug testing. His glide canceling into a waveland for example. Seems that Pit users are in the process of learning and trying to master these techniques.
-Watch for fsmash and bair, their main killing attacks.
Pokemon Trainer:
-They know their pokemon. Squirtle is used to rack up damage, not to kill, they'll probably use squirtle early on but not as a killing pokemon.
Ivysaur likes bulletseed traps and nair, it has longer range so with proper spacing, it doesn't help our air game
-Ivysaur doesn't have much in the way of killing moves
R.O.B.:
-They will want to edgegaurd us because of our damage-less recovery.
-They expect our recovery to be predictable.. I'm guessing we should add our floaty-ness and air
-They have good fast projectiles which can counter ours.
-Their aerials may be slower, but have extremely high priority, can kill at relatively low percents and are disjointed. (nair is a favorite)
Samus:
-Samus' dair is probably one of the fastest, widest arced spikes in the game, they'll take advantage of it
-Watch missile spam, it's a good way to cancel our AS charge
-Energy balls is a good quick killing move for Samus
-Watch for zair (grab, tether in the air, it's a quick attack mainly used to stop an approach or combo)
-They're more prone to using non-fire attacks.
-Samus' bombs are timed, they wont explode 'on touch', they can still bomb-jump but the timing is different. You can run or jump through them without worry unless they've been sitting out for a bit.
Shiek:
-Will edgehog us (can vanish-hog, jumping off and using their upB to to get another hit in)
-Watch for upsmash, it's a **** good killing move, don't get too close with those dairs! Watch for them dash canceling into it.
-Sheik can combo f-tilt into itself
-Being below Sheik is a great place to be. She has no attacks that attack straight down, needles have been nerfed since melee and her dair has horrible landing lag
n/b/fair has no landing lag
-When keeping close with Sheik in the air, watch for Sheik's nair.
Snake:
-Will be looking for us to be able to predict attacks, expect unpredictability
-Instead of spot-dodge, they may focus more on shield due to their fast jab or shieldgrab
-May try to cancel our AASomething combo by jabbing back. This can be avoided by either timing the AASomething perfectly or holding down A until the last jab, then timing that correctly.
-Their Nikita (rocket launcher) can cancel our aura sphere AND keep going
-Will edgehog defensively
-Expect grenades used for spacing
-Prefers a ground battle, knows very well to avoid our dair
-Expect an aggressive first 0-100% and a defensive 100%+
-Knows to knock us to 50% to take away our grab combos
Sonic:
-Is worried about our range and spacing
-Probably wont be attacking from underneath or neutralB
-Will attempt the edgegaurd
-Will defiantly use his speed; dash > shield, punish missed smashes or double team
-Expect stuttersteps
-Will probably play more defensively due to their lack of killing attacks
-I guess this is different per person, but sonic players seem to like their theme of speed. Even if they play defensively expect a lot of quick attacks and shield pressure once they approach. Just space yourself accordingly and f-utilt to slow them down
Toon Link:
-They aren't too worried about our recovery
-They'll use their projectiles to out-range us and to cover up rushes.
-As predictbly as we use dair, they'll use dair
-Avoid laggy, punishable moves, ToonLink can cause serious damage (over 20%) with attacks.
-They worry once we hit 50% (they're rather floaty) expect defensive and more long range attacks at that point.
-Lucario may be floaty but he can be combo'd easily at lower percents, Toon Link can bair as fast as we fair so use range.
-Watch out for ToonLinks shield. Not L or R shield, the one he physically holds, it can block -Force Palm flames and Aura Spheres
-He may try to spike you, just airdodge it. Even if it means your death, otherwise you'll die anyway while he survives, at least this way he'll die too and you might survive.
-Catch projectiles when thrown, they don't expect it (at least the ones who play without items on)
Wario:
-Wario users like their air game, and will try to beat ours.
-They will use their speed to their advantage
-Watch out for the bike's super armor to get in close to Lucario and past Aura spheres
-He has Jigglypuf's maneuverability in the air
-They'll uair to kill but can be out ranged by our dair
-His fsmash also has super armor frames, but also bad ending lag
-They'll use their bike to recover, try to aim an Aura sphere or a good bair at them, not their bike.
Wolf:
-They may try killing our BAS or partly charged spheres with blaster shots (will go through ours at low-mid %'s)
-Watch out for the dair spike and bair
-Wolf's reflector has some invincibility frames, and very little ending lag, it can be used almost like a counter if he decided to attack out of it.
Yoshi:
-Yoshi users may try their infinite grab (grab > let you escape > grab again before you can do anything until you're off the edge > then fair spike) but Lucario is one of the characters that cant be chain grabbed this way, punish this
-Watch out for Yoshi dair'ing your recovery. It has a ton of hits, it's wide, and it can spike.
Zelda:
-Watch for Zelda's sideB's range and explosion radius (but can be very easily double teamed even when used nearby Zelda)
-Zelda's sideB may also be used to stop us from charging our aura spheres
-Dair is a fun lethal toy for them
-They'll use their faster attacks and priority to counter us on the ground trying to bypass our range.
-Their air game is strong against Lucario, to counter their air game, start your attack just before it should reach Zelda, the disjointed hitbox should hit before hers
-Know what Lucario's nair is? Good, you now know Zelda's. Anywhere you would use it, be prepared for Zelda to use it in return
-Zelda's uair will outrange our dair
Zero Suit Samus:
-They don't like staying under Lucario due to dair when they're in the air as well but if they're on the ground their whip punish our dair with it's superiour range
-They're the only ones so far that I've seen mention stage counterpicks (luigi's mansion)
-For all you guys out there, they may try to distract you with Zamus as eyecandy!
-Will space themselves further out then us due to the whip and stungun
-Be careful of the stungun, if they like to fully charge, it gives you just enough time to double team
I've noticed a few things that most boards had in common:
Most others don't yet understand Lucario's hitboxes. This will change as they play more Lucario players but for now, it's something to take advantage of.
Most of the heavier characters (ike, bowser, dk ect) seem to want to KO Lucario early on. They get worried once Lucario is over 100% since his damage and knockback start to pose more of a threat.
This seemed rather important actually. Almost all characters fear Lucario's aerials!! Just about every post I read was telling characters to try ground based attacks due to Lucario's range, disjointed hitboxes and speed in the air.
Most of us already know it. Lucario's smashes are slow and extremely punishable, sadly, all of our opponents know this too.
Also, most Lucario's know to space their attacks, (some like force palm wont even work at close range) but characters with longer range (Olimar, link, marth ect) will try to keep even further back. Faster characters (like Marth) or ones with lower range seem to want to be more aggressive to force us back.
Finally the only other non-character spicific point I noted was that apparently, Lucario players tend to roll behind their opponent or roll a lot in general. Other characters seem to be on the alert for Lucario players rolling behind them.
Addon: A bunch of people see Lucario as the anti-combo character.
Now for specifics, but note that Lucario isn't the first posted on many unfinished matchup threads and some exclude him entirely. Most other characters don't seem to think of him as a big threat, we godda change this.
Bowser:
-Uses flamebreath(neutralB) to stop a running approach
-Ftilt may stop a fully charged Aura Spheres(neutralB), will certainly stop uncharged ones
-They don't seem too confident on a whole with their character, keep it that way with good spacing and out-ranging, since they'll be focusing on their spacing the whole time
-Bowsers are adapting to a faster style of play, don't take them lightly
-Watch out for shield>upB
Captain Falcon:
-They aren't a fan of Lucario's range and disjointed hitboxes
-Will try to punish slow smashes and rolls with raptor boost (sideB)
-Are worried that we'll Double Team their attacks since they suffer from the same startup lag we do on their attacks
-Enjoy the fact that we suffer from the same startup lag they do
-His ftilt will outrange us, watch out
-They may try to stick to 'silent' moves, so that we have a harder time double teaming them. (falcon punch, fsmash, falcon kick ect are his 'loud' moves) Taking away the audio cues is smart I must admit
-Do NOT under any circumstance fall to the ground after an upB. ALWAYS land on the ground. Falling, unable to attack or dodge will lead to them falcon punching you
-They think we're easy to gimp, prove them wrong guys!
-They seem to get extremely frustrated when we spam dair and aura sphere... keep it up, makes them angry, lose their cool and make stupid mistakes =P (The part they get most frustrated about, is that they cant seem to do anything about it)
-Don't let him bair you when you're hanging on the edge!
DeDeDe:
-Lucario cannot be infinitely grabbed but can be chaingrabbed
-They focus on DI.
-Watch out for the swallow-suicide
-Force palm and double team is something that they fear
-Lucario's spacing puts us right in DeDeDe's best attack range.
Diddy:
-Banana's banana's banana's... I swear, every second post was on banana's.
-One of them suggests to use Diddy's sideB (face hug) to rack up damage on Lucario before trying other attacks.
-Diddy can also use his sideB as a horizontal recovery
-Diddy's sideB will also grab in the air, as you fall they can jump off and recober
-Watch out for Diddy's spike and upB spike
-Diddy's dash attack can be combo'd out of easily (dash attack > umash for example)
-Their aerials can have slow startup, try to keep to the skies.
-Ugh, every second post is STILL about bananas
-Just be careful in this matchup, use your projectiles, when Diddy doesn't spam bananas he'll spam the A button.
DK:
-Aura spheres are countered by ftilt and utilt.
-They only have a few quick attacks, so they'll abuse bair if you try to make it an aerial battle.
-They may try Uthrowing you to get you in the habit of dair-ing just be careful of their utilt/smash
-DK doesn't like going off the edge for anything but a fair spike, he is gimped too easily by a foot/toad/head stool jump
-Watch out for grounded upB's
-If DK uses his slower attacks, double team they don't like it
-A few of them worry about our % as much as we do. They're on the lookout
-BAS will be cancled by just about anything DK has
-Look out at around 100%, DK will try to kill you as you reach that point
Falco:
-Watch out for their laserlock and laser pressure in general.
-Watch for sideB recovery spike.
-They know to avoid the chainthrow
-Lucario's uair > Falco's dair
-Definatly want us dead once we reach 100%ish
-They'll feed on predictable aura spheres... starve'm
-They really dont like being under us... Wonder why? =P
Fox:
-Wants to stay ground based to use their superior speed over lucario.
-They're on the look out for ftilt > utilt which we use to get them in the air, they'll try to keep you grounded with their dair and use nair for damage.
-They fear the 100% mark on Lucario, they know they'll die easily when we're 100%+. So be prepared for an aggressive fox before 100% and a defensive one after 100%
-They worry about our aerial game more then our ground game
-They know to look out for AAFP and chaingrabs
-Punish Fox's sideb with Aura sphere
Game and Watch:
-They don't like dthrow > dsmash against us since it can easily be dodged by Lucario.
-May use the pan and food (neutralB) to destroy our spheres and possibly to edgegaurd.
-Another tactic is to distract us with the pan(neutralB) then absorb a sphere(neutralB) with their bucket.
-WATCH OUT FOR THE BUCKET! It can absorb things that don't even hit the bucket (i.e. the aura sphere flies above or behind G&W, he'll still absorb it)
-Will KO at 40% with uncharged aura spheres(neutralB)
-Will KO at any percent with even one Force Palm Flame(sideB) or semi-charged sphere(neutralB)
-Look out for G&W's bair, the turtle. It's one attack that puts their aerial game above ours. It has extremely high priority, has multiple hits and you can't shield it.
-His ground game has priority over yours, they know that.
-his uair will push us up, rendering our dair useless BUT, eventually we will fall to the point where we hit with our dair.
-Like Toon Link, and us (Lucario) they enjoy their Dair, are like to mindgame out of it (their dair's fastfall actually slowfalls them) It also spikes.
-His dtilt can cancel our AS
-they all seem very strong-willed on the subject that G&W has a huge advantage over Lucario
Ganondorf:
-They rely on punishing smash start-up and cool-down lag from our smashes or bad rolls.
-Off the edge, be careful of his sideb! They don't seem to have a problem dieing if they take you with them, and remember, it's a grab, not doubleteam-able
-Watch out for a grounded sideB -> dtilt -> upB combo, it works on about all characters so expect it on Lucario too. Get ready to DI, tech/roll away or attack back.
-They dont like our projectile
-Expect an offensive Ganon
-They'll try to stay close, killing our spacing
-They'll try to prevent us charging our Aura Sphere(NeutralB)
-Ganon's dash attack will cancel any sphere until we're at 117%
-They may try to goad us into becoming more offensive then we should, keep your cool!
From a topic titled: Comps have ways of rendering some of Ganon's moves null. Players might learn these.
Ice Climbers:
-According to one of them, our roll poses a threat.
-They like their chaingrabs, so space accordingly.
-They like to desync, a common tactic of them so that they have one attack finishing while another attack is just starting.
-Near 40% or higher, stay away from the edge against ice climbers because they can Fthrow with Popo and spike you with Nana.
Ike:
-Will fight for his friends.
-Is also afraid of Lucario at 100% or over, so they'll try to kill you before you reach that point. Again watch for the aggressive 0-100% and defensive 100%+.
-They basically focus on spacing, and trying to get within Lucario's range.
-Are more accustomed to developing strategies around campers
Jigglypuf:
-Is more afraid at 50% or above.
-Will try uair, dair, sideb's all in the air to show their aerial abilities. Some of lucario's best game is in the air though so lets show them who rules the skies =P
-They like their rollout as a killer if you aren't near an edge but personally I've seen it used to recover more so then as a ground based attack.
-They seem to want to focus on gimping recovery since jigglypuf seems to be build for that. (Though there are some that will avoid this)
Kirby:
-They are discouraging use of the ground hammer and stone against anyone.
-Kirby's Aura sphere (with the Lucario hat) is fixed, meaning it's damage/knockback wont increase or decrease with Kirby's damage or stock.
-Kirby's Aura sphere will be equivalent to about ours when we're at 70-85% so expect to be sucked up early on in the game when our sphere can't match Kirby's.
-If you're sucked up by kirby, spam dair until you're released.
Link:
-Link's spacing is almost identical to ours so he'll be more prone to using projectiles to gain an edge.
-Link's uair and especially dair has ridiculous priority over Lucario.
-May try to combo us due to our floaty-ness
-They like hit and run strategies, punish, then roll or jump away for projectile use.
Lucas:
-Likes their Dair to gimp recovery.
-They will absorb spheres.
-PK fire can be used to counter Lucario's spacing and spheres.
Luigi:
-Like in melee, Luigi has ridiculously low friction, it can seriously gimp him but Luigi users are working on making it more useful, even if just for escapes.
-Watch out for jab > upB.
-This one is just my note. I'm certain that a good Luigi can gain more height and distance recovering then any other character (even pit).
-For those who don't know, luigi's downB, sideB and upB is a recovery. I personally loved my opponent thinking I was dead when I mained Luigi in melee just to come back. Believe me when I say the average user can gain good height with it, anyone who is good at mashing B can go from the floor to the top of the camera and probably more while still remembering Luigi's second jump, his upB and sideB for any horizontal movement.
-Watch for an A>A>upB from them. If it's anything like ours, the A>upB part can be shielded, spotdodged or attacked through.
Mario:
-Doesnt like the FLUDD. (downB)
-Nasty looking bair > uair > sh > bair > uair combo..
-His cape CAN hit Lucario, during flight or charging up, even Lucario's Extreme Speed (upB) will be turned around by it. If you know he's going to hit you on charge up, aim the wrong way.
-Very little info (not too many people maining him, or at least, not posting if they do)
Marth:
-Marth users seem to be very technical compared to other characters so far.
-They don't expect us to smash (and for good reason, our smashes are slow while marth is rather quick).
-They're weary of our large, lingering hitboxes; and with that said...
-Marth's fair (which they like to spam) is ranged longer then our fair; so are their tilts.
-They will want to DI back after a fair so that if we try to roll, we'll end up in front of them, not behind.
-Beware of their stupidly fast sideB (dancing blade) (which can eliminate all of their decay when used right). They'll want to punish or suprise attack with it.
-They see that we can combo very well when both at low %'s.
-They're on the lookout for edgegaurds and will activly try to edgegaurd us off the edge.
-Most characters will get defensive when we hit the 100% mark, Marth users seem to be a first in the sense that they'll counter by being more aggressive.
What a Marth user thinks of getting below Lucario...
Metaknight:
-Likes his edgegaurding techniques.
-Is confident on ground as well as air for most fights. Meaning they'll meet us wherever the fight ends up.
-I watched a video of a rival crew, apparently the best of the crew (in brawl at least) mains metaknight. All he did was get close and try for the upB kill. So watch out for the upB.
-They dont like projectiles... Lucario has learnt Aura Sphere!
-They'll try to attack us vertically, to take advantage of Lucario's floaty-ness.
-They're very ready to punish any of our slow attacks.
Ness:
-Prefers ground attacks on Lucario
-Can absorb spheres
-There's a Psi Magnet Cancel (downB) where Ness users can jump, smash, shield immediately after absorbing something, watch for this is you let off a poorly timed sphere.
-Afraid of us (well anyone actually) gimping there upB recovery.
-They're worried about their lack of range against Lucario
-They aren't afraid to edgehog or dair our recovery.
-Wont unnecessarily try to counter a uair or utilt juggle, they'll DI away and try a new approach
-PK fire to counter spheres.
-Yoyo used to punish our rolls
Peach:
-Ok I had a bunch to write here but it seems they're actually almost fighting over how to play against Lucario. They have no clear strategy around fighting Lucario, half say one thing half say the other so be prepared for anything.
Pikachu:
-Quick Attack Cancel (QAC): Basically when they quick attack into the ground, they can do anything the second they hit the ground: jumps, aerials, ect... Watch out for this.
-Some of the better Pika's like to space by SH > jolt(neutralB) > fast fall > rinse > repeat
-Some of the not so good Pika's will just spam Dsmash and Thunder. Dsmash can be DI'ed out of (hold up and just keep hitting left/right) and thunder is easily double teamed, air dodged or b-sticked out of.
-Quick Attack Lock (QAL): Basically if you don't tech, and fall flat on the ground Pikachu can repeatedly lock you to the ground with constant Quick Attacks much like Falco's laser lock but not much harder to pull off consistantly.
Olimar:
-They focus on spacing and ground attacks
-One mentioned that most of our combos start with a 'jab > jab > something' which can be countered by staying out of range
-They focus on spacing
-They may counter force palm with aerials but is discouraged from aerial fights in general
-All around they seem to want to try to gimp our recovery.
-They're generally discouraged from latching pikmin on us due to them giving us damage without knockback and because we can just double team them for a free, strong attack. (though they are wise to this and can predict it)
-They will throw pikmin however to block aura spheres (purple ones if they order them properly).
-They focus on spacing
-They like their dair spikes.
-They like shieldgrabs to punish us for being too close when we get in their range.
-They focus on spacing
Pit:
-Pit is broken. I don't mean he's strong, overpowered or anything, I mean that he has a million techniques that weren't discovered during bug testing. His glide canceling into a waveland for example. Seems that Pit users are in the process of learning and trying to master these techniques.
-Watch for fsmash and bair, their main killing attacks.
Pokemon Trainer:
-They know their pokemon. Squirtle is used to rack up damage, not to kill, they'll probably use squirtle early on but not as a killing pokemon.
Ivysaur likes bulletseed traps and nair, it has longer range so with proper spacing, it doesn't help our air game
-Ivysaur doesn't have much in the way of killing moves
R.O.B.:
-They will want to edgegaurd us because of our damage-less recovery.
-They expect our recovery to be predictable.. I'm guessing we should add our floaty-ness and air
-They have good fast projectiles which can counter ours.
-Their aerials may be slower, but have extremely high priority, can kill at relatively low percents and are disjointed. (nair is a favorite)
Samus:
-Samus' dair is probably one of the fastest, widest arced spikes in the game, they'll take advantage of it
-Watch missile spam, it's a good way to cancel our AS charge
-Energy balls is a good quick killing move for Samus
-Watch for zair (grab, tether in the air, it's a quick attack mainly used to stop an approach or combo)
-They're more prone to using non-fire attacks.
-Samus' bombs are timed, they wont explode 'on touch', they can still bomb-jump but the timing is different. You can run or jump through them without worry unless they've been sitting out for a bit.
Shiek:
-Will edgehog us (can vanish-hog, jumping off and using their upB to to get another hit in)
-Watch for upsmash, it's a **** good killing move, don't get too close with those dairs! Watch for them dash canceling into it.
-Sheik can combo f-tilt into itself
-Being below Sheik is a great place to be. She has no attacks that attack straight down, needles have been nerfed since melee and her dair has horrible landing lag
n/b/fair has no landing lag
-When keeping close with Sheik in the air, watch for Sheik's nair.
Snake:
-Will be looking for us to be able to predict attacks, expect unpredictability
-Instead of spot-dodge, they may focus more on shield due to their fast jab or shieldgrab
-May try to cancel our AASomething combo by jabbing back. This can be avoided by either timing the AASomething perfectly or holding down A until the last jab, then timing that correctly.
-Their Nikita (rocket launcher) can cancel our aura sphere AND keep going
-Will edgehog defensively
-Expect grenades used for spacing
-Prefers a ground battle, knows very well to avoid our dair
-Expect an aggressive first 0-100% and a defensive 100%+
-Knows to knock us to 50% to take away our grab combos
Sonic:
-Is worried about our range and spacing
-Probably wont be attacking from underneath or neutralB
-Will attempt the edgegaurd
-Will defiantly use his speed; dash > shield, punish missed smashes or double team
-Expect stuttersteps
-Will probably play more defensively due to their lack of killing attacks
-I guess this is different per person, but sonic players seem to like their theme of speed. Even if they play defensively expect a lot of quick attacks and shield pressure once they approach. Just space yourself accordingly and f-utilt to slow them down
Toon Link:
-They aren't too worried about our recovery
-They'll use their projectiles to out-range us and to cover up rushes.
-As predictbly as we use dair, they'll use dair
-Avoid laggy, punishable moves, ToonLink can cause serious damage (over 20%) with attacks.
-They worry once we hit 50% (they're rather floaty) expect defensive and more long range attacks at that point.
-Lucario may be floaty but he can be combo'd easily at lower percents, Toon Link can bair as fast as we fair so use range.
-Watch out for ToonLinks shield. Not L or R shield, the one he physically holds, it can block -Force Palm flames and Aura Spheres
-He may try to spike you, just airdodge it. Even if it means your death, otherwise you'll die anyway while he survives, at least this way he'll die too and you might survive.
-Catch projectiles when thrown, they don't expect it (at least the ones who play without items on)
Wario:
-Wario users like their air game, and will try to beat ours.
-They will use their speed to their advantage
-Watch out for the bike's super armor to get in close to Lucario and past Aura spheres
-He has Jigglypuf's maneuverability in the air
-They'll uair to kill but can be out ranged by our dair
-His fsmash also has super armor frames, but also bad ending lag
-They'll use their bike to recover, try to aim an Aura sphere or a good bair at them, not their bike.
Wolf:
-They may try killing our BAS or partly charged spheres with blaster shots (will go through ours at low-mid %'s)
-Watch out for the dair spike and bair
-Wolf's reflector has some invincibility frames, and very little ending lag, it can be used almost like a counter if he decided to attack out of it.
Yoshi:
-Yoshi users may try their infinite grab (grab > let you escape > grab again before you can do anything until you're off the edge > then fair spike) but Lucario is one of the characters that cant be chain grabbed this way, punish this
-Watch out for Yoshi dair'ing your recovery. It has a ton of hits, it's wide, and it can spike.
Zelda:
-Watch for Zelda's sideB's range and explosion radius (but can be very easily double teamed even when used nearby Zelda)
-Zelda's sideB may also be used to stop us from charging our aura spheres
-Dair is a fun lethal toy for them
-They'll use their faster attacks and priority to counter us on the ground trying to bypass our range.
-Their air game is strong against Lucario, to counter their air game, start your attack just before it should reach Zelda, the disjointed hitbox should hit before hers
-Know what Lucario's nair is? Good, you now know Zelda's. Anywhere you would use it, be prepared for Zelda to use it in return
-Zelda's uair will outrange our dair
Zero Suit Samus:
-They don't like staying under Lucario due to dair when they're in the air as well but if they're on the ground their whip punish our dair with it's superiour range
-They're the only ones so far that I've seen mention stage counterpicks (luigi's mansion)
-For all you guys out there, they may try to distract you with Zamus as eyecandy!
-Will space themselves further out then us due to the whip and stungun
-Be careful of the stungun, if they like to fully charge, it gives you just enough time to double team
