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I know this is a pretty strong claim and it smells like trolling, but read first before you flame, k? Ok.
In my other thread, DethSmasher claimed that he had spiked an Olimar player at around 80% with Diddy Kong, and that Olimar managed to Up-B early and grab the edge. This didn't make any sense to me, so I did a bit of messing around, and to my surprise, I managed to cancel Ike's d-air spike with Olimar's Up B, far before the stun from the d-air should've worn off (in fact, the stun wouldn't have worn off at all and Olimar would've died, normally.) I also noticed that sometimes, I could Jump early as well. I tried it on a couple of different characters to make sure the jumping thing wasn't a fluke, and that the Up B thing isn't Olimar-specific, and I was able to consistently cancel Ike and Samus's d-air spikes with Up B moves.
After some experimenting, I've come to the conclusion that Meteor Canceling wasn't removed from Brawl after all, but it certainly behaves VERY differently than it does in Melee. First off, you can't Meteor Cancel right away like you could in Melee - your character must fall a certain distance before you can Meteor Cancel. The harder you got meteored, the more your character will fall before you're allowed to Meteor Cancel.
The other catch is that if you repeatedly tap the Jump button, you won't Meteor Cancel, much like repeatedly hitting L or R will prevent you from teching. You can, however, mash Up B as much as you like, and you'll get a Meteor Cancel every time (assuming you weren't mashing the Jump button too.)
I don't have a way of recording this, but I can tell you how to verify it yourself easily. Make a Large-sized Stage Builder stage, and place platforms up on the top of the grid. Go to Training Mode, pick a character with a good, strong Meteor (Ike or Samus will do) and any other character you want. Set the training Dummy to Control, and give him at least 100-200%. Now set the speed to 1/4, have both characters fall through the platform, and Meteor the dummy. Now, with the dummy, mash Side B or Down B all you want - you'll die before it comes out. Now try that again, mashing Up+B. Your character will use his Up B move before dying off the bottom. Now try again, mashing the Jump button as fast as you can - the dummy will once again die. Finally, try again, but this time wait until the dummy falls at least as much as the time you got the Up B off, and THEN press Jump. The dummy will break out of stun, and jump.
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EDIT:
Here's all the known information so far:
- You can only Meteor Cancel using a jump or an Up-B special, like in Melee.
- Your character will always fall a certain distance (roughly half of the distance you'd normally fall while stunned) before you're allowed to Meteor Cancel.
- If you hit a Jump Button before your character is able to Meteor Cancel (this includes the attack's hit lag), you won't be allowed to Meteor Cancel with your Jump Button(s) for a certain amount of time. If you press any Jump Button again before this time passes, the timer will restart. In other words, if you hit the Jump Button too early and continue to tap the Jump Button, your character won't Meteor Cancel at all.
- There's no penalty for hitting Up on the Analog Stick too early, even if you have Tap Jump on.
- Even if you hit the Jump Button too early and can't Meteor Cancel using the Jump Button, you can ALWAYS Meteor Cancel using the Analog Stick (assuming you have Tap Jump ON), or with your character's Up-B.
I think people should look at spikes now as they look at any other knock back. It's just in a downward momentum. Eventually, the knock back wears off and you're free to move again, but the more damage you take, the longer it'll be before you can act.
Big breakthrough: You can buffer your jump during the period of time that you can't Meteor Cancel yet. Just tap the Jump button once shortly after you've been launched, and your character will jump as soon as it can, assuming you're not at like 200% (in which case, you may end up buffering it too early in relation to the amount of time you have to wait to meteor cancel.)
Quote:
I think people should look at spikes now as they look at any other knock back. It's just in a downward momentum. Eventually, the knock back wears off and you're free to move again, but the more damage you take, the longer it'll be before you can act.
This is clearly not what's going on. As I mentioned, you get to Up B BEFORE the stun wears off. There's no reason I should be able to Up B (or Jump) earlier than I can Down B, neutral B, or Side B.
This is really interesting, and a little depressing to me -- I rather enjoyed the lack of meteor recoveries, given how annoying it is to land the spikes anyway.
it works with everyone, i consisntly gets destroyed by my bros dedede because he can upb right after i spike, no mater the damage, basically upb cancels WHENEVER, you jsut have to be quick enough to do it before you die,
edit: technically not any % since at like 200% you cant humanly respond enough to up before you hit the death line, but i have spoiked my bros dedede at like 160ish and he recovers, but doesnt make it to the stage, so its kinda mostly reactionn time
Last edited by DethSmasher; 05-01-2008 at 03:08 PM.
i dont have two people, but check how side b tethers work with it, like sheik, do tethers cancel stun even though its a side b ? i cant test, some maybe look into it
This is really interesting, and a little depressing to me -- I rather enjoyed the lack of meteor recoveries, given how annoying it is to land the spikes anyway.
I know what you mean, but there's probably still spikes out there. We just have to find them.
@DethSmasher: No, Side B tethers won't work. It's either Jump, or Up B.
@doval, there are absolutly NO spikes, all meteor smashes, the strongest dair spike i know of it ganon and you can still cancel diddy just dropped in the nonexistent tier list lol
@doval, there are absolutly NO spikes, all meteor smashes, the strongest dair spike i know of it ganon and you can still cancel diddy just dropped in the nonexistent tier list lol
The spikes that would still exist would be ones that weren't intended to be meteors, like the way Marth's dair in Melee would send people downwards but couldn't be meteor cancelled. We'll have to find the attacks that have variable angles and can send people down but aren't flagged as meteors, basically. Strength of the attack doesn't impact that.
Edit: It is possible, though it seems unlikely to me, that they managed to make any attacks with a significant downwards component a meteor. If that is the case there won't be any spikes that can't be cancelled. Considering how many odd little quirks slipped in I'd bet more on there being at least a few non-meteor spikes than none at all.
Could this be Tap DI? Spamming Up-B inputs could give the machine a series of <Up> inputs, which would count as repeated tapping, and so DI as strong as your button-pressing is fast.
Linear Mode
