• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Jab-Canceling

Endless Nightmares

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
MN
I just thought I'd make a thread about this technique so that more people will know about it. It was relatively obscure in Melee and I think even less people know that it made it into Brawl.

Basically, jab-canceling allows you to perform a character's first jab repeatedly at a faster rate than pressing A, waiting and pressing again. It was useful for pressuring shields and hitting opponents before they could retaliate with a move of their own. Here is what it looked like in Melee.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJ8zjW3Dy4c

Hugs made great use of this technique, watch it in action at 0:38 of this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Hc7dZihvAg

There are two ways to jab-cancel.

One is to jab, then crouch some time near the end of the jab to cancel it. Then jab again. So it would go jab [crouch] jab [crouch] etc. at a fast and steady pace. Each character has a slightly different timing for this.

The second way, which I believe to be easier and more effective, is described by Mariownage here:

MARIOWNAGE said:
So basically this is like the speeded up single jab -> repeat: Most people know that if you crouch right after a single jab you can do another single jab at a fast rate. This method is inconsistant becuase you have to time both the tapping down for the reset and pressing A. The new method only recquires you to time the A, and I'm quite certain that it has an instant crouch cancel.

How to do it: Simply hold down to the bottom corner of your control stick, and then slide it to next corner opposite of the direction your character is facing. Then with proper timing start single jabbing like a maniac
For example:



It's very simple and can be buffered by nearly anything, such as wavedashing, dash canceling, spot dodging, shuffled aerials, etc. I'm not sure if it helps every character, ones like marth, roy, ganondorf, pikachu, and pichu (It did seem like it helped to me, but I don't have AR so I can't test)

I think someone like Phanna or Superdoodleman might know about this already or even had posted about this already, please forgive me if this is stealing your thunder.

If you are down tilting you are holding down too far and if you turn around and forward tilt, you are holding too far to the side. It's much easier to consistantly do it with a newer controller as well
Click to expand...
As many of you may have noticed, jabs are much better in this game. With the right application this technique can be very useful in Brawl.

I will make a chart of which characters can perform this technique and I will post it here asap.

I know Wario can, for sure. :)
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
thats a cool find, and i will be implementing this into my repetoir, asap.... also yay for me i think im first
 
D

Doval

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Puerto Rico
Thanks for making the thread and spreading the knowledge of this technique. However, I disagree with the opinion that jabs are much better in Brawl. Hardly any jab can truly combo into something else in this game, and most (if not all) are punishable by shieldgrabbing. In Melee, jabs could even combo into Smash Attacks.
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
1,052
Location
A lonely place
Luigi can't seem to do it with the technique MARIOWNAGE described. He always start to crawl for me.

Meta Knight obviously can't do it. At least it would be quite pointless if he can do this in someway.

I don't think Ivysaur can do it either, at least not with the technique mentioned above.

Some are harder to do than others, it's difficult to do this with some characters that can crawl. At least it was for me when I tried.
 
ihavespaceblondes

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
Location
Memphis, TN
You kind of have to use the jab - crouch - jab version of the technique with some characters in Brawl, because they'll crawl otherwise (Luigi, Wario). And so many characters have auto rapid jabs that it's worthless for them.
But it still works great with Samus... until the person figures out that "no hitstun" means they can just shield grab or attack you.
 
Endless Nightmares

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
MN
Just to add to Mariownage's technique

In Brawl, you have to jab first, then slide your control stick to diagonal-back, then you can keep jabbing.
 
Crystanium

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
It's strange that I should come across this thread today, considering that my brother and I were trying this out yesterday. I was playing as Samus, and I jabbed and then crouched to the point where the crouching frames were non-existent. Samus was jabbing like crazy. A + crouch + A + A. Oh yeah!
 
Crystanium

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
blade_master99 said:
does this work with ike?
Click to expand...
It works with:

  • Mario
  • Donkey Kong
  • Link
  • Samus
  • Fox
  • Luigi
  • Pit
  • Falco
  • Ike
  • Yoshi
  • King DeDeDe
  • Wolf
  • Bowser
  • Wario
  • Toon Link
  • R.O.B.
  • Captain Falcon
  • Jigglypuff
  • Lucas

It doesn't work with:

  • Marth
  • Diddy Kong
  • Shiek
  • Meta Knight
  • Ivysaur
  • Snake
  • Ganondorf

It has trouble with:

  • Zero Suit Samus
  • Kirby
  • Squirtle
  • Charizard
  • Ice Climbers
  • Lucario
  • Ness
  • Sonic

It's pointless with:

  • Pikachu
  • Mr. Game & Watch
  • Zelda
  • Peach
  • Olimar
 
D

Doval

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Puerto Rico
Dryn, you must be doing it wrong. Every character can do it, and it's only redundant or pointless for characters with only one A attack (Ganondorf, Meta Knight), characters with turbo jabs (e.g. Ness's d-tilt, Pikachu's jab), or characters whose AAA is essentially a faster version of the first hit in the combo (e.g. Marth.)

And yes, like 56k said, characters that crawl can simply jab first, then hold diagonal back and use the next jab as the character begins to crouch, but before it starts to crawl.

I can't think of a good situation to use this though.
 
Crystanium

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Tristan_win said:
Bull ****

I've used this countless times with sheik and it does work.

Edit: I also just notice that you miss spelled Sheik thus better proving my point that your testing is flawed
Click to expand...
My spelling is irrelevant. I could have called her Ninja, and it wouldn't make any difference. However, if you are able to use it with Sheik, then that's fine. I wasn't saying my list was flawless. I was simply laying things out, and I was expecting correction. Goodness. Some people need to calm down. Errare humanum est. It's a shame that many don't admit that.

Doval said:
Dryn, you must be doing it wrong. Every character can do it, and it's only redundant or pointless for characters with only one A attack (Ganondorf, Meta Knight), characters with turbo jabs (e.g. Ness's d-tilt, Pikachu's jab), or characters whose AAA is essentially a faster version of the first hit in the combo (e.g. Marth.)

And yes, like 56k said, characters that crawl can simply jab first, then hold diagonal back and use the next jab as the character begins to crouch, but before it starts to crawl.

I can't think of a good situation to use this though.
Click to expand...
I might be doing it wrong. I was thinking about that when I went further with some of the characters. I noticed that the timing differs for each character as well. You can easily pull it off with Mario. However, your words seem contrary to Andromeda, who bolded Ganondorf as being capable of performing this.

I haven't tried using the d-back, because I thought that if I did it that way, that the character I was playing as would turn the other way around. I suppose I'll have to try it that way, but I can't say I'll do well. Anyway, you're right again, Doval.
 
D

Doval

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Puerto Rico
However, your words seem contrary to Andromeda, who bolded Ganondorf as being capable of performing this.
Click to expand...
Ganondorf CAN do it, but it's utterly pointless. Why jab, hold down and back, wait until you see Ganondorf crouch, and jab again, when you could simply buffer the next jab so it executes on the first possible frame?

This technique is essentially a way to bypass an AAA combo's window of opportunity for continuing the combo. Most AAA combos can be continued even after your character has returned to a neutral position (extreme example: Ike's AAA.) By crouching, the game "breaks" the combo so that hitting A again will result in the first hit all over again. However, you can do the second hit in most combos sooner than you can loop the first hit by jab canceling, and this is horribly punishable with a shieldgrab anyways.
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
1,052
Location
A lonely place
I bolded Ganondorf, because by the tilting-stick diagonaly you can constantly use Ganondorfs jab faster than you can if you just hit A without tiltling the stick. So Ganondorfs jab must be able to cancel.

EDIT: ... as Doval just explained. :p
 
D

Doval

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Puerto Rico
I bolded Ganondorf, because with the tilting-stick diagonaly you can constantly use Ganondorfs jab faster than you can if you just hit A without tiltling the stick. So Ganondorfs jab must be able to cancel.

EDIT: ... as Doval just explained.
Click to expand...
I'm saying the opposite. Mashing A is faster because you buffer it. Crouching cancels buffered commands.

This tech does absolutely nothing to shorten the jabs themselves. You can't do the next jab any sooner than you would be able to do, say, up-smash. The IASA frames are absolutely the same. All you're doing is canceling the combo so the next time you hit A, you won't get the next hit.
 
D

Doval

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Puerto Rico
so basically for ike is it possible to pull off A-A jab cancel utilt?
Click to expand...
No. The point of the tech is to be able to loop the first hit in the AAA combo. Jab Canceling does absolutely nothing to shorten the jab's IASA frames.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
^^Can't Samus up B out of that. I know Marth can, and I think Sonic can. But at the same time it's not actually decreasing the lag on the jab, just closing the window for continuing the jab combo. You could shield in the same timeframe that you could crouch.
 
D

Dolphin-Safe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
119
Doval said:
I'm saying the opposite. Mashing A is faster because you buffer it. Crouching cancels buffered commands.

This tech does absolutely nothing to shorten the jabs themselves. You can't do the next jab any sooner than you would be able to do, say, up-smash. The IASA frames are absolutely the same. All you're doing is canceling the combo so the next time you hit A, you won't get the next hit.
Click to expand...
I don't know about this game, but in Melee you could use the IASA frames on single jabs to interrupt it with any move but another jab. Since you could not IASA the jab with another jab, frame perfect jab cancelling with 1 crouch frame allowed Zelda and Ganondorf to jab->jab 2 frames sooner than simply using A alone.

Are you entirely sure that was changed in Brawl and it now allows IASAing single jabs with another jab?
 
Vro

Vro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
1,661
Location
Chicago
Thank you 56K for your post, and of course MARIOPWNAGE. Dryn thank you for the list, altho it seems slightly flawed, it's a good starting place.
 
Ulevo

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Dryn said:
It works with:

  • Mario
  • Donkey Kong
  • Link
  • Samus
  • Fox
  • Luigi
  • Pit
  • Falco
  • Ike
  • Yoshi
  • King DeDeDe
  • Wolf
  • Bowser
  • Wario
  • Toon Link
  • R.O.B.
  • Captain Falcon
  • Jigglypuff
  • Lucas

It doesn't work with:

  • Marth
  • Diddy Kong
  • Shiek
  • Meta Knight
  • Ivysaur
  • Snake
  • Ganondorf

It has trouble with:

  • Zero Suit Samus
  • Kirby
  • Squirtle
  • Charizard
  • Ice Climbers
  • Lucario
  • Ness
  • Sonic

It's pointless with:

  • Pikachu
  • Mr. Game & Watch
  • Zelda
  • Peach
  • Olimar
Click to expand...
Did you try Jab Canceling with some characters that have good Forward Tilt Combos, like Meta Knight and Snake?
 
Crizthakidd

Crizthakidd

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,619
Location
NJ
the vid u posted by hugs was awsome lol. good shield pressure.

anyway... dont pple jjap cancel by shielding at the last frames? or is this better this way by the quatre circle back
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom