Dolphin Slash Edgestall

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

Okay, I couldn't find anything related to this in my searches, but heck, I'm pretty bad at noticing that kind of junk. Give me hell if this has been noticed already.

On Battlefield, I was tinkering with Marth's recovery and noticed that if I dipped down low enough, I could Dolphin Slash (Up+B), hit about 3 character lengths worth of the STAGE floor with his sword, and instantly sweet-spot the ledge. Due to fast falling and Dolphin Slash's stupid fast properties, you can practically force your opponent to stay a considerable distance away from the ledge while still being almost perfectly safe between the invulnerability frames from the ledge and Dolphin Slash. I couldn't help but draw parallels with Ike's Aether on this.

I'm going to try it on other levels. Sorry once again if this was already discovered/feel free to dismiss me etc.

feardragon64 · May 7, 2008

I like to do this every so often, but be careful, if they manage to time it properly and grab the edge in time, you're dead instantly, and they didn't even have to hit you >>.

Boat Mode · May 7, 2008

After like 2 times the other player will just jump high enough so thier safe and grab the edge, b/c by then it get predictable

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

After some testing, the only level I can't seem to make it work on is Final Destination, because of its weird *** edges.

I would be highly surprised if any character could move fast enough to hug the edge. You only leave it for 15-20 frames, tops. And I'm talking frames, not seconds here. Sonic might be able to hug fast enough. Jumping wouldn't work at all, because I know no character could jump, and then fall fast enough to hug the edge. The other thing to consider is that you can change up timings and such so its not just some clockwork that your opponent can time perfectly. Heck, combining this with ledgehopped fairs would pretty much guarantee getting back on the stage. xD

Mike_Echoes · May 7, 2008

I could see Snake being able to counter this... stupid Old Man. Anyways. yeah Snake has plenty of options, Niki, Nades and C4 to get around this I think

Boat Mode · May 7, 2008

Well, I can already say this will not work on any snake with almost an eight of a brain. Missle drop right over where ur up b'ing...

Dark Sonic · May 7, 2008

^^Then don't use it against snake? Think for a minute here. I've done this myself and it's actually pretty usefull for just making them back off. If you happen to be fighting a character with good range, then this is a simple way to make them back up a little and give you more of a chance to get back on the stage.

Boat Mode · May 7, 2008

I was looking at it as a literal stall tactic....

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

Indeed, why the heck would I use this tactic on a character who can obviously screw it over? Even then, the timing would have to be impeccable. The amount of time you spend not invincible is tiny!

I think this tactic would be most useful on character like Ike or Zamus who have the range to harass the edge. The possibilities are just being explored!

Mike_Echoes · May 7, 2008

Does this technique work on Smashville? Lylat Cruise?

Edit: Sorry I see you said "CAN'T" work
Never mind me

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

Mike_Echoes said:
Does this technique work on Smashville? Lylat Cruise?

Edit: Sorry I see you said "CAN'T" work
Never mind me

Actually, you need to watch Lylat Cruise. It can tilt on you, and completely screw it up, either getting you stuck underneath or making you miss the ledge entirely. =/

I also got it work FD finally. It takes some diligence, and if you don't do it PERFECTLY you die. Its kinda gay. But its something to remember.

1170 · May 7, 2008

I can get it to work on FD without much trouble.

I consistently use this against various final smashes (most often, this is the landmasters), when I'm playing with them on.

Mike_Echoes · May 7, 2008

I'm def gonna add this to my game... sigh, John's Incoming for using this

Heroes_Never_Die · May 7, 2008

Lol I remember using this in Cruel Brawl; 'cept I did counter first while dropping down so they would come after me.

feardragon64 · May 7, 2008

I mean, the fact is that someone with good timing CAN get back. You're up-b'ing FACING the stage, so it's no like they can't get close. And it's not just snake, it's a lot of characters that can easily get above marth, or have enough air speed DI to get past marth and, as said earlier, make it a suicide. And a worst case scenario? They mistime it and get hit at the top of your up+b BACK onto the stage. The way dolphin slash works is that the earlier you hit them in it, the better the knockback. You're still doing it pretty late into it so it's very unlikely you'll k.o. them or launch them far enough to do it on the other side. In a best case scenario, you might be able to stage spike them, but that would require them to come from such a low angle that it's probably better to just do a normal, well timed, edgehog. It's much safer too(much lower chance of SD). I mean, it's a good idea, and it's worth using a few times, but not something that people should change their marth edgehogging into as a standard. Just another trick in the bag for the people that DO come at a low angle or DO have really bad timing. =]

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

feardragon64 said:
I mean, the fact is that someone with good timing CAN get back. You're up-b'ing FACING the stage, so it's no like they can't get close. And it's not just snake, it's a lot of characters that can easily get above marth, or have enough air speed DI to get past marth and, as said earlier, make it a suicide. And a worst case scenario? They mistime it and get hit at the top of your up+b BACK onto the stage. The way dolphin slash works is that the earlier you hit them in it, the better the knockback. You're still doing it pretty late into it so it's very unlikely you'll k.o. them or launch them far enough to do it on the other side. In a best case scenario, you might be able to stage spike them, but that would require them to come from such a low angle that it's probably better to just do a normal, well timed, edgehog. It's much safer too(much lower chance of SD). I mean, it's a good idea, and it's worth using a few times, but not something that people should change their marth edgehogging into as a standard. Just another trick in the bag for the people that DO come at a low angle or DO have really bad timing. =]

You'd have to have impeccable timing. I mean like, you need to get to me in small fraction of a second timing. You'd practically have to be moving towards me to jump off to get me in time. If your doing that then why should I not just ledgehop fair or Counter?

Its essentially a tactic to either make you back off or approach, in which case I can take advantage of both situations. If I can do that, I'm getting back on the stage with no issues. Thats a boon in my opinion. Anytime I can control my opponent is a GOOD thing... right?

feardragon64 · May 7, 2008

Wait, are you talking about using this for YOU recovering or edgeguarding someone ELSE recovering? >>

And I think I'm not doing it right if it's as fast as you say. Could you get a video up or something o.O?

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 7, 2008

feardragon64 said:
Wait, are you talking about using this for YOU recovering or edgeguarding someone ELSE recovering? >>

And I think I'm not doing it right if it's as fast as you say. Could you get a video up or something o.O?

I'm saying when I'M recovering, as in, I have a hold of the ledge, but my opponent is being a jerk and not letting my back onto the stage. Normally, I would just ledge-hop Fairs to make them back off, but I have another option now. Specifically, one that give me a lot of invulnerability frames and attacks my opponents feet if they happen to stand close enough to the edge!

Though, this as a edge-guard is interesting. You can hog the edge quite well with this, and would give a potential for stage-spikes, but would be rather risky. Maybe something to pull out every once in a while.

I can't see why you can't do it. All you need to do is hold the edge, tap down to Fast Fall off the edge, and when you reach a certain point, hit Up-B. You'll slash back to the edge and sweetspot. You need to practice how far you drop to get the sweetspot. When you do it right, it should only take a third of a second to a half a second. Most of it is spent dropping down actually.

feardragon64 · May 8, 2008

Haha. Alright, my misunderstanding was that you were using this as edge-guarding. As I said before, and you just said in your last post, it's risky but it's worth doing every so often.

But ya, it's great to use when you're recovering and can't get back onto the edge(at least to throw off timing for their attempts to guard against you from coming back up. An interesting method. You can surely do it then, but it only really is effective if they're trying to come down to you or attacking you with dtilts(and this doesn't actually hit them). But if you can get them to stop doing it by doing this, then by all means go for it =]

FishkeeperTimmay! · May 8, 2008

feardragon64 said:
Haha. Alright, my misunderstanding was that you were using this as edge-guarding. As I said before, and you just said in your last post, it's risky but it's worth doing every so often.

But ya, it's great to use when you're recovering and can't get back onto the edge(at least to throw off timing for their attempts to guard against you from coming back up. An interesting method. You can surely do it then, but it only really is effective if they're trying to come down to you or attacking you with dtilts(and this doesn't actually hit them). But if you can get them to stop doing it by doing this, then by all means go for it =]

I can think of QUITE a few characters that will try to do this. Many characters best options involve staying on the stage and just spamming a long ranged move. The ones that want to fly out to hit you might have issues when you constantly are below the stage. Heck, if anything it'll just piss off your opponent and make them impatient like fair ledge camping does. xD

Dolphin Slash Edgestall

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Information

Network