Ledge Double Jump Renewal [VIDEO]

3GOD · May 10, 2008

I guess this is a new technique. I read this forum a lot, and I searched for it but found nothing like this. I propose just calling it Ledge Double Jump Renewal, but I'm certainly open to better names.

When hanging on the ledge (let's say right edge to go along with my video), you drop, double jump aerial, ~~press left to make your character sort of scrape the edge~~, and if you've done it correctly, you can double jump before you hit the ground. In other words, ~~it seems that the scraping over the stage ledge during certain aerial attacks renews the double jump~~. It turns out that this was what's now being called "Second Jump Recovery." It has nothing to do with scraping the edge, but instead it's totally dependent on the timing of the aerial. If the aerial ends just about the ground level, you can buffer a double jump and avoid actually landing on the ground.

Video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pHupfLvIUOw

So far, here are a few that I know work:

Mario - Bair & Dair
Luigi - Bair
Wario - Dair & Fair
Sheik - Bair
Samus - Bair
Zero Suit Samus - Fair
Pit - Bair (restores his first double jump)
R.O.B. - Uair
Olimar - Bair & Dair
Fox - Uair
Falco - Bair & Uair
Wolf - Bair
Captain Falcon - Uair
Ivysaur - Bair
Squirtle - Bair & Uair
Marth - Fair
Mr. Game & Watch - Uair & Fair
Sonic - Uair & Fair

I'll be filling in the list as I figure out what works, but I certainly appreciate any help with it.

~~Also, it may be a little stage dependent - I know it works on Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, and Pokemon Stadium 1. I'll try to figure out which stages work/don't work.~~

Ulevo · May 10, 2008

Hm, I can see this being useful for defending against edge guarders, particularly ones that get too close.

Endless Nightmares · May 10, 2008

All the cool tricks apply to Wario :laugh:

himynameisruss · May 10, 2008

nice find there

GimR · May 10, 2008

nice find

I was doing that with Meta Knights Up B a couple days ago. I never though it could be applied to aerials. I wonder if it can be done with other characters B attacks also?

bottles vs mumbo · May 10, 2008

dont see what he is talking about. he just grabbed the edge and got his two jumps back. not even close to new. or am i missing something?

bottles vs mumbo · May 10, 2008

"show your moves"

Kyu Puff · May 10, 2008

bottles vs mumbo said:
"show your moves"

Usually you only get your second jump back from the ledge. He used his second jump, got close to the ground, and used his second jump again.

SparkEd · May 10, 2008

Looks like Koopa Hopping.

...Except more useful. *SHOT*

3GOD · May 10, 2008

Ulevo said:
Hm, I can see this being useful for defending against edge guarders, particularly ones that get too close.

Yeah, I think this is probably the only application of the technique. The double jump renewal allows you to attack them/pressure their shield and jump away a little quicker (no landing lag or startup for a grounded jump). Depending on the character, it would be about 9-14 frames quicker than landing and jumping off the ground.

56k said:
All the cool tricks apply to Wario

Yes, he definitely has many many tricks!

By the way, I find it easiest with his Dair which is probably the best move for which this has worked.

God-is-my-Rock said:
nice find

I was doing that with Meta Knights Up B a couple days ago. I never though it could be applied to aerials. I wonder if it can be done with other characters B attacks also?

You mean you were jumping out of Meta Knight's Up-B similar to how Bowser can jump out of his Side-B?

Kyu Puff said:
Usually you only get your second jump back from the ledge. He used his second jump, got close to the ground, and used his second jump again.

I think that "got close to the ground" part may be very important. I haven't been able to make this work for some characters with large double jumps because I believe they are too high off the ground. For instance, Lucas and Yoshi have large/strange double jumps that I've been unable to renew as I did with Wario. But I was playing around on Battlefield, and I think I renewed their double jumps from the ledge off of one of the side platforms.

SparkEd said:
Looks like Koopa Hopping.

...Except more useful. *SHOT*

I don't know if it's more useful or not, but it is a lot like Koopa Hopping. I'm pretty sure you have to end the aerial close to the ground similar to how Bowser must be above the ground to jump out of his Side-B.

1HKO · May 10, 2008

Please grant this special power to Jiggz too Sakurai, pretty please with a cherry on top. This is what Jiggz needs! Although I do like it when Mario (my other main) gets something like this.

Vro · May 10, 2008

Interesting. Just like Koopa Hopping, it seems aerials done very close to the ground have a renewal property. Exploitable? Who knows..

3GOD · May 10, 2008

Updated with more characters for which this works.

The keys seem to be getting that kind of "bump" effect over the edge and having the aerial end just above the ground. For some characters you have to drop a little farther off the ledge before you double jump aerial in order to get the correct height for the finish of the aerial.

1HKO · May 10, 2008

Does anyone know if this works for Jiggz?

Illussionary · May 10, 2008

1HKO said:
Does anyone know if this works for Jiggz?

Doubt since Jiggs already has 5 mid air jumps anyway...

phanna · May 11, 2008

Awesome !

feardragon64 · May 11, 2008

Nice find! Pretty interesting. I have a feeling since it depends on the speed of the attack that kirby's bair might work since it comes out pretty fast and has next to no lag. I don't have access to brawl for another day so give it a shot if you have time! =D

Good job though!

ssbbFICTION · May 11, 2008

Great work!

1HKO · May 11, 2008

OK I guess

Illussionary said:
Doubt since Jiggs already has 5 mid air jumps anyway...

Thank you, I really wanted to know this whether it was the outcome I wanted or it was the real one.

Tristan_win · May 11, 2008

huh, now that's interesting

I wonder if a ledge is necessary to do this because if you could do this on any platform then everyone could do there own version of Koopa Hopping

Great discovery man and thank you for just making brawl meta game better.

Crizthakidd · May 11, 2008

this+marth= freaking ace man thanks lol

S2 · May 11, 2008

I'm assuming that this works like Bowser's Claw jumping. That is, while it appears he's floating in the animation, he's technically touching the ground.

Still, could be useful with faster characters. I look forward to seeing what happens with this in practical applications.Thanks for posting it.

DanGR · May 11, 2008

this isn't really new news to me, but it look like you just buffered a jump. It looks like the same physics of this:
go to training mode as mario(it's easier to do with him for some reason)
jab once then immediately jump.

you'll do your DJ off the ground if you do it correctly. I didn't test it with other characters b/c it didn't seem very important. I DID do it with yoshi b/c of his unique DJ with super armor.(it was harder than with mario, but worth it

)
It seems to me like all he's doing is buffering the jump after the attack. I guess it's new to the smashboards...

buffering- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167109

3GOD · May 11, 2008

S2 said:
I'm assuming that this works like Bowser's Claw jumping. That is, while it appears he's floating in the animation, he's technically touching the ground.

Still, could be useful with faster characters. I look forward to seeing what happens with this in practical applications.Thanks for posting it.

Yeah, I think you're right about the floating thing. I've noticed that it gives a sort of floating effect if you end up a little high off the ground...it's really evident with Ness and Lucas since they have large double jumps, but you can see it with many other characters as well.

I think that the "ledge bump" causes this floating effect, and when you're close enough to the ground, it lets you do a double jump out of it. Who knows why they made Bowser do this all the time with his Side-B?

DanGR said:
this isn't really new news to me, but it look like you just buffered a jump. It looks like the same physics of this:
go to training mode as mario(it's easier to do with him for some reason)
jab once then immediately jump.

you'll do your DJ off the ground if you do it correctly. I didn't test it with other characters b/c it didn't seem very important. I DID do it with yoshi b/c of his unique DJ with super armor.(it was harder than with mario, but worth it)
It seems to me like all he's doing is buffering the jump after the attack. I guess it's new to the smashboards...

buffering- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167109

No this is not buffering a jump. Notice that Wario drops from the ledge, double jumps the Dair over the edge, and without touching the ground double jumps again. He gets two double jumps without touching the ground.

Pasqual · May 11, 2008

56k said:
All the cool tricks apply to Wario

Ha, seriously. Wario is glitched like a mofo.

Nice discovery, off the top of my head I can see some good applications of GW's fair into dair on the bonus jump. Hope to hear more about this and see some practical usage soon.

peachfvl · May 11, 2008

could this work with peach?
I mean drop from the ledge jump+float aerial->jump renewal->float again?

can someone test this for me since i have no wii

DanGR · May 11, 2008

3GOD said:
No this is not buffering a jump.

ok then, how do you explain it better?

and how do you explain what i did with mario? or did you try it.

Edit: nvm about my first question. I see what you said about that in your same post addressing me about my first post.

Wind Owl · May 11, 2008

Does this work with any of Zelda's aerials?

S2 · May 12, 2008

Dunno if it works with Zelda's aerials or whether it'd be that useful if it does.

I'd test it out, but my Wii is in a different castle (in my apartment 2 hours south of here).

peachfvl · May 12, 2008

S2 said:
Dunno if it works with Zelda's aerials or whether it'd be that useful if it does.

I'd test it out, but my Wii is in a different castle (in my apartment 2 hours south of here).

can u test it with peach plz?
the thing of floating again.......... I would really appreciate it

Chaotic Yoshi · May 13, 2008

Is this along the lines or Bowsers/Kirbys/Charizards infinite jump thing? They work because they barely skim the ground but the game treats it as if they touch the ground, and reset their jumps. I could be completely wrong, but this is still awesome.

1HKO · May 13, 2008

I didn't know Kirby or Charizard could do it. Would you mind explaining how?

RolandBeoulve · May 13, 2008

I've noticed this with Lucario when I used Extreme Speed and barely passed the ledge and I could do anything even though I had not touched the ground and had not grabbed the ledge. It's kind of like Zelda's I guess nice find with all of those characters though. Seems that huge area where you can snap to the ledge is magical.

3GOD · Jun 4, 2008

Turns out this was an early "discovery" of what's now being called "Second Jump Recovery." I didn't bother to find out the cause, but we now know that it's all about timing the aerial so that the animation ends just about the ground level. See this thread for more information:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119

Tyr_03 · Jun 4, 2008

Theoretically any aerial that can be ISJR'd should work for this as well. I think...

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