autocancelled aerials

[Tyr_03]

This is a technique some of us have been doing for a while now, possibly without even realizing it. Hopefully I can explain it a little better and it can possibly see some wider use. This is not the same as regular auto lag cancelling aerials in which the move has ended before the character lands.

Autocancelling is when an aerial's animation is cancelled at a certain point in its duration by touching the ground. This puts the character into their nuetral standing position out of which any move can be done. This is usually during the begining of the aerial's animation although the time window is slightly different for each.

It doesn't work with some aerials for one of two reasons:
1. The move's hitbox does not come out before it autcancels on the ground.
2. The move has a specific landing animation that overrides the cancel.

This is a list of all aerials that the hitbox will come out and still have the move be cancelled this way.


Mario
Uair, Nair, Bair

DK
Bair

Link
Bair, Fair, Nair

Samus
Bair, Fair, Nair, Uair, Dair

Kirby
Uair, Nair

Fox
Nair, Dair

Pikachu
None

Marth
Uair, Nair, Fair

Game and Watch
Bair, Nair, Uair

Luigi
None

Diddy
Bair, Nair

Zelda
Nair

Sheik
Fair, Bair, Nair

Pit
None

Metaknight
Fair, Bair, Uair

Falco
Bair, Dair, Nair

Squirtle
Fair, Bair, Nair

Ivysaur
Bair, Nair

Charizard
None

Ike
Nair

Snake
None

Peach
Fair, Uair, Bair, Nair, Dair

Yoshi
Bair, Nair, Uair

Ganondorf
None

Ice Climbers
Nair

King Dedede
None

Wolf
Bair, Uair, Nair

Lucario
Nair

Ness
Fair, Bair, Uair

Sonic
Bair

Bowser
None

Wario
Uair

Toon Link
Bair

ROB
Bair, Nair

Olimar
Fair, Bair

Captain Falcon
Uair, Nair

Jigglypuff
Bair, Uair, Fair

Lucas
Bair, Uair

Zero Suit Samus
Uair, Bair, Nair

I'm sure there will be a good amount of controversy over some of these because of how precise some of the testing has to be. Some aerials have so little lag even when not autocancelled that it is hard to notice the difference. However if you jab immediately after both, the autocancelled one will come out noticably faster.

If I have made any errors please feel free to tell me about it. I'm by no means an expert with every character so it's pretty likely that I made a mistake or two.

[phanna]

Ah, landing while you perform an aerial. Revolutionary. Almost as good as the other 'technique' of completing an aerial in the air to avoid any landing lag.

These are both very, very simple mechanics... still, your post & list helps people understand how they should use this, so nice.

[Thiocyanide]

A lot of people have been doing this intuitively. I thought knowing which moves you could do this with was just general character knowledge.

I will say knowing which aerials people might try to do this to me with with OTHER characters is handy, though.

[Tyr_03]

Yeah I know it's a pretty obvious thing but surprisingly few people seem to really understand what's going on. Plus since it doesn't actually work with every aerial because of animations put in I thought it was worth mentioning. For instance none of Pikachu's aerials work for this because they all have some sort of animation that adds lag no matter when you land with it. Looking back at an earlier post I noticed Yuna didn't quite understand what was going on when that one guy showed the video of Peach's aerials. So obviously it's not just noobs who aren't quite getting the picture.

Simple built in mechanics? Yes. Widely understood? Not quite. So hopefully this thread will help. I make no claims on it as an "advanced technique" whatsoever.

[Ankoku]

Isn't this just autocanceling? I thought landing after an aerial animation was finished was just that - it's not canceling anything. Landing during an attack animation and canceling the lag sounds like autocanceling to me.

[Corner-Trap]

I thought we had a name for this already, lagless aerials.

[Tyr_03]

- "Auto-Canceling" aerials
L-Canceling is gone, but there exists a common-sense trick for eliminating lag after your aerials. Simply perform an aerial such that the majority of the attack's animation is over when you touch the ground. Each move has different timing (there's probably a relationship between this and IASA frames), but with practice, "Auto-Canceling" should become second nature.

That's the definition from the AT stickied thread. For this, rather than cancelling it by touching the ground after the animation is through, your touching the ground early on during the aerial animation which cancels it. And no these are not "lagless aerials." Read the thread.

The term autocancelling would apply better to this but the name was already taken.

[Dolphin-Safe]

That definition is not accurate. While not every move has them on both ends of the duration, auto-cancel windows can and do exist both at the beginning as well as the end of the move. It's just a programmed part of an attack where if you happen to land during that period you do a normal landing instead of the attack's landing.

The ending auto-cancel is landing from a given point and anytime after then, while the beginning one is from a point and anytime before then.

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

can't you cancel the lag on ganondorf's dair?

[Tyr_03]

Dolphin-Safe: I completely agree with you. I have no idea why the definition is inaccurate in the way that it is. For clarity's sake I didn't use the same name because a good number of swf memebers know autocancelling only by that definition.

N.A.G.A.C.E.: You're the perfect example of what I described above. Ganondorf's dair will only lag cancel after the move has completed. Read the thread more carefully.

[aznxk3vi17]

Originally Posted by N.A.G.A.C.E

can't you cancel the lag on ganondorf's dair?

This is done by performing the dair as you short hop, thus allowing the animation to finish before you land. The topic in question is for aerials that cancel lag when you land before the animation is finished.

To my knowledge, Wario's Nair autocancels. Fair might too.

[Tyr_03]

^^
Pretty sure they don't actually. They just have very small lag time upon landing. If I remember correctly there is a very short animation where Wario falls on the ground before he can attack. If an aerial can be canceled this way the character will switch to their standing position immediately. For Wario these are slightly slower than a cancelled aerial would be.

[aznxk3vi17]

Originally Posted by Tyr_03

^^
Pretty sure they don't actually. They just have very small lag time upon landing. If I remember correctly there is a very short animation where Wario falls on the ground before he can attack. If an aerial can be canceled this way the character will switch to their standing position immediately. For Wario these are slightly slower than a cancelled aerial would be.

Hmm... I am aware of the landing animation, but I never noticed it adding any delay frames to my next attack i.e. I could go straight into a jab. Perhaps it's just a very, very small lag time. My mistake.

[Tyr_03]

Yeah it's just a very short time because of the natural properties of the aerial. I ran into this a lot with some characters but once you get used to recognizing what it looks like for each character you can tell the difference.

[NoVaLombardia]

Originally Posted by Tyr_03

- "Auto-Canceling" aerials
L-Canceling is gone, but there exists a common-sense trick for eliminating lag after your aerials. Simply perform an aerial such that the majority of the attack's animation is over when you touch the ground. Each move has different timing (there's probably a relationship between this and IASA frames), but with practice, "Auto-Canceling" should become second nature.

That's the definition from the AT stickied thread. For this, rather than cancelling it by touching the ground after the animation is through, your touching the ground early on during the aerial animation which cancels it. And no these are not "lagless aerials." Read the thread.

The term autocancelling would apply better to this but the name was already taken.

do these said cancels have any frames of landing lag whatsoever or 0?