|Projectile. Defense. Guide.|

Neb · May 15, 2008

Up coming...
· Any suggestions…

Updates
·None at the moment.

Intro.

This guide consist of cancellation and unique qualities G&W's moves have in a defensive manner, not just offensive. What I hope the guide is going to accomplish is a makeshift defense that can be very useful as a secondary safeguard to the shield, or when the buckets full. This may or may not interest the reader depending on your style of play, if it does good, but if it doesn't I ask you to not flame.

Pros
o Secondary Defense
o Advanced Approaching
o Limits overuse of dodging
o Mixes up defenses
o Shield against Spam
o Advanced Recovery Defense
o Can Bait/Mind-game
o Entertaining (Fun to use)

Cons
o Requires Precision and Practice
o May or may not stale moves
o Can be risky

________________________________________________

Manhole [D-tilt]

Dtilt + Pikmin= Catapult anyone?

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrows (not fully charged), Bombs (At a distance), Boomerang
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile (only seeker)
· ZSS: Paralyzer/Whip (Sweet-Spot)
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanuts (No lag/ disintegrates them)
· Pit: Arrows
· PT (Pokemon Trainer): Ivysaur- Razor Leaf, Charizard- Flamethrower
· Snake: Missile (Redirects), D-smash mine (Harmlessly detonates)
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Egg Roll
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKF
· Wario: Bike parts/Bike
· Olimar: Pikmin (PWNage)
· TL: Same as link
· Fox & Falco: Fire Fox/Fire Bird
· Lucas: PKF

Note: We know this techs efficient use in edge guarding, spacing, wall infinite’ing and much more, but one of its newer uses would have to be in a defensive exploit. The manhole cancels quite a few projectiles and some smashes, just flip the lid at the right moment and you should negate said offenses before you can even see the plate appear! Its pretty quick, swift enough to cancel out a thunder jolt from Pikachu at point blank range and allow G&W to counter the annoying mouse with some bairs, nair, fairs, dairs, whatever floats your boat. Works best on low trajectory objects but there’s also a small hitbox at Games midsection when he flicks out the manhole cover, though if your looking to rid mid to high trajectory objects, the Greenhouse is what your looking for!
Manhole: Ground Defense

Greenhouse [Jab]

Greenhouse delaying Snake's Nikita

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrows (not fully charged), Boomerang
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile (only seeker)
· ZSS: Paralyzer
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut (no lag/disintegrates)
· Pit: Arrows
· PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Missile (Slows momentum/redirects), Dsmash
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Egg Roll
· IC (Ice Climbers): Ice Block (reflects back!)
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Ness: PKT
· Wario: Bike/Bike parts
· TL: Same as link
· Olimar: Pikmin (Creamed!)
· R.O.B: Gyro (not fully charged)
· Fox & Falco: Fire Fox/Fire Bird

Note: Greenhouse, lovely move, just tap the jab on threatening projectiles and you’ve got a cancellation, quick and easy. Cool thing about this guard is that it doesn’t require a constant jab or manhole, some you can just tap to diminish. Tap on single hit projectiles, and constant on multi-hitbox projectiles. The defense can be fairly swift, with negligible lag! Use this regularly against Olimar mains, this tech does wonders against pikmin in chorus with the manhole; switch it up depending on different trajectories.
Greenhouse: Ground Defense

Snapping Turtle [Bair]

FIRaghhh!-Clankclankclankclankclank!!!

· Lucas: PKT, PKF
· Ness: PKT
· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link & TL: Boomerang, Arrow, Bomb (Sweet-spot)
· Samus: Energy Ball (not fully charged), Missile (creams), Ball Bombs
· ZSS: Paralyzer, Armor pieces
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut (cracks)
· Pit: Arrows
· PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Missile (harmlessly deflects), Dsmash
· Peach: Turnips
· Yoshi: Eggs/Egg Roll
· IC: Ice Blocks (reflects/ splits on a sweet-spot)
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Aura Sphere (not fully charged)
· Olimar: Pikmin
· R.O.B: Gyro
· Fox & Falco: Fire Fox/Fire Bird

Note: The turtle works OK, its just more difficult to land against projectiles, but can be useful in the air. Keep in mind this works wonderful against multi-hit/sketchy projectiles with its notorious choppy hitboxes, and since it has little lag on a full hop, you can gracefully turtle dance to approach spamming foes.
Turtle: Mid-to-High Air Defense

Chair [F-tilt]

You know those fights when PKF spammage gets on your last nerve?

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrows, Bombs (Sweet Spot Tip), Boomerang
· Samus: Energy Ball (Uncharged), Missiles
· ZSS: Armor Parts, Paralyer
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanuts
· Pit: Arrows
· PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Missile, Dsmash Mine (Sweet Spot at distance)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg Roll (Egg Shell vanishes/No damage)
· IC: Ice Block (Reflects)
· D3: Waddle Dee
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKF (Repels G&W from fire pillar on impact)
· Wario: Bike/Bike parts
· TL: Arrows, Boomerang
· R.O.B: Gyro (Uncharged)
· Olimar: Pikmin
· Lucas: PKT, PKF

Note: Chair as a secondary resistance is well…descent, but slow. To utilize in combat, your gonna need to know precisely when to pull it out, the tip of the legs must hit the projectile. Good thing about the f-tilt is that different from its regular use, on impact with an object, the lag of performing the technique is cut in half.
Chair: Ground Defense

Head-Butt [Dash Attack]

PKT2? No probahlem, L337!

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrow (Uncharged), Boomerang
· Samus: Seeking Missile
· ZSS: Armor parts, Paralyzer
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut
· Pit: Arrows
· Falco: Fire Bird
· PT: Ivysaur- Razor leaf
Charizard- Rocksmash, Flame Thrower (While Helmet is active)
Squirtle- Shellshifting
· Snake: Missile (Reflects)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg Roll
· IC: Ice Blocks (Reflects)
· Lucario: Aura sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKT2 (sweet spot)
· Wario: Bike Parts
· Olimar: Pikmin
· TL: Boomerang
· R.O.B.: Gyro

Note: Good ol’ hardhat, partially a “plower” for spammers, this move is dirty. It can even cancel or win out a collision with Ness’s PKT2, problem with the head butt is that everything must be timed correctly. And I’m pretty sure its first frames are its most powerful. Helmet is best when you’re ready to make a move, ram through the projectiles on the chart and surprise your opponent with some follow ups. The head butt also cancels some smash attacks, don't be afraid to run into them.

Speaking of running into things. I've been testing out something, quickly tapping forward or backward on the analog and down on the c-stick gives you a regular dash attack. Well I blended fox-trotting and this together, and G&W somewhat slides across the floor with his helmet, so basically he continues to do the helmet and maintains his sliding momentum as you tap analog and c-stick after every dash; a moving defense. Somewhat like combat-walking. PLOW.

Pros:
Good for running through projectiles. Can easily be shuffled between u-smash and shield while maintaining movement, squatting being a useful exception.

Cons:
The only chink in the armor is the short sec where gaw re-enters another dash.

Head-butt: Ground Defense

Chef [Neutral B]

Smowk ze mynes!

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrow, Boomerang
· Samus: Missile, Energy Ball (Uncharged)
· ZSS: Paralyzer
· Diddy: Peanut (Low accuracy full charged)
· Pit: Arrows
· Snake: Missile (Tangles), Mines (Cook'em)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg/Egg roll
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Aura sphere (Uncharged)
· Ness: PKT, PKF
· Wario: Bike (Panspike)/Bike Parts
· Olimar: Pikmin Toss
· Lucas: PKT, PKF

Note: Okay Chef, my research shows that this move is more than just an edge guard; it can do some pretty nifty things against some projectiles. Though a setback is that since the fatty cuisines flip out in random trajectory, there’s no real estimation, the projectile itself has to touch the food, and there’s always a chance it doesn’t, especially if the object is fast.
Chef: Ground-to-Air Defense

Box [F-air]

Zelda: Bucket Full? Eat some Din's!
G&W: O RLY?

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link: Arrow, Bomerang
· Zelda: Dins Fire
· Samus: Missiles, Energy Ball (Uncharged)
· ZSS: Paralyzer, Armor Parts
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut
· Pit: Arrows
· Snake: Missile (randomly reflects), U-smash Grenade Launcher (Creamage)
· Peach: Turnip
· IC: Ice Block (Reflects)
· D3: Waddle Dee’s
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT
· Wario: Bike/Bike parts
· Olimar: Pikmin Toss
· Lucas: PKF, PKT

Note: Box is a good air defense, great for deflecting arrows, missiles, or etc while recovering. It has a policy to pretty much wipe out the things in its trail so I’d say it’s reliable. Different from the turtle is that the package has less hit boxes, so speedy projectiles…I wouldn’t risk it. Just use manhole, greenhouse or turtle. Best for air patrol.
Box: Air Defense

Trumpet [U-air]

Beep-Bleep!

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link & TL: Arrow, Boomerang, Bomb (Air Bazooka)
· Samus: Missiles, Charged Shot (Uncharged)
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut
· Pit: Arrows
· PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf, Charizard: Rock Smash, Flamethrower
· Snake: Grenades (Goodbye!), Grenade Launcher (Hitbox Only), Nikita (Pushes away), Claymore (From Beneath)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg
· D3: Waddle D’s (Flings)
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness & Lucas: PKT, PKT2 (Gimps), PK Fire (Ness- Puffs away pillar)
· Wario: Bike/parts
· R.O.B: Gyro
· Olimar: Pikmin (Blast Off)
· Zelda: Dins Fire (Hitbox only)

Note: Trumpet, this one functions best against single-hit, airborne projectiles; short-hop is lacking. My chart catalogs all the projectiles performed in the air and what up-air shields against. The spot in which objects are canceled can be at two points, G&W’s body, or the wall of fanned air above him. The negation zone forms when he first beeps, so time it accurately. The horn actually floats projectiles, sending them on a high-altitude vertical breeze, with practice you can push bombs, turnips, grenades, etc back up at airborne opponents, just make sure they don’t come tumbling back down on you. So up-air—single-hit projectile defense.
Trumpet: Mid-to-High Altitude Air Defense

Fishbowl [Nair]

PKT2->Fishslap, pwnage.

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link & TL: Arrow, Boomerang
· Samus: Charged Shot (Uncharged), Missiles
· ZSS: Paralyzer
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· G&W: Chef (Pwnage)
· Diddy: Peanut
· Pit: Arrow
· PT: Ivysaur- Razor leaf
· Snake: Nikita (Reflect), Grenade Launcher (Beastly)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg/ Egg Roll (Aim for fish)
· IC: Ice Blocks (Reflects)
· D3: Waddle D’s
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKT2 (Gimpage!- Aim for fish wall), PKF
· Wario: Bike/Bike Parts
· R.O.B: Gyro
· Olimar: Pikmin
· Lucas: PKT, PKF

Note: Nair, our loyal pet fishes, another agile and reliable air defense. SH nair is not very trusty, don’t risk it, you have plenty of ground-bound defenses, not including shield and spot-dodge. But what you wanna use this for is recovering, for example, you know how Snake’s like to camp at the ledge and boast their up-smash, use this, and all those shells are turned into a beautiful shower of scrap metal! Points to aim for when projectiles are flung are at the fountain above the bowl, or the barricade of fish that spout to either side of Game. When daring to block PKT2, keep your distance and make it a habit to block with the fish, execute precisely.
Fishbowl: Air Defense

Scuba Helmet [Up-smash]

WTF? You no flee?!

· Mario & Luigi: Fireball
· Link & TL: Arrow, Boomerang
· Samus: Everything
· ZSS: Paralyzer (incaccurate)
· Pikachu: Thunderbolt
· Diddy: Peanut
· Pit: Arrow
· PT: Ivysaur- Razor Leaf, Charizard- Rock Smash
· Snake: Grenade (Reflect/Inaccurate), Nikita (Reflects/Explodes with recoil when charged)
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg/Egg Roll
· IC: Ice Block (Disintegrates/Reflects if charged)
· D3: Waddle D’s
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKT2 (!)
· Wario: Bike/Bike Parts
· R.O.B: Gyro’s (Lobs in the air when charged)
· Olimar: Pikmin (Kills)
· Lucas: PKT, PKT2
· Fox: Fire Fox
· Falco: Fire Bird
· Wolf: Wolf Flash
· DK: Giant Punch
· Captain Falcon: Falcon Punch

Note: Powerhouse helmet for the win, u-smash has some bulk to its drive, when you’re up against killer attacks, this is your best friend, or you can just shield and risk getting knocked-out cold. But before you go whacking your cap around, master its timing, do this and you’ll smack the sense out of one-hit-wonders with a capital “S”, while also leaving your enemy sh***ing themselves in disbelief. It surprised me that this move could stop Charged Shots, Aura Spheres, and even PKT2! A drawback is of course its slow start-up, and you have to know that your enemies about to let loose to time it exactly; you wanna thrust at the tip or face of the helmet for best results. Oh and, about staling this move, if you use uair frequently, this can freshen up your salad of attacks, and strengthen your defense/offense power--keep this in mind.
Scuba Helmet: Ground Defense

Key [Dair]

Key cracking through Snake's usmash spam!

· Fox, Falco & Wolf: Firefox
· Mario: F.L.U.D.D (No push-back), Fireball, Up-B (Sweet spot)
· Link & TL: Arrow, Boomerang
· Samus: Charge Shot (Fully Charged), Missiles
· Pikachu: Thunder Jolt
· Luigi: Fireball
· Diddy Kong: Peanut
· Zelda: Dins Fire
· Pit: Arrow
· PT: Charizard- Rock Smash (Semi-sweet spot), Flamethrower (While Key active)
Squirtle- Hydro Pump (No Push-back)
Ivysaur- Razorleaf
· Snake: Nikita (Vertical Deflect), Mortar (Beautiful!), Dsmash Mine
· Peach: Turnip
· Yoshi: Egg Toss/Roll
· IC: Ice Block
· D3: Waddle D’s, Waddle Doo’s, Gordo (Skids over)
· Lucario: Aura Sphere
· Ness: PKT, PKT2
· Bowser: Fire Breath (While Key active)
· Wario: Bike/Parts
· Olimar: Pikmin, Usmash (!)
· Lucas: PKT

Note: Keys a very uber aerial to mid-aerial defense, it cracks through attacks hurled from under you and demolishes most up-b recoveries, upping the knowledge of G&W’s high altitude recovery. Dair has a strange effect on attacks that shoot constant streams, such as F.L.U.D.D, Hydro Pump, and the salvo from Corneria’s head turret, it acts like a pole-vault as Game & Watch balances along the flow of fire, taking no knock back or damage percentage! When you want to do this, make sure to slow key for the best effect, especially if your off stage.
Key: Low-Mid-High Air Defense

________________________________________________

UNORTHODOXED

Squatting [Down Analog]

Sneaky little b@st*rd!

Description: Possibly one of the most miscellaneous and underestimated techniques in GaW’s defensive repertoire. Simple, Game has a wacky low clearance when he squats (down on the analog), and is nearly flat on the surface. I’m not going to expand on this, because it would be uncalled for, the thing is, he is able to hunker down low enough for some projectiles to safely dart above him, which would lessen some spam game from characters.

o Fox & Falco: Blaster
o ZSS: Paralyzer
o Samus: Non-seeking Missile, Charge Shot (not completely charged)
o Sheik: Needle Storm
o Pit: Arrows
o Lucario: Aura Sphere (not completely charged)
o R.O.B: Robo Beam
o Link: Charged Arrow
o TL: Boomerang, Charged Arrow
o PT: Ivysaur- Razorleaf

Note: This can be used on a few other techniques (weapons, etc), but it all depends on the situation.
Squatting: Low Ground Defense

Oil Slicking/Spilling/Gelling

How to Perform: Go up to a proxy mine as G&W, and pull out the bucket (down b).
Effect: Snakes claymore automatically detonates (GaW remains safe)! Its as if the bucket sends out a shock wave of some sort, or spills an invisible oil slick over the space (like the classic Flat Zone?). The distance it works is just about the size of the gas splash from Oil Panic, which is like a G&W and a half. This probably has some similarities to all the other weird occurrences with Snake's dsmash, such as the Perma-explosion. Oil Slicking could probably prove useful against countering Snake's other weapons' medley.
Note: This can be performed in the air and still works under a platform.
Bucket Slicking: Ground Defense

Firemen [Up-B]

Spring Bombs!
TL: OSHI!

o Mario: Fireball
o Link: Bombs (Trampoline bounces up, skull destroys)
o Samus: Missile, Energy Ball
o Pikachu: Thunderbolt
o Diddy: Peanut
o Zelda: Dins Fire (Sorta sweet spot)
o Pit: Arrows
o PT: Ivysaur- Razor Leaf
o Snake: Grenade (Redirects), Grenade Launcher
o Peach: Turnip
o Yoshi: Egg/ Egg Roll
o IC: Ice Block
o D3: Waddle Dee’s, Body Slam (Gimps)
o Lucario: Aura Sphere
o Ness: PKT (cancels/ firemen bounces it away)
o Wario: Bike/ Bike Parts
o TL: arrow, Bomb, Boomerang
o R.O.B: Gyro
o Olimar: Pikmin Toss

Note:
1. Oh lordie. This move is awesome; I’m sure your thinking what I’m referring to in the list. Well while testing it out, I noticed that when performing up-b, gaws head becomes somewhat like a buffer, it has priorities. Most of the projectiles I tested where performed in the air, Game either cancels it out like a shock absorber, or spouts through them. And while performed on the ground, the object passes through the firemen while Game bounces into the air. It has been confirmed that the initial animation (when first appearing on the trampoline) has an invincible frame, while the up-b hitbox has blue-ribbon canceling potential. In my opinion, it can be best used for escaping bad situation, plus it slightly pushes foes/objects with a mass away when close enough.
Firemen: Low-Mid-High Air Defense/Ground Evasion

2. Norfair Defense- Turns out this maneuver has yet another new defense, still incomplete. When in the parachute animation on the stage Norfair, G&W seems to phase through the huge lava tide, and the magma spew; which makes the battle to the emergency hatch no longer a priority. Utilize this as much as you can on this particular stage and you'll win yourself a trip home without nasty burns on your flat posterior!

Cons-

Maneuver is difficult to execute in Wifi, there seems to be a small time frame where you can be affected. It is probably smarter to run for the hatch, unless your being blocked.
· Credit: Mr. Escalator, thanks a lot!

CREDIT
· Mr. Escalator for pictures and discovery!

________________________________________________

rabbt · May 15, 2008

Stop making up names. Greenhouse?

doodmahn · May 15, 2008

rabbt said:
Stop making up names. Greenhouse?

That's the official name for G&W's jab (neutral A).

Mr. Escalator · May 15, 2008

Are you kidding?
Greenhouse is his Jab attack. That's the name of the move.
He didnt make up any names

Good list Neb, though I've told you a lot already!

Neb · May 15, 2008

lol at rabbt, I hope you were being sarcastic.

@Mr. Esc.
Yeah you have, and thanks again, I'm just trying to spread the word.

Mr. Escalator · May 16, 2008

We need a resource thread linking to all these helpful threads.
Like to my bucket guide (if it never gets stickied, it might not, but Im aiming to make it good enough to)
and to this.

maybe just Omega's guide having a resource section would be good enough

Neb · May 16, 2008

Yeah, I agree. Just a bonus section at the end, linking to others projects and studies. The thing is, people still seem to be oblivious to there being a guide. But yeah, we should definitely ask him, the links would better expand on the things in the guide.

A2ZOMG · May 16, 2008

I really like using the Dash attack and F-tilt to block projectiles too.

Lag · May 17, 2008

thanks for the info.

Neb · May 17, 2008

@Lag
Np, if you have any questions, shoot.

@A2ZOMG
Cool, I'll have to look into it. How effective is it in combat?

Deleted member · May 17, 2008

I find crouching down one of the best ways to avoid projectiles. If they change it up you can always down-b also (because you are already entering the down command).

ytv · May 17, 2008

Interesting, good work on this. I would also love to see some objects blocked with f-tilt. None the less though good work on this Neb.

Neb · May 17, 2008

@ DNA
Yeah! I added that yesterday, a lot of people just look at the techniques and not the characters stature and their capabilities. If they mix it up, you can also d-tilt or jab block, or even fling up with an up-b, just for surprise. Make 'em come to you.

@ytv
Thanks, and I'll be studying the f-tilt later today. Might make another list too. I hear dash attack works to, probably best as a plower.

Mr. Escalator · May 17, 2008

Can you really duck Wolf's Blaster? o___O
I remember me trying to duck it, and it still being big enough to hit me.
Though I may be wrong.

This would help a lot once I fill my bucket and they decide to spam :D

Neb · May 17, 2008

Agh, sorry about that, no you can't, nothing can really cancel it out, its a pretty cream of the crop spam. All you can do is spot-dodge, power shield, or regular shield, which isn't to hard seeing as though it has slow trajectory. Thanks for correcting me.

Mr. Escalator · May 17, 2008

yeah, it's just really hard to deal with on Battlefield, so I was hoping ducking it would work

Ah well.
Shielding will have to do.

I'm curious about the dash attack myself.
And which moves actually destroy nikita (Snake's missile)?
A lot just deflect it.
I know the Nine hammer blows it to smithereens, as used on wifi, but I dunno if he has a quick, reliable way of blowing it up.

and this is really interesting that G&W has so many moves to deal with projectiles.
It's quite cool :D

A2ZOMG · May 17, 2008

Neb said:
@A2ZOMG
Cool, I'll have to look into it. How effective is it in combat?

I dunno really since I don't play too much, I'm throwing it out there because I've canceled a number projectiles with those two attacks. Considering their huge priority and great duration, I don't see why you wouldn't block projectiles with those two attacks since they are easy to time.

So yeah, I'm just suggesting you try it out lol.

Banjodorf · May 17, 2008

rabbt said:
Stop making up names. Greenhouse?

Yeah....someone didnt know the moves actually have names...

Anyway, Chef (neutral B) is also a good projectile defense, easily blocking D3's waddles, and the nikita, and snake's grenades

As well as detonating the mine.

Among other things

daytimeninja · May 17, 2008

Very nice guide Neb....

Neb · May 17, 2008

@gannondorf4ever
Yeah I know, I was going to mention that. But yeah, Chef works pretty well against Snake. Thanks for the heads-up though, that'll probably be the next list I do, people tend to only use it for edge-guarding.

@A2ZOMG
Ok. I'll have to study it, thanks!

@Mr. Esc
Mhm, he can actually be a pretty defensive character. But about the nikita, as far as my experiments go, nothing can really destroys it, the torch can blow it up, but right in your face, same for u-smash! Even so, f-smash can burst it at a sweet spot at the tip of the flare, also has to be semi-charged.

The best alternative out of the defenses so far is squatting, and tossing Chef. Pan is good because if the missile hits one food, its knocked off-course, plus this works well for Snakes who steer skillfully because the nikita gets tangled in the assortments.

@Day
Thanks, man. ^_^b

TJL · May 18, 2008

This is great, i was wondering about this the other day, i'm glad somebody put this together.

Neb · May 18, 2008

Updates...
· Head-butt
· Chef
· Box
· Firemen

mr_kennedy44 · May 19, 2008

Very nice list Neb. I didn't know that G&W had so many ways to deflect projectiles.

Neb · May 19, 2008

mr_kennedy44 said:
Very nice list Neb. I didn't know that G&W had so many ways to deflect projectiles.

Thank you,

. And yeah, a lot of people didn't know, I think the defensive/evasiveness of the firemen is going to be big. But anyway if you have any questions, just ask away.

Taylor · May 20, 2008

Great guide. The headbutt section made me laugh.

My friends and I have always called Fair the Credit Card, though. >_>

Dizzynecro · May 20, 2008

turtle nulls lucas pk fire too.

Neb · May 20, 2008

Taylor said:
Great guide. The head butt section made me laugh.

My friends and I have always called Fair the Credit Card, though. >_>

Lol, thank you.
Well each of gaws moves come from one of his games, and its been confirmed as a box/package.

R.I.P: Credit Card Phenomenon...sorry.

@Dizzynecro
Thanks for the correction, wanna keep the charts as accurate as possible.

Mr. Escalator · May 24, 2008

Just tested and just in!
The Parachute is amazing!
I'm not talking about the upB invincibility frames,
I'm talking about the aftereffect, the parachute!

I'll let you in on it.
On Norfair, when you're in the parachute animation, you CANNOT be hurt by the ginat lava wave, and you CANNOT be hurt by the lava plaumes.

I think you should note this, as it is a good defense xP
It also seemed to avoid Fox's upB's fiery sparks more than you would normally,
and It appeared that the firefox missed completely on what would be a solid hit.
I unno. Maybe it has something to do with how the parachute moves back and forward.

I tested on other hazards, and Norfair seems to be the only hazards that are parachute phased.

:D

Neb · May 24, 2008

Sweet!
Nice fined, I knew something was odd about the parachute. But this is definitely good information to put in the guide. On the fire fox move, I couldn't replicate what you said, it still buffeted G&W on impact. Yet still, thanks for the contribution!

Neb · May 24, 2008

Updates
· Up-air
· Norfair Parachute Discovery [Input: Mr. Esc]

napZzz · May 25, 2008

IMO-

I dont know why you should try to do all this projectile defense stuff. You have something called a shield. When you use it, things dont hit you! And when you powershield you take no knockback and the projectile is gone! cept for explosives, which attacking to get rid of is a stupid idea since they will blow up G&W has the bucket for energy based moves anyways. All this does is stale your attack moves. Its just..pointless.

Neb · May 25, 2008

Ok, if you've got nothing nice to say, stay on Snake forums, all you've been complaining about is how Snake can beat G&W, etc, etc. This is pseudo-projectile-defense, its to better defend yourself against spammers, which would otherwise have you falling into your foes plans with stalling and the whole bit. I don't recall you being able to to stop pkt2, land mines, etc with a shield. If your options such as--shield & bucket are taken, this is your back-up.

Plus about your explosive banter; G&W detonates snakes u-smash, Samus's missiles and much more with box and turtle; he doesn't take any recoil. And with these "pointless studies", we've found out gaw has invincible frames, not many people knew that, its a great defense to avoid. Lol, you think every thing's about snake, think about pikmin, they still latch on in shield animation, with dtilt and jab, their flung away before impact and a full charge attack from Olimar is canceled. And lets not begin to talk about what up-air does to thrown projectiles.

napZzz · May 25, 2008

look how it says imo in the top of my post, that means in my opinion. I'm just trying to say what I think about this guide and some things about it. The uair with projectiles is kinda good but powershielding should be your response to everything coming at you. And stfu, I did'nt even say anything about snake when I just posted. I got into an argument with someone in a thread about MATCHUPS because snake is a big counter to g&w and I was trying to help out against him. you are so dumb. and then the olimar thing was the only other thing worth mentioning. But using your moves for everything coming at you just is'nt smart. Your shield is alot faster than most of your attacks. Its just kind of.....pointless. But those few things like invincibility might be important I guess. But those few things dont deserve to go with a full thread of not very useful strategies that probably should'nt be learned for the most part. Have fun facing a spammy toon link and trying to do your projectile defense neb.

Neb · May 25, 2008

Your missing the whole point. It is a back-up defense, and approach. You can't shield in the air, and the shield only last for so long. I'm not saying that you use these techniques for every projectile approach, it doesn't say that anywhere in the guide. The charts are for those who are interested, period. Everyone has a different style, and this works efficiently for me, in certain situations. Your not just going to continue to shield TL spam until it breaks, and your unconscious, you need to make a move, or make them come to you.

napZzz · May 25, 2008

Neb said:
Your missing the whole point. It is a back-up defense, and approach. You can't shield in the air, and the shield only last for so long. I'm not saying that you use these techniques for every projectile approach, it doesn't say that anywhere in the guide. The charts are for those who are interested, period. Everyone has a different style, and this works efficiently for me, in certain situations. Your not just going to continue to shield TL spam until it breaks, and your unconscious, you need to make a move, or make them come to you.

You dont have a shield in the air because you can air dodge idiot. And powershielding ensures your shield not going away as fast. And if your shield goes low you can just spot dodge too. And why the hell would you play "defensively" with g&w. He's supposed to be a character who can approach and put on damage fast and then kill, not sit back and hit projectiles away. The only characters that can really play defensively are ones that can camp with alot of projectiles. Why the **** would you do something like hit away a fully charged aura sphere or samus's energy shot when you can ****ing bucket it? Play g&w wrong if you want to thats ok. I cant stop you from playing a character wrong I guess.

Neb · May 25, 2008

Omg, lol. I've said this about three times, it is a back-up if the bucket is full. And you can only air dodge in succession after a short pause. Its pointless arguing with you because your not taking anything I'm saying. I'm not even arguing with you, lol, your arguing at me. Just because your an offensive character, doesn't mean your not suppose to be defensive, once again, everyone has their own style. Matter of fact, why would you play defensively, you ask? For Christ sake G&W is light weight!

Oh and the bold, underline, etc, is to get the point across since your clearly taking pieces of my replies and twisting things around. I never said you just sit there whacking projectiles away. You make it seem like shield never runs out, or the bucket never gets full.

Crizthakidd · May 25, 2008

how bad is g&w really vs these projectiles. can they camp him or him doing these moves really cancel them out and let him approuch viably?

Mr. Escalator · May 25, 2008

Lol Nappy, shut up. It's a resource guide. Its there for people who wish to know some of the properties of these attacks or for reference. It's not telling you that you have to use this everytime a TL arrow spams you. It's the readers decision whether they want to work this info into their game.

This actually helped me vs a peach. Not like I cant beat a peach normally, but it was cool. She was doing her typical turnip barrage, and I got bored of approaching with the turtle (cancels it out) So I just started dtilting randomely. The turnips would go by and it beat out most of her stuff. She got frustrated and jumped over me to throw a turnip down, and she ate a nair.

I did the same thing later, but with the jabs. She did a glide toss, I cancelled outthe turnip, and she got stuck in the greenhouse.

It's fun stuff.

But seriously, you don't need to start arguments every where you go.

Neb · May 26, 2008

Crizthakidd said:
how bad is g&w really vs these projectiles. can they camp him or him doing these moves really cancel them out and let him approuch viably?

He's not bad against them, if your good at shielding and spot-dodging, its just jumping around, while also trying to approach is risky; it really depends on the projectiles your up against. These cancels pop the projectile, and cancel them on the spot, and yes, these can be used to "make a move". Different projectiles sometimes have different effects.

@Ms. Esc
Lol at Peach eating nair fish.
Well I'm glad someone found it useful. If your reply doesn't work, I give up debating with this guy. -_-

Mr. Escalator · May 26, 2008

This guide help shows how broken Turtle is at approaching. It breaks up projectiles.
And Neb, something seems off with the parachute defense that you might need to test.
It works in the training room, and it works in normal play, but I was on Norfair in a wifi match and it didnt come through :[

So you might want to mention it doesnt work on wifi to your knowledge.

Suggestion:

Find out what the Nair stops. Maybe over head bombs?
I would be interested in this.
It may not be the best of the moves, but maybe its worth noting if you find the time.

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