Wave Dodge?

ihatemybrother · May 17, 2008

Ok, I figured out how to do this, its essentially the same as peach's dtilt cancel. You don't have to dodge out of it, you can just attack.

Heres some the vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxiwNshcKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu43KX5ckGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewpkwZOM7C8

DanGR · May 17, 2008

Yay! first post in the biggest discovery in the game! Nice find.

Rigor Mortis · May 17, 2008

hands down this can be recreated, just wait a lil while for the gods of smash to answer ;D, ill try myself..

Ratherion · May 17, 2008

*TEST*

10char

KonoK · May 17, 2008

What the? Maybe you have to spot dodge and then rotate your stick?
Will this be more useful than wavedashing?

Ratherion · May 17, 2008

KonoK said:
What the? Maybe you have to spot dodge and then rotate your stick?
Will this be more useful than wavedashing?

If you could repeat it? Maybe, you'd be invinceable, but you wouldn't be able to cancel the spot dodge.

momochuu · May 17, 2008

Oh no...*Cries*

KonoK · May 17, 2008

Wait, before I try this out, did you have any specific controller settings?

Neb · May 17, 2008

>>
Kinda hope someone can recreate this movement. But then again, I hope it doesn't ruin a brand new game.

WoodyWiggins · May 17, 2008

Nice! It looks mighty helpful . . . but we don't know how to do it

bacun · May 17, 2008

lol, venerable.

this could be huge.

kupo15 · May 17, 2008

very cool. Even though us Pits have our version of wavedashing, I would like to figure this out to add to it. I hope it isn't because of online.

cAm8ooo · May 17, 2008

Wow, good find. Hopefully someone can recreate it soon

ihatemybrother · May 17, 2008

Ok, I use the classic controller with these settings(I know, I'm weird): L=grab
R=Jump
ZL=Shield
ZR= Jump
X= Jump
Y=Special
A=Grab
B=Attack
Right stick= Smash
The directional pad= taunt
Control Stick= Movement
Tap Jump= Off

I am 33 percent done with Supspace Emissary. Power Count of 76. Vs play time: 69:32
Vs Play match Total: 1382
Matches spectated: 2
Time match Total: 29
Stock Match Total: 1081
I have played ZERO coin matches
I have all stages but electro-plankton.
That is just about all that should make this possible.

Lol, but seriously, those are my real control configurations.

otg · May 17, 2008

Oh super. More defensive advanced tech that will just create more incentive for camping and defensive play. Let's hope this was a one time fluke.

KonoK · May 17, 2008

I don't know if this is right or not, but when I tried to recreate this, something wierd happened.
You don't have to believe me, but something like this happened.
I thought that Mario's F-tilt made the sliding thing, so I kept on F-tilting and spot dodging. By accident, I used Mario's down smash, and he slid back a bit. Maybe my eyes are broken or something, because I can't do it again.

Catmurderer · May 17, 2008

Well, if B moves can affect momentum... then maybe smashes/tilts can too. Are there any IASA frames on Mario's f-tilt? (Ie: F-tilt causes backwards momentum which is quickly canceled into the spotdodge that causes Mario to slide)

Amarkov · May 17, 2008

I suspect this is similar to Peach's dtilt cancelling. I haven't tried cancelling it into a spot dodge, but this effect is what should happen if you did.

It'd be nice if this is just a replacement wavedash, though. I certainly can't find any IASA frames in the tilt.

2.72 · May 17, 2008

I think that I have some idea why and how this happened. I could be totally wrong and way off base, but here we go.

We have seen several techniques that all stemmed from the same basic mechanism: Snake's sliding usmash, glide tossing, Diddy's rising up-b, and probably more. In each case, the character does something (a dash attack for Snake, a roll for the glide toss, and a jump for Diddy), then immediately cancels that with another move (a usmash for Snake, a toss, or an up-b for Diddy), but they maintain the momentum of the first move.

In short, the bug appears to be that you can cancel a move (or just some sorts of moves) if you input another move right afterwards, but it doesn't cancel the momentum of the first move. In this case, I would bet that you rolled, then immediately spot dodged. To reproduce this, I would hold shield, then roll by pushing the control stick down (a bit) and to the side, then rotate it down as fast as possible.

This looks like it could be big. If this pattern continues, we could potentially see a lot of move-canceling tricks. I've tried out a few with Snake, but to no avail. For an example, I've tried to cancel his dash attack into a grab or a shield, but neither has worked so far. Likewise, I've tried to cancel a roll into a grab (which is the exact same mechanism as glide tossing, except without an item in your hand), and couldn't get that to work. I haven't found any real pattern in which moves can be canceled, and what they can be canceled with.

Anyway, this is a nice find, and it could be really big indeed if it is significantly superior to a roll. It looks like it has much less lag on the end, so it probably will be.

Earthbound360 · May 17, 2008

Amazing find. Hopefully we can learn to master this and put it to great use.

momochuu · May 17, 2008

Why can't people play the game without trying to slide all over the place? ;-;

red stone · May 17, 2008

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
Why can't people play the game without trying to slide all over the place? ;-;

because they took away our wavedashing. we must atone for their sins

momochuu · May 17, 2008

LIES!

You guys are the sinners for reviving the dead!

ytv · May 17, 2008

Hmm.. Very interesting nice find, hopefully someone can recreate this.

cAm8ooo · May 17, 2008

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
LIES!

You guys are the sinners for reviving the dead!

From your comments I'm guessing your the kind of guy who likes his share of hammers and bombs as well. Whats wrong with a little wavedashing?

ph00tbag · May 17, 2008

It's possible that Mario's ftilt has IASA frames, and you spotdodged during those frames, picking up the momentum of the end of ftilt.

Maybe.

momochuu · May 17, 2008

cAm8ooo said:
From your comments I'm guessing your the kind of guy who likes his share of hammers and bombs as well. Whats wrong with a little wavedashing?

Guy? Eh, anyway...I liked Brawl a little more when people weren't sliding (Sheik's Slide UpSmash/Snake's Slide Mortar). I really don't care as long as the sliding isn't on the level of Wavedashing. o.o;;

cAm8ooo · May 17, 2008

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
Guy? Eh, anyway...I liked Brawl a little more when people weren't sliding (Sheik's Slide UpSmash/Snake's Slide Mortar). I really don't care as long as the sliding isn't on the level of Wavedashing. o.o;;

Lol i thought u had a little too much pink for a guy. My apologies

momochuu · May 17, 2008

Lol. It's fine.

*Goes back to being angry at the sliding*

=3

Ratherion · May 17, 2008

Watch Nintendo be random, on your millionth brawl, they add Wavedashing back in, but take it out after that. XD

Vro · May 17, 2008

I agree with 2.72. The way momentum carries thru so many things and our limited knowledge of what can be canceled into what, we have a lot of exploring to do. Good find, and thanks for posting the vid.

Now to recreate.

Neb · May 17, 2008

Ratherion said:
Watch Nintendo be random, on your millionth brawl, they add Wavedashing back in, but take it out after that. XD

lolol. Just to piss us off...
><

Ørion · May 17, 2008

Ratherion said:
Watch Nintendo be random, on your millionth brawl, they add Wavedashing back in, but take it out after that. XD

Lol QFT.

Anway, that could be huge if we could recreate it (Hopefully wavedashing has not died).

SunriseW12 · May 17, 2008

2.72 said:
I think that I have some idea why and how this happened. I could be totally wrong and way off base, but here we go.

We have seen several techniques that all stemmed from the same basic mechanism: Snake's sliding usmash, glide tossing, Diddy's rising up-b, and probably more. In each case, the character does something (a dash attack for Snake, a roll for the glide toss, and a jump for Diddy), then immediately cancels that with another move (a usmash for Snake, a toss, or an up-b for Diddy), but they maintain the momentum of the first move.

In short, the bug appears to be that you can cancel a move (or just some sorts of moves) if you input another move right afterwards, but it doesn't cancel the momentum of the first move. In this case, I would bet that you rolled, then immediately spot dodged. To reproduce this, I would hold shield, then roll by pushing the control stick down (a bit) and to the side, then rotate it down as fast as possible.

This looks like it could be big. If this pattern continues, we could potentially see a lot of move-canceling tricks. I've tried out a few with Snake, but to no avail. For an example, I've tried to cancel his dash attack into a grab or a shield, but neither has worked so far. Likewise, I've tried to cancel a roll into a grab (which is the exact same mechanism as glide tossing, except without an item in your hand), and couldn't get that to work. I haven't found any real pattern in which moves can be canceled, and what they can be canceled with.

Anyway, this is a nice find, and it could be really big indeed if it is significantly superior to a roll. It looks like it has much less lag on the end, so it probably will be.

I think you may be right about the move-cancelling thing. But why does it only happen with certain moves/actions? What is so great about snake/falco/wario's usmashes that gives them the ability to cancel dash attacks?

ihatemybrother · May 17, 2008

Ratherion said:
Watch Nintendo be random, on your millionth brawl, they add Wavedashing back in, but take it out after that. XD

You just scared the absolute **** out of me. Last night, I had a dream that I unlocked a new option in Special Option mode, the two things said "with wavedashing" and "without wavedashing"
Then i played, tried to WD with Luigi and didn't go very far.

Premonition anyone?

Anyway, I have recreated this multiple times. I just went into training mode, with Mario, and did a dash-to dash durn around to IASA tilt to IASA spotdodge?
I'll post the video soon.

WoodyWiggins · May 17, 2008

A w e s o m e !

SamuraiPanda · May 17, 2008

I know some people have already said something similar, but I'll put my input in as well: this looks like it could be the effect of Mario's ftilt having momentum backwards (as he was putting his foot back), and that momentum stayed even when you spotdodged.

Meaning that someone needs to go try to buffer a spotdodge after Mario's ftilt. And if it you're able to do it in training mode, but there isn't any slide, then try it again in regular versus mode (training mode is weird like that sometimes).

Vro · May 17, 2008

ihatemybrother said:
Anyway, I have recreated this multiple times. I just went into training mode, with Mario, and did a dash-to dash durn around to IASA tilt to IASA spotdodge?
I'll post the video soon.

I don't believe you're using the term IASA correct. Interruptible As Soon As is a common prelude to frame data. IASA frames are frames that permit any other inputs while still in an animation. I believe you're just trying to say instant tilt, as dashes don't have IASA frames, nor spotdodging.

Also, the scenario you explained doesn't sound amazing. Just slightly surprising you were able to do a turnaround tilt quickly, everything else is completely normal.

Ratherion · May 17, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
I know some people have already said something similar, but I'll put my input in as well: this looks like it could be the effect of Mario's ftilt having momentum backwards (as he was putting his foot back), and that momentum stayed even when you spotdodged.

Meaning that someone needs to go try to buffer a spotdodge after Mario's ftilt. And if it you're able to do it in training mode, but there isn't any slide, then try it again in regular versus mode (training mode is weird like that sometimes).

Zilch in training mode, just FYI.

ihatemybrother · May 17, 2008

Ratherion said:
Zilch in training mode, just FYI.

LIES!
It works in Training. Here is the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewpkwZOM7C8

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