Help against good G&Ws

...I realized I need some after competing in a high-skill level KC tournament yesterday.

After taking first in my pool, almost undefeated, and qualifying for the double elimination singles bracket, it went a little something like this:

1st Round: 2-0 win against ROB
2nd Round: 0-2 loss against G&W
3rd Round: 2-0 win against Marth
4th Round: 2-1 win against Falco
5th Round: 0-2 loss against G&W

Any advice?

Take advantage of his slow roll and pray to god he doesn't Fsmash you. Also Try not to get grabbed. Best thing I would suggest is make yourself unpredictable, like you should already be doing, and shuttle loop.

his recovery should be shuttleloop'd

Dsmash before he gets off any of his stupid stuff. Run away from turtles.

i would like to hear what some of the other players have to say on this... i have trouble with him too.

There are a couple of things that I have found, though... but i just want to say that I dont consider myself an elite player, so others could probably give better advice.

Heres what I have found that seems to work. Anyone should feel free to comment or correct me if im wrong.

1) His backair is rediculous, and has high priority. However, since it is a back air it is a little more predictable (he has to be facing away to do it), and if you are watching for it you wont get hit with it as much. If he is using it alot, you can use a tornado to go right through it, or try to shieldgrab it (but keep in mind its multiple hits... gotta wait for them to finish or youll get hit with the last hits)

2) His downair is also rediculous, and will knock you out of your tornado if he hits you in the center with it. Any time he does it and youre using the tornado, make sure he hits you in the upper side part. not the center. That way hell just get sucked in. Also, he has little/no ending lag after the Dair, and can smash or tilt directly after landing. This means you have to have perfect timing if you want to punish the move. (think of it like MK's glide attack... you CAN get punished after, but most of the time your opponent rushes in just to get downsmashed) Alot of g&w players seem to bait you into punishing the move, then smash you in the face when you move in for the kill. Watch out for this. If you cant get the timing right, it might be better to avoid it.

3) I have found it beneficial to be a bit more cautious when playing game n watch. He has no projectiles other than his frying pan (which is easily avoided... also, you can often sneak under them and ftilt him while hes doing it, or drill rush right when he starts it up, it will often make it through), and he cant really force you to be the aggressor, all the time. DO NOT run in and try to punish his Fsmash... He will just keep spamming it, and you will run in and get blazed up. Pick your shots, and bait him into making mistakes. Try to maintain pressure without going ape****.

4) I have noticed that he will often drop below the stage before using his up b to land on the stage. That is the moment to shuttle loop (you can often hit them without leaving the stage). Mix it up with dair and fair gimp attacks so he doesnt know which one to expect. I have had little success with the off-stage gimping, though (unless you count shuttle loop)... he often uses that thing that pushes you upwards and I end up waaaay above the stage.

Again, Im not amazing, especially against g&w, but i do play quite a bit and these are a few of the things that have worked for me. Hopefully some of it helps.

ckm said:

1) His backair is rediculous, and has high priority. However, since it is a back air it is a little more predictable (he has to be facing away to do it), and if you are watching for it you wont get hit with it as much. If he is using it alot, you can use a tornado to go right through it, or try to shieldgrab it (but keep in mind its multiple hits... gotta wait for them to finish or youll get hit with the last hits)

2) His downair is also rediculous, and will knock you out of your tornado if he hits you in the center with it. Any time he does it and youre using the tornado, make sure he hits you in the upper side part. not the center. That way hell just get sucked in. Also, he has little/no ending lag after the Dair, and can smash or tilt directly after landing. This means you have to have perfect timing if you want to punish the move. (think of it like MK's glide attack... you CAN get punished after, but most of the time your opponent rushes in just to get downsmashed) Alot of g&w players seem to bait you into punishing the move, then smash you in the face when you move in for the kill. Watch out for this. If you cant get the timing right, it might be better to avoid it.

Click to expand...

1) Personally, I rather Tornado through then shieldgrab, because I feel I might lose count as to how many of the multiple hits it connected. But yeah, either one of those is good against his Bair

2)IMO, I can see G&W using the Dair oh either when he's trying to get to the stage floor fast enough, or doing that and damaging you at the same time. At the certain height, he can auto-cancel the lag and quickly attack with a Dsmash or Dtilt. You want to give him some space when he does that. As soon as he hit the ground, try and do a short hop Fair. Or if he's on the platform, hit him with a nair.

Ckm said majority of the stuff I was gonna say, but I'll still add some more stuff

If you see him try to Up smash you and miss, don't punish right away. He'll mindgame you into a Fsmash. The lag for his Up smash is quick, so a quick counter attack with his Fsmash or Dsmash (mainly Fsmash) would mostly likely get ya. You could make it seem like you're gonna punish his missed Upsmash, but as soon as you rush, stop yourself just a few steps away from him with a short hop. At the time, he'll think you're punishing him and will automatically Fsmash/Dsmash, so as soon as the move is done, rush in with a grab or a Dtilt then grab. or even a Fair