~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

The Olimar Matchup Thread!

Disclaimer: Never underestimate your opponent based on what character they're using. Any character can be a threat in the right hands. Also! This thread not only reflects my opinions on the matchups, but most importantly, it also reflects the Olimar community's opinion and all who contributed as well.​

#1-Link
#2-Wario
#3-Pikachu
#4-R.O.B.
#5-Marth
#6-Falco
#7-Kirby
#8-Pit
#9-Zamus
#10-Metaknight
#11-Toon Link
#12-Peach
#13-Yoshi
#14-Wolf
#15-Mr. Game & Watch
#16-Snake
#17-Luigi
#18-Diddy Kong
#19-Donkey Kong
#20-Kind Dedede
#21-Ice Climbers
#22-Sonic
#23-Lucario
#24-Jigglypuff​

• Behaviour : Link has some good projectiles. He’ll be trying to use his boomerang and arrows to camp from afar until he realizes that he is the one who has to approach. Normally, he has a great spacing attack in zair, but Olimar is short and so it can be difficult for Links to use it well. He's got some good killing options in dair, fsmash, and dsmash.

• His scaring moves :
-Fsmash: It has good range, great power, and low start-up lag, but enough after lag to keep its use at a minimum. The smarter Link players won't use the second portion of the fsmash if it hits your shield. So if you've got time, shieldgrab the first hit.

-Upsmash : Link's DACUS (dash attack canceled upsmash) moves him farther than average. It can be a good killing move at high percents, but it's very punishable upon block and doesn't have a lot of setups, and so Link players use it very situationally. It might be used just after a hit zair, or maybe an uptilt at low percents. It has three hits, so just shield all three and punish with your best option.

-Bombs: Just be sure to know what all he can do with the bombs. For example, he can attack with smashes while holding a bomb. He has a lot of gimmicky tricks he'll use. Here’s a link to a video showing some of these techniques: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=V0u3sUOShcI At 5:42 it shows some of his bomb tricks. I recommend watching the whole video. When you latch a pikmin onto Link when he's a got a bomb in hand, he can't throw it or he'll explode. The pikmin will die if it's not red, but Link will get hurt.

-Arrows: Pikmin will stop them when thrown, shoved out via smash attack, or when they're walking back to you after being used. Just before link lands, he can fire an arrow that won't have it's normal lag frames. It speeds up the animation of his Hero’s bow, similar to Falco's lagless landing lasers. They might use it to try and gimp your recovery, so if he's not edgeguarding with the boomerang or bombs, expect to see some arrows.

-Dair: It's a powerful killing option, but it's very hard to land on an Olimar that watches out for it. Your upair will beat it out and it's not very difficult to avoid. I've seen it used a couple times to punish staying on the ledge for too long. It has considerable lag though, so if he uses it and misses, throw a pikmin or two at him before you punish with anything else. The extra damage helps.

-Zair: (aerial chain) It's completely lagless. It will be used to start combos and such. Shield through it and the followup or roll away to reset your spacing.

-Jab: Link has a slow 7 frame jab (as opposed to Olimar's 4 frame jab) with great range and lock properties. If you don't tech your falls, he will jab lock you to the edge and finish with any attack of his choosing. His jab is his life saver in most matchups. It's not uncommon to see this as his most used attack.

-Nair->jab: I haven't personally seen this used with Link against Oli, but it works with other characters. Link's nair is lagless upon landing, and so he may be able to jab after the nair before your shieldgrab comes out. If this happens to you, simply pivotgrab the nair more.

• How to win ?

• Be patient. Spam your pikmin until he approaches. You DO outcamp Link, so if you can't seem to do it, then you just need to either practice or rethink your pikmin throwing strategy.
• Be sure to capitalize on his slower moves. Shield through them and punish accordingly.
• Link has a tether grab, so it's quick for how much range it has, but the afterlag is awful. For this reason, Link players don't grab very often. Try shielding more in the matchup, but don't depend on it. If they think you'll shield an attack, obviously they'll grab instead.
• Gimping Link- His recovery is bad. IMO, it's worse than Olimar's. It doesn't go very high, he falls fast, and his upb isn't very fast. The only thing he has going for him is his weight for DI and some projectiles to help keep opponents from edgehogging. Throwing your purples at him is a fantastic edgeguard. Spaced fsmashes off the side of the stage is good as well. If he's far enough from the stage that he'll have to use his upb to recover, then you can upb to the ledge and just hang there. When he throws a bomb or boomerang, just press up and go back to the ledge. When he's just about to use his upb, immediately press back->upb->up to regrab the ledge and regain your invincibility frames so you can continue to edgehog him.
• Also! Keep in mind that with Link's bad recovery and your dsmash's horizontal trajectory, it can be a great setup for edgeguards and gimps.

• Match-Up 70-30: (easier)
​

• Recommended stages:
-Your normal counterpicks should do well versus Link. Just choose a stage you're comfortable at.
​

• Behaviour :
The typical Wario player will jump around to bait you into disadvantageous positions. They'll then punish you and follow up. They'll slowly force you to the edge of the stage to limit your options, and thus be more predictable.

"Wario's recovery is one of the best in the game. First he uses his bike and then (if needed) he uses his "recovery". So you really have to kick him out of the boundaries to kill him. Keep this in mind. Don't go edgehogging Wario, it barely has any use."
-Jarri

• His scaring moves :
-Dair: It's a great move Warios use to approach. It tears up shields and it's very safe when spaced correctly. Learn when it's hitbox ends and try to grab him afterwards. Your uptilt has priority over it, but only use it when you KNOW he'll dair. Wario is too good at baiting this sort of thing.

-Bike: It's not too powerful, but it's quick and might catch you off guard if he uses it on stage. You can grab him off the bike, so don't get overexcited and use your double jump to avoid it. When it's lying on stage, try not to break it. He needs it for recovery purposes. If you break it, he'll likely live longer.

-Fsmash: This powerful K.O. move lacks range, but with a studder step, it becomes alright. It's pretty fast and has super armor. Something Wario players like to do is use it as you land. The SA frames will negate any knockback he should get were you to attack, and its surprisingly longlasting hitbox will screw you over if you decide to airdodge. Just avoid this altogether and don't land next to him, ever. He's got too many options out of shield.

-Upair: One of Wario's most reliable killing option is quick and powerful. Sometimes it can be a good idea to whistle it and punish with a nair or somethin. This is because they LOVE to bait airdodges and follow them up with upair clapping.

-Bite: It's basically a grab, but with a longer lasting grab box and usable in the air. It is frequently used to follow up on his aerials. It punishes shielding, airdodging, and spotdodging, so just know that if you're going to use any of these, you're risking a bite. When offstage, he can use it to kill you both. (AKA wariocide)

-Waft: It charges midbattle and can kill you at low percentages. It has super armor, and it deals more damage when it's 75% charged (after 1:30 seconds) than if it was 100% charged (2 minutes). Wario users know this. Don't wait until he starts glowing to think that it's a threat. It is a GREAT killing attack and will be used all the time.

• How to win ?
"Do NOT try and sit there and shield grab, it WON'T work on Wario like other characters. He'll come in with a move, hit your shield, double jump and BITE you. Instead of playing Olimar like normal, you have to be a bit more mobile and get around that. I don't recommend rolling behind because he'll follow with a F-smash and pound through any pikmin that come at you. The only thing quick enough to punish this is probably a short hop backwards and fair. Otherwise, just roll backwards. Everything else leads to you getting hit."
-Rocann

"Stay on the ground... A lot. Olimar just cannot keep up with Wario in the air and Wario eats light, floaty characters for breakfast in his territory. If you get caught up in the air, focus on getting safely on the ground instead of trying to take him on. Olimar has a lot of range over Wario, use it to prevent him from getting too close. Pikmin toss can keep him occupied and on his toes while you plan a strategy to counter whatever he does. Shield Grab or Smash him whenever he messes up on spacing or timing. Also, be wary of being too close to the edge, as all it takes is a solid move to knock you off a bit and he will edgeguard you to death."
-Dr. mario guy

Basically, just be on the ground a lot, but also remember to be very mobile when fighting Wario. Mess up his spacing by getting yours right, and you'll catch him off rythym. Punish any laggy, failed approaches with your smashes and grabs. This won't come along often, but when it does, you have to be sure to capitalize on it.

• Match-Up 50-50: (even)
​

• Recommended stages:

• Final Destination and Smashville: Wario thrives on stages w/ platforms. Stages like FD are long shooting ranges where Wario is the target and Olimar is the gunman. Wario has nowhere to run from the pikmin, and a long stage gives Olimar an easier time spacing.

• Behaviour :
In the beginning of the match, Pikachu will spam thundershock in full jumps. If you camp correctly, he'll realize sooner or later that the thundershocks won't be enough to get Olimar to approach. He'll begin to approach via full hop
->thundershocks, and then follow up in a variety of different ways. Usually, he'll use a quick fair or nair, and then follow up with another quick move, maybe dsmash or uptilt to begin combos. Pikachu's grab is one of his combo starters so he'll be looking for an opportunity to get one on you early.

QACing-this is a technique used by most pikachu users that actually cancels pikachu's upb into another jump, at which point he can either attack or use another quick-attack. He can chain them together creating very fast and sometimes confusing movement patterns. It's used some in this lulzy video.

Pikachu, overall, is a very quick character both on the ground and in the air, and he has many quick attacks to accompany him. He won't be afraid to fight close combat. Most of his combos go upwards, and they'll usually be finished with off with a nair or a powerful thunder. Pikachu's combo ability is fantastic and really shows off how great of an aerialist he really is.

• His scaring moves :
-Dsmash: It's disjointed, multihit, fast, and powerful. You can DI out of it by smash DIing upwards and out. If you don't successfully DI and you get hit by the last hit, you'll get sent upwards. DO NOT immediately airdodge. It'll probably be punished with thunder. Instead, look at Pikachu, listen for the thunder, and airdodge the split second you hear it coming. In other words, time it.

-Thunder: It's a combo finisher and an aerial punisher. It can be difficult to airdodge through it, so just try to avoid the situations where you'd think he would use it in the first place and you'll be fine. Usually, that means being above him.

-Thundershock(TS): Full hopped TS is an attack that's used to get you to stand still so you become an easier target to deal with. Really, they expect you to shield it, and they're always looking for different ways to punish you. When you're on the ground and he jumps into a TS, there's a couple of options for you: You can roll towards him, far enough so that he lands and neither the TS nor followup will hit you. You can also run underneath him and upsmash if he's too close. If they use a full hopped TS and try to land behind you, you can run FORWARD and pivotgrab behind you. This'll avoid both the TS and Pikachu and may land you a grab.

The best option most of the time is to jump up and back and throw a pikmin while airborne. There's two things that can happen when you do this. If you hit the TS with a thrown pikmin, you nullify the hitbox. This can leave Pikachu vulnerable from above. If you hit pikachu while jumping over the TS you can get some easy 4-6 damage onto him, while pressuring him to get them off. This can give you a little bit of time to re-pluck or maybe punish him for knocking off the pikmin.

Try not to just stand there and shieldgrab or spotdodge every time. It gets predictable and thus easily punishable. (QAC, grabbing your shield, fsmashes and fair->dsmash or uptilt to punish spotdodges, etc.)

-Fsmash: Fast and powerful, this move doesn't exactly outrange your fsmash, but can pack a powerful punch. Space yourself well enough and Pikachu won't be able to use this attack very often. Yellow fsmashes will go through pikachu's fsmash and hit him.

-Nair: This is one of the better nairs in the game. It's very quick with great speed, average range, and good knockback. It's used to finish combos and interrupt opponent's combos. It will beat out all of Olimar's aerials except upair.

When Pikachu uses a falling nair at the ground, he bounces up afterwards. The little bounce he gets from it will sometimes be enough to elevate himself over a shieldgrab from Olimar. For this reason, it can be beneficial to use an out of shield attack such as an upsmash instead of shieldgrabbing it. The lag from the nair is enough to give you time to do it.

-Fair: It's an approaching tool that pressures well, and can surprise you b/c it's very quick and surprisingly disjointed. Falling fairs lead into grabs, dsmashes or uptilt->upair->nair or similar combos. If he uses falling fairs, just shieldgrab them. If he's shorthopping them, shield the fair and follow-up with a grab or upsmash. If he hits you with a falling fair, DI UP and try to jump away so he doesn't followup.

• How to win ?
"Yellow Pikmin are sexy little beasts in this fight, abuse them as necessary. Use good DI for Dsmash, try to be careful about taking him on in very close range, and just overall play smart. You don't need to be aggressive or follow Pikachu closely, you should be thinking about landing solid hits one at a time and just finishing him off with something a bit more powerful. He can edgeguard pretty well, but recovery has never been a strong point of Olimar's, so this shouldn't be a surprise."
-Dr. mario guy

"Pikachu's recovery ultimately relies on speed and unpredictablity. When Pikachu is knocked off the stage (I'm thinking Battlefield or Final Destination), try spooking him by Piko spamming, then take your chance and 'guess' where Pikachu is going to land."
-OlimarFan

When Pikachu is on the ledge and you're on the stage, he may try to ledge-stall. He'll sit on the ledge waiting for you to attack him, maybe with a dair, fair, or w/e. Pikachu will then attack you with a series of upairs, fairs, nairs, and TSs and it can be very difficult to get past. It's used to rack up damage, stall, and maybe get you offstage where Olimar doesn't do so well. When a Pikachu does this, I recommend sitting on the stage and spamming well spaced fsmashes off the side. (so the pikmin reaches just over the ledge) Don't get impatient and attack him directly. Just keep spamming and wait for him to get off.

• Match-Up 55-45: (even)
Olimar and Pikachu mains usually find the other difficult to play against b/c of their contrasting playstyles. Olimar may have a slight advantage in the matchup.


• Recommended stages:

• Luigi's Mansion: A safe haven from thunder, thundershocks, and juggling, this close quarters stage takes away pikachu's aerial game while highlighting Olimar's astounding ground game.
• Battlefield: This stage can protect you from thundershock for the most part, and can help you space well. Olimar is good at stages with platforms anyways, so why not?

Behaviour :
Basically, he'll spam his lasers along with the top, and when you try to approach, he'll spam dtilt, dsmash, and ftilt to space. Off the stage he'll wall of pain with fairs and try and gimp kill you. Don't bother edgeguarding him when you get him off the stage b/c of his great recovery. Also, if you do it correctly, you can outspam R.O.B and force him to approach. They usually don't mind approaching anyways though.

• His scaring moves :
-Dsmash: one of R.O.B.'s many spammable attacks. It's a quick, multihit 4 FRAME dsmash that's great in any close combat situation. It's commonly used directly after spotdoding. DO NOT roll around R.O.B. It's very easy for him to punish with dsmash.

-Gyro (the top): Not too spammable, but will be used in conjunction with the laser(which is spammable) to camp. You should try to latch while he's charging, but be weary. To grab it while it's spinning, just dash attack into it.
If you're about to land from recovering and he fires the gyro at you, he's probably trying to time it where it'll hit you during those few frames where you're vulnerable during each landing. If he times it correctly, you just need to WAC through it.
"If he uses the top, which most Robs do, catch it midair, and keep holding onto it. You're going to camp him anyway, why not reduce his camping ability by half? You can use any B move that you want while holding onto the top, including the ever so annoying side b without letting go of it. But as long as you're holding it, he can't make another one. If for whatever reason you want to get rid of the top (so you can kill him, for example), you can press Z in the air at any time to drop, A + direction to throw in that direction, Cstick to smash throw, or glide toss it in any direction. Don't do the same thing every time you get rid of it. Best way if you have time is to throw it up, or off of the stage, to delay the time it takes for him to make another one, or directly at him."
-Rapid Assassin

-Laser: It's got about a 3-4 second time frame after each use where he can't use it again. After those few seconds, he can use it. It's one of those attacks that you just have to get used to being spammed, and try and avoid it. He will try to use it when you're recovering from above and away from the stage. When you get lower, he'll either use the gyro or go for the gimp kill.

-Fair: It has very good priority and hitstun, and can create an effective WoP (wall of pain). If you're caught in it, your first thought should be to try to get to the ground and shield. If you're stuck and can't do that, use your whistle armor and counter the attack or just roll away.

-Nair: A very good nair with great priority, range, power, long-lasting, and has a disjointed hitbox. If you see it coming, don't try and attack. In a way, it's like Bowser's fsmash, but airborne. If you can hit him before the hitbox comes out, do. But if you can't, try and punish the afterlag.

-Ftilt: It has great range and will be used to space. Both Olimar's fsmash and grab technically outrange it, but if he's within range to use an ftilt, DO NOT GRAB HIM WHILE HE IS FTILTING. DON'T TRY IT. His ftilt is faster than your super armorless grab and he'll hit you.

-Dtilt: It trips, and if he missed the first, he's probably gonna pull out another. It's usually "comboed" into a dash attack,(usually he'll try to chain some fairs afterwards to rack and maybe gimp kill) fsmash,(for killing) or ftilt(to space). DI accordingly and do your best to avoid any other combos on you. WAC helps.

• How to win ?

"1) Avoid the edge game - being an olly that relies on spikes...I know that spikes DO NOT WORK in this matchup at all. Really anything on the edge should be limited to up air and up b.

2) Live under ROB - rob only has two attacks that aim below him...timing up air, up b, and up smash will allow you to win this game. If possible - save the upsmash and watch for purple pikmin to get quick kills.

3) Live on your grab game - very important to live grabbing without missing. Missing a grab will give Rob wayyy too many options."
-Shrinkray21

A good strategy:
"One thing that should be a given to Olimar players is to latch Pikmin onto ROB while he is charging his Gyro, and to NEVER try and approach him while it's charging. If you continue to jump and latch Pikmin ROB will be forced to stop, and either throw the Gyro or destroy the Pikmin. When I fought my friend I would latch Pikmin, he would throw the Gyro as I came down, and use an attack to kill Pikmin so while he killed my Pikmin I grabbed his Gyro, this can be and effective technique to get a hold of the Gyro and keep it from ROB unless of course they save it for later and just kill the Pikmin but it still usually isn't that hard to get it. Holding onto the Gyro can GREATLY put Olimar at an advantage. And don't forget Olimar can duck to avoid ROBs LAZOR so with little prediction and timing you can avoid it, so by avoiding the laser and holding onto the Gyro basically forces ROB to approach you, which is probably not in ROBs favor."
-Puddin

"Approaching ROB: The best ways to approach are either well-spaced grabs (all but purple pikmen grabs out range most of our moves) or pretty much anything else you do that's well spaced. Oli is one of the few, if not the only character in the game that can out-range ROB AND has disjointed hitboxes. Learn to abuse your range much like a ROB does."
-Sudai

Basically, try to sit outside his range,(don't try to camp. It doesn't work. You have to sit just outside of his dash attack range) and use fsmash and pikmin throw to force approaches. If he kills the pikmin, rush in to punish him. The two most valuable pikmin and latch areas are red,(for the fire attacks) and his head. Try to latch onto his head b/c he doesn't have very many options to get them off. STAY BELOW him. He can't do anything when you are below him. He's rather easy to juggle and keep in the air. If he's about to land, don't rush him. Just set up your pikmin and keep your range advantage.

Also, you DO outcamp him if you can SH your pikmin throws efficiently. If you're getting outcamped, just practice your SHpikmin throws, and predicting the laser and the gyro.

• Match-Up 35-65: (harder)

• Recommended stages:

• DO NOT pick Final Destination: If you can, ban it. No platforms + wide stage= easier time.
• Battlefield: R.O.B. isn't very good on this stage. He has trouble on any stage with platforms, and Olimar's aerial defense can help keep Rob from reaching the ground safely.
• Luigi's mansion: If Battlefield is banned, Luigi's can be a good counterpick. Most ROBs like this stage anyways. Olimar's superior ground game beats ROB's inside the mansion.

• Behaviour :
There are 3 qualities that make a good Marth. A good Marth knows how to space well, pressure you with tilts, aerials, and dancing blades, and knows how to win off stage using fairs and the occasional dair.

Tippering- This is what happens when Marth hits his opponent with the tip of his sword on any sword attack. It induces more knockback and more damage. His attacks will kill much sooner.

• Her scaring moves :
-Fair: Easily Marth's best aerial. It's got range, it's disjointed, if tippered it's strong, and not it makes for a great WoP (wall of pain). He can use 2 in one short hop. If he lands a fair on you, he can usually combo it into dancing blade to rack up even more damage. Basically, his fair outclasses yours. Don't try to do the downthrow->fair combo on Marth past maybe 0-5%. If he DIs correctly, his fair will beat out your fair so you will get hit instead! He can also kill latched pikmin with this move. To avoid being mauled with fair simply walk away from fairs range. When there's ending lag quickly grab, or if you wanna be unorthadox upb. You can also spotdodge and then use a tilt or smash, though grabbing would be your safest, most reliable option.

When you're caught in a WoP, whistle and airdodge to get to safety. Don't attack back with aerials! He'll outrange you. If he WoPs you offstage, You can upair coming from below to get back. That's always safe.

Marth on the ledge- Marth players generally tend to use a fair from the ledge to protect themselves while they get back on. Don't stay close. Shielding, then grabbing won't work if he's behind the ledge. Just chuck purple pikmin at him to screw him up, and try to catch him with an fsmash or grab as he lands back onstage.

"Also Olimar is small so if Marth is spamming f-air then time it and run under him. I play against Marth all the time trust me it works. I know shield grabbing is hard, but when it comes down to it there are times when you can grab him. You just have to make the most out of your opportunities."
-Whodat

-Dancing Blade (sideb): This is possibly the most complicated move in the game to master (and to explain). It has multiple uses for Marth. It's great shield pressure and/or damage if he uses the green(down) portion of it. The blue(up) is great for knocking people into the air (plus it can kill), and the red will just knock you off the stage for edgeguarding opportunities. You CAN shieldgrab the entire thing if your shield is full, but don't count on it every time. Just be aware that if it isn't full, dancing blade will cut it. Dancing blade will easily cut through your pikmin as well.

Try to know it's range before hand. If you know where its hitbox is and will be after and while he's using the move, you can roll behind him and punish or you can pivot grab him. You can't attack him while he's using it. Don't retaliate. Just run and/or (if you can) shieldgrab, or pivot grab it.

-Dolphin Slash(upb): Things to know: It's great OoS (out of shield). It has invincibility frames during the first 5 frames and sends out a hitbox on the 5th. C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

It has considerable after-lag as well. When you think he'll use it, shield then punish in the air the after lag. Also, this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175891

-Fsmash: It's powerful when tippered and it's fast. However fsmash can no longer hit you on the ledge like melee. Avoid the attack when used onstage. Just shield, or spotdodge to avoid being hit then punish wih a grab or smash attack.

• How to win ?
GRAB! You must grab to win. Find openings- most of marth's fatal attacks have a decent amount of after lag. Grab then set up grab combos. Marth has no projectiles, so camp a lot. Chuck a lot of pikmin, and keep chucking them! When he's away from you there's no reason not to. Your goal is to pressure Marth into making mistakes. Then you find openings, and you punish! Marth will need to space well to touch you, so don't let him breathe!

"The key to this match up is knowing where their attacks will stop so you can be right out of range and grab them"
-Skank (Asob)

Also, keep in mind that thrown purples are unusually good at disrupting his approaching, pressuring, and stage control game in this matchup.

• Match-Up 40-60: (hard)
It's a fun matchup. It's a battle of the minds. It's all about great spacing when fighting Marth, and sadly, that's what he's good at.

He has his faults. Here's a list: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183759 :3

• Recommended stages:
There aren't really any stages that Marth isn't good at. He's one of the most versatile characters in the game. He's good on platforms, good on stages without platforms, he can maneuver around obstacles on stages such as norfair and doesn't have trouble WoP edgeguarding anyone anywhere... except maybe Metaknight. Here's a thread about Marth's good stages that I dug up: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172505
Really, just pick a stage you're comfortable with. Final destination is a good option because it's a flat stage with no platforms- Perfect for chucking pikmin.
​

• Behaviour :
Falco is a spammer. He'll spam lasers to see if he can outcamp you. He'll try to shine the pikmin back at you while spamming his lasers. Falco is a very versatile character. He's got great speed and mobilty. He'll spray in every move in his arsenal. Every time he jumps, you should anticipate a very fast attack- either upair or bair. Upair can be used to kill, while bair will knock you off stage for edgeguarding, which will usually be done with his spike or laser spam.

• His scaring moves :
-Laser: the best laser of the three spacies, it's spammable, has hitstun, and is a great combo setups. Your best options are to stay on the ground and shield it or jump and throw pikmin to hit the laser midair. Yellows go through the laser also. You can try airdodging and rolling to mix it up. Umm...dtilt goes under the laser, you can try and use that some, but it's not very effective in the long run. Don't airddodge when he gets too close though, or he'll follow up with a grab at low percents or an upsmash or somethin to kill.

"His B is his greatest weakness against us. When we charge a smash attack, our pikmin tank B for us! If it's yellow, it takes it to full charge and comes back all the way. Even more, if you F+B a yellow on him, it stops B. If you toss it in front of him and let the yellow come back, you are protected at that elevation."
-BlackWaltzX

-Upsmash: One of Falco's best kill moves. It's fast and has good priority. It's great just after spamming laser. He can upsmash you during the hitstun of the laser if you're not careful. Just be cautious when you're above him.

-Fsmash: Falco's best kill move. It has surprising range, but just like upsmash, it's very punishable.

-Phantasm (sideb): It's annoying, but it has low priority. It'll be used to recover. If timed correctly, all of Olimar's smashes will beat out the sideb.

"Like the rest of the Space Furries Falcos recovery is limited, but remember so is Olimars so I guess just be careful when going out to edge guard. One thing I've noticed is that Falco (along with Fox) likes to grab the ledge, jump up, and use the Side B as means to get back onto the stage this can be very annoying, but easily punished by shielding the blow and running in for a grab during landing lag."
-Puddin

-Chaingrab: It doesn't work well on Olimar due to his floatyness. DI upwards and out and be prepared for a nair, upsmash, dash attack, or another grab for a followup. Just use fair and if you decide to airdodge, look for an upsmash or dash attack.

• How to win ?

"Down throw at 0% can be done at least twice before Falco can DI out of it. If Falco does DI out of it I think that the best idea would be to run and UP smash or run behind and pivot grab. Just my two cents. Also read the latch thread I made. Latching a Yellow correctly prevents lasers and Yellows can be Forward smashed through the lasers."
-Dr. Hyde

Falco outcamps you with a combination of shine and laser spam. Throw you pikmin and wait to see if he'll try to approach. yellows will stop laser spam. If he knows that he can outcamp you, approach cautiously, yet quickly to avoid extra laser damage. Do this by either getting pikmin in the way of the laser spam and approach while they're getting hit, or approach through the air while airdodging the lasers.

Don't try and get too close to Falco though b/c he has a lot of faster options than you have. When you get within range of shine, he'll be trying to use it to space. Space you fsmashes, grabs and SHfair against his shine and you should do well. Running shield/spotdodge can work against the shine so use it sometimes.

Falco is easily juggled. As Dr. Hyde said, you can use dthrow twice before Falco can get out. He falls very fast, so if you get too high up and you whiff an upair or upb, he'll ff to the ground and punish you. This is a big reason why platforms work well against Falco.

Dr. Hyde has done some latch area research on Falco for where you should aim your pikmin. It can be found here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170696

• Match-Up 50-50: (even)

• Recommended stages:
-Battlefield: Platforms+laser=no camping. Olimar is good on stages with platforms anyways. combos are easier to follow up considering there's so many platforms to jump into after your uptilts, nairs and upairs.

-Jungle Japes: It's not level so lasers aren't as big of a deal now. Control the middle and throw pikmin while he trys to get to you.

​

• Behaviour :
Kirby has a lot of tricks in his arsenal. I'll name some of the ones that you'll most likely run in to:

• He's got multiple setups and strings out of his grabs. At low percents, this will be his main racking option. He's got dthrow>uptilt>upair chaining, fthrow>upair>fsmash, upthrow>sideb, and some others that can be used based on your DI. For the most part, try to DI away from him. If you have to, WAC it out, so he can't continue his strings of attacks.
• a WoP of bairs and upairs will be used when you're airborne. You're rather weak from above, so try to get to the ground as fast as possible.
• dair>attack- This is a tricky one to get used to. See His scaring moves for more info.

• His scaring moves :
-Grab chains: he's got multiple grab combos that I've explained above. Just look for him to grab you at the beginning of the match. Avoid it with pivotgrabs, spaced fsmashes, and SHfairs. (your spacing options)

-Dair: If you can, ROLL AWAY. If you're stuck in it and your rolling option isn't there, just shield it out. He's got multiple options after dairing. He may dtilt, ftilt, or fsmash you afterwards. Most likely, he'll attack using one of these options, so anticipate it and shield. If you're at low percents, he may try to grab combo you. Off the stage, it can spike, so be aware.

-Bair: Fear it! It's used to create a WoP. If you're offstage, DON'T get caught up in trying to DI away from it. If you can, WAC through it to get to the ground. He'll push you farther and farther and farther away from the stage before you know it.

-Fsmash: One of Kirby's main kill moves. It's often used as you land after a grab combo. If you can, try to WAC through it. (if you're at kill percentage)

• How to win ?
"Kirby is a beast - he's a well rounded character with a great grab game - solid aerials and awesome kill moves.

1) Watch your shield grabbing - when a kirby WOP with bairs - he doesn't need to hit the ground and he'll be in grab range for a VERY VERY short time - a missed shield grab will get you hit with his next move.

2) The dair to fsmash is vicious here! Actually, just the dair in general could win the match for the kirby - shielding this move is a bad choice - roll out of it if you can - watch for the fsmash after the roll.

3) At low percents, Kirby will throw every time and go for up air - Olly cannot get out of one throw to up air - but he should never get hit with more than that - mash jump!

4) Quick kills will win this match for either side - kirby can be spiked out of his up b :D...that's just awesome and will destroy their spirit - PRACTICE THIS TECHNIQUE B/C IT WILL WIN YOU KIRBY MATCHUPS I PROMISE - I can't stress this enough - spike kirby out of his up b - like all matchups - watch for purples and up smash opportunities - but don't telegraph it.

5) Kirby can kirbicide - this can lose you matches - watch your edge game. You can also be spit out under the stage for death as well.

6) Pikmin latch "can" work but its not your best option - throw all white and a few of the others, but keep your line number high - you'll need the recovery."
-Shrinkray21

Tomato Kirby's reply to ^
"1. I guess I can agree with that. Kirby could even try to land behind Olimar and grab.
2. I think Olimar's u-air should out-prioritize Kirby's d-air, so use that instead.
3. Correct
4. Correct, although it is somewhat harder for a horizontal edge-guard for both characters.
5. Correct: Also, Kirby's (better) set-ups to Kirbycide/swallowcide: running~>short-hop~>Inhale and ledge-hop~>Inhale (just keep it in mind).
6. Pikmin Throw is the best opportunity to create an approach=probably the better option. In this fight, Olimar is in a camp war until he can catch Kirby trying to get rid of pikmin."
-Tomato Kirby

• Match-Up 40-60: (hard)

• Recommended stages:
Kirby is so versatile that he doesn't have any stages that are particularly bad for him. Try to ban Rainbow Cruise b/c Olimar has trouble keeping up with the platforms.

​

• Behaviour : "There are some Pit's who like to spam arrow. Some do it to get you to approach, while some do it to spam arrows. You know that, I know that, Pit's know that, everyone knows that. While yes it is quite annoying it's quite easy to dodge. This should not fluster you. The pit's who do this to just make you approach are the dangerous ones. You approach and they have quite a few tricks to perform. If you do approach expect a Nair, Uair, Fair, or Dair all up in your grill. You won't ever ...ever ledge grab them...EVER Their recovery is ridiculous, four jumps, a glide, and WoI is just crazy. They will and I mean most definitely will edge hog, their main way of killing Olimar and no matter what we say it works ."
-Dotcom
​

• His scaring moves :
-Mirror Shield: This along with "HAYAYAYAYA" relfects your pikmin back to you. If pikmin throw has suffered drastically from diminishing returns and your opponent is at a very low percent,(-20) don't bother whistling them off. You'll have a better "giving to recieving damage" ratio if you just go for a grab combo. Mirror shield will actually reflect your regular attacks in a similiar fashion to mario's cape as well. Grabbing it always works though.(as it can't reflect a grab)

"With the angle at which Yellow Pikmin are thrown through the air, they can be thrown while Pit has his Mirror Shield out to land on an area of his back that is not protected by the Mirror Shield and will do damage to him while the shield is out. It's basically like being behind him while the shield is out and still managing to hit him with a projectile."
-Puddin

-HAYAYAYAYA: Possibly the most annoying sound in the game.
"How to get OVER and PAST Pit's F+B if you are stuck jumping.
Whistle as you are rising, just before the move hits. You'll take some damage but land behind Pit. There you go a chance you use a Purple or any smash for a KO.
How to get past the F+B: Grab."
-Dr. Hyde

-Arrows: "Pit's arrow game when put in the right hands can be ridiculous, Arrow Looping, Arrow Swarming, arrow Curving and so many more variations make this one of THE most versatile projectiles in the game. They will use this to their advantage and I if you don't watch out they can knock you off the stage and arrow KO you in more than one way. If you’re in the bubble off the stage a guided arrow can simply KO you. Also if your trying to ^B Arrows can screw you over."
-Dotcom

Pit's arrows have a small "blind spot" where they can't reach. It's about 2-3 purple grab lengths away and up. You can throw yellows from this spot while avoiding arrow spam. This won't cure you from the arrow disease, but just give it a shot. Dtilt goes under it, so if your opponent is one of those spammy arrow noobs that can't aim, just dtilt under them. He CAN direct the arrows to hit you, but just keep this in mind.

-Bair: "Kills' around 120 near the edge or around the middle of the stage and is one of the moves they will mainly try to Wing- Cancel."
-Dotcom

-WoI: (Wings of Icarus)

"You all know that Pit dies if you knock him out of his up b. But if you fight a good pit this will rarely if ever happen. Keep in mind that if you knock a pit out of his up b at the start up, then it will count the move as not happening thus he gains nothing and losses nothing. He can up b again."
-Kupo12

"This move has so many uses it's crazy. The wind that blows you away at the start of the animation, the dash they can combine with it, and the fact they can cancel it into ANY aerial this is quite dangerous especially at higher percents."
-Dotcom

There's too many ways they can use this to explain them all. It'd be better just to show you some threads about them:
Wing dashing
Wing shoving
Angelic Step (not about WoI, but it's good to know)

-F Smash: "Their main killing move. But it's only scary around 140% or so. A trick though is that it's not the first part of the Smash that kills you it's the second. If you have fast reflexes or you know it's coming Smash DI away during the first one and WAC the second one."
-Dotcom

• How to win ?

"Grab. It's simple and effective but Do Not get super mcgrab happy. That will quite easily lead to your demise. But grabs are key, you always have options for a follow up after a grab or you can just throw for space and give yourself some time. Pivot grabbing is awesome so you might want to keep those things in minds. Shield grabbing is also essential a lot of his aerials have easily enough time to grab out of them after a shield so if you see a short hopped Nair coming at you shield and grab.

Over B: Oh gawd this is awesome as just spam. This move when used constantly gets a Pit quite flustered and makes him want to do things he normally wouldn't and shouldn't do. Keep this as a reserve move especially when you’re on the defensive to get some time to compose yourself.

Short Hopped Aerials: keeps Pit on his toes and forces him to change strategies no matter what he's in the process of doing. Keeping pit on the defensive is probably the best strategy because he only has about 3 or 4 options, seeing as how he's a more offensively geared character.

Important: Try your best to keep track or your purples in this match up. It can lead to mass devastation. You seen when Pit does his WoI it has a big flaw, if he's hit out of it and doesn't have anymore jumps... he's dead. You see our over B with say a blue or red during his up B wouldn't count as him getting hit out of the Wings. But hitting with a purple during WoI is just like spiking because they have no way of returning."
-Dotcom

• Match-Up 60-40: (easy)

• Recommended stages: All of this was quoted from Dotcom

• Yoshi Story: Shy guys screw up their arrow game, and the ghosts help our recovery even if not intentionally.
• Battlefield: Short hopping aerials becomes much easier to do with the ledges, and also reduces their ability to spam arrows due to the size of the stage.
• Pokemon Stadium 1: The bottom screws up their recovery because pit's like to glide under the stage to the other ledge when we edge guard. This can lead to them needing to use a WoI which can be there demise. Also when the scenery changes it's mostly to our benefit and helps us out. All of them knock off arrow looping and swarming, so it's a tremendous advantage.

Stages to stay away from (or just down right ban):

• Rainbow Cruise: Pit + Olimar + Rainbow Cruise = Olimar's demise. Like seriously ban this. It’s horrible. No explanation needed.
• Delfino Plaza: Ban this too. When we ride on the moving platforms that take us everywhere, Pit can come under the stage and use Uair like no one else. Seriously this is bad.
• Final D: You would think this is neutral but their arrow game is taken to new heights on this stage and that can severely screw you over. Don't ban just don't pick it.

• Behaviour :
Every Zero Suit Samus user will throw the pieces of her armor at you at the beginning of the match. You know this. If you can, spotdodge them. They'll fly past you and off the stage where you want them. If you can ever take hold of them safely, that's even better! Be creative. Throw them up or down and let them bounce. It can serve as a wall to protect you as you spam your pikmin and fsmashes. Treat them as you would Diddy's bananas.

Zero Suit Samus(Zamus or ZSS) won't approach regularly. She'll sit outside of YOUR range instead of the other way around. Her plasma whip(sideb) has more range and will be used very often. It's a very good defensive and offensive spacing tool-similar to Olimar's fsmash. You'll meet stun lasers, long tether grabs, and plasma whips the whole match.

Recovering: Zamus has many recovery options. Her downb(flip) can help her get back, she can tether multiple times using both her sideb and upb. If you get too aggresive you may get spiked.

• Her scaring moves :
-Running approaches: Try to spotdodge her running approaches cuz she'll likely grab or dash attack->jab. You can easily punish her laggy grab with your own grab combos, but her dash attack hasn't enough lag for you to get fancy.

-Dsmash: This is one of her most complicated moves. She has many ways to set it up and many ways to follow-up. Also, every dsmash can be combo-ed into another dsmash. Her's a few follow-ups you'll probably see:

Dsmash->upb: After the upb she may try to use dsmash again. It's an infinite infinite if you don't DI upward and way from her or don't tech the floor.

Dsmash->walk>dsmash: If you continually choose to DI away from her and airdodge while you're airborne, she might catch on and begin to just dsmash again. Think of it like Falco's dthrow chaingrab. If you don't retaliate, he'll just walk up and grab you again. Same thing for Zamus' dsmash.

Dsmash->?- She can attack you with most every move in her arsenal after a dsmash. It makes a great killing setup, like DK's head pound.(sideb)

-Armor pieces: See Behaviour.

-Plasma whip: (side-b) It has awesome range, but has lag! Learn the spacing on it and punish it with a simple grab. It WILL be used for spacing, so expect it. It can be a handy kill move for her as well.

-Da Stun gun: (neutral-b) Fsmash cancels it. Latched pikmin do as well. If you spotdodge the laser, she has no reason to stop spamming it. You need to shield it or roll away. It has range similar to Luigi's firballs, so if you're too close to her when you roll, you'll still get hit by the laser as it passes through your invincibilty frames to the other side. If you shield it, anticipate a running grab. She knows you'll shield, so just spotdodge AFTER you shield the laser. Then you can punish the missed grab with one of your own.

-Downb: (the flip) It spikes, so watch out. I don't recommend edgeguarding her very aggresively because of this. Nair outprioritizes it, so you can try edgeguarding with it if you want. One thing Zamus users like to do when they're on the ledge is SH off the ledge and flip over you. It'll spike you if it hits. You can anticipate it and either shield it, or you can nair. There's an example in this video at

• How to win ?
"Remember that your short hop game is better than hers. Most of her attacks have long, thin hitboxes that go out in front of and above her, and they'll miss you if you're off of the ground at all."
-Kyas

"ZSS can spam Plasma Whip underneath most Pikmin, but still out of range of your smashes and grab, so I'd imagine the neutral parts this game comes down in many ways to spacing. If she does get latched, you'll probably see her using bair to get rid of Pikmin, because it's entirely lagless upon landing. This isn't so bad, as doing so will wear down one of her best KO moves.

The big issue is whether you can KO ZSS before she knocks you off the stage. Olimar is much, much easier to gimp than ZSS, especially for ZSS, since she can be on the ledge, but her hurtbox is at a point where if you try to hit her with a purple, she can reel in, and be invincible when you try to Pikmin chain up to the ledge. This means that staying onstage is doubly important for Olimar in this match-up.

Even though Olimar has trouble with ZSS off the stage, he weighs more than she does (seriously, wtf?) and has a bit more power. IMO, the match is even, and depends on who can keep the match at their preferred pace the longest."
-ph00tbag

Overall, try to throw pikmin to force her to be over-aggressive. This is your goal. She's a character that requires patience. If you can get her run in and fight close and personal, you'll have a better shot at winning the match. You should play more aggressively as well for the same reason. It can throw off her great spacing game if you're on top of her.

Throughout the match, she'll take advantage of her equally long range and her ability to manipulate your shielding. Watch out.
• Match-Up 55-45: (even)

• Recommended stages:
-Needs more input.

I think they do like luigi's mansion for the same reasons we do. Spacing is more important than usual on this stage.

Corneria should work well for low percent top kills. She's very light.
​

This will probably end up being the longest character description in this thread because of how frequent it is to see him, and also how many people will actually view this summary in need of advice for fighting him. If I haven't put something about the matchup in here, I'll end up adding it later. If something doesn't make sense or just...isn't enough for you to understand the matchup, just post your question in this thread! People will help you if you post. The matchup is hard if your opponent knows what he's doing. Don't expect to win without practicing a lot.

• Behaviour :

Overview:
Expect every good quality in a character you can find- from laglessness to combos to speed and quickness, he's got it all; he's the best character in the game. He's got a very strong ground and aerial game- air moreso than ground though. He has the least lag and startup on his attacks overall than any character. They've got some ridiculous range as well. All of his attacks are disjointed and can cut through Olimar's pikmin with ease.

His strong points:
-He's the king of gimping. He will try to gimp kill you every chance he gets. Everything he will do will be done in an attempt to get you off the stage. He'll finish edgeguards mostly with dairs to knock you downwards and away from the stage, but you'll see fair and shuttleloop as well. The higher you get, the more likely he is to use shuttleloop and fair. When recovering from below, he'll use dair much more of the time.

-Everything leads into everything, haha. Most of his attacks have low knockback and string together very nicely. He won't stop for you to regain your footing or to pick pikmin. He'll throw his whole body at you with speed and quickness because he knows you'll have a hard time stopping it.

His cons:
He has some cons, but they all can be completely avoided, negated, or worked around with relative ease.

• Many Metaknights (MKs) tend to be over-aggressive. Sometimes they'll "forget" or rather ignore airdodging and spotdodging because they have the range and speed advantage most of the time. An example would be double dsmashing. Instead of spotdodging, shielding, or retreating after landing a dsmash on an opponent's shield, they might just dsmash again.
• He's light. Not much to say here. You can kill him at low percents if you can land the right attacks.
• Against Olimar, he's weak from below. You've got to get under him and try to use your attacks from there.

• His scaring moves :
Every move in his arsenal should frighten you... Most of them will string together into a variaty of other moves he has. At the end of the string/s, he'll finish you off with dair or shuttleloop. >_> His reliable killers include dsmash, shuttleloop, and most often, gimping. You may meet the occasional fsmash that can kill as well.

-Dsmash: This is one of his main killers. If you can shield it, you DO have enough time to punish it with a dsmash of your own if MK is within range, or a non-purple shieldgrab, though it can be difficult to time. If he's smart he won't use it very often, but will instead save it for the kill.

-Fsmash: Don't spotdodge this (easy for me to say). Really, you shouldn't be spotdodging much against MK anyways, so... you do the math. The prelag lasts just a little longer than your spotdodge.
You can shield it and punish with a shield grab if you're near him, but if he spaces it really well, you may not be able to before he can get a dtilt/dsmash out. If you're not sure, then don't try.
Do whatever you can do to punish it, but make sure you're safe when doing so.

-Upsmash: It's good against airdodgers for the most part. It shouldn't kill you very often, if at all. I'd say it's his worst move overall. It's got deceptive vertical range.

-Dtilt: It trips. It can be used directly after most attacks. You can expect to see it every time you shield one of his attacks such as nair or fair because of how well it shieldpokes. If you get hit, (shielding it or not) he'll probably follow up with a grab. If you can, spotdodge. If you're caught in consecutive dtilts, DI back and away. Don't bother trying to shieldgrab it. It won't work unless you time a powershield->shieldgrab.
If you're near the edge of the stage when he has you in a dtilt lock, you should probably DI back off the stage and try to grab a hold of the ledge. It's better to be in that position rather than getting grabbed after the dtilt and thrown off stage. At least you'll have control over your character.

-Ftilt: It combo's into itself. And will mainly be used for spacing. Treat it like you would Snake's or Rob's ftilt. He'll try to mix up the timing to try to get you to either retaliate or shielgrab, and then he'll throw out a dtilt, shuttle loop, or sometimes a grab. After the third hit of the ftilt, (if you choose to shield it and he chooses to do the entire ftilt combo, which is three strikes of the sword) you can shieldgrab it then. If they're at kill percent, upsmash out of shield works as well.

-Uptilt: It's fast. There isn't much to say about it except it has good range, low lag, and will kill at very high percents if you last that long. He has more dangerous options then uptilt in almost every situation I can think of.

-Jab: (neutral-a) Umm... just shield it or DI away from it. If you can, it can sometimes be helpful to roll behind him during it. This is because it's common for them to follow up with an ftilt. Ever do this to Snake's ftilt or jab combo?-roll behind it and punish? Same thing, but works a little bit better on MK. If all else fails, just shield through both the jab and the followup ftilt and then shieldgrab or something. Don't be predictable.

-Fair: If you don't already hate this attack, you will learn quickly. At 0%, dthrow->fair is a true combo. They will use this, and probably often. Your only goal here is to avoid his followups after the fair. Don't worry about what's attacking you at the moment. Think about what you think he'll use to follow up. DI the fair and get to the ground where you'll have more control over your character. After say... 10 or 15% they won't use the fair as often out of dthrow. They may try to bait an airdodge and then use an aerial, they might shuttleloop, or they could dash attack or grab. Weave around in the air to keep the MK guessing, use the whistle in anticipation of attacks, and get to the ground.
Also, your whistle armor lasts just longer than his fair if you time it correctly. Practice the timing and you'll be able to punish it fairly easily with an upsmash or something.

-Dair: (the ultra gimper) As its name sounds, it's very good at gimping. FEAR IT. When offstage, don't airdodge or try to outmaneuver it! You'll lose a stock this way. When you're offstage trying to get back, you must attempt to WAC through it, or upair through it, and then upb->up immediately afterwards or he'll just pull out another.

On stage dairing- It has its uses onstage as well as offstage. It's lagless enough for followup options to be used directly after the dair. He can either use a nair/dair just afterwards as in SHdair->falling nair/dair, or he can double jump after the dair and float above you using a series of dairs as a shield against retaliation. When the latter happens, try to catch his landing with an upsmash or upair. If he does it correctly, he can just tornado safely to the ground and you can't really do anything against it. Basically, just try to catch his mistakes and punish accordingly.

As well as being good shield pressure, MK's dair is very good at pushing you towards the edge of the stage. Most MK's will try to followup VERY quickly if they hit you with this. Grabs and pivotgrabs work well to stop his momentum.

-Upair: It's got the least cooldown of any aerial in the game. (He can use it 3 times in one shorthop. >_>) It strings into itself like...at least three or four more times at low percents even with good DI.

When you're trying to get back down to the ground against it you don't really have any choice but to float away from it and hope for the best. WACing and airdodging can help throw him off, but really, you're entirely dependent on a mistake from the MK. If he's using falling upairs, his upair spam will beat out your airdodges, whistle use, and any other kind of retailiation. If he can control his aerial movement well enough to keep that hitbox directed onto your hurtbox, you have no choice but to get hit. Theoretically, he can juggle trap you with it infinitely until you die off the top or DI to the edge of the stage where he can gimp you.
Your best bet in this situation is to smash DI to the left or right once you get hit (the direction of the middle of the stage), and fast fall as soon as possible. If the MK does it correctly, he can fast fall that upair that he hit you with, either glide down to the ground or fall to the ground, and get below you before you reach the ground, which keeps the juggle trap going. Predict his movements, sway Oli's body back and forth, and use whatever combination of whistles and airdodges you think will throw the MK off.

If he's using rising upairs though, you're in luck! Most MKs don't know that this isn't what they need to be doing. Rising upairs will leave a small window for you to airdodge or WAC through the side if you can time it well. Then you just got to worry about a followup dair and either airdodge or whistle through that.

-Nair: MK's nair has rather underrated knockback, and can and will kill at pretty decent percents. It is most commonly used after baiting airdodges because of it's knockback and the fact that it's hitbox surrounds MK, which makes it easier to land a hit with.

When you're attempting to get back to the stage, he can make a wall of nairs between you and the ledge to keep you from getting back. If he does it correctly, there is absolutely nothing you can do against it. If you find something, test it out and if it works, tell me so I can put it in here, lol.

-Mach Tornado: (neutral-b) *sigh* It's really good, despite what all the MK lovers/supporters/he-is-not-brokeners say. It is great at racking damage, (upwards of 22% if it's undiminished I believe) and it restores his other attacks through diminishing returns.

If they're using it as an approach from far away, check to see if he's off the ground. If he isn't floating above the ground and rather along the ground, you can grab him through it with anything other than a purple. Also, your upb has more range than the tornado does, (priority, w/e) so if you can time it, use the tether to break through it.

When you're caught in the spammage: your main focus should be on trying to get to the ground safely. It shouldn't be very easy though. You may have to come from above- where you can dair the middle of the tornado if you time it well. Once you get hit by the tornado, DI straight up, and either nair at the top of the tornado or airdodge through the side so you can get back to the ground. From there, you may be able to punish it.

If you see the tornado coming, and you end up have to shield through it...
"It's best to just shield through it and tilt your shield upwards if you don't have tap jump on. you'll never get hit by it then."
-Skank (Asob)

This is very true^. When you're shielding it, angle your shield upwards. Your shield will last longer this way.

That's pretty much everything you need to know about it. If he uses it from up close after a dair or something, you have no options but to shield or beat it out before it starts up. (It has more priority the more the "b" button is tapped)

-Shuttleloop: (up-b) See the How to win? section.

-Drill Rush: (side-b) Shieldgrab it? It's not very good against Olimar. It may be used for recovering if you go out too far. Not much else though.

-Dimensional Cape: (downb) They shouldn't be using this move...ever. If they do, just shield it and punish with anything of your choice. If they're using it to stall (or disappear if you haven't seen the glitch yet), it's probably banned at the tourney you're playing in, so just call a ref over and ask about it.

-Grabs: His grab is very fast and has pretty good range on it as well. Running grabs are hard to punish if you don't know how to react to them. Pivotgrabs work well, and if they're being too predictable you can spotdodge->dsmash.

Dthrow is his best throw imo. It combos into fair at low percents, and that'll string into other attacks. Just watch out for the followups. WAC if you must in order to avoid further strings/combos.

His other throws shouldn't be too huge a problem. Upthrow is his only kill throw and should be DIed to the side, not upwards.

• How to win ?

"I LOVE fighting MK's...there is very little originality in this character and the matchup is EVEN IMO. Ways to win are simple.

1) Notes to everyone! There are two types of MK's...there are spammy ones that use b moves wayyyy too much and there are good ones with aerials. If a MK is using b moves too much...remember after about number 4-5 on each move, they no longer do really any damage. If they are good and are using aerials...see below.

2) Watch out for reverse shuttle loop and shuttle loop when you are out of jumps. You can whistle this very easily and actually is a better option than dodging.

3) All of MK's aerials are scary...duh...but only one of his smashes is...watch out for the dsmash...and occasional fmash and you should be alright.

4) MK dies really really really fast upwards. Upsmash is your friend here...you can upsmash and uptilt faster than he can double dair...so you have the advantage.

5) His best pikmin killing move is his nair...which has long lag if he's near the ground...therefore...latch IS a good option here...use it. MK has a difficult ground approach game to handle...purples really really help.

6) Finally...don't try to get in an aerial battle his Mk...don't be dumb :D...your grab game is everything here...you should get -0 to 50 very easily...and for the love of god...pivot grab his dash attack...however, watch dash attack to nair."
-Shrinkray

Beginning of the match
On final destination, smashville, yoshi's story, and lylat cruise-
It's more important for you to get to the middle of the stage than anything else. If you stay near the edge, you're more likely to get knocked off and thus gimped. Your options are also very limited when you're at the edge and smart MKs will know how to take advantage off your bad stage position.

On battlefield-
This is for the players that can't pluck 3 pikmin and drop down from the platform in less than a second. If so, you can skip this next paragraph. If not, listen up.

Against MK on battlefield, you can't take too much time to pluck 3 pikmin and drop. You just can't. MK is too fast and is too good from below. You've got to drop down and set up your defense from there. If you take more than 2 seconds to pluck 3 and drop down to the bottom, he'll already be below you ready to punish your landing. You can't take that chance. As soon as the match starts, drop down and look at your opponent. Pull as many pikmin as you see fit and possible for you to still be able to defend against his attacks. You should at least be out of range of his dtilt.

Personally, I like to pluck 3, drop down to the middle, and then run back a little and pivot grab. It gives me some breathing room as well as some time to think about what to do next depending on what the MK does.

Edgeguarding
Don't bother. I don't care how much experience you have edgeguarding him or how often it works for you. It won't ever work at high levels of play, and it will only get you killed.

Notes:
-Your dair actually can spike him out of his upb, but the timing is so difficult that unless you've practiced doing this, you shouldn't...

-His glide attack will beat out everything you've got in the air except upair.

Weakness from below:

• Your upair and upsmash will seemingly "beat out" MK's dair very often. The sword will technically override upsmash and upair, but it's very hard for the MK user to time it so it'll hit the pikmin.
• Most of MK's attacks don't have longlasting hitboxes, which helps keep the attack from hitting both the pikmin and Oli. Attacks such as Yoshi's nair will hit the pikmin and you for this reason.
• Because he's weak against Oli from below, I advise you to do more vertical combos/strings such as dthrow->upsmash->upair->upb instead of the more horizontal combos/strings such as dthrow->fair->fsmash.
• Don't decay your upsmash after MK has about 40%. It will be your most reliable kill move in this matchup.
• Yellows are very reliable in this matchup because of their extended hitbox horizontally. Every inch counts when you're playing against MK.

When you're trying to land on the ground to avoid his strings/combos:
Your number one goal after every hit he lands on you should be to get to the ground. He won't just let you though. He won't wait.

• He'll know that all of his attacks will beat out all of yours, so there's no need for him to take his time. If you're still in the air when he gets close, don't attack him. >_>
• Whistling is not a bad idea, and his single attacks don't do a lot of damage. MK racks by stringing together his very fast attacks, so when you whistle through them, you help break that momentum.

• Match-Up 35-65: (harder)

It's hard if both players know the matchup well. Practice the matchup often or pick a secondary to try to deal with him.

• Recommended stages:
-Battlefield: The platforms help a lot! It makes defending against MK's approaching a little bit easier. The platforms mess up his air game some, and can help Olimar in juggling.

-Corneria: Low ceilings and a long stage make killing off the top and staying alive that much easier. Many tourneys don't allow this stage though.

-Luigi's manision: Don't pick this. The tornado will eat you alive.
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