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Glide Toss Lengths [UPDATED JUNE 11: Glide Toss "Tiers" ]
The following post explains Glide Tosses and lists each character's lengths. If you just want to see how the characters stack up, check two posts down.
Hey guys. I just spent a little bit to test the lengths of everyone's Glide Toss. Before I list them off, here's a video showing what a Glide Toss is:
And to go through the steps:
1.) Shield.
2.) Start a roll.
3.) During the roll's starting frames, throw your item. This varies with each character. For the most part, the later you throw it, the further you go. Throwing upwards or downwards shortens your Glide Toss slightly.
So, I scrapped all the old data. I used this more precise method and came up with solid numbers; and this time, it's in alphabetical order! Basically, I created a stage on Creator with blocks straight across and a row of spikes above them. I then performed Glide Tosses (all four variants, Forward, Backwards, F Reverse, and B Reverse) with all characters and lined their positions up with the spikes. Each interval (gap-spike-gap being 3) counted for .0714. You could sorta look at this like an "Out of 5" scale, since very few Glide Tosses go above 5 block-distances, and those that do are just God Tier in Glide Toss Length terms. However, as will be mentioned later, many people will agree that a medium length Glide Toss is better for mobility and spacing.
Also, though some characters here have zero-length Glide Tosses, some of those characters can utilize techniques such as DACIT to achieve similar effects. This thread only documents the Glide Tosses, however.
So without further stalling, here's the more precise list. (F = Forward, B = Backwards, FR = Forward Reverse, BR = Backwards Reverse)
Complete List of Glide Toss Lengths
Bowser - 0
Captain Falcon - 1.998
F - 1.357
B - 2.6426
FR - 1.357
BR - 2.6426
Charizard - 0.1428
F - 0.2856
B - No distance.
FR - 0.2856
BR - No distance.
DeDeDe - 0
Diddy - 1.7586
F - 1.5355
B - 1.8568
FR - 1.7854
BR - 1.8568
DK - 2.1071
F - 4.2142
B - No distance.
FR - 4.2142
BR - No distance.
Falco - 2
F - 4
B - No distance.
FR - 4
BR - No distance.
Fox - 0.7319
F - 0.714
B - 0.7854
FR - 0.714
BR - 0.714
Game & Watch - 4.1785
F - 4.1428
B - 4.2142
FR - 4.1428
BR - 4.2142
Ganondorf - 1.2499
F - 1.3927
B - 1.1785
FR - 1.2142
BR - 1.2142
Ice Climbers - 0.3213
F - 0.6426
B - No distance
FR - 0.6426
BR - No distance
Ike - 0.5357
F - No distance
B - 1.0714
FR - No distance
BR - 1.0714
Ivysaur - 1.4195
F - 1.6783
B - 1.2142
FR- 1.4641
BR - 1.3213
Jigglypuff - 0
Kirby - 0
Link - 0
Lucario - 1.2051
F - 0.714
B - 1.6426
FR - 0.714
BR - 1.7497
Lucas - 0.4641
F - 0.357
B - 0.5712
FR - 0.357
BR - 0.5712
Luigi - 2.0088
F - 0.1785
B - 0.357
FR - 1.4284
BR - 6.0714 (OMGWTFHAX)
Mario - 0.8838
F - 0.4284
B - 1.357
FR - 0.4284
BR - 1.3213
Marth - 3.357
F - 1.357
B - 5.357
FR - 1.357
BR - 5.357
Metaknight - 4.4998
F - 4.5712
B - 4.4284
FR - 4.5712
BR - 4.4284
Ness - 0.4641
F - 0.357
B - 0.5712
FR - 0.357
BR - 0.5712
Olimar - 0.7854
F - 0.9282
B - 0.6426
FR - 0.9282
BR - 0.6426
Peach - 1.4107
F - 2.1071
B - 0.4641
FR - 2.0714
BR - 1
Pikachu - 0.7678
F - 1.0714
B - 1.0714
FR - 0.4284
BR - 0.5
ROB - 2.4106
F - 2.2142
B - 2.5355
FR - 2.2142
BR - 2.6783
Samus - 1.339
F - 0.9639
B - 1.714
FR - 0.9639
BR- 1.714
Sheik - 0 (Don't be fooled. Her normal backwards toss pushes her back slightly; that is not her Glide Toss.)
Snake - 1.2589
F - 1.0357
B - 1.4641
FR - 1.0357
BR - 1.5
Sonic - 4.125
F - 4.1785
B - 4.0714
FR - 4.1428
BR - 4.1071
Squirtle - 1.9641
F - 2.1428
B - 1.7854
FR - 2.1428
BR - 1.7854
Toon Link - 0
Wario - 1 (lol wut)
F - 1
B - 1
FR - 1
BR - 1
Wolf - .8925
F - 0.8568
B - 0.9282
FR - 0.8568
BR - 0.9282
Zelda - 1.5624
F - 1.4284
B - 1.6069
FR - 1.5
BR - 1.714
ZSS - 1.0357
F - 2
B - No distance
FR - 2.1428
BR - No distance
Why did I make this compilation, when most of these characters can't even spawn items? Because when facing Snake, Diddy, ROB, ZSS, Toon Link, Link, and Peach, you'll know who can Glide Toss and how far they go. I've done some epic stuff myself with this; MK's Glide Toss with Diddy's Banana into fsmash for the KO, for instance.
What Gives a Glide Toss Its Length
After some massive re-thinking on this, I've come to the following conclusions:
1.) Amount of momentum built up from the roll's IASA frames has the largest effect on distance. This is why throwing the item at the last possible moment (i.e., the "sweetspot frame") gives the longest Glide Toss.
2.) Traction is another main factor in distance. The main evidence of it not being the primary factor is Luigi not having 6+ Glide Tosses all around.
3.) Some characters gain/lose distance when throwing backwards. For instance, Pikachu loses momentum from throwing backwards, and Luigi gains a huge amount.
4.) Rolling speed plays a very small part, however its role seems to be negligable at best.
List of "Perfect Only" Glide Tosses
What this means is that you have to hit a certain frame to get the absolute max; I'm only listing the ones that would otherwise have a very small Glide Toss. Basically, if the Perfect Glide Toss length differs by more than .2856 from the other lengths, it's listed here. Metaknight - Backwards and Backwards Reverse
G&W - All four variations
Olimar - Forward and Forward Reverse
Luigi - Backwards Reverse (yes, the OMGWTFHAX Glide Toss)
Falco - Forward Reverse
Captain Falcon - Forward and Forward Reverse
Charizard - Forward and Forward Reverse
Quick Reference
- Highest Average Distance - Pit: 5.0088
- Most Rounded Average - Wario: 1 Avg; 1 distance for all Glide Tosses
- Longest Glide Toss - Luigi Backwards Reverse - 6.0714
- Shortest non-zero Glide Toss - Charizard Forward and F Reverse - 0.2856
- Longest Forward: Pit: 5.0714.
- Shortest non-zero Forward: Charizard: 0.2856
- Longest Backwards: Marth: 5.357
- Shortest non-zero Backwards: Luigi: 0.357
- Longest F Reverse: Pit: 5.0714
- Shortest non-zero F Reverse - Charizard - 0.2856
- Longest B Reverse: Luigi: 6.0714
- Shortest non-zero B Reverse: Lucas and Ness: 0.5712
And in conclusion, some side notes:
- All of the backwards Glide Tosses that cover no distance actually cover a very small distance coming from the pre-set momentum of throwing an item backwards.
- I realize Yoshi isn't on here; he can't Glide Toss. Unlike those who don't gain any distance, Yoshi cannot cancel his roll at all by throwing an item.
Thanks goes to Rapid Assassin (on June 5th) for noticing that I forgot Peach; and apparently I missed Ness, Olimar, and Pikachu as well. They've been added.
And that's all. Thanks for reading.
... Actually, no that's not all. Recently, I've compiled a rankings list of sorts, organizing the people with the longest Glide Tosses in each category. It's listed 2 posts down, right under SamuraiPanda's post.
__________________
Last edited by BurningCrusader777; 02-16-2009 at 09:29 PM.
Reason: Formatting.
Location: In Michigan with all the other Super Saiyan Pandas
Posts: 5,360
Very interesting. Nice work! This will no doubt be in my next update of the information sticky, its great stuff.
I do have a suggestion though: Try to make a system to assign the distance to numbers. Expressing the the distance with a number is most efficient, easier to refer to, and much faster read.
And... Here are the ranking lists for each of the four Glide Tosses, listed in Tier format! However, before reading this over, take note: this list is based solely on distance. No other factors were in consideration. As many Diddy mains will attest to, a medium length Glide Toss (generally those in Low and Mid Tiers as listed here) is better for spacing purposes and controlling movement.
God Tier = 6 or more (only one Glide Toss is up this high.)
Top Tier = 4.5 or more (Very few are up here)
High Tier = 3.5 or more (These guys are usually very close to Top.)
Mid Tier = 2 or more (Average length Glide Toss. Nothing special.)
Low Tier = 1 or more (Most Glide Toss Lengths are here)
Bottom Tier = Less than 1; non-zero. (A lot are here too.)
Garbage Tier = No distance. (ouch.)
Non-Existent Tier = Yoshi (No, seriously. He can't cancel his roll.)
FORWARD GLIDE TOSS God Tier
Nope, not here.
Top Tier
1.) Pit
2.) Metaknight
High Tier
3.) Donkey Kong
4.) Sonic
5.) Mr. Game & Watch
6.) Falco
Suggestion:
* Get a capture card/Someone with a capture card
* Capture video at a high resolution (640x480?)
* Choose Yoshi's story
* Use the same computer dummy (human control) for all tests
* Have the computer dummy roll onto the edge of the platform (and stay there)
* Roll onto the edge (not on the platform) on the other side of the stage
* Glide toss
* Rinse and repeat with all characters
* View captured video
* Start counting pixels!
I've been using this with Pit quite a bit against R.O.B.s. So much so in fact I included it in my latest UndrWorld video. If anyone is interested in seeing how far Pit travels, click the link below. ^_^
Do they still have the ground distance travelled stat they had in Melee that measured ft/m or whatever that name/character had gone? You could run a name for each player to get a few trials per match on a character (to make sure you get the max distance you can on one of them), and it would give you an exact measurement. Could make one a Peach on a team by themself or something to supply the others with items to throw without moving from their starting positions, and then SD to end the match.
But yeah, you should indicate the distance by percentages. (Middle of DF = 50%)
My analysis (posted in my previous reply) measures each Glide Toss' distance numerically by the number of FD "sights" the character travels. It also measures the distance of all three types of glide-toss (forward, reverse, backward). The formatting sucks and the character names aren't in alphabetical order, but it's hard data nonetheless.
As a follow-up to my previous post, basically, here's what I'm doing... not done yet, and I probably won't be for some time. Luckily, I'm completely free tomorrow, so...
Like I said, I made the stage. Along with the blocks, I placed sets of spikes above each one so that I could stand on the blocks with the spikes one square above. It's just for more precision; I made each spike interval (gap-spike-gap-spike being four intervals) equal .0714, which is approximately 100/14, which is the number of intervals.
It's going to take me some time, but it'll be a lot more precise. I've tested with Forward, Backward, Forward Reverse, and Backward Reverse. That also brings up another point; all the "backwards" listed in the OP (before the mass overhaul, which is what is currently up) were actually Backward Reverse. There's a big difference for some characters, with Luigi being one of them and most noticeable so far. His GT value for Backward is only .357 (up to interval five on the first set of spikes), but his GT value for Backward Reverse is a huge 6.0714 (six blocks, and up to interval one on the first).
__________________
Last edited by BurningCrusader777; 06-12-2008 at 12:25 AM.
Reason: disambiguation.
Wow, you're going all out on this. Truly incredible. Let me know when you're done - I'll add this thread to the Glide Tossing entry in the Compilation.
Glide Toss Lengths [UPDATED JUNE 11: Glide Toss "Tiers" ]
Recently, I've compiled a rankings list of sorts, organizing the people with the longest Glide Tosses in each category. It's listed 2 posts down, right under SamuraiPanda's post.
Linear Mode
