Bizzare Landing Lag Glitch

goodoldganon · Jun 2, 2008

Well, I was reading the Ganondorf forums and it seems a fellow Ganon main CluelessBTD discovered an odd glitch Ganon's recovery that adds lag to the next time he lands on the ground.

Whenever Ganon uses a special (Up-B or Over-B) to recover he should sweetspot the edge. Upon landing from the ground the next time you are in the air, you will experience the lag you would experience from normally landing from these specials. There is no way to 'erase' this lag. Even if you roll, jump, or attack to get up from the edge. You will always experience this lag the next time you jump and land.

Hopefully that explains the problem, but I have linked the original thread for another explanation.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172829

I went to do some testing and and realized the following characters experience this odd glitch. This is also effecting Ganon, Wolf, Mario, Luigi, Fox, Falco, Marth, Capt. Falcon, Charizard, Squirtle, and Lucario. I did this by testing the time it took for the character to shield after doing an aerial as well as an airdodge then shield.

Feel free to further test my findings, I'm open for critiques or changes to my findings. This is the first time I have ever done any serious Smash Bros. research. :laugh:

EDIT: You can erase this lag by landing an aerial that would normally be laggy. A good example would be to use Ganon f-air or Marth's n-air.

CluelessBTD · Jun 2, 2008

Aww, you beat me to posting this thread. Thx for linking the other one BTW.

goodoldganon · Jun 2, 2008

CluelessBTD said:
Aww, you beat me to posting this thread. Thx for linking the other one BTW.

I'd love to say I found it first, but I'm not an ***. :chuckle:

Besides, you explained it better then I did.

goodoldganon · Jun 2, 2008

Bumping this, I feel it should be known.

Earthbound360 · Jun 2, 2008

Hmm... this sounds like the Sonic spring glitch. If you land on the stage at the peak of the spring jump, the next time you take to the air, Sonic will fall as if he just spring jupmed.

So this is bad right? That sucks.

Tenki · Jun 2, 2008

The Sonic Air Trip glitch is similar, yes. His 'tumble helplessly' state is 'passed on' to his next aerial jump if he hits land before it starts.

In this sense, your landing lag from your special attack is passed on to the next time you're in the air, even if you sweetspot the ledge.

adumbrodeus · Jun 2, 2008

Agreed...

I'm gonna try to find out how this works with ISJR and SJR, hopefully the game counts it as hitting the ground and cancels the lag, but it might just maintain the lag, or worse, it might prevent usage of the AT until you touch the ground.

FzeroX · Jun 2, 2008

this has been known

after any special that will put you into a vunerable fall state, (ie. up b with most characters) you will experiance the landing lag next time you LAND, meaning you can cancel it out with an aerial, but if you don't cancel it then next time you LAND you will experiance the lag

emphasis on LAND

adumbrodeus · Jun 3, 2008

Ok, we got something.

Turns out you can SJR to stall the lag, unfortunately it doesn't cancel, but if you ISJR you can stop the lag until it's safe to take it. Definitely useful.

SJR/ISJR overview

Post about testing along with a way to test yourself

goodoldganon · Jun 3, 2008

FzeroX said:
this has been known

after any special that will put you into a vulnerable fall state, (ie. up b with most characters) you will experience the landing lag next time you LAND, meaning you can cancel it out with an aerial, but if you don't cancel it then next time you LAND you will experience the lag

emphasis on LAND

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if you are telling me I can do an aerial to cancel the lag then you are wrong. As I said, I tested this also using some characters auto-canceled aerials. Like Ganon's D-Air. I still got lag when I landed the attack. But as I said, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Yuna · Jun 3, 2008

Another completely useless glitch that's bizarre, illogical and could probably easily be fixed? Colour me shocked.

No, really, some of these glitches are just so bizarre it makes you wonder how the hell they programmed the game and how the hell they missed them. Or maybe it's not even a glitch. Maybe Sakurai thought we should eat the lag.

GoForkUrself · Jun 3, 2008

That explains a lot. I thought I was just screwing up Ganon's Dair sometimes, but I guess it was this glitch. Definitely good to know, cuz if Ganon misses a laggy dair, he is dead.

Brahma · Jun 3, 2008

How is this effected by ISJR? Does this by any chance cancel it out?

Dark Sonic · Jun 3, 2008

goodoldganon said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if you are telling me I can do an aerial to cancel the lag then you are wrong. As I said, I tested this also using some characters auto-canceled aerials. Like Ganon's D-Air. I still got lag when I landed the attack. But as I said, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Ganon's dair does not auto cancel. You are finishing the dair before you land, which is completely different from auto canceling.

Use you least laggy aerial (when you land in the middle of it) and compare the lag times between that and the up B.

It's most noticable with Marth as autocanceling a nair (after the first hit) has virtually no lag, but still eliminates the left over up B lag.

You have to make sure you land during the aerial, not after the aerial.

Marth players have been doing this...forever. Though I was suprised that it affected other characters as well. There was even a thread about it in the Marth boards.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167002

Credit to Ankoku

manhunter098 · Jun 3, 2008

Just a thought, but could you erase the landing lag with a move that truly auto-cancels, like Falco's Laser?

goodoldganon · Jun 3, 2008

^^^^
I'll look into it this afternoon.

manhunter098 · Jun 3, 2008

Alright, it does not cancel the landing lag. So there really is no way to avoid it.

hotgarbage · Jun 3, 2008

Good find to those who found this. That pisses me off though, what a fat load of crap. THIS is the reason Nintendo needs to wake up and actually support their games. (via DLC of course)

Magus420 · Jun 3, 2008

Sonic Wave said:
Ganon's dair does not auto cancel. You are finishing the dair before you land, which is completely different from auto canceling.

If it finished you should be able to SH d-air and double jump before landing. Unless there are absolutely no IASA frames at all and a SH's airtime happens to be the exact number of frames as the d-air, but I don't believe you can jump out of it heading down a slightly downward slope either to give an extra 1-2 airtime.

adumbrodeus · Jun 3, 2008

manhunter098 said:
Just a thought, but could you erase the landing lag with a move that truly auto-cancels, like Falco's Laser?

Nope, checked it with wolf's bair 2 minutes ago. You get the lag anyway.

Brahma said:
How is this effected by ISJR? Does this by any chance cancel it out?

Nope, but using it allows you to delay the lag indefinitely, in other words, if you know it you can ISJR until it's safe to take the lag.

Magus420 said:
If it finished you should be able to SH d-air and double jump before landing. Unless there are absolutely no IASA frames at all and a SH's airtime happens to be the exact number of frames as the d-air, but I don't believe you can jump out of it heading down a slightly downward slope either to give an extra 1-2 airtime.

I'm almost positive it's the exact number of frames because you can get an extra jump on a slope. I just checked it on green hills, unfortunately my timing is somewhat... less then perfect so I can't be positive on smaller slops, but you can jump after you short hop it in Green hills.

Magus420 · Jun 3, 2008

Are you sure it wasn't a SJR or buffered instant double jump? It was also on part of the slope that was only a few degrees off from flat right? The reason being that many moves can have AC windows that are as little as 1-3 frames.

If that really is the case that's extremely odd, considering only 2 out of 125 moves legitly didn't have end ACs before, and the vast majority had IASA frames. To fall under both of those conditions and happen to be the exact same duration as a shorthop seems like a bit of a stretch, but I suppose it's possible.

adumbrodeus · Jun 3, 2008

Magus420 said:
Are you sure it wasn't a SJR or buffered instant double jump?

If that really is the case that's extremely odd, considering only 2 out of 125 moves legitly didn't have end ACs before, and the vast majority had IASA frames. To fall under both of those conditions and happen to be the exact same duration as a shorthop seems like a bit of a stretch, but I suppose it's possible.

I sincerely doubt it was a buffered anything based on the timing of my jump command, I waited until the move had ended.

I don't pretend to be good enough to have frame-perfect execution though, so you can test it for yourself as confirmation.

StripesOrBars · Jun 9, 2008

Brawl is awesome.

Way better than Melee.

(eat **** Sakurai)

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