The Lucario Playstyle Thread: Clean-up! Clean-up! (editing some of the sections)

K, so I said that I would do this eventually, so here goes:

Ever wanted to know the classification of Lucario playstyles? Look no further! This thread will tell you about the general playstyles of Lucarios, their strengths, their weaknesses, and what can be done to transition into a different style.Character based strategies are at the bottom, and I hope everyone will contribute to the discussions, as most of you prolly know other chars more than I do.


Disclaimer: This should not truly define ur Lucario, only to mold ur Lucario to see where u sort of gauge, and then see what happens. Also, I will be updating this, so add comments for good information!(Yay! my first major contribution to the Lucario forums)! Also, I'm obviously not the Moses of the Lucario strategies, so don't think that "thou shalt not" or any of that jazz if it's not found here.


1. Why Lucario? (an orientation)

A: Are you kidding me? The real question should be,"Why not Lucario?" Anyways, if you have been reading up on Lucario, you should know that Lucario is regarded to be one of the most versatile and flexible characters around, almost a Mario in regards to even physics!

Pros:

~Lucario is very versatile, 'nuff said, and we'll get into more detail soon.

~Lucario has a good air game. No truly obsolete aerials are found in Lucario's arsenal.

~Lucario has mindgames; he has freaky edge mindplays, and all sorts of feints and killer punishes.

~Lucario has a decent ground game. Lucario's fsmash has astounding effects, including pushes that prevent shield grab punishes. His standard A is beastly, his specials are at home in both the air and on the ground, and his tilts are very good. His grabs are hard to land because of the range, but can provide a plethora of opportunities once exploited.

~Combo power. Lucario has been dubbed by many to be a great stingbo-utilizer, which is quite rare in Brawl.

LP4Life666 said:

I think you should definitely put "Deceptive range" as one of Lucario's overall pros.

Also you might also want to make a note of lingering hitboxes and "slow-moving projectile" as well.

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~Projectile has nice shieldstun, allowing for nice follow ups.


I'd like to go on, but then this would turn into the "why Lucario is Awesome" thread. Now onto criteria:

Balanced:
Many fall into this category. I myself lean a bit into this, and find that Lucario imitates 2 martial arts styles that I am actually familiar with myself. The first is Shaolin chuan'fa, which relies on versitality to overcome, and uses every trick in the book to flow and change into other styles to keep opponents guessing.
Now, onto the criteria:

Generally, these Lucarios will use attacks to put pressure, and limit the opponent's options, while retaining theirs. Many will use BAS (although more situational)/AS, and use all they know in the field to use them (b-reversal charging, turnaround shenanigans, etc.). They can use a variety of approaches, ranging from RAR'ed bair, SH dair, ftilt, running grab, FP, SH fair, or even standard A combo, with it's variations. These players will use SH, full jumps, run, roll, and fox-trot to get to the target, and might launch an attack. Other times, they might just wait until an opening is exposed, and then capitalize with throw into aerials, or the previously mentioned tactics. Of all the categories, these will obviously be the most unpredictable and deviant Lucarios. Sometimes using the IASA on ftilt and fsmash can really pull through with these characters, since the push from fsmash or ftilt tempts people to get in aura blasting range and then you can usually follow up with ftilt/dtilt/grab/jab/...
My key word for describing this style is pressure. More often than not, these lucarios will try to vary their spacing and buffer all sorts of things to stay right out of the opponent's range while working in theirs, and will try limiting the opponent's options to get the means accomplished to win.

Advantages:
~No true weaknesses exposed for very long.

~If an opponent has adapted, they will be pummeled by something new.

~makes use of the full arsenal of Lucario.

~Often the most described type of Lucario on the threads, so pretty easy in some ways to learn.

Disadvantages:

~No specialized strengths, and sometimes have to change for characters that either force a strong approach or shut down many options.

~Opponent might just plain beat you from stretching out your style this way.

~Hard sometimes to maintain.

~Human error (ie. it is hard for many people to keep being tactically random while maintaining stability, and many tend to "semi-spam" certain moves). More often player error than metagame, though.

Suggestions: Well, kind of hard to critique, but learn to spread evenly, keep pressure, and learn to hold "the eye of the Lucario" (que Eye of the Tiger music), meaning that you have to survey the statistics on and off the battle. Don't be afraid to try something new or switch into something more specialized, as long as you are not going into "panic-mode" and semi-spamming certain moves. You should try to "feel the weight" on every move, option the opponent will do in reaction to the use, and find what to mix up or to follow with.

Offensive:
While still considered somewhat "balanced", these Lucarios are far from it. These Lucario's go berserk on you, and half of the time, you wonder if the player is being possessed by a demon or something. Regardless, players like Azen are considered by some to fall in this category. Although I do not practice the martial art anymore, the offensive Lucario could be similar to "Muay Thai".

Criteria:

These are just sad, strange, little anthropomorphic pyromaniacs. These will use some of the good fair strings, nair, basically, all of the airs in some way. If the balanced guys give them a meal of the blue burners, then the offense will give them an all-you-can eat buffet! These capitalize on getting damage racked up and zoning where the opponent is weak. In general, these guys break everything, ranging from opponent's rhythm to the opponent's skull. Some will use AS, probably more a little differently, to add damage and opportunities. standard A combos and variations are great to these guys, and love to get their paws all over the opponent. Ftilt, utilt, and dtilt are key for these players, as all sear the opponent well, and follow up with a good aerial game. These guys are also Maestros at the scales of edgegames. Start revving up the pseudo WOP, because once they fall away, Carpe deim! Smashes are used occasionally in these critters, although Fsmash and Dsmash (depends on situation) are great for finishing. Nair will be crucial to learn, as it allows lucario to initiate his strong ground-to-air-to-ground-again strings, and compensates for the lack of multiple jumps. In the wanted ads, this is how it should look like: Someone who just want to put as many flame marked-holes the size of Iowa blasted through the foe.

Advantages:

~Often will force your opponent to go into panic-mode. Even if they maintain, they will still be on the defense, and most characters are not suited to this playstyle.

~The best defense in many cases is a good offense.

~Offensive measures are mindgames, only they get directly knocked in the head by them.

~It scares the crap outa anyone who hasn't seen the power of a flaming, rabid, jackal martial arts master (that description is just scaring me, now that I think about it ).

~Quite easy to learn, considering how many combo threads there are, and you have uber videos! not entirely, you really have to keep thinking of the possibilities and always watch for what move works on the go.

~Unpredictable, if done right.

Disadvantages:

~Defense is lacking, and sometimes, your offense will just have to take backseat in some matches and instances, like near high percentages.

~Predictable, generally speaking, and if it isn't done right, will go punished.

~Sometimes, it's just outright bad to be offensive against some characters.

~Any good player will not let you continue the easy way, so you'll have to keep on it.

~Messing up is often hurtful.

Suggestions: Sink or swim; either maintain extreme offense, or switch around a bit. Improvise where you see fit. On the edge, adjust to the character you're fighting against. Learn to occasionally throw them off, by using shield, ftilt, pivot grab, etc. You will need to master the edgegame for gimping some, and often, you will need to pull out every mental stop to succeed.
The key word here is break. Break the momentum, break the defense, whatever it takes to get the setup in, do it if it's still plausible in the matchup. Learn to mix in every followup, including AD to get into his bad zone, because lucario up close is almost like a sheik in the zone area.

Defensive: One martial art that I do recognize being similar to this is Wu-tang/taijiquan. These guys like to be aura campers, letting the enemy come to them and reveal weakness, and then choke out the problem. These guys like turning pressure on and off to disorient and keep the battle in their favor.
Criteria:

Lucario, in my opinion, attacks like an entity of water, ironically. his moves swirl and flow, and even his hand movement is similar to "flowing water". With that said, one who adopts this mentality should know that Lucario is quite suitable for this. Often, these players will use their shields extensively, and often attack/grab out of it. On top of that, they might use AS/BAS to stay opponents away from them, giving them full control, or sometimes, momentum to turn into an assault. These characters will use Fsmash, ftilt, dtilt, utilt many times to break out and counter to attacks. Aerials will be used for making walls and preventing approach, displacing the enemy for a solid base, or breaking out of an offense. Speaking of which, defense is often used as a transitory, finishing part of the Lucario repertoire. Often, the defensive Lucario will employ teh diabolical mindgames, and frustrate the opponent. When near the edge, the usually use similar edgeguards, but will occasionally use the extreme-hog, which is fun btw. They will need to learn and master Perfect shield, roll dodge, or spot dodge in many ways. They won't often go out of their way to chase, because they is chill.

Advantages:

~Usually, defense is easier to transition out of than offense.

~Allows for a clearer view of the game, and often helps against "panic-inducers" like marth, wolf, MK, snake, etc. (btw, I'm not trying to be biased, just stating that when ur not focused on pressure and damage, a more natural tendency is to be watching movement and weakpoints, otherwise, what's the point of going on the defensive?)

~Defense is hard to get around.

~Brawl is campy game, therefore, defense is campy style.

Disadvantages:

~Hurt much? Not so much.

~It is very telegraphed.

~Umm, Some people love to kill defense, despite it being a rarer style.

~Against someone who can take your aura and be able to counter with as much pressure, you are usually forced to turtle and cramp your game, thus limiting your options and hopes to turn around.

Suggestions: Work on living! If that means learning to curve your extreme-speed, or perfectshielding, or mastering ultimate DI, then do it! Defense is at it's appex if ur on high percents and against characters forced to approach. For defense, I don't suggest predictability, because that is just screaming to get punished. Any questions?

Now that I've covered basic playstyles, let's see how they manage against another character.

1. Snake
Snake is a beast, and if you haven't seen the posts, he's running a big taco stand. While a well versed Snake is hard to destroy, there is still a fighting chance. When fighting against a generally accepted higher tier, one's most powerful weapons are a calm mind, and an analyzed playing field.

Balanced Lucario
When fighting against Snake, One must remember that ur projectile is actually a pretty useful thing against his specials, as it halts grenades, blows them at a distance, and disrupts his mines. Learn to keep attention on Snake, as most will take opportunities from distraction to set the field for their favor, and learn when to approach and when not to. You know that since he's pretty heavy, many combos work on him quite well, and while he is hard to KO, keeping a good pressure, not to mention avoiding powerful punishers. Luckily in Brawl physics, the shield has become a much better tool, and learning when to use it is vital. If snake is getting grabby, remember that A: ftilt, dtilt, and fsmash are great tools against an approaching grab, and B: when push comes to shove, use utilt to raise his percentages, and C: if you're going to attack, don't do the "dair spam" on a shield, as they will punish you with a grab when you hit near the ground. His aerial game, while devastating, can be averted, as long as you stay cautious of attacking him head on. An AD approach is usually good against his aerials, since most have long lag. If he gets the best of you and works up the field with mines and such, don't lose your cool, learn how to maneuver around the obstacles or how to disperse them (whether removing harmlessly or luring snake to his death) while maintaining a difficult approachability. I'll remind everyone again, that when your character seems at a disadvantage, that is when one's mettle is put to the test.

Offensive Lucario
I will say this, if you know how to get the pressure on snake, do it. Otherwise, you won't be able to. For the record, if you do a roll dodge then punish, use a tilt to punish, not a smash. With that said, use tilts like ftilt to rack up quickly, and grabs on snake. Since he's quite comboable, use whatever combos you wish. If he escapes, add more pressure. In the air, watch out for his high priority, long hitboxed bair and uair. Like I said for balanced, if you fake out sometimes with a AD, since Snake has lag on those aerials, It's far easier to punish. FP is a good tool if he pulls out his shield often, and if he starts camping, either disperse some traps with BAS, roll, perfect shield approach, or the air are all good options. When percentages get higher, nairs/bairs are a good replacement for fairs in what aerials are to be used. Watch for traps, and if he starts to bait you out, either pressure with BAS, dairs, or tilts, or wait for his move, and then go on the offensive. Luckily, while Snake is a KO monster, he has slight bits of lag to attend to. Another note, on edgeguarding, be wary, as aerials from snake are often spontaneous and deadly. Overall for Snake, you either have to get attacks in fast, or wait him out.

Defensive Lucario
Snake is a toughy for defense. His advantage is best when you give him time. if you really have to, stay just out of reach from him and watch what he does. Always keep him under a "Cold War" mentality, and wait until he chokes. grabs, tilts, whatever is in your arsenal to punish his attacks, just keep in mind that you are dealing with a powder keg, and consistently, he will try to out maneuver you too. The great thing about many of Lucario's attacks, is that some are safe on block. All I can say is, learn the mindgames of Lucario, keep a calm mind, and you'll stand a chance. Learn the edge game, and also learn to compose into different attacks, as Snake can be Comboed relatively without difficulty. Remember to get in grabjabs while grabbing him, as you'll need your attack decay to be at a minimum. Faking with SHAD, SH, and even AS charges can get the edge on Snake.

Kitamerby said:

Also, on the Defensive, remember that Snake can't instinctively duck under Aura Sphere, and even though grenades go through them, you can spam Aura Sphere faster than he can spam grenades, unless he tries throwing them as soon as he plucks them, at which point you just throw them back. Snake really is a tough project to stay defensive on, though, as most Lucario mains are used to their opponent naturally coming to them if they play defensive...

I'd never recommend playing purely defensive against a Snake, at any point in the match unless you somehow force him to lose his bearing and he becomes aggressive (in which case you just won the match, anyways, although if this happens, you're either a master at Lucario, or your opponent sucks).

I've fought a few pretty good Snake users, and I just have to say that a full, well-thought-out Offensive or Balanced style usually is the best way to play the match. If you give him time and space, he'll begin setting up the stage in his favor, and you'll have a tough time closing in. Just remember that there's a difference between a stupid offense and a well-thought-out offense, so don't just run into an Ftilt. That's stupid. Also, your Fsmash outranges his Ftilt(!), and if you're fighting a gutsy snake, don't whiff a usmash or roll behind him at any time(as usual, but this is even more important), as his fsmash, if given time to perform, is the fourth strongest move in the entire game (only D3 Fsmash, Ike's Eruption, and Ike's Fsmash are stronger, but these are only SLIGHT differences, like 2-5% fully charged). Luckily, it's the most rarely used move in his entire arsenal, although keep it in mind that some Snake's WILL go for it and you WILL die if you get hit.

All in all, keep up the pressure, but do NOT let him hit you, as tough as that sounds, as he has many very strong, very quick moves that will kill you (which means no aura boost!) if you let them.

Lastly, Fsmash! Fsmash! Fsmash! Fsmash! Fsmash helps you so much in this fight it isn't funny regardless of your style! Fsmash outranges him, will do mondo damage, and means you're out of Utilt and Ftilt range!

Click to expand...

Timbers said:

I think you should put Snake's bullsh*t tilts under deceptive range >: \

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Yes, lotta range, his have.

2. Marth
This guy mirrors a lot of our moves, but he's like an overall longer ranged version of us. He's got a 'ho lotta priority, good spacing game, and many quick kills which could upset your aura boost factor. As a Lucario/Marth mainer, I suggest that Marth is not to be trifled with. He's essentially got three things that aren't going so hot for him:
a. he's got a mediocre grab game, besides for set ups, he won't be using this as his trump card over you.
b. his Fsmash < your Fsmash. range and all.
c. he has no projectile. He has ways around those who do, but keep this advantage in mind, it might just help.

That being said, let's see the matchup to playstyle:

Balanced Lucario
Overall, it's really hoping for an opening. Marth is gonna keep you at bay with his attacks, and will pressure you to get slices in. many times, a good projectile use is good for keeping him distracted to get an opening in. Just because he doesn't have a projectile or reflector doesn't mean he can't deal with them. He'll probably fan (meaning, he'll cancel with a swipe), perfectshield approach, hop, or SHAD. many allow an opportunity to dodge/jump/shield, then punish with a tilt or such. His jab is nowhere near as useful as yours, so keep that in mind. Your grab game is possibly one of the pluses against him. I've personally found that grab releases place most opponents perfectly into a sideB grab, AS, jab, or tilt. Remember the lingering hitboxes, and also that while he's got a better air game, be smart with your aerials (like waiting/baiting) or get them in early to get the pressure in.

Offensive Lucario
Contrary to Snake, Marth is one char that offense is not always the best option. To perform well, you must punch holes in his frames, dance around, and once you get an opportunity with something like a jab/tilt, etc. don't phail. Remember all the attack combos, watch out for the rogue Dolphin Slash, as it is a good combo breaker. Grabs will help, and setups are necessary. remember that fsmash will be important, as well as dsmash and DT, to clear him out. dair finishes are also great in the beginning. Keep your wits about, and you will torch him.

Defensive Lucario
Defense, while still a problem with dealing with Marth, is still a doable option. There are three dilemmas concerning your shield/dodges. His neut. B is infamous as the quickest way to eat a shield up. He'll try sneaking it in if he sees you going defensive. If you can perfect shield it, that's a good option, but if not, rolling and stand dodge work. Side B is his other defense killer. It's a good damager, mind game option (he can withdraw, especially on the third strike), and it's a decent killer. He'll punish your dodges with this attack, but if you're caught, DI away from the pokey thing. Last, his nair is an essential anti air dodge, which means you'll have to keep your wits about you when in the air, as that's one of your options to sneak an attack in. Remember the setups, the grab game, and disruptions, and you'll hopefully scrounge up a victory.

3. Meat Knight
Yes, I intentionally spelled that wrong. This guy is an X factor for everyone. For some, he's their worst nightmare, but for others, they use Lucario as an intentional counterpick for this char. He's similar to Marth in many ways, but he has a wicked air game, good approaches, and a decent grab game. For good references to someone who seems to have no problem with MK, see AZEN's vids. He's a tricky one to edge guard against, as he has uber edge skills. But luckily, he has relatively little when it comes to countering our more traditional methods (like AS). He'll regardless be a tough fight nonetheless.

Balanced Lucario
As a Lucario, it is your duty to make them eat a few BAS. I mean, both MK and AS are blue balls of energy, it's only fair for them to have a family reunion. remember that jabs can break many things, but for the most part, watch out for stringed attacks, and use many of the tilts to your advantage. While he does have a decent air game, your's is in many regards matchable. Luckily, in terms of living, only three moves are considered decent "killers" for MK's trying to finish the job. UpB, while scary, can be worked around, and if you keep cool, you may find yourself alive from the aftermath. Dsmash is on the other hand, moar horrific for you. remember to keep him at bay with all sorts of contraptions. Lastly, utilt, while a close up attack, is a decent killer for MKs trying to kill floaty chars (like us -.-). Keep away, remember that most approaches will be cancelled with a good punish, and pray that he doesn't kill you.

Offensive Lucario
What I've seen, it's a bit of a mix up of who you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. MK, while fast and quit ranged, can be crushed with the right amount of pressure and timing. Your dair will see much more action compared to Marth, and nair is a decent SH'ed aerial. Note that at a higher percent, uair can be a kill move near the "ceiling" of the map. Now on the ground, remember that Fsmash is a good usable tool in keeping him at bay, especially if he pulls a premature Mach Tornado. His side B is only going to be thrown out there every once in awhile, so punish it at the end with an ftilt or jabs. Utilt will be key to upping his percents in the early game. ftilt if I haven't mentioned it before, is good at early games for a rush attack, just as long as you space it right. Oh, and near the edge, watch out for pivot grabs, because MKs know they love their back throws to set you up for a suckered Shuttle Loop. When going offensive near the edge, remember that your projectile is pretty good for keeping him away, and if needs be, use dairs and hopefully score the KO whether early or late in the game. Your projectile will be crucial in keeping up and burning with him. grab games can be attempted, but keep in mind that MK won't be up for play with the range of your grab (it's tiny, as we've all noticed). DT, Fsmash, uair, dsmash, and usmash are among some of the more reliable ways of killing the Meat K.

Defensive Lucario
Defense is to say in the least, difficult for a Lucario to maintain against a veteran MK. Still, it is a doable and rewarding style (prolly the only way to fight MK). When fighting, realize that there's going to be a huge ratio difference between his attack opportunity and your counter attack opportunity. let's see the stack up. watch out for upB, dsmash, nair, and utilt for finishing, as nair displaces rather well, and eats up a lot of percentages, and his others are more common kill moves. keep a certain distance, since despite lucario's "feel" of a close fighter, he's deceptively long in range. Avoid "whiffing" around a MK, since it will be the last thing you do. When doing tilt comparison, it is better to move from a tilt than to shield it necessarily, as the MK can follow up with grabs. AS are decent for making room, as he's got relatively little to fight it with. remember to use the shield well, and know when to hold your ground (like shielding a mach), and when to roll/run (when ftilt tries to bite you). Since it's a bit of known knowledge that lighter chars tend to get KO'd vertically more often, try the uair, or even the usmash/DT, for ground kill.

4. Falco
Falco is in the high parts of many tiers for a reason! He's got well rounded ground and air game, his projectile is a powerful shutdown, and he's got a solid metagame. Even though Falco can't perform the chaingrab on Lucario, he's still a force not to be belittled.

Balanced Lucario
Despite having a reflector, BAS/AS is not entirely shut down as an option. Just pepper him with one or two. Even if he reflects, it leaves him for the most part vulnerable. His lasers can be a nuisance, but luckily, there are a few ways to get around them. First is depending on if he's on the ground or not. If he is, then a mere SH is good. If he's shooting in the air, then make it into SHAD. Rolling works too, but remember to time them well. Last of all, you can use RDT, but use it sparingly, and he might catch on and connect with an attack at the end of it. When using aerials, remember that falco's quickest response will be bair or nair if you mess up, so watch out for these. when near him with a shield, remember to use utilt or grab followed by uthrow/dthrow to get him in the air at low %'s, and follow quickly with aerials. Your ftilt and dtilt outrange his tilts, so remember them to put some space in between both of you. Your AA combos will have to be timed correctly and with caution, as a wrong slipup can allow him to get in his standard A combo, which frankly hurts a bit. Luckily, Falco is relatively easy once you get him off the edge, as his recoveries are gimpable, and his aerials are less in range compared to yours.

Offensive Lucario
Offense has this covered. If he approaches with RAR, nail him with your own, or with fair. Watch out, he'll try to keep you on the ground where it's his advantage. remember that when he uses dthrow->dair, roll on the ground, or SH in the air. Watch out for SH nair and dair, as they come out fast and have good range. For the record, Falco's side B can be negated/destroyed by BAS, AS, Fsmash and jab, among the more easier ways to punish his side B. On the edge, he'll fight for his life, but remember to use bairs, edgehogs, and stage spike dairs, and you'll give him a run for his bread.

Defensive Lucario
Defense is sometimes the option that works against a Falco. remember that you'll be acting more on his approaches. If he doesn't prepare a boost smash, that means he's probably going to turnaround grab. He might RAR you, but remember that if you're on the ground and you make him whiff it, he'll have some slight lag compared to a different RAR. Most of the time, though, he'll try pressuring you with his lasers, which means you have to space yourself just out of his close range fighting, but enough to spring on him when he lags and tries using his laser in more confined spaces. Shield->utilt, AA combos, and grabbing will work on his more laggy things, like Fsmash, usmash, utilt, and others. Nair, bair, and dair are good for displacing him away from you when he starts going on the offense, so remember to fight his aerials with yours instead of AD, since one of his more often used aerials is a nasty multihitter that can string into several attacks. Dair and fair are decent for warding him from getting to close to you.

5. Burger King

oops, I meant King DeDeDe
He's not so lean, he's rather unmean, and the only thing he's got right is that he's a chaingrab machine. This heavyweight has got a lot of things against you, which means you're going to have to play safe more often than not. Since D3 is famous for sitting on his fat, lazy butt, throwing waddles at you, and shielding approaches, ur going to need to bait him into a reaction more often than not. He's got a massive grab range, which means that he can even pluck you out of the air at times. He's also got a very good edgegame, be cautious when recovering, as D3 can set you up for an aerial, or grab release to a strong attack of any sort. Seeing as he has an effective damage game, as well as an excellent kill game, this means that every attack is numbered for you, so make everyone count, no whiffs. (more on styles later.)

Balanced Lucario
Essentially, D3 is defensive. His shield is ginormous enabling him to wait around for you to show him ur moves, he has a good anti camp strategy, and he's got that stupid grab game. AS is going to be hard to nail on this guy, so use it for occasional pressure reasons, to punish a spotdodge, or for a kill option. Your positioning on aerials is going to be important, because knowing when to back off is going to help you not get punished. He'll use ftilt and utilt for good anti-approaches, and his aerials will hurt a lot if you don't study his movement. His bair is going to be used plenty, as it's got good knockback, ridiculous range, and is easy to edgeguard with. He might also space a fair off the edge, so watch out for that hamma'. Don't use AAFP too often, seeing as he can still touch the ground after the second hit, allowing him to spotdodge and punish afterwards. Same thing applies to utilt, although it gets better at mid percents. Luckily do to his mediocre roll, ftilt and fsmash can be well spaced for good effect. I wouldn't use dair as spam, seeing as a good D3 knows how to bait you from dair into a chain grab.

Offensive Lucario
This match is going to be hard, very hard. Pressuring a fat, lazy, king, is like pressuring a SPARTAAAAN! king "with slavery and death". D3's got a strong defense game, complete with many shutdowns if you are not careful. Unorthodoxy in approach is key to defeating him. Luckily, his shield has the same flaws as any heavy char's shield: It can leave him incredibly vulnerable if you know where to hit.

Silvran said:

- Pressure the shield. Basic, but D3's head and feet seem to have very little coverage. Couple this with D3's grabs, and the fact that they have great range for shield grabbing, and you can actually pressure their shield enough to render it small enough to work around. For instance, I can land a hit, and possibly short hop throw an aura sphere at his head, and quite often get it to hit just the top- which is no longer protected by the shield.
- That said, approaching is a pain. Waddle Things (forward b) mean aura sphere doesn't pressure him much, and he can shield grab a lot of your moves. He has better range on his f-tilt than yours, and I think it's longer than fsmash. Use your roll, spot dodges, etc. Balanced probably has the advantage since it would probably have a better approach with defensive techs, with a slight lean towards offense- you cannot let D3 play his game.
- If they're stupid enough to try to come down on you with either up-b or d-air, you can try to u-smash. D-air might get through, but up-b will not.

Silvran said:

I got a better way to describe the anti-shield tactics I use on D3. Only reason I mention it is that they're somewhat reliant on their shields as far as defensive grabbing goes. The key I've found is to hit the pom-pom on his hat. Aim for that or his feet, and it gets way easier to go around the shield. Not quite sure how to deal with rapid spot dodges, anyone got an idea on that?

Oh, and d-air has higher priority and speed than you'd expect. Be careful when trying to clash a move with it.

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Well, there's what I can think of off the top of my head. Overall, if you can approach and keep the pressure on, you have an advantage, the approach being the key. Thing is, you'll need to balance offense and defense on the approach. I'll update this if I remember anything specific. Oh, and watch it if you're trying for a jab-jab-anything. He can easily stop it. Hope people find this useful, and take it with a grain of salt.

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Uair is not advised, or dair as well, due to D3's incredible and deceptive vertical power. His uair and dair will outrange your aerials most of the time, so either hope they whiff it a bit in the air (so you can follow up with a fair/bair), or they land with lag on the ground (try a grab or tilt after this). Grab is not going to be used very often, seeing as its wimpy range will get you in trouble against his punish game. While the grab is risky, it is very useful if you do get it. Doing so, if I can recall, you can regrab him agains after using uthrow, thus making a decent early racker, bthrow will guarantee an almost immediate opportunity to follow up, and his fthrow is good for the occasional FCAS you will want to throw out. Lucario's fair is going to be a very good aerial in this matchup, seeing as D3's big body mass will allow you to nail him over and over. Nair will help end the string of fairs. How I see it, as long as you are aware of your pressure and your approach, you can defeat D3 on the offense.

Defensive Lucario
Lucario's defensive measures can actually prove to be useful. his only threats to lure you is SH bair, spacing you near his shield, and the distracting Waddles. As a defender, it is your job to know when you are being potentially suckered for a "Waltzing shield" game. Retreat in the outer 45 degree angle of D3, and seeing how the only way he can attack you from there is either fsmash (which is not going to happen regularly), or an aerial, keep in that position. Waddles won't get you often (unless its a gordo, which is not a happy day for Lucario), ftilt is not going to hit you, and only at close range will utilt catch you. Utilize your sight and spot for a roll, SH, or SHAD, or an aerial, as that is when it will be your time to retaliate. On a side note, when D3 does his recovery, and intends to land on the stage, your Usmash will kill him. You won't need your shield too often, save it for later when his hits intend to kill you. At all costs, avoid getting grabbed, because he has so many options for his grab, most notably dthrow chain till off the edge, or grab release off the edge to attempt to out guard you. In short, stay smart, and stay floaty at about 3-4 Lucario's worth of space away at a 45 degree angle-ish away from him, and space well and properly.

btw, for all light chars, avoid using dair at higher percents, as most of the time, only the first hit will connect.

6. ROB
This char is tricky. He's got the infamous camp game to keep you under pressure, astounding range, and good aerials, all of which Lucario has as well. This bucket of bolts has many highlight attacks, like dsmash, nair, and ftilt/fair. The fact that he has strong, solid kill move, coupled with a heavy-ish wieght, means that this will be a tough fight.

Balanced Lucario
Ur BAS/AS is situationally good, but for camping purposes, it's pretty useless. a reflector, combined with a faster projectile and an "objectile" (one that has a strong priority, like Nikita), means that he can make you come to him more often than not. for pressure, it will have to be a guessing game. Dtilt, fsmash can be useful against ftilt and dtilts, and the jabs and utilt are great for when he whiffs. Use the occasional spot dodge, and when u want to approach from his camp game, you can either "powerwalk" (perfect shield walking), SHAD, RDT, or even SH. Overall, while it will be hard, don't give up, and hopefully, he'll mess up more often than u, as this is ur way to victory.

Offensive Lucario
You're going to want to avoid using fair approach too much, as his fair is pretty fast, and his grounded (not ground) game is solid. Learn his pattern and model after it. If he uses ftilts to displace, get above him quickly. If he defends with aerials/utilt, use dtilt and BAS. His grab is going to be used quite a bit for oos, and u want to get out of its range. jab, dtilt, fsmash, and utilt will be useful. Dtilt, despite not being used to often, is imo great against ROB, seing as the only reply he has (due to laggy roll and spot dodge) is use his dtilt. Your aerials, particularly bair, nair, and fair will be good against him. Don't use dair so often, as his utilt can set u up for pain. Against him of the edge, use nair and fair, but be cautious, as his aerials can repel you away. Luckily, if you take advantage of his slow upB speed, you should be fine, especially if you fire AS.

Defensive Lucario
This game is urs if you can use the aura and read his telegraphed attacks. While camping will be a problem, remember that shield is amazing for destroying his camped projectiles. Watch out for dsmash and grab, as they will be the harbinger for bad, sloppy defense. learn to use dtilt in this matchup! I can't say it enough, dtilt is one of the better options, since ftilt and utilt are too short for getting in. Once you go space camping (meaning, u learn to camp close to him, just out of his attack range, but short of his projectile range), then think about punishing with jab, and fair/nair. grab is a poor idea oos, since it has pathetic range. Fsmash is a reliable way too make sure he knows the limits of his range. Play smart, know that ROB's compensation for great range is slow, choppy attack patterns, and u should be fine.

7. Disgruntled Ice Climbers
Yup, they hate us, 'cuz we were on top of the mountain on SSE first. They also hate our aerials. But that will only increase the danger you have to face. These goons have good disjoints, rivaling ours, and have an astounding grab game. Watch out for chains, as they will build your damage up quickly.

Balanced Lucario
Just so you know, the first 50% or so will be tricky. Your AS will be negated by ice blocks, and the 2nd one will get through. Also, chaingrabbed dthrow to Nana fair will be your punishment if you don't watch out for grab. But if you are a good lucario and keep spacing just out of hammer's reach, you will find your game quite easy, especially in the air. All of the IC's aerials may have slightly more range, but they are slow, laggy, and not as punishing, whereas yours are overall better. For grabbing, you will have to throw quickly, or else the other climber will smack you one for being slow (that goes for FP as well). As for your edgegame, IC's are quite easy on the edge actually. Even tho the squall hammer (sideB) option makes landing a AS hard, your aerials are going to hassle them for quite some bit.

Offensive Lucario
Like I said earlier, your aerials are just plain better. Do you know what's fun? Dairing them, 'cuz it sends them in opposite directions. All your tilts/smashes will also compete with them. As long as you work around their shield, and don't let them get to close, you will win this game. Edge game is easy, unless you're recovering, but even then, it's not as hard as Marth. Remember spacing, and use aerial pressure that will keep them at bay without leaving you vulnerable.

Defensive Lucario
Your grab will not be very usefull against them, as pointed out, so don't bother using a slower throw like uthrow, and use others sparingly. After getting to the 50% range, know that the grabbing won't cease, but the chaining will. Yes, he will use grab for set-ups, like smashes or aerials, so watch out if they get close. For spacing they'll try to intrude with blizzard, which is manageable if you just back away or jump. You can play defensive, but realize that jab, ftilt, utilt, and fsmash will be more of ur saving grace than any grab game you've come up with.

8. Wolf
This fight is a very confusing one. Some, like Azen and Jeepy, consider Wolf to have the advantage. However, there are so many who disagree due to player skill, often with Lucario winning the match. Important tidbits of this character are his blaster, recovery tactics (like stage-scarring), and stringed attacks, to name a few. This character is very well rounded, and can prove devastating in the right hands (or claws).

Balanced Lucario
Wolf will try to use his blaster if he finds you about 3/4 of the short stage far or more, and will hope to take advantage of the slow speed projectile's properties to bait you to a nasty punish. Remember spacing! His jab comes out pretty fast, and does good damage, so learn to shield, then grab after the slight lag on the third jab (most will not use something besides the third A in the combo, something good to know). His tilts do act similarly to ours, including the double hitting ftilt. He will use the utilt to initiate aerial chase after it, but know that your aerials will trump his. If he uses bair, remember to use fair earlier. If he uses fair, a retreating fair or jump to dair will work. FP is useful on this guy at low %s for chain due to his weight properties. If you are going to use AS, remember that his reflector will speed it up, but not make it stronger per se, which is actually a good thing. If you haven't learned to use BAS to cover your approach in the air, learn to now; his downB if he uses it will only make him a sitting duck for fair approaches. If you haphazardly fire FCAS though, he will make you sorry by making you eat it.

Offensive Lucario
Bad news: Wolf has a solid ground and air game. Work your way out of jabs, try to use your fair by getting it started earlier than usual, since his bair comes out faster. bair is good for this matchup because of it's hitbox, but watch out, as he'll try his own to trump yours. If he starts getting lazer happy, just get up into the air, roll it ( I normally don't advise this, but the projectile is kind of slow, so you should be able to get in one or two), but watch out when you get close, as he might bait you for grab (his jabs are great for restoring his moves, good especially if he's been using bair, fsmash, and dsmash so much). Your ftilt is amazing, it has large range which trumps almost everything (if he fsmashes it, it will clank, then after, just shield whatever he would use after that and punish with jab). Now for the gimping game: His upB is horrible, especially at a bad angle. If he does actually use it, stop it with fair or AS, depending on where he is, and then proceed to kill him with your fantastic aerial gimp game. His sideB is something he will use if you've been hanging out edgeguarding for too long, and good wolves will use the tip to put the hurt on you and follow up with some chasing, so if you see him spacing himself at about a 35 degree angle, prepare to walk away fsmash, AS, or grab.

Defensive Lucario
Shield will be integral in this matchup, use it when he uses fsmash, dsmash, or AAA. If he intends to run his shield in front and power shield/spotdodge, use ftilt or micro dair oos to waste him. Your grab will be usefull for restoring, which is needed if you want to use fsmash to keep him out of your face. Your dthrow is probably your best throw at low %'s since his air game (especially facing forward) is bad compared to yours, and the 10% on top of whatever jabs you've done from the throw is fast damage that slips under his radar. Watch out if you are going to juggle him with utilt, at 0%, he has a landing frames, so he can punish. Also, his downB can shine you if you do any more than one or two, to make sure you let him land with what ever he'll try to "punish" with, and kill him. BAS is amazing for adding pressure, regardless of his reflector.

9. Bowser
This menace has had quite the debut this time around, and he's got the biggest eyebrows minus Ganon (since his is like a brow-beard almost). With his gargantuan girth, he comes equiped with a bag full of grab tricks, fire, and the infamous flying slam. On top of that, he's got shell skillz (that whirling fortress is quite spiky), and is more than willing to show why he's King of the Koopas. Overall, he's got no way to make you approach, but that doesn't stop him from having his fun. Learning to get around his shield and walls will help you in this matchup, and unless the bowser is much more experienced than you, you will have the advantage.

BurtonEarny said:

Bowser- great range in terms of close range moves (grab, ftilt, dtilt, jab)

Bowser mainly relies on ftilt and jab to space simply because of their good speed and range. Ftilt is an all purpose move in that it is an approach, a spacing move, a kill move, etc. So, expect it to be one of the most used moves he will be throwing at you.

In terms of approaching he has ftilt, dtilt, fair, bair, sh side b and neutral b as his best options... all of which minus the side b are telegraphed(it is fast and will catch you off guard unless you watch for it).

Oos he has a good grab release game, and his fast upb makes for a good punishing move. Make sure to avoid getting caught in the neutral b, however you can di out. fsmash is going to out range everything he has. Really you control how the pace of the match goes, because he cannot force an approach.

He has REACH so care must be taken to not underestimate it. Other than that, just wear him down by punishing the approaches that you force. Watch for low percentage kills, he is very strong and may kill you sooner than your used to if he gets to mount offense.

However, he shouldn't really ever get to mount that offense as he is too pressured from offensive lucario, and out ranged by defensive lucario(kinda).

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Balanced Lucario
Lucario has a good projectile that should be used in a careful sense. Just because Bowser isn't fast and doesn't have a reflector/magnet/bucket doesn't mean he can't deal with them much. ftilt cancels a lot of AS stuff if timed right, and perfect shield is useful for approaching us. That's why we need to use BAS for more than just spam camping, we need it to be a diversion, so that if he either eats it or negates it with shield or such, you have just limited his options for when he gets near your attack range. dancing around bowser's shield is very tricky, as the wrong move can get you upBed and vulnerable. Spacing and learning when to use your shield around bowser is crucial, as the wrong move can get you punished with upB, grab, or utilt. When you see that you are close to bowser and are using moves against his shield, don't continue unless it's a grab! If you do, he will punish you. Learning to tip fsmash will become a great asset to your game against bowser, since a tipped fsmash means that the only way he can punish you immediately after is if he perfect shielded the attack, which doesn't happen often. Learning to also punish is important, if you see bowser whiff a grab, it is important to make sure he knows he can't be sloppy. Ftilt I've found to be actually an amazing tilt on bowser, since it has very good range, comes out pretty quick for its range and damage properties (it does decent damage at low percents, and kind of bucks the "low aura" rule), has decent shield pressure properties, and can be used in place of FP chaining (since we all know that characters can wiggle out of it) and has good knockback trajectory. I consider that ASC might have good potential against a shield game, but I've not been willing to take the risk, save the exception of it for an edgeguard option (don't do it if he's recovering from the top though, as he's going to use downB, and dish out considerable damage).

Offensive Lucario
While I consider balanced to be most common state of the Lucario vs. Bowser match that tends to happen, there is room for a blazing offense. If he has used his shield for longer than a moment or you know that you've shielded his utilt/upB oos, then start off with either FP or grab! Once you have him in your paws, you must realize that you have been given... a god-given gift: The ability to start stringing attacks together like crazy. If you feel inclined to do uthrow, realize that you must follow with utilt spam, and if you do dthrow, fthrow (don't know why you'd use this much outside of a kill throw), bthrow, or FP grab, you must keep the pressure on him with fair/dair while both of you are in the air, and when at least you are on the ground, AAA, AA FP (don't do A FP, he'll use upB on the ground to punish), ftilt, or grab. If you see that he is getting away due to his increased percentage, feel free to finish with grab, jab, nair, dair, or AS. If you do not use the opportunity to add damage on, he'll become more cautious, and use his shield game again.
Now for dealing in the air: If you do want to use the air, I suggest firing BAS/AS to force a response. Depending on it, you can fair him if he jumps, or do dair for baiting out a utilt/upB. If you spaced right, you will not hit with dair, he performs without success, and you'll get the opportunity to dair again. If he still holds his shield, use your second jump to get distance, and if he tries to intercept your landing, space well for dair/fair/bair. Note that if you can spot uair coming for you, you will need to either dair (which will come out way faster), or AD. His fair comes out surprisingly fast, but our fair generally beats it. Now for offledge strategy, in the even that you make bowser get the recovering end, don't fsmash for edgeguarding if he's recovering under the stage (which happens like 90% of the time). If he is recovering under the stage, you have to space dair veeerrryy well to hit his upB while not in it's first few frames (it has uber priority at that point). If he is going above the stage, beware of downB, it autocancels into a ledge grab, fortunately, you can stop it with a well spaced fair/AS. There are a few options for anticipating his ledge getup. If he does ledgedrop-hop, expect a sideB or a fair. If he ledgejumps, he might try downB to stall, or fair again. Fsmash, shield grab, dair edge guarding, and sometimes ASC can help edgeguard.

Defensive Lucario
This kind of moulds into balanced playstyle, but it relies on observation to play it defensive with lucario. with your shield, the best uses for it are against: fair, upB oos, flame, dtilt, and ftilt. Learn to work your defensive spacing away from bowser's grab range, if he does, he can use grab release -> another grab sometimes, grab release -> jab, or grab release -> dtilt for killing. If you have to release, learn jump release strategy, it is much harder for bowser to follow our air release. Learn to AD intelligently if being juggled, mixing it up with dair, fair, and occasional nair will prevent some of bowser's nasty aerials from connecting. If you use dair to put spacing, remember that you must be lower than hop range for Bowser, but farther away than utilt/usmash range. If you find yourself needing to recover, if you can wall cling, that is sometimes a viable option against bowser edge guard options. Some of the best options though, are to use fair/ BAS while recovering to ward him off, and if he's hogging, stall your fall with dair until his invincibility frames run out, then jump -> fair/BAS before ES is used. This is usually a better option than trying to recover onstage, as Bowser might use fair or worst, sideB to go for killing. Watch out for bair offstage, it has good range and kills well, so dair stall or fair early to intercept. Of all the ledge options, hopping seemed the most plausible and safe, as dair comes out too quickly for bowser to usmash/utilt it. If he does get smart and waits to do punishing oos options, then the next best try is to either ledgedrop-hop a fair or use the occasional getup attack if he doesn't do shield.

10.Kirby
Kirby sucks. No literally, he SUCKS! Well, this puffball is prepared with an arsenal that is quite flexible, ranging from decent kill options (fsmash, air hammer) to great aerials. While I haven't played against him much (I only fought t!mmy like once), Kirby has quick options and can keep you on your toes if you don't watch it. His grab game is pretty good, with nice follow ups and with a good edge game, you can tell that it will be difficult for lucario off stage. Our AS ability is one of Kirby's better copy abilities, since the AS copy ability has a set damage equivalent to lucario at about 100%.

Balanced Lucario
The name of the game is range. AS is just great in this matchup, makes the forecast clear of SH attempts. Kirby as we all know, is incredibly agile in the air. This being the case, when you wall a bit with aerials, make sure you have used AS to limit his aerial options, as one opening could mean tilt/bair misery for you. When in the fray, realize that spotdodge is a great tool against kirby, and the great times to deploy it are after lucario fsmash, utilt, shield, and jab. Spotdodge is really good against Kirby because our relatively fast spotdodge allows us to retaliate after kirby's tilts, which means he will have a much harder time getting us in the air to rack up damage on us. If you use spotdodge predictably though, Kirby will start to use QDA (tap on control stick then immediately down on cstick) which will accumulate damage afterwards crazy fast, and he will also start using fair, dair, and occasionally at high percents, sideB if you do become predictable with spotdodge/AD. Our fsmash is the bane of this stubby character, the only reaction he can effectively do if you space poorly with it is SH aerial. At low percents, he will attempt to grab you for quite a bit, but since his ground speed is not so hot, you can spotdodge not needing to worry about pivot grabbing. If you do get grabbed, Kirby will tend to make you go up into the 40's ish in percent with fthrow, buffered uair string, and if you aren't careful, he'll get you in it again. While on the topic of grab, Ted has an interesting little tidbit that might factor in Kirby's favor:

tedward2000 said:

Also, staying away from grabs is a must for lucario. More so at a lower lvl, because I have found on Lucario Kirbys Dthrow to Standard B works at a low % (0-17%ish).
Thats a earily AS for Kirby.
-t2

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Another little tidbit: Lucario's copy ability is actually pretty decent for Kirby, and if you don't know about it, he uses AS with a static multiplier bonus of around 100%. Meaning if you are lower than that, you'll want to actually BAS sometimes his bigger AS, especially if you're in the 50% range, as it will sometimes cancel. At higher percents, just use the FCAS without worry.

Offensive Lucario
Yes, his bair/uair is faster than our fair/bair, but they can and will still be effective in this match. Just like Kirby and his tilt to aerial strings, once you get the mad hopper up in the air, proceed to fair him. If he approaches, bair can serve well as a wall, and since it has some windup, will hurt even if the AD. Kirby fair can be a problem for offense, as it is a useful walling aerial. Learn to bait it, then punish accordingly with fair/AS/dair. Lucario's utilt is also Kirby's bane, because even though he can't be stringed with it very high, it does become an effective anti-SH aerial deterent. jab, ftilt, and utilt will become crucial in this matchup, and while Kirby is famous for his gimping power, if you learn to be smart around the edge, you will also be a decent edgeguarder against Kirby. Fair should not be used when trying for an early gimp, as he has enough jumps anyways, instead try dair, AS, and bair. Fsmash also serves as a wicked option if they don't jump from the ledge.

Defensive Lucario
While I don't suggest "spamming" roll, it is a boatload safer in this matchup than in others. Why? Kirby is very short ranged, so if he tilts your shield you can roll away/around and get the range advantage. The reason why you don't want to spam is because Kirby does have ways for punishing roll, especially with ftilt, run usmash, or fsmash. When on the edge, learn to avoid bair -> crossover into suck up, as it could cost you a stock via Kirbycide. Remember your greatest space resetters, jab, fsmash, and bair, as using them to get a breather will be important. Like I said in the balanced section, spotdodge is invaluable to this matchup, and his only reliable punishers are QDA, dair, or ocassional hammer/charged fsmash at higher percents. By all means, if you had to choose between the two DI options for living in this match, it is much better to DI up. Usmash is pretty good, but this isn't fox we're talking about, so if you aren't being stupid with your spacing, you should hardly be hit by this. uair can't kill much anymore for kirby, but to compensate for his vertical challenges, he has a scary offstage gimp game, and good, solid vertical kills. He will occasionally use DA to punish and set up, so beware of bair. He will try to gimp early by setting up with utilt, so remember to do either and AD if you think he is going to bair immediately, or dair if he waits. If he does happen to get you offstage in a gimp situation, it's not impossible. If you have AS, get that fired when he jumps and before he is in his bair range, and when he AD's, use the time. I can't stress enough though that the two most important factors for staying alive is gaining/retaining control of the center, and DI above him unless he tries for usmash.

11.Diddy Kong
Diddy creates some of the craziest games to play. Arguably one of the most move dependent games, his bananas are a deadly combo/disruption tool. Arguably the two most play changing characters are MK, and this little monkey. His ground game is a definite power, so make sure you either cripple his banana game, or take him to the air, or he will land a large amount of percent before you can blink. His recovery options are great, his game is overall balanced, and he's got decent power on many neutral stages (though he rocks on FD).

Balanced Lucario
Okay, let's get one thing straight. You will be shifting gears, A LOT. So for the balanced portion, I'm only really going to go into anti-banana tactics, AS, and baiting more or less. To start off, you'll be needing to take up air space as much as possible, the bananas lose a lot of effectiveness when not on his ground area. That's why FD is so disgustingly in his favor. The only time you'll want to stay on the ground is charging AS at times, going for the kill, and the occasional tilt/jab use. Our aerial game is better than his, and our dair has some amazing thing it can do in this matchup. Dair is a great punisher for when he uses his dash attack to gregrab a banana, since it pops you up into the air. It's also a good aerial to regrab a banana, especially if you see him rushing in to regrab it. AD and fair are also great banana regrabs, so remember them to when approaching. In going for the kill with fsmash, since usually you will be near the kill just as much as he will, don't use fsmash like you would normally. Sit in your shield, wait for the bananas, and when he approaches, run away and use that to bait a grab or smash, then hit him with your own. On terms of AS, This is going to be very effective offstage if he attemps to use sideB first for recovery, as he can't air dodge until the flip is done, meaning a free AS eating. AS is also a decent thing to make him stop momentarily and help regain control of the match if you do it right. If you do it while he is dribbling, it's pretty much too late, however, if you attempt it too early, you can potentially nail him just as he's shifting into "banana approach" mode.

Offensive Lucario
So there's some good news and bad news. Good news is that going on the offense is still very viable vs. Diddy. The bad news is that if you don't think carefully about your options, he'll just as easily rack damage as you would him. Let's say you have a banana in your hand. This is a beautiful thing, but unfortunately, Diddy has overall a better banana game because of his DA and overall big banana grab range. So to keep a few things in mind:
-bananas don't do anything vs. shields-this is a good and bad thing. If you throw one at his shield, it almost always lands right in front of him. If you are applying enough pressure, he isn't going to be able to grab it right away. This also means that he can't approach on the ground, so what's he going to do? He'll either A. attempt to bring out another banana to pressure you with, which isn't going to happen near the ledge, and if it does, learn to punish at that time, or B. He's going to be forced to try to go aerial with you, which gives you the advantage at low percents to essentially string/combo him to high percents.
-Let's say you do nail him. What are you going to do now? Well, there's a few things that you could do. If he's far away, if you have a charged AS, you're in luck, because that is a great option when they've slipped, because if they roll away or get up stationary, they'll usually eat it, and if they roll towards you, you can anticipate it and get to the air before he prepares. If he's a bit closer, regrabbing the bananas are an ok idea, but you could also prepare an fsmash, dsmash, or use jab, ftilt, utilt, grab, or if you predict his running away, get to the air again and punish accordingly.

Defensive Lucario
Frankly, you are going to be using shield. As we talked before, shield negates the banana, and usually flops it right in front of you. This creates a whole bunch of scenarios, some of which are in your favor. Generally though, Diddy will try to get that banana back, and he'll get more desperate. If it's right in front of you, you will 90% of the time want to grab it. Shielding also reduces slipping on existing bananas that are thrown near you where normal standing would make you slip. Essentially, your shield will be used for all sorts of parts through the bananigans, whether he's throwing them from afar, camping right near you, or rushing in to regrab a banana. If you are going to be on the ground and perform effectively so, shield is one of the best answers (besides risking a mid-bananaflight regrab via jab). After it has hit you, chances are he's going to come after you or the banana, either way, he's going to get closer. That means that you will either need to roll away and charge AS more, or sit there, quickly grab the banana, and punish with banana -> AS. If he starts getting wise to you rolling away and starts chasing you hard, try the occasional rolling behind him, since he will commit most of his momentum towards your former direction and lose a lot of ground control. Luckily in terms of living, you can rest assured that his vertical kills are near moot (except for the occasional dair, which is predictable and easy to spot), so he'll be limited to fair, dsmash, bair, and the occasional fsmash. All of which are not so powerful, so you will be nearly guaranteed a life of about 140 if you DI properly. Diddy also has mediocre edge guarding, the only occasional (and risky) thing is sideB that if you are efficient in recovering, you shouldn't have a problem with.

12. Mr. Gay Men Watch
The 2D character with a 1D metagame. This guy gets on my nerves honestly, with some overall broken things that can apply to half the cast, this character doesn't need much learning when it comes to different matchups. The controversy of whether this is one of lucario's hardest matchups is up for grabs, but I say that this can be a tough fight if you've never played a G&W. Easy kills, good aerials, and one of the toughest recoveries to gimp (honestly, the two characters you should almost never try to gimp are MK and G&W) are just the tip of the retro-Iceberg. Bucket comes to mind also when fighting him, but that is only something that comes out if you're incredibly poor at hiding the AS.

Balanced Lucario
AS has been proven to be more and more useful in this matchup than previously thought. True, there is the bucket, but it is so slow that good AS habits should ever let this really be a problem. Ground game is key: G&W beats you all over the place in terms of air game, but only some of his aerials do well against grounded opponents: mainly nair and bair. Turtle is frankly better to get hit for the first few ticks then SDI out of it and punish instead of risking a shield poke. ftilt and bair are good, but also jab will be in case he messes up, and always remember how to use AS in this matchup. If you do this, it will become a much more even game, but it will require the best of your baiting abilities to catch poor spacing.

Offensive Lucario
Honestly, I don't like this idea for this matchup. The air will only be good as long as you are much better at fainting and punishing than your opponent, and you will practically have to outmaneuver his naturally better air movement. Fair can be started, but you have to be careful, and makes it so very risky. On the ground, G&W has nasty oos stuff and SH aerials that don't make it worth approaching in the air. A ground offensive can be risky too, since it will require more capitalization on his mistakes than what theory will allow. Gimping G&W is near impossible, as his recovery is rediculously good. If you do attempt to, it will be limited to lucky bairs, onstage fsmash guarding and very well placed AS (emphasis on well placed).

Defensive Lucario
This imo is easier to do. Naturally, the G&W doesn't per se have a way to make you approach, so he'll be doing it. G&W is incredibly predictable at times though, and with practice, you, yes you, can predict a G&W category 5 coming towards you! Bair is going to be pulled back if he's a good G&W, and this is very hard to punish, but occasional BAS/AS, as well as ftilt will make him more willing to become more risky. Similarly, nair will be used, although you will want to stay on the ground as long as possible, since it doesn't take much to punish your only more effective option in the air: airdodge. The main problem though is that G&W's game is very gimpy, so be smart offstage, DI up as most of his aerials don't have a very good response vs. above you and allows more options still than going under.

Hope everyone learned from this, and please, don't kill me if I'm not pinpoint accurate! I'll add updates when I can.

Now it's time to sing:
PHI1 NY3 THE SCIENCE GUY! PHIIII111 NYYY333 THE SCIIIEEENCE GUUUUY
PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1!
PHI1 NY3 THE SCIENCE GUY!
(SCIENCE RULZ)!
PHI1 NY3 THE SCIENCE GUY!
AURA IS A PROPERTY OF LUCARIO...
PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHIL! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1! PHI1!
"T-MINUS SEVEN SECONDS"
PHI1 NY3, THE SCIENCE GUY!

(sorry had to do it, man, I loved that show sooooo much!)

Wowzorz. nice thread. this will help me some on my mix-up Luc =D

also I suppose Mix-up and Tempo go into the balanced section?

Interesting post.

I would say that I am a balanced Lucario, leaning a bit towards offensive.

I've started to play a sort of defensive/offensive hybrid.

Because Lucario's attacks are so huge and blue (Not you, Nan Bread! Get back in your mango chutney bed!!) I basically use the lingering hitboxes on his offensive attacks for defense, almost constantly attacking my opponent, but keeping relatively safe in the process and also retreating more often than advancing (but still attacking at the same time). Due to Lucario's awesome spacing, this is really effective because your opponent really can't approach you easily if you do it correctly, and you can switch to offensive or defensive style whenever it suits.

NESSBOUNDER said:

I've started to play a sort of defensive/offensive hybrid.

Because Lucario's attacks are so huge and blue (Not you, Nan Bread! Get back in your mango chutney bed!!) I basically use the lingering hitboxes on his offensive attacks for defense, almost constantly attacking my opponent, but keeping relatively safe in the process and also retreating more often than advancing (but still attacking at the same time). Due to Lucario's awesome spacing, this is really effective because your opponent really can't approach you easily if you do it correctly, and you can switch to offensive or defensive style whenever it suits.

Click to expand...

Ya, I felt myself drifting in that area, because Lucarios hitboxes act like walls, and although i felt myself striking in the defense/balance, it feels similar. Updates soon, after I crack down and finish school (ugh)

I'd like to take it a little bit further. I play Lucario in stages. At the very start of a match I'll play offensively in an attempt to get off a chain grab or his other cheap and easy 0% combos. After the first hits have been landed I'll play generally and just attempt to work the enemy up while avoiding as much pain as I can. If I get the first KO, I go into defensive mode and camp and poke as much as I can in order to win by attrition.

I've gotta say it, finally.

It's BILL Nye. with a B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjpVQbNpGKo

Unless you're making a play on words and Phil's your real name or something... >,>...

I'm pure offense. That's just me. If I find that it doesn't work in the beginning I'll switch to a more defensive style though.

Ah, excellent topic. And a great ode to the best funjicational television show ever.

As for me? I'm purely offensive in my Lucario style, but the precise nuances of it will change over the course of the battle. I usually start in all-out offensive mode. In this style I seek to make holes in my opponent's defenses. I look to harry my opponent with BAS and keep constant pressure on them with Ftilts and Fair to Nair and Fair to Dair strings. With a healthy dose of AS thrown in to kick it up a notch at the end.

BAM!

Then, near the end of the match, usually on the last stock, I switch to my counter attack style. I'm not up in their face constantly, but rather darting in and punching through every weakness that I've observed in their play-style thus far. Take advantage of their every habit in movement and attack. This play-style seeks out the opponent's weakness and exploits them fully.

What's worse (for them anyway) is that the opponent will often still be fighting my old play-style and often times can't adapt in time to that Lucario that fights nothing like the one they faced a stock earlier.

Great post =D I'm not what I'd be... I guess extremely offensive with random bursts of extremely defensive play... (Or many just 'balanced') In one match for example, for the first 2-3 minutes I'd rush in and bombard my opponent (or his shield) with attacks until one finally hit thinking "If I'm not attacking, I'm not winning." Then out of nowhere I decided to play extremely defensively. I didn't approach and didn't attack, I honestly just stood in place perfect shielding/spotdodging my opponent until he was close enough to grab and even after that, I stood in place to edgegaurd him.

"Aura is the property of Lucario"
lol!

Infi-tan said:

I've gotta say it, finally.

It's BILL Nye. with a B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjpVQbNpGKo

Unless you're making a play on words and Phil's your real name or something... >,>...

Click to expand...

Umm, yes, I'm quite aware that it's BILL NYE, but I'm PHIL, and I looovvve science, so hence why I'm PHI1 NY3!

Unless you're making a play on words and Phil's your real name or something... >,>...

Click to expand...

Hence that. =O Kudos for science!

As for the topic; I find that I don't fall into any specific category. I switch around constantly depending on how well that particular style is doing in the match and how long i've been that particular style. =o Most of the time I enjoy being mindgamey-offensive. Always looking to plant a gigantic blue orb in my opponent's face.

I tend to immediately jump from one tactic to another to surprise the hell out of my opponents. Works brilliantly too, one moment they're trying to approach through a wall of BAS, F-Smash and F-air, next I'm going berserk and flinging attacks everywhere. Great fun

Kudos for the thread!! Though I kinda think there is more than balanced/offensive/defensive Lucario playstyles (say, air-oriented fighters). Actually I was hoping of posting it myself but Phi1 Ny3 beat me to it XD
What if we gave each playstyle a name with Aura in it? Say offensive/comboist Lucario's are Aura Dancers, defensive are Aura Guardians and mindgame-crazies are Aura Manipulators. just a suggestion...

Tallen said:

Kudos for the thread!! Though I kinda think there is more than balanced/offensive/defensive Lucario playstyles (say, air-oriented fighters). Actually I was hoping of posting it myself but Phi1 Ny3 beat me to it XD
What if we gave each playstyle a name with Aura in it? Say offensive/comboist Lucario's are Aura Dancers, defensive are Aura Guardians and mindgame-crazies are Aura Manipulators. just a suggestion...

Click to expand...

I certainly do like the idea. Kind of like classes in an MMORPG? lol

Oh yeah, and I posted this thread because I said I would.

*goes to grind exp*

*Downloads a bot to grind for me and goes to play brawl*

Names could be cool.

Oh and before I forget. *Drops ban-hammer on Nodrak* No using bots for grinding.

Tallen said:

What if we gave each playstyle a name with Aura in it? Say offensive/comboist Lucario's are Aura Dancers, defensive are Aura Guardians and mindgame-crazies are Aura Manipulators. just a suggestion...

Click to expand...

Sounds like fun.



No clue which of these I would be considered since I don't really follow any specific combat style throughout matches. To be honest, I was never one to have the same style throughout actual sparring matches either.

I think of these as not necessarily 3 styles, but 3 categories. From these categories, there can be a ton of different styles can be derived. It's a great post, I think you should consider expending it.

Yeah I know already that I have a defensive Lucario. I would hate to play the offensive Lucario though.

Nurotasama said:

Sounds like fun.



No clue which of these I would be considered since I don't really follow any specific combat style throughout matches. To be honest, I was never one to have the same style throughout actual sparring matches either.

Click to expand...

it doesn't just have to be "Aura" either, Wave Guiding, Wave, or Hadou works too
maybe fiery 4 the blue flames too.........................but I'm a little iffy on that 1

*raises hand* I CALL WAVE-GUIDING HERO!!
heh I think "wave" sounds cooler than aura actually, but not many people are familiar with the term.
(PS: wave-guiding hero is Lucario's title in Japan. catchy, huh?)

pivoting with lucario makes up for a very deceptive approach. When shfair+nair/dair isn't doin it for ya, try pivoting f.tilt into force palm into whatever. Give it a try, see if the extra option doesn't improve your game. Sometimes f.tilt should replace those panic'd f.smashes that happen to come out by instinct (as if it connects).

Balanced FTW

Hey man nice thread and good classification. I'd have to say im probably a balanced lucario for the most part until those high percents kick in and i do the opposite of most people, go full offense cuz i am stronger and can pwn faster

Good to see a good multi-tactic thread.

I would say I switch between offence and defence, more prone to defence though. However, my idea of defence is call "spamming aura sphere" and using some throws.

Actually, my most common tactic is to spam, throw, then go insanely offencive until we both hit the ground, and repeat if I really want to win a match.

Yeah! Nice thread, Phil!

Looks like you really took the time to dissect Lucario's playstyles. This is a great contribution to the Lucario community (if only more people had your mentality, including myself, as I'm too lazy to write something like that :^T), and it was a very nice read as well. I think I like to switch between offensive and balanced--I generally dislike playing defensive until I really have to. After finals week, you'd better be there at Mooch's place so we can slay us some Toon Links (Lucario ditto)!

Oh, and I loved that bit at the end! LOL!

Tallen said:

*raises hand* I CALL WAVE-GUIDING HERO!!
heh I think "wave" sounds cooler than aura actually, but not many people are familiar with the term.
(PS: wave-guiding hero is Lucario's title in Japan. catchy, huh?)

Click to expand...

LOL you too I personally say Wave>Aura as well.
In fact (I think) Hadou=Wave so it fits =D GRRRR NOA ruins Everything
=P
and if we're callin titles Dibs on:

Wave Guiding Warrior of the Azure Flame

*if there was a smiley with closed eyes and a grin it would be here right now*

BTW Phi1Ny3 three sounds too.......................less perhaps there should be subcategories?

^ Did not understand. (:

Yes, this is a nice thread. Except Black on Black is hard to see. ^-^

I'd place myself as an offensive Lucario.

PSYCHE said:

^ Did not understand. (:

Yes, this is a nice thread. Except Black on Black is hard to see. ^-^

I'd place myself as an offensive Lucario.

Click to expand...

What black? I don't see any...

im between offensive and balanced

Expect an update over the weekend (and maybe even *gasp* names for playstyles/categories?)

I'm probably more balanced except I can switch to Aggressive and Campy.
This can just throw everybody off. Dang.

I attack a lot and grab a lot, but i dodge all the time. So i don't know where'd that fit in?
-t2

tedward2000 said:

I attack a lot and grab a lot, but i dodge all the time. So i don't know where'd that fit in?
-t2

Click to expand...

There is such thing as offensive dodging =P Even if it's defensive, a good offense consists of not getting hit, which is where dodging comes in. I'd say still offensive but I wouldn't know without seeing you play.

Thanks for this topic. Though I'm a Lucario secondary, it's very helpful to me since I've been debating how I currently use Lucario, and how I should use him.

Infi-tan, I'm giving u an option, would u like a typical classification, or would u like a specialized (ie, I'm giving Tallen "Wave Guiding Hero", because of his work on "Why Lucario is awesome" thread, and Jeepy if he wants one, and Nodrak for the "Inverse Matchup thread" and I'm hoping if u wanted a specific category due to the work you've posted, do u want one?)!!!!111!!!!elevenandone