How to chaingrab like a pro, the guide. (massive overhaul 12/9/08 feedback please)

The Guide to chain grabbing like a pro

Falco is one sexy bird. His chaingrab is arguably his strongest point and his most lethal technique he has in his arsenal. To be a great Falco you should know the ins and outs of his chain grab and all the options that it can lead to. The chaingrab is what gives falco and adv against so many characters some would even say meta knight, that is only if you get the chain grab off and you do the 60+% it can lead into.

So after everyone’s help from the forum I have successfully learned how to chain throw to Dair So I've decided to turn this into a guide on how to do this. I didn't invent the combo and really all of the credit for this guide needs to go to all the people who taught me how to do it. Thanks everyone for your help. If you have any comments or suggestions for improvement do leave them.

What is the chain throw or chain grab?

First off what’s the chain throw. With Falco you can repeatedly down throw your opponent over and over depending on what character they use. Once you chain throw them to the edge you can then dair spike them.

How to

It's really simple to do. Grab your opponent (0% preferably) down throw, grab them again, down throw, and repeat until you are close to the edge of the level. You have to leave yourself some room or it won't work. So as you're doing your final dthrow as the laser ends you need to buffer a dash(by buffer I mean input the dash before the dthrow has ended, usually once the lasers are gone) as soon as that happens you're going to enter the beginning dash animation now input a jump and a dair during that opening dash animation. It's important to buffer all of those commands so that Falco does them as soon as the last command ends. This will create the smallest window for your opponent to get out of this. That's all it takes, chainthorw, give your self some room, buffer a dash, and buffer a jump with a dair.

Grabs to use

As far a grabs go you can use a walking grab (the best), a shield cancel grab (I can't get this to work), or buffer a dash grab at the end of the down throw (use this when you want to get closer to the edge sooner). In all the real life situations I use the walking grab for all the throws because one you don't trip, and two it's the easiest to time. I can never seem to get a shield cancel grab to work it always takes too long so I really think you should write this one off because I know I do. You only need to use the dash grab if won't make it to the edge with a walking grab. It was once thought that snake could nade and get out of a chain grab but with using a walking grab and having good timing he will never get out of it.

Ask a pro about grabs

So I asked sethlon which grabs he use and he had this to say

Orignally posted by sethlon
Usually walking grabs are best...you can space however far/close you want, can't trip, and can be nice and leisurely about it Some characters you pretty much have to buffer a dash to get the regrab, like olimar/marth. I never shield cancel my grabs whenever I chain.

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What if I don't make it to the edge of the stage to dair them to their doom?

Well you have 3 options if they get to 40% and you can no longer walking chain grab them.

1st and the best options is to try Falco's "pillar" and attempt a regrab or a tech chase depending on there percent to really deal some major damage. Read more on the Falco's new "pillar" further down.

2nd and an decent option is to d throw and use the DLX combo, hit them with your dash attack, and go right into and up smash for some okay damage and to have the opponent in the air.

3rd is to pummel them while they are in the grab so that you get a grab release on the ground, once you do that you can go into an AAA combo if they don't perfect shield all the hits, if the regularly shield you will shield poke them and hit them anyways. This is a good option when you grab some one at at 60% and up when you can't really do anything with a grab other than throw people. It is also great to add on % when some one is close to the KO with out knocking them out of your reach. Be on the look at for perfect shielders because that will stop this option in it's track.


The Reverse Pivot Boost Grab (RPBG)

This is the flashiest looking grab Falco can do. You want to use it if you aren't facing a ledge and you want to turn the grab around or you want to look like a total badass. Watch sk92 or sethlon and you will see a sexy grab like this every now and again. However this is also the hardest grab to learn. Falco can do a boost smash, because of this he can do a reverse pivot boost grab.

How to do this sexy grab

Start a dash attack and immediately attack, move the joystick to the opposite side and then grab. When you pull this off you will see falco slide further than his normal pivot grab.

There are two widely used ways to pull this off I’m sure there are more than two but these are the two most common ones. Start the dash, hit left or right on the c-stick while changing direction on the control stick and then grab. Using this method helps you move the c stick and the joystick in the same direction so it feels more natural to do.

I on the other hand prefer to use A instead of the c-stick left/right to start the dash attack. I use A because it feels similar to doing a jump cancel grab like in melee. Use what ever technique you feel comfortable using.

Ask a pro about RPBG

When SK92 was asked about the RPBG he had this to say

Originally Posted by SK92
z with pivot grab and back on the c stick is the easiest

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The timing for this isn't easy to get down at first so don't get frustrated if this takes you days or weeks to get down perfect. Once you get it down you will be good to go, it's just like getting the timing down for the boost of smash. But before you know it you will be chain grabbing DDD 4 times in a row with the RPBG and everyone will think you are the bee's knees.

lolwut super sexy set up
Use a silent laser or a silent double laser and rbbg it's too sexy. Watch some of sk92 new stuff to see it. It's too sexy.


But what about the characters that are too floaty to chain grab? aka Falco's new "pillar"

There is answer to characters like Olimar, Kirby, ROB, and any other character that gets out of the chain grab early.

What is it?

What you can do is down throw, dair(of course you buffer dash it), fastfall, and regrab. Doesn't that sound simple? It sure does.

How to

Though it isn't that simple a few different problems can arise. At low percents you end up behind your opponent if you don't fast fall back some, but that is simple just turn around and grab them before they can react. You can always choose to go behind your opponent if you fast fall in that direction. I however feel like it takes a few frames longer to go behind them as opposed to fast falling straight down. Though when you are in front of them, they have more options than d smash, shield, roll and spot dodge, now they can jab you or grab you if your timing is off.

So to make up for bad timing you can use one of Falco's best moves and his best setup for a grab. A jab. Yes a jab is all it takes and you can grab them again. I've used this method on a number of characters in tournaments and they have almost no way of avoiding it, it's a free 50% on anyone. The only way they are getting out of this is if they are out of your grab range after your jab. The only person that this hasn't worked on for me is Lucario because he can airdogde before you can dair him, but that's when you mind game him in to air dodging and hit him with a charged f smash. You should also worry about Marth because he can still up B you.

Follow that shiz up

On top of this wonderful "combo" around 45% people smack the ground and have to tech or miss the tech and then go from there, this is were you come in and tech chase. If they roll at you fsmash, if they use get up attack shield and down smash, if they roll away chase them and grab them again or boost smash them. So this combo can turn into 80% if you read them right. You can keep on d airing heavy characters well into the 60s but light characters will avoid it around 45%.

If you want to f-smash you should take a step back that way you can fsmash them if they use get up attack or roll at you.

Be sure to keep in mind if you are FF straight down that at low 0-10ish% straight down is behind you, so you might try a regrab and not a dair because most characters can be grabbed twice from 0% then after the 2nd one you can dair, jab, and grab them. Also because the range of percents at which this works you can use this at anytime below 45% on almost all characters.

Videos

Instructional video

Here is a video explanation if you are too lazy to read or you need a visual representation of how it's done. This is a very old video don't watch it unless you have 7 mins time to kill, on top of that it doesn't cover the RPBG or falco's new "pillar" This is old as in like 6 months old http://www.youtube.com/v/f9Lk0BloWMY

In game footage

This is sethlon showing his sexy RPBG off on jungle japes on a DDD. Just watch the last stock it's too hawt. www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU

Why don't you PM sethlon to find out the technique. *enter sethlon* But i get what you mean. But i sincerely think it takes practice. I like to perfect the application by going to training mode, setting the speed to 1/4, CGing, and when they are over the ledge I dair and repeat this till i find the moment i should jump and when i should dair. Sorry if that doesn't help much. It does depend on the character being chain grabbed and i do believe the if you hit the opponent with the feet it should spike them. I meant to say that the hit box should last a while for the feet so if you initiate the attack early it will probably out prioritize the opponents chance of attacking. I'm sorry but i forget exactly where this information comes from. I recall finding a thread about the details of attacks, hit boxes, and their durations. I will try to find it.

It's just a timing you're not getting fast enough. :-/ You need to buffer the dash inside of the down throw, and jump with the down air almost at the same time. Once you get it, it's easy.

I've been practicing it for some time now and still haven't gotten the hang of it.

It's easy once you get the timing.

Just dash and spike faster is really all I can say.

with the grab you just need to dash right as the animation of the lazers ends, and grab at the end of the dash (when you are right next to them).
with the spike it's a little tricky, but it's basically a running dair.
try just running and then doing an immediate dair out of your run.
it's that at the end of your chain grab, but instead of buffering the grab with your run, you buffer the jump instant dair.
it took me a while too, but once I got it I was like, "Oh geez, that's easy."

you have to do sheild + a grab instead of z grab because it has more range. (i think)

also to practice the spike go in training mode and set the computers to jump. work out where you need to him them and then practice the chaingrab > spike.

good luck

Uh... it's not sethlon's chainthrow to spike. It's just chainthrow to spike. Sethlon happens to make good use of it.

Anyways, spike is not always possible. Snake's physics tend to work well for a chaingrab spike combo though, I'm pretty sure that snake usually can't escape out of the dair at the end. He can recover from it, though.

Anyways, in my chaingrab to spike combos, I do a run to shield grab. Shield grab stops momentum which gives you the faster grab, however I suppose you could jam z immediately after your dash as well... hmm. Either way looks fine. Anyways, the spike at the end depends on where you end your chain grab. If you end it a tiny bit from the ledge, SH dair. If you end it exactly at the ledge, drop over the ledge and second jump rising dair.

To do it, all you need is practice. Finally you will do it sub-conciously.

I always start of with a shield grab (In almost all surcumbstances the best way) then dthrow.
Next dash and almost at the exact same time press z (this is what gives you the range to grab them before they can counter, and why your way of walking doesnt work for long). Rinse and repeat.

As for the dair spike, there is always one more chain grab you can get out right on the edge of the stage, this always (well, most of the time) sets up your opponent for a dair spike. You need to instantly SH forward and dair. When you pull this off on your friends or in a tourny, it feels goood =D.

So into practice mode you go lol, hope this helps

PS: I'm in no way a pro, but im pretty sure that works.

So depending how much room I have left on the stage I need to buffer a dash and a dair, if there is room. Or if I'm on the ledge I need to buffer a SH and a dair. When ever I do a shield grab it seems like it takes to much time and I miss the grab or I get hit. I'm thinking my problem is I'm not buffer the dash and I'm trying to do it once the dthrow is done.

yeah you have to press forward to dash as the dthrow animation is ending, but before it's completely finished.

Snake can get out of it at 25% with a 'nade.
You could change up your throw if you know he's going to do it.

The trick is to leave yourself a bit of space between you and the edge. Not much, maybe a character in width. Dthrow, run, and shorthop. Immediately after shorthopping, dair (this has to be done fast), and spikes will happen.

Just going to say this. I'm sick of people saying "Sethlon's AWESOME chaingrab to spike combo!", as if he was the one who created it.

Run.

There's nothing wrong with you saying that. You are entitled to your opinion as an American after all.
What you need to worry about is the Internet Hate Machine making LULZ out of you. Fortunately, I haven't seen the machine being very active here, though it might have a few components whirring here and there...

A trick to add to this chaingrab: Sometimes when you grab them too early and they are at too low of a percent to effectively spike (10-20%) near the edge, the opponent thinks they are safe. They are dead wrong. There is a technique to cancel Falco's dash attack into a turnaround grab. I don't know the timing for it, and the few times I've tried to do it I haven't made any progress. What you do is dash attack -> backwards + grab OR back + shield + a (whichever works). This enables Falco to change directions during his chaingrab, meaning no one is safe at low percents. You can grab them at zero and they think they're safe 'cause they're right at the edge and you can't build them up to spike damage before it ends, but you can just change directions right by the edge until they are high enough to die or get hit by dash attack usmash to end the combo.

bman in 2288 said:

The trick is to leave yourself a bit of space between you and the edge. Not much, maybe a character in width. Dthrow, run, and shorthop. Immediately after shorthopping, dair (this has to be done fast), and spikes will happen.

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Yeah, if you're too close to the edge you can't get the spike off. I think it's because you can't work up enough forward momentum to get far enough to hit them with the dair if you don't have a little space to start a dash from.

There is a little bit of move buffering you have to do. Also, for the meteor at the end, do it instantly after you jump, so that it initiates as you're leaving the floor. There has to be as little a gap as possible.

It's not a true combo, it's barely escapable, but you can make the window incredibly small.

Well thanks everyone for contributing to this guide. I've gotten this down and I used it in a tournament on Saturday it was great hearing the crowds reaction as I pulled it out on a Snake, though I had to spike him 3 times before he died, but still it was great. I'm going to edit the first post on how to do it and I will make a video explanation by the end of the week.

Hooray! Improvement!

well give the video some time to get up on youtube I just uploaded it. It's my first instructional brawl video so give me feed back and suggestions for improvement.



Well i see one thing for improvement the video is way to long it's 7 minutes. I think I could makes one 3 minutes or less.

Very nice! Will someone put this in the falco guide threads?

Very nice guide, it helped me a lot, I only had to look here to learn how to do the chaingrab, so thanks for making a great guide!!

Its good to keep some space between u and the ledge , u should fair them on the second to the last grab u would be able to pull off

Yeah, I watched the video. Here's what I have to say:

Walking grab is best. You said it would only work on the lower percents, but anytime you can dash grab you can walk grab. You have to time it perfectly though. Once you get it down it isn't that hard.
Also, you mentioned a dthrow > dair combo that would work on chars you can't chainthrow, but I find dthrow > ftilt > shine builds more damage and is more reliable. This is also handy on Lucarios that like to retaliate with an aura sphere after getting grabbed.

Eventually you should make an abridged version.
Yeah, that would be sweet.

Also, something to consider is an advanced chainthrowing guide.
It would contain set-ups to grabs, switching directions during a chain throw,
and other options for building damage out of a throw. ^.^b

It's been a long time coming but I've updated this chain grabbing guide. Let me know what you guys think and if i've left anything out or there is something you want to add let me know. I hope this guide will help all falco noobs learn how to cg right.


I'm not the worlds best speller or the most grammatically correct person in the world so if there are mistakes let me know.

This guide is impressive.

Nice stuff for the new falco players. Well organized and put.

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But I must disagree with the RPBG as the most flashiest thing.
"Shine" is named accordingly for this reason.
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You know what... I find RPBG easier than boost smashing. I barely boost smash right.

Fluke said:

Nice stuff for the new falco players. Well organized and put.

[/startanalmsg]
But I must disagree with the RPBG as the most flashiest thing.
"Shine" is named accordingly for this reason.
[/endanalmsg]




You know what... I find RPBG easier than boost smashing. I barely boost smash right.

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Agreed good guide. I would like to know how effective the pillaring is against people like kirby and how escapeable it is.

Same I find the RPBG easier as well. Cannot do the boost smash at all unless I have R for my attack which I have down as grab instead.

__crystal____ said:

Agreed good guide. I would like to know how effective the pillaring is against people like kirby and how escapeable it is.

Same I find the RPBG easier as well. Cannot do the boost smash at all unless I have R for my attack which I have down as grab instead.

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On the two kirby mains I know and have played a number of matches on it's inescapable as long as you jab and they are in your grab range after the jab, it's the same way with ROB, G&W, Toon Link. Because the Falco's jab is his fastest option and jab lead into grabs this works everytime. But you still need to get the timing down to do all of it right.

for the boost smash i use L for attack and I get it down the majority of the time.

Shine is also an option after a dthrow, depending on the %. It can force a trip and you can sort of techchase from there although the only thing stopping you is the cooldown of the reflector.

I don't like to use the shine because it takes to long and it doesn't trip unless they are on the ground. Also it doesn't do much dmg. If I can connect with a dair I will always use that because it sets me up for a regrab or a tech chase. I feel like dair leads to the most dmg.

I always use running shield grab, or walking shield grab if I'm close to ledge. This way I will always be able to Dair the edge. I find it easier then dash grab. Also a good option after Dthrow (if you can't chaingrab) is gattling combo. This will work on midrange percents, up to 80% on DDD.

Great work on the guide. Thanx for the input on your style Seth. I enjoyed the match against Fogo at Japes XD

I like to do this on noobs, good guide wangstoonn.