Overswarm's get everyone better really freaking fast project

So I got into competitive Smash a while ago by accident. You can thank a combination of Halo, Major League Gaming, the city of St. Louis, and Darkrain for that (or curse them). I wasn't bad and managed to make top 32 at every tournament save for the FC tournaments, but I had trouble winning. I'd win one here or there, but only because I played really well on that one day or simply because not enough good people showed up (or a combination of the two).

Problem was, the metagame had evolved really quickly and the knowledge was trapped inside people's heads rather than written down. It was "felt" rather than known.

So, I'm going to start a project here. I'm going to pick a large topic that could be covered start to finish (meaning no change in years to come) and then I'll post it here. This will allow new players to come in and have a wealth of knowledge on certain subjects.

I want the metagame to evolve rapidly, and I want everyone to be able to catch up as fast as their dedication can take them.

That said, my first project is:

Directional influence on multi-hit moves.



If Metaknight hits you with his forward air or back air, you can smash DI out of it. Did you know this? Because of the low hitstun, you can even fair him BEFORE he finishes his move! That's amazing and makes his aerial approach crap as far as anything horizontal is concerned (assuming you mastered it).

I started doing this to my little brother's metaknight, then later realized when playing his Dedede that I could do the same thing to Dedede's down-air or u-air. Smash DI out, hit him.

So I'm going to show you how to DI out of every multi-hit move. Preferrably with video, but we'll see. This isn't another NSCS... I don't have time for that.

What I need from you is a list of multi-hit moves. To help post a character's name in bold, and list any and all attacks they have that are multiple hit. Exclude grabs.

An example is something like this:

Metaknight

Forward-air
Back-air
U-air
Neutral B (tornado)
Side B (Drill)
F-tilt
D-tilt


You'll notice that in that list I added u-air and d-tilt. Even though they aren't really multi-hit moves, they're used as such. At close range, you can d-tilt or u-air multiple times with MK to get several hits when your opponent can't do anything.

I don't play all characters, so I'm not going to sit down and try to figure out which attacks of Lucas or Luigi are multi-hit; you guys post a list, I do the list. Simple as that. Depending on the participation in people helping me (you can help by posting videos of you DIing out of multi-hit moves too, if you want), I'll be doing multiple projects like this in the future.


Watch this to get a decent handle on DI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttJLmAT5PU

----------
completed characters can be found here:
http://www.overswarm.com/

Finished so far...
Snake

Pikachu
Downsmash

Zero Suit
Upsmash

Mr Game and Watch
Rapid Jab
Utilt
Nair
Bair
Uair
Neutral B
Side B (Only the #5)

Elaborating on the Neutral B: If a fast faller falls in at such an angle that multiple hits of food land in succession then this becomes a multi hit attack. This will probably vary depending on the order of the food.

Thanks for doing this, OS!

Snake
Jab
F-tilt
D-Air
N-air

I've finished:

Mario
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Link
Samus
Yoshi
Diddy Kong
Ike
Lucas
King Dedede

I'll post them all together.

Lucario
jab A
f-tilt
u-tilt
fair
dair
fair-->nair
b-side (chain'grab')
neutral b (caught behind it)

Nice project

Didn't you forget Meta Knight's usmash and jabs? Or do those not count or something?

R.O.B.
Down Smash
Fair (used repeatedly)
Uair
Jabs
Down tilt (used repeatedly)
Forward B

Toon Link
Jabs
Bair (used repeatedly)
Nair
Forward Smash
Down Smash
Up B

Metaknight
Forward-air
Back-air
U-air
Neutral B (tornado)
Side B (Drill)
F-tilt
D-tilt
Jabs
Up Smash

maybe upsmash doesn't count because it's inexcapable

Falco
Rapid Jabs
Utilt
Nair
Fair

Omega_Star said:

Didn't you forget Meta Knight's usmash and jabs? Or do those not count or something?

R.O.B.
Down Smash
Fair (used repeatedly)
Uair
Jabs
Down tilt (used repeatedly)

Toon Link
Jabs
Bair (used repeatedly)
Nair
Forward Smash
Down Smash
Up B

Click to expand...

I did forget.

I'm not making any lists... so someone else can make Metaknight. The idea behind YOU guys making the list is that it saves me time. Not only do I have to no longer choose which character to do, but I no longer have to worry about missing something! There wlil be a zillion lists for each character more than likely, or at least someone correcting someone else.

Mario
Jab
D-air
Up-B

Bowser
Jab
D-air
D-smash
F-smash
Neutral-B
Up-B

Donkey Kong
Jab
N-air
Up-B

Diddy Kong
Jab
U-smash
F-smash
D-tilt
Dash Attack

Kirby
Jab
D-air
F-air
U-tilt
Dash Attack

King Dedede
Jab
D-air
B-air
U-air

Lucas
Jab
D-air
N-air
D-tilt
Up-B

Ness
Jab
F-air
D-tilt
Dash Attack

Ike
Jab
Up-B

Yoshi
Jab
D-air
B-air
D-smash

Samus
Jab
F-air
U-air
U-smash
Up-B

Link
Jab
B-air
F-smash
U-smash
U-tilt

EDIT:

Squirtle
Jab
D-air
D-tilt
F-tilt
Up-B

Ivysaur
Jab
B-air
N-air
F-tilt
D-tilt

Charizard
Jab
U-smash
U-tilt
Neutral-B
Over-B
Up-B

Sonic
Jab
F-air
B-air
U-air
U-smash
F-tilt

There are a few attacks that are technically 'multi-hit' like Ike's and Lucas's up-B that can't be DIed out of.

FEJunkie said:

Falco
Rapid Jabs
Utilt
Nair
Fair

Click to expand...

for Falco you could consider the dash attack to up smash glitch a multi hitting attack

Hype said:

for Falco you could consider the dash attack to up smash glitch a multi hitting attack

Click to expand...

Technically its 2 moves and it only works at low percents(otherwise they get knocked too far away). Still it could be considered as a multi-hit move.

Bowser's Fsmash has two hits

Marth's Don attack on the final part of his dancing blade

Hey guys? I don't think you've all got what Overswarm meant by "multihit moves." A multihit move really is just a move that hits the foe one blow at a time, smacking a person once then smacking them again while they're in hitstun, IE Fox's Fair and Dair. However, there are moves that hit multiple times but can't truly be Smash DI'd that give off multiple hitboxes one after another without a pause for them to enter hitstun, rather than just putting them in hitstun for an instant and then hitting them again. A good way to tell whether an attack is a true "multi-hit attack" and can be DI'd is whether an attack lasts longer when it hits than when it doesn't. Pika's Dsmash and Fox's Dair last for well over a second if they hit, but will last a considerably shorter time if they don't. Meanwhile, Lucario's ftilt will last just as long with or without hitting someone.

In short, some attacks don't have hitstun between hits, and are thus un-SmashDIable like Lucario's ftilt, and can usually be pointed out by the fact that they last just as long as when they hit as when they don't.

Kitamerby said:

Hey guys? I don't think you've all got the correct definition of a "multi-hit move." A multihit move really is just a move that hits the foe one blow at a time, smacking a person once then smacking them again while they're in hitstun, IE Fox's Fair and Dair. However, there are moves that hit multiple times but can't truly be Smash DI'd that give off multiple hitboxes one after another without a pause for them to enter hitstun, rather than just putting them in hitstun for an instant and then hitting them again. A good way to tell is whether an attack lasts longer when it hits than when it doesn't. Pika's Dsmash and Fox's Dair last for well over a second if they hit, but will last a considerably shorter time if they don't.

In short, some attacks don't have hitstun between hits, and are thus un-SmashDIable like Lucario's ftilt, and can usually be pointed out by the fact that they last just as long as when they hit as when they don't.

Click to expand...

I'll run the thread, thanks.

Put all moves that are multi-hit, as in multiple hits, including single hit moves that can be used back to back repeatedly.

Kitamerby said:

Hey guys? I don't think you've all got the correct definition of a "multi-hit move." A multihit move really is just a move that hits the foe one blow at a time, smacking a person once then smacking them again while they're in hitstun, IE Fox's Fair and Dair. However, there are moves that hit multiple times but can't truly be Smash DI'd that give off multiple hitboxes one after another without a pause for them to enter hitstun, rather than just putting them in hitstun for an instant and then hitting them again. A good way to tell is whether an attack lasts longer when it hits than when it doesn't. Pika's Dsmash and Fox's Dair last for well over a second if they hit, but will last a considerably shorter time if they don't.

In short, some attacks don't have hitstun between hits, and are thus un-SmashDIable like Lucario's ftilt, and can usually be pointed out by the fact that they last just as long as when they hit as when they don't.

Click to expand...

I understand what a multi-hit move is, I was just listing all moves that are registered as consecutive hits on the in-game combo meter and single hit moves that can be used back to back repeatedly, i.e. Metaknight's U-air.

Pit
Angel ring
Up-air
AAA-tapping not hold!
F-smash
Up-smash

am i missing anything?

Do Jabs count?

Luigi

Neutral A
DTilt*
UTilt*
Down B
FAir*
Dash A

* = Low percentages ONLY is it "Multihit." It's actually unclear because many of these moves have damage as a relying factor to be "Multihit" :|

Ness

Jabs
Fair
PK Fire
PK Thunder tail
Usmash
Dash attack
Dtilts

I think that's all of them.

Ike

Jabs
Aether

That's it. To whoever posted Dsmash, I've NEVER seen that hit twice.

ZSS:
Up-smash
Up-B
Fair
F-B (multi-hit at close range)
Utilt

Both Up attacks can be DI-ed to a certain extent so I would guess they count. I don't think the AAA jab counts because they are slow enough that they can be shielded anyway.

Uair may also count, it can be doubled at low percentages

cj.Shark said:

Pit
Angel ring
Up-air
AAA-tapping not hold!
F-smash
Up-smash

am i missing anything?

Click to expand...

There's also...
Up-tilt
N-air

Lucas:
Jab
Utilt (at point-blank range)
Dtilt
Nair
Dair
Dsmash
PK Thunder
PK Thunder 2

Adapt said:

ZSS:
Up-smash
Up-B
Fair
F-B (multi-hit at close range)

Both Up attacks can be DI-ed to a certain extent so I would guess they count. I don't think the AAA jab counts because they are slow enough that they can be shielded anyway.

Uair may also count, it can be doubled at low percentages

Click to expand...

Add utilt, and you've got all of them.

Although I don't know how easy utilt is to DI. With SDI, I guess you could. I know I've seen the second hit miss if the first hit lands on an airborne foe.

FEJunkie said:

Falco
Rapid Jabs
Utilt
Nair
Fair

Click to expand...

You forgot Uair

metaknight.
all the ones named
and i dont know if this counts but if you use dsmash at point blank range it will hit twice really fast and has more knockback horizontally. metaknight must be facing the opponent. this has happened to me at least 5 times. im not sure if theres an exact position the other person must be in but i do know you must be really close.

FEJunkie said:

Falco
Rapid Jabs
Utilt
Nair
Fair

Click to expand...

bowz said:

You forgot Uair

Click to expand...

and fire bird (up b)

kamekasu said:

I understand what a multi-hit move is, I was just listing all moves that are registered as consecutive hits on the in-game combo meter and single hit moves that can be used back to back repeatedly, i.e. Metaknight's U-air.

Click to expand...

I wasn't really aiming it at any specific person, just meant to clarify it for some people, as some people didn't know. I guess it was somewhat unneeded, though.

Olimar
U-Air
N-Air
U-tilt
And I'm not sure if these count:
D-Tilt (Scores two hits, can be used repeatedly)
A combo (Can be used back to back.)

JIGGLYPUFF:
-down air
-1,2 hit jab "combo"

cj.Shark said:

Pit
Angel ring
Up-air
AAA-tapping not hold!
F-smash
Up-smash

am i missing anything?

Click to expand...

I think U-tilt should be in their.

Am i right?

screw you overswarm

now I wont be able to abuse multi hit moves anymore

This is gooooooood stuff. I wouldn't have remembered firebird either XD

I'm going to try to convince my little bro to help me record a character or two tonight... but chances are I won't be able to do anything until Thursday.

I'm putting most of my attention to posts that have multiple characters in a row (like kamekasu) and full move lists, and am doing them in order of the characters listed.

@ xiivi

Falcon's Dsmash is not a multi-hit move in the context of what this thread is addressing. Yes, it can hit twice, but the chance of that occurring is almost 0%. Seriously, you hit them once with it 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time.

And if you were simply referencing the double direction behavior of it when you listed it and NOT the double hit impossibility (almost), then that's just stupid.

P.S. You're right to have listed Ganondorf's Dsmash, because it actually does hit both times with good consistency. Falcon's is a totally different matter though.

@ OP:

Good idea with this thread.

GANONDORF
Down Smash
Neutral Air

Click to expand...

Would Ganondorf's D-air also count as a multi-hit move thanks to it's laglessness if preformed correctly?

SMASHtyke's right, a Thunder Storm'd Dair is technically a multi-hit as it can consistently be done back to back. It does floorbounce though, that might change things.

At lower percentages Captain Falcon's Dair spike on the ground works similarly I believe.

It's not DI, but you can perfect shield the last hit of Luigi's dash a if you mash the shield button.