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Meta Knight Q&A Thread

Exdeath

Smash Master
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Anyone have any tips against pit? I actually have never played the matchup before, and I have no idea what to watch for or how to play it, and I'm going to be facing a very, very good Pit in pools at the smashfest this weekend.
Aerial Neutral B beats his entire move set except for hit boxes through the top and Fsmash (it doesn't cover his head, so high Neutral B will still beat everything). He can't directly kill you if you hit confirm>retreat to a platform if he shielded it.

My personal approach to the MU is dash in and stay out of his dash attack range and then poke at him until he tries to arrow and then Neutral B OoS after he arrows my shield because he can't set himself into a winning position from an arrow. He'll either shield/run away or he'll doing something else. The former will put you away from him and allow him to shoot arrows at you/force you to come back in and the latter puts him in juggle position. Poke safely once you're at kill percents and shield a lot because his throws are poor at killing/setting up for kills and his attacks either poke well and don't kill hardly at all or poke and are extremely obvious (he'll have to jump above you in order to Fair/Bair if you're at neutral).

Don't spot dodge if Pit is in the air (I don't really understand why people do this). If your shield is low and you're afraid to get Faired at high %, you're better off immediately reacting to his jump by rolling away (not into him). Dtilt/Ftilt/Shield mix-ups outside of his attack range pretty much shuts him down well. Pits jab frame traps on hit and can pseudo anti-air (I've seen Japanese Pits use it to beat low Dairs that would be other wise safe), but its hits box hits about as high as it does horizontally, and if you have a decent reaction time then you can stand outside of Pit's attack range and react to him dropping his shield with Ftilt (Dtilt hits low enough that you can whiff a Dtilt if you react to him jumping OoS, which will then allow him to punish). His fast options OoS are Usmash (frame 6) and shield drop>Utilt (frame 9), but these only really matter if you're Frolling into him/going for a cross-up/trying to be inside of him for any reason. His threating OoS options are jump/Up-B>Dair (5+10 frames=15 [if Ftilt/Dtilt isn't well-spaced on Pit's shield, this will hit MK's hand]) and jump/Up-B>Fair (5+12=17) if you're camping high in the air (generally not a good idea bceause it gives Pit a lot more flexibility in his keep away game).

He also has drop shield>Jab (7+5=12), which is respectable considering the frame trap that I mentioned earlier. Basically, it gives Pit enough of an advantage that he jab and then grab if you shield (or if you attempt ti Ftilt/Dtilt, depending on the %), and Dsmash/Stutter-step Fsmash option-select your spot dodge/Froll and dash attack either roll away. Furthermore, his Fsmash is only a frame slower and covers a little more horizontal distance. It also happens to be slightly weaker than MK's Dsmash. If you're buffering your frame traps or your opponent is reacting to anything other than Ftilt 3 then Fsmash isn't an issue.

The reason that spacing is important is that buffered MK's Dtilt>anything but shield/spot dodge or MK's Ftilt>anything but Ftilt 2 will be interrupted by Pit's Fsmash OoS and Pit's jab OoS is guaranteed on anything other than frame perfect Dtilt>Shield. Fortunately however, these all require reads and jab's kill follow ups require a second read.

If Pit is gliding back to the stage then you should either Up-B with a read, bait the glide attack so that the momentum carries him into you (e.g. putting yourself an Up-B position and Uair/Nairing instead). Pretty much only Neutral B will consistently beat it (unless Pit will be hitting cleanly through the top). Glide attack easily out-ranges pretty much every attack that MK has, including MK's glide attack (outside of a few uncommon spacings where MK's glide attack is above Pit's, similar to how MK's glide attack can beat itself).

If MK is standing/able to act at neutral and the opponent tries to jump above the stage while recovering (a.k.a. doesn't know the MU), feel free to Up-B him for free kills if Pit has used up his glide. Otori Up-Bs are great if the opponent doesn't know how to deal with it (very few people seem to know how). Reacting to Pit's jumps when MK is at low % is good (you're better off playing safely after ~90%, because Pit can bait the Up-B and trade with Bair, which is very strong). Try not to be greedy if Pit is being greedy with Bair fishing and just run away/take safe pokes at him when he is. Retreating Fair is good (loses to well- timed/spaced dash attack) and the classic retreating FFFair>Dtilt is good in general.

You can't grab his Ftilt/Dtilt if they have any decent spacing, but Up-B OoS/Ftilt OoS are easy fix-alls for punishing him touching your shield. Pit's arrow can be safe on block unless MK is close and a lot of Pits get their damage/kills from spot dodging what looked to be an unsafe arrow and then punishing a whiff with Fsmash.

Another mid-screen approach is to read arrow>arrow (it can be pretty easy to read when you aren't close to Pit) and power shield the first arrow>dash attack to clash with the second arrow. This will generally result in MK being in one of three situations: Covering ground without taking damage (Pit will have a significant frame advantage but won't be close enough to do anything about it); MK will be close enough that Pit can punish and will have clashed late enough that Pit still has a frame advantage; MK will clash with the arrow shortly after Pit fired it and will put MK near Pit allowing for significant punish (Up-B/Dsmash/dash grab/Ftilt/etc.). The second possibility is the least likely to occur, fortunately for MK. Ftilt is a given, however this can occasionally lead to free second hit Dsmashes for relatively early kills.

Whoever gets the first kill will have a significant advantage in the MU, as both characters can run away from each other and tack on a lot of free damage (MK more so than Pit, however a frustrated MK player will often lose most -- if not the remainder -- of his next stock).

I'm sure that I'm forgetting a lot since this is all off of the top of my head, but basic MK should remember the following:

- Neutral B totally beats Pit in the air.

- Spaced Ftilt/Dtilt/Shield mix-ups dominates Pit on the ground and Neutral B is good here as well.

- As per usual, approaching with Neutral B is not a good idea; Pit can throw you right back out with arrow follow-ups to rack up damage very quickly, and without adding in shield damage that allows it to eventually poke.

- Pay attention to how you recover because he can randomly Down-B your Side-B/Up-B/Neutral B. Down-B recoveries are pretty good.
 

Supreme Dirt

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Pit has exactly 4 options against Nado.

1) loop an arrow to hit the top
2) do that janky powershield grab
3) jump over it and perfectly space a DAir
4) Mirror Shield it to reflect you away and then punish.

It's one of those MUs.

Just remember he can actually edgeguard you.
 

Exdeath

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Pit has exactly 4 options against Nado.

1) loop an arrow to hit the top
2) do that janky powershield grab
3) jump over it and perfectly space a DAir
4) Mirror Shield it to reflect you away and then punish.

It's one of those MUs.

Just remember he can actually edgeguard you.
All of Pit's aerials can hit through Neutral B if spaced correctly. Fsmash/Dsmash should out-prioritize it and pretty much all of Pit's hit boxes in general can go through the top.
 

janne_837

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Can you post some setups to get the opponent ready for MetaKnights Down-Tilt-Lock?
Want to try some. Thanks!
 
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Thanks a bunch ExDeath, that really helped me in doubles (1st place **** YEAH!). Singles is gonna start in 10 minutes, so we'll see how this turns out...

Can you post some setups to get the opponent ready for MetaKnights Down-Tilt-Lock?
Want to try some. Thanks!
First hit fair->land->footstool->fastfall nair->lock
Nair last hit to push them off a battlefield platform from below->lock
Hit their shield off the platform on battlefield->lock
SHUair->jump->footstool->fastfall nair->lock.

Stuff like that.
 

theunabletable

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find a spot that's at the neutral position where you're comfortable, where if you read him, he takes damage. Like a position where you turn the game into RPS, where you have a few options to pick from, and he has a few to pick from, and whoever picks right gets damage.

Then just deal a ****load more damage when you get in on him than he deals to you.

Then apply that concept everywhere you can in the matchup. This matchup is really tough at first, because there aren't a whole lot of situations where you can bait Olimar, and against a good one, you almost certainly can't bait him JUST to win. His moves on the ground are non-committal enough that he's not in much danger for using them, unless you guess which one he does, and counter that specific one.

Y'know? Like it's certainly possible to bait Olimar, and you should be ready to do so, but, atleast in my opinion, and this is what's worked best for me against Rich, Logic, Anuar, etc that you really need to read him to win. You deal more damage at the advantaged position than he does, but you don't have any really easy ways to get in that don't involve guessing which option he picks, or making yourself seem unpredictable and picking an option that can beat one of his, but he's not expecting.

For instance, there's a position that's in the air, above Olimar, sort of diagonally away. At this position in the air, you can move to the ground, and do a tilt/dash attack/dash grab faster than his reaction time will allow him to bait and beat consistently, but also from this position, you can tornado into him quicker than he can react to, or you can move in and dair or something.

If he throws out an Fsmash, or a pivot grab, and you choose nado, you'll beat his option (I'm pretty sure you can beat pivot grab if you space the nado high enough, but it's also largely a timing issue. Timing is the main thing that's hard to quantify online, but is also one of the major defining factors in whether you beat his option or not) assuming it's all timed and spaced right.

If he throws out an up B, and you decide to air dodge in and grab, you'll beat his option.

I mean there are a ton more options you can think of to use, more visual mixups, more spacings like this, but in my opinion, making this matchup come down to rock paper scissors is the best way I can find to win, since our followups are so much better than his, and that's just one example of a position that you can use that makes it come down to RPS haha

All imo, though :p
 

Orion*

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Pit has exactly 4 options against Nado.

1) loop an arrow to hit the top
2) do that janky powershield grab
3) jump over it and perfectly space a DAir
4) Mirror Shield it to reflect you away and then punish.

It's one of those MUs.

Just remember he can actually edgeguard you.
Wtf.
I just fsmash that **** LMAO

find a spot that's at the neutral position where you're comfortable, where if you read him, he takes damage. Like a position where you turn the game into RPS, where you have a few options to pick from, and he has a few to pick from, and whoever picks right gets damage.

Then just deal a ****load more damage when you get in on him than he deals to you.

Then apply that concept everywhere you can in the matchup. This matchup is really tough at first, because there aren't a whole lot of situations where you can bait Olimar, and against a good one, you almost certainly can't bait him JUST to win. His moves on the ground are non-committal enough that he's not in much danger for using them, unless you guess which one he does, and counter that specific one.

Y'know? Like it's certainly possible to bait Olimar, and you should be ready to do so, but, atleast in my opinion, and this is what's worked best for me against Rich, Logic, Anuar, etc that you really need to read him to win. You deal more damage at the advantaged position than he does, but you don't have any really easy ways to get in that don't involve guessing which option he picks, or making yourself seem unpredictable and picking an option that can beat one of his, but he's not expecting.

For instance, there's a position that's in the air, above Olimar, sort of diagonally away. At this position in the air, you can move to the ground, and do a tilt/dash attack/dash grab faster than his reaction time will allow him to bait and beat consistently, but also from this position, you can tornado into him quicker than he can react to, or you can move in and dair or something.

If he throws out an Fsmash, or a pivot grab, and you choose nado, you'll beat his option (I'm pretty sure you can beat pivot grab if you space the nado high enough, but it's also largely a timing issue. Timing is the main thing that's hard to quantify online, but is also one of the major defining factors in whether you beat his option or not) assuming it's all timed and spaced right.

If he throws out an up B, and you decide to air dodge in and grab, you'll beat his option.

I mean there are a ton more options you can think of to use, more visual mixups, more spacings like this, but in my opinion, making this matchup come down to rock paper scissors is the best way I can find to win, since our followups are so much better than his, and that's just one example of a position that you can use that makes it come down to RPS haha

All imo, though :p
Like. I agree but... Olimars still gay. I'm more of a reaction type player than a read type player.
 

SSGuy

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When using Meta Knight to counter Marth, I have recently began to notice that I am having a rather hard time getting back onto the stage safely and as unpredictable as possible. The last thing I want to do is get predictable. (Especially with all the unique tools he has)

I'm starting to figure out that SV is a decent stage to play Marth at because of the platform that comes out past the ledge. It helps with both baiting fairing as well as helping me stay safe.

Is this correct and are there any other stages (both neutral and cp's) that stand out as decent stages to go to when you play the Marth match up? (Brinstar/RC don't count. I'm aware how awesome they both are and I end up getting one of them banned.)
 

ぱみゅ

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The first stage that popped my mind is Delfino.
Half the time you won't bother about recovery; shark him whenever you need to, but remember that if the Marth is smart enough, he can spike you through the floor. Be careful.

If that does not work, just practice recovery on Training Mode if possible, and mix up glides, Drill Rushes and Shuttle Loops.




I just realized a bad habit I have: I ALWAYS walk a little prior to a Ftilt....
Amy tip for help eliminate that?
 

Ghostbone

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Delfino is a really good stage against Marth in my experience.

Smashville is good as well because of how the platform can help your recovery, while it doesn't really help Marth as much. (if he tries to up-b onto it, he'll get hit off easily, if he tries to jump on it after grabbing the ledge, he'll probably have his RCO lag from up-b)
 

pwiito

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Pit has exactly 4 options against Nado.

1) loop an arrow to hit the top
2) do that janky powershield grab
3) jump over it and perfectly space a DAir
4) Mirror Shield it to reflect you away and then punish.

It's one of those MUs.

Just remember he can actually edgeguard you.
lol at these options lol, ur better off just shielding nado --->punish lol
 

Exdeath

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When using Meta Knight to counter Marth, I have recently began to notice that I am having a rather hard time getting back onto the stage safely and as unpredictable as possible. The last thing I want to do is get predictable. (Especially with all the unique tools he has)

I'm starting to figure out that SV is a decent stage to play Marth at because of the platform that comes out past the ledge. It helps with both baiting fairing as well as helping me stay safe.

Is this correct and are there any other stages (both neutral and cp's) that stand out as decent stages to go to when you play the Marth match up? (Brinstar/RC don't count. I'm aware how awesome they both are and I end up getting one of them banned.)
The more I play the Marth MU the more I think it's based around timing. Basically, Marth has an answer to virtually everything that MK has, but what makes it difficult for Marth is that his timing is far more sensitive than MK's timings. For example, if I Neutral B from the ledge and Marth Up-Bs me for it, I can just do it again and stop moving forward just before I reach him. Holding his shield will beat it, but it's more likely that he'll Up-B again.
 

ぱみゅ

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We all have a persoal bad MU no matter how many times we play it.
Yours is THAT Snake, mine is a local Pikachu, others have problems with the Ditto, Olimar, Diddy, or whoever.

Just remember the basics of the Matchup, stay focused and mix it up as much as you can.
 

Ghostbone

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Snake is just terrible to play against >.>

I feel I always do really badly at the beginning of games but tend to bring it back towards the end, but it's never enough to win :/
 

-LzR-

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I also can't beat Snake no matter what I do. I just get ftilted and nade camped and surprisekilled by C4 and mines. I am totally free and it's very annoying when it happens. They can Ftilt my shield all day and I just cannot punish.
Also that applies to all characters, not just MK. >_>
**** Snake.
 

Player-4

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Snake Tips:

Alright,

Snake, you gotta know when to go in, you can't really rush him or you can really get *****. Wait for that moment when you can get in, take it and drop your percent on him.

Nado is really good when for catching him in the air when he's landing, work on Nado control against him, it's really good for when you jump around Nades or his hot box range, just again wait for an opening and take it, but watch for Nades and his Utilt which are his best tools for beating Nado. You really wanna aim for his head so you can poke his shield, if you go for his head with the tip of the bottom of your Nado it will perfect cancel your Nado and you can act accordingly from there weather it be Up-B, F/D-tilt, Roll, Spot-dodge, Shield, or possibly even Grab.

Your main focus is getting him of stage, your Dthrow is great for that, just watch for Snake because he can perfect DI it to an Utilt before you can hit him, the only way to beat this is a running Perfect Shield to whatever, but if you read he won't do that then go for a Nair, from this if he DI's down you can land and poke him with Dtilts trying to catch his jump and then follow with another Nair offstage or Reverse Loop, or even a Uair or Dair could work if done right.
But if he DI's up (from the Nair) then just follow him and try to read his next move, whether it be an aerial like Nair (which you can Uair or Shuttle if your spacing is good), a Nade, Air-dodge or Cypher, just act accordingly. N/D/F-air are the best way to handle Nades when he pulls them trying to get back on stage. Nado is best for catching Air-dodge, and Shuttle, Nair, or Dair (only when fresh) him when he's on his Cypher.

If he tries to recover of of C4 by teching the stage or just by DIing back to the stage, you can either Foot-stool him if you can get it down, or if you're like me who can't really do it, just Dair him when you know is the right time (it'll take a little to get a feel for when he blows himself up but if you get it down you'll be golden)

As far as his F-tilt on our shield, just Up-B OoS, grab if he doesn't space it right, or you can try rolling behind him reaction to the first hit on your shield, then just go from there with pretty much whatever you want. Getting behind Snake is a big key, if you can do it without getting caught then use it, otherwise don't abuse it if you get punished for it a decent amount.

Uhhh I'm trying to think of more...

Work on juggling him with Uair to Dair traps, Uair strings or just harassing him with Uair to bait something and punish that accordingly. Again, Nado is pretty good for keeping things going after you close to no more jumps or if he's about to land.

About getting around Nades, use your goddamn jumps you have 6 of them, an Up-B, Down-B, amazing Air-dodge, and other tools to get down if your getting peppered with Nades then get hit with a Dash Attack or some sort of move to get in. Now if he's camping you with Nades and then waits for your Air-dodge in and hits your with an Utilt or Ftilt, just again jump around them and come in with a Nado when the time is appropriate.
There's other approches as well like SL, Fair, Dair and even Uair.

Don't get caught up on the ground, you want to buzz around his head, and find your way in. He wins on the ground (from my exp).

Just work on your style and experiment with what works for you and what doesn't, try to play friendlies or MMs.

Anyways these are just my strats, I play with Gnes' Snake a good amount and have played plenty of tourny sets against local and OoC/OoS Snakes and have a positive record in tourney (my credentials, I guess lol idk)

End
 

pwiito

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im scared of grenades
When he throws them? I just dodge them, i dont know how some people get hit my random grenade explosions lol u see that coming like 10 miles away XD, dont airdodge like a *****h and accidentally catch them lol.

When snakes pull them out? Just keep proper spacing and don't hit them, imagining ur fighting itachi, u can't look at him in the eyes or ull explode, so fight his feet lmao
 

TSM ZeRo

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so fight his feet lmao
This is actually a very good tip!

In My Opinion: D-Tilt works very well against Snakes who like to keep grenades in their hands. You can also D-Air their head with the tip of Meta Knight's sword, but they can just throw the grenade upwards and evade that. D-Tilt is safer in this situation. F-Tilt can work very well as well, but do not poke his shield with it very often. Otherwise, it's a free F-Tilt/Dash attack/Grab punish (depending of the distance). You can D-Tilt as many times as you want, and stop whenever you want (and all of this in a "quick sequence" unlike F-Tilt, which can be punished accordingly more easily than D-Tilt), so, D-Tilt it's a better and safer option.
 

KassandraNova

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I NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER F-tilt snake. It's not worth the risk at all. He'll just f-tilt you and you'll take damage. It may pop him in the air which is useful, but ugh, it's not worth it to risk getting f-tilted by him.

you should just never f-tilt against snake, imo
 

Haze~

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I can't get in on him at all. I'm still waiting for vids to be uploaded.
Camp/bait him hard when hes on the middle of the stage, when near the ledge you can easily catch him offguard with nado and what not,hes also alot more predictable here with his approaches, and his camping has to be near perfect to keep up with you so don't screw up. When on the ground its all about grabgame and some "safe" pokes(for you), If hes got a bad nadepulling timing try going for more grabs. Hi
 
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