The Art of Techchasing: Murder Choke is Top Tier.

Note: This is all incomplete. Now that I have the European version, testing will re-commence.


Murder Choke is Ganondorf's penultimate move. Jekyll already informed you all about the follow-ups after a Murder Choke, when your opponents are still on the ground. However, a better use for this is techchasing and finishing off with a destructive final attack. Sure, dtilt combo's are awesome, and near the ledge you could better go for a jab or ftilt, but free fsmash is awesome. Or DA. Or Dait after a roll. Or-- You get the idea.

Anyway, after a Murder Choke, your opponent has 5 options:

1. Stand up.
2. Roll away from you.
3. Roll behind you.
4. Do a get-up attack.
5. Wait and do something later.

A plethora of options, all predictable and punishable.

Standing up is something that will rarely happen: it gives invincibility frames to your opponent but not enough, you can basically hit your opponent with any attack.

A get-up attack can be beaten with a Thunderstorm or FJ dair. It's as easy as it sounds, it just takes some timing, but you can probably get it down on most characters fairly easily. Since dair kills easily, this is a favorable option.

Rolling is the most used options: your opponents will usually roll away to give themselves some space and not get hit. What you can do after it is character dependent, and a handy list is compiled for you. Of course, somebody rolling behind you is the most favorable option: it puts them close to you and you can easily regrab and techchase. Rolling away is not cool and very character dependent, some characters roll away very far, too far for another Murder Choke. It is possible to chase and do a DA, Murder Kick or anything else, though. These test results only handle things from a standing position.

I don't think I have to go into the fifth option...

Reading what your opponent does right before they do it and effectively following up has been dubbed Murder Chasing by me, thanks to Sliq's renaming of... well, everything.

The only thing that bugs me about this is that you mentioned Jekyll's thread without giving a link to it. Remember, while you, Jekyll, and Sliq test things, the rest of us are lazy!

Very nice guide. I look forward to future updates.

wow you whine too much

very nice list and of course bowser is a plaything ganon is far eviler then that fat tub of lard

Thanks for this thread ! ^^

Too bad that it's not complete ^^ I feel that at the end, all the threads on the Flame CHoke will create a great guide for it

Also, it should be noted that it is so god ****ed easy to see where bowser is rolling, thanks to his windup on his rolls. Plus I'm pretty sure if you thunderstorm slightly backwards you might be able to hit get up attack or roll.

iDA is guaranteed on 20 of the cast, barely DI-able by another 9, and the other 9 are only hit on getup attack. Geeez Jekyll, how long does it take to make do a huge update on a thread ? Magus, not too hard to test things out...just sit with controller in hand and think "hm what can I do?". Think of applications of certain moves, blah blah. Right now I'm working on full hop nair as a bait into djumped aerials or it goes right into aerial gerudo at a low level. Use that creative mind!

Anyways, nice stuff dutchman. Although, I would never underestimate waiting on the ground or getting straight up. They can both get people out of tight spots with GDorf sometimes...at least when the person really knows how to play against the 'Dorf. Also, I'm not trying to take over this, but I've been thinking a lot more about certain positioning for Ganon after choke and how it might help a lot. For instance, foxtrot forward can cover a lot of things after Gerudo. It can usually cover roll forward, roll back, and can sometimes bait the get up attack so you can stomp. Just a thought.

EDIT: By the way...Choke Trapping>Murder Chasing >_> (Every Ganon main is going to get pissed at me for not using the word murder lol)

Nice stuff, Flying Dutchman.

Swoops said:

Geeez Jekyll, how long does it take to make do a huge update on a thread ?

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It's become a problem of how to organize the data best. It's coming together, though .


...more thoughts later.

nice thread thx for this

Jekyll said:

Nice stuff, Flying Dutchman.



It's become a problem of how to organize the data best. It's coming together, though .


...more thoughts later.

Click to expand...

With this intense research, Ganondorf will be unbeatable (unless he's fighting Ganondorf)!

This deserves a round of applause.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone!

Swoops said:

Also, it should be noted that it is so god ****ed easy to see where bowser is rolling, thanks to his windup on his rolls. Plus I'm pretty sure if you thunderstorm slightly backwards you might be able to hit get up attack or roll.

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Haha, yeah, he's so easy to read. I think the match-up against Bowser is easier simply because of this.

Swoops said:

EDIT: By the way...Choke Trapping>Murder Chasing >_> (Every Ganon main is going to get pissed at me for not using the word murder lol)

Click to expand...

We might as well make it Choke chasing.. For another awesome alliteration.

Only saw this thread now. Too good. Looking forward to the rest of the character's analysis :D

Dammit, there was already some old topic that covered who exactly could get hit by what from a Flame Choke. Where was that? =(

Otherwise, hurry up and get this one done please. And someone keep this alive so it gets stickied.

So when will you continue the guide ? ^^

Good **** mang Gannon is a great character in my opinion, forward-b opens up a plethora of options with the right string you can 0 to death someone or get them **** near close.... rock on