How to get the two hits from Peach's Nair and Bair...

Excel_Zero · Jun 25, 2008

I'm not sure if this has been brought up for discussion, but I figured out long ago how to do this, yet I never posted anything.

To do this, you need to be floating, then you throw the nair/bair, and then drop from your float. When you drop from the float, the move will act as if it didn't hit your opponent, which makes the attack hit again with the unsweetspotted part (it won't hit twice with the sweetspot though). If the attack isn't spammed, then this will give like 20%, and since it's easy to combo it's something that should be used over and over again. Btw, if the opponent has higher damage, then it becomes harder to hit twice with the aerial.

So basically: float>aerial>drop float.

I am going to add this to the guide soon, but maybe some people may miss it so I will just make sure by making this thread. Hope this helps.

Praxis · Jun 25, 2008

That's interesting! So it works like Peach's umbrella then (it can only deliver one hit, but if you fast fall to close and reopen it it can deliver another). I'll definitely try this!

Sanzi · Jun 25, 2008

thts awsome! i wish i knew tht when i used to main peach!

.... u couldn't have found it sooner Excel!!

PRINCESS PEACH777 · Jun 25, 2008

Isn't the same with her Dair/Nair trick?

EdreesesPieces · Jun 25, 2008

Yeah this is definitely awesome. You don't need to neccessary float to do it though, if you know the timing it's possible without that!

Peach_rules · Jun 25, 2008

cool. That's good. I've done it before but not really noticed it. I'll do it more often! Thanks

tonyrulz92 · Jun 25, 2008

Sweet. Another combo to add to my arsenal...

Airgemini · Jun 25, 2008

Awesome!
I love landing both of the hits on her F and Bair.

DeadlyTurnip · Jun 26, 2008

I've done it before, I've never know how though until now. o.o

Danke

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

EdreesesPieces said:
Yeah this is definitely awesome. You don't need to neccessary float to do it though, if you know the timing it's possible without that!

I think it likely that you pulled this trick off on accident, actually. Bair while floating right as you drop the float.

I guess this is Peach's Float-cancel. It doesn't cancel lag though, instead it causes the game to repeat attack damage

Excel_Zero · Jun 26, 2008

Praxis said:
That's interesting! So it works like Peach's umbrella then (it can only deliver one hit, but if you fast fall to close and reopen it it can deliver another). I'll definitely try this!

Exactly. Basically when Peach drops from the float equals to closing and re-opening the umbrella.

EdreesesPieces said:
Yeah this is definitely awesome. You don't need to neccessary float to do it though, if you know the timing it's possible without that!

I don't think it's possible this way. I was messing with this up in training mode the other day, and I couldn't even get one double hit without using the float. If you somehow can do it, then send a video of yourself doing it since I would really want to see that.

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

Edrees and I were discussing this last night and I think I've figured out how it works.

Remember float cancelling in Melee? Attacks done while floating are somehow viewed slightly differently by the game.

The game probably checks on a per frame basis to see if your character is within the hitbox of any attack. If your character IS within a hitbox, it checks if that attack has already hit, so that attacks don't double up. However, if the status of an attack changes at all, it is viewed as a new attack when the check is done.

Since the game engine from Melee remains intact, it views a floated bair and aerial bair as slightly different, so you float bair, drop the float, and the game reads it as a separate aerial bair and reapplies the damage on the next frame.

Does this sound like a reasonable explanation?

If it's true...that means it can be used to double up the damage of any of Peaches aerials with a hitbox lasting for more than one frame. Bair and Nair are easy because the frames last so long. Uair *might* be possible with precision timing. I'd be curious if it's possible to double up Fair if you timed it to the frame- I wonder how many frames the hitbox is on that, one? Or two or three?

EdreesesPieces · Jun 26, 2008

Excel_Zero said:
I don't think it's possible this way. I was messing with this up in training mode the other day, and I couldn't even get one double hit without using the float. If you somehow can do it, then send a video of yourself doing it since I would really want to see that.

Hey you are right. I was trying it and the only way to do it is as you described in the original post. I must have gotten lucky and done it on accident before. Wow. You do need to use the float. Thanks so much for pointing this out!!

Praxis - I like your explanation. This tactic really IS eerily similar to how a float cancel is performed. This is quite a BIG deal for Peach, I like this a lot. In Melee a float cancel would occur if you did an aerial while floating, dropped the float and landed at anytime during your aerials animation

So I think you are right – when you cancel your floating, in Melee, the game basically treated it like you were done using your move so it would replace the landing lag of your aerial as the landing lag of a regular jump in the air to land. It’s crazy how this has manifested itself through to Brawl. They must have tried to remove that aspect of the engine, and found it pretty difficult, so they basically made the move re-start itself (hence why you can hit with it again ) rather than having it dissapear altogether (hence why the landing lag would be cancelled out before) The explanation makes perfect sense. In that case this WILL work for f-air and up air as long as they do last more than one frame, you just have to be in position and know the timing. This could be huge for Peach’s metagame.

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

In that case, I'm proud to have had a role in figuring it out. We may have found that exploit we were looking for

Now we need to see if there are any other uses for it.

Props to Excel Zero!

PRINCESS PEACH777 · Jun 26, 2008

So is that a new combo?

Excel_Zero · Jun 26, 2008

The thing is that it works for Nair and Bair since the moves actually has two different hitboxes (the sweetspot and the non-sweetspot). It doesn't work for the fair since it has only one hitbox. I haven't really tried much with the dair, but maybe it could bring more hits instead of the usual four hits. The uair has different hitboxes... so some testing with it could bring a new discovery. I doubt it though...

I'll try to explain my conclusion here. When Peach uses her nair/bair, she starts with the strong hitbox (sweetspot), then that hitbox fades away and the weak hitbox (unsweetspot) appears. It seems that the hitbox thrown when Peach is floating won't be able to hit twice, but since the attack has two different hitboxes, then the attack hits twice. It's a really weird mechanic, but it seems this is all there is to it.

I don't know if you guys understand, since this is kinda complex to explain... :dizzy:

but anyway don't give up people. If you have some good ideas of how this could work in Peach's benefit, then don't be afraid to try it or post it here.

Edit: I'm sure lots of people did this trick without knowing because of the old Melee habits of using float before an aerial.

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

I get it. Because you throw the attack while floating, it throws out the first hitbox as a floating attack. Since the game differentiates floating and aerial attacks, when you drop the float, and the second hitbox (aka the unsweetspotted hitbox) comes out, it's the second hitbox that is viewed by the game as a new attack (since the first hitbox was floating and the second was aerial).

So this means Fair's probably out. That also means that we're not going to get kills using this, since the second hit will be unsweetspotted and thus minimal knockback. Regardless, a two-hit bair combo in under a second is an excellent new tech to add to Peach's arsenal, especially if it's done over the ground (the unsweetspotted attack has very little knockback, so it can probably combo).

There might be other things we can come up with for this though. Maybe some kind of awesome combo.

EDIT: Reposted on AiB:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=131678#p131678

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

We need to name this. Shall we call it Float Cancelling again? Or Aerial Cancelling?

EdreesesPieces · Jun 26, 2008

Excel_Zero said:
Edit: I'm sure lots of people did this trick without knowing because of the old Melee habits of using float before an aerial.

So true! I realize now that I haven't seen this much lately, but when I first started playing Brawl peach I saw it alot. It's because I was more in the habit of trying to do that type of movement carried over from Melee! Hah!

CedricIzDead · Jun 26, 2008

tonyrulz92 said:
Sweet. Another combo to add to my arsenal...

Is this a joke aimed at Bair's use of Peach's derriere?

Oh, and this is so awsome!

Excel_Zero · Jun 26, 2008

Praxis said:
We need to name this. Shall we call it Float Cancelling again? Or Aerial Cancelling?

I don't know... for me Double Nair/Double Bair sounds nice enough. : D

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

Excel_Zero said:
I don't know... for me Double Nair/Double Bair sounds nice enough. : D

Double Air or Double Aerial perhaps?
I dunno, I kind of like Aerial Cancelling.

Especially if it works for Uair.
Pick one!

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

Dair > Dair > Cancelled Nair would be a thing of beauty wouldn't it? 0_o

Praxis · Jun 26, 2008

Hey guys, check this out! I found it on accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9S7ARxPCT4

At 0:07. Niko accidentally does this. A Bair right over the ground, released a second later. It does 23%!

Excel_Zero · Jun 26, 2008

lol @ triple post

I don't think Aerial Cancelling suits this technique well since it sounds like you are actually cancelling the lag of the aerial, and that is not what this is about. In the other hand, double aerial kinda fits since you are hitting twice in the air.

Has anyone been trying to mess with the uair? I've been unusually lazy lately this days to check by myself...

Praxis · Jun 27, 2008

Well, I say you get the final say on naming it since you discovered it first

However, I'm just thinking for tournament usage.

"How'd you hit me twice like that??"
"I aerial cancelled my attack!"

vs
"I double aerial'd it!"

deepseadiva · Jul 1, 2008

Excel_Zero said:
I don't think Aerial Cancelling suits this technique well since it sounds like you are actually cancelling the lag of the aerial, and that is not what this is about.

Praxis said:
However, I'm just thinking for tournament usage.

"How'd you hit me twice like that??"
"I aerial cancelled my attack!"

vs
"I double aerial'd it!"

I'll have to agree with Excel, a naming fails if people misinterpret it as something else - as nice as saying "I aerial cancelled my attack!" would sound. Double Aerial is good.

Arle Nadja · Jun 6, 2011

Someone needs to get a video of this. =o

Airgemini · Jun 6, 2011

There are these things called dates.

The last response in this thread has a date that was nearly 3 years ago.

You're new, but please don't bump things unless you have something good and important to add. I encourage you (if you're looking for a video of this) to post it in the stickied video thread.

Thank you.

How to get the two hits from Peach's Nair and Bair...

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