Weegee Moveset Discussion (Today:Toss)

SparkEd · Jun 26, 2008

Every now and then we discuss a specific move from Luigi's moveset. Post some Data on it, talk about its usefulness, how well it does in battle, and anything else pertaining to that certain move. I'll randomize which move we'll talk about everyday, and when the cycle ends we'll go into a few more specific things about certain moves. I hope people will be able to share what they know about this move and help other people to they can apply it too =)

When info accumulates I'll be sure to put it in here.

Move Being Discussed: Toss (Forward Throw)
Damage (Nondecayed) - 8%
Hitboxes - N/A
General Use - SemiCG, Offedge Setup
IMO - I've seen this Semi-Changrab a few characters. How much Luigi can S-CG with this seems dependent of their falling speed, I'll look into it more.
ALSO: Basically 1/3rd of BThrow.

Previous Moves Discussed
BAir - General Consensus says easily the most useful aerial. 5/5
USmash - General Consensus says very good killer, fast startup, USE MORE. 4/5
FAir - General Consensus says Not as bad as they think, combos well, etc. 3/5
DThrow - General Consensus says Best throw to combo from. With improper/possibly proper DI Luigi can actually combo two FAirs => Green Missile at Low percents. Misfire = KO! Combos into virtually anything save a few moves. 5/5
Side B - General Consensus says Good Move for recovery, may hold a "Zap Jump" ability and chancing a misfire is a fair idea too. Bit hard to punish even at weakest power if it connects. 4/5
FTilt - General Consensus says not a useful move. Use occasionally for spacing maybe but it's jsut not worth it. 1/5
UTilt - General Consensus says very good combing move with the weak hit and juggles pretty well. 3/5
DTilt- General Consensus says good for Up+B Comboing and potentially spikes if you can hit it in the air. A bit situational, maybe. 2/5

ShadowJokerX · Jun 26, 2008

it also spikes

Razz113 · Jun 26, 2008

the Dtilt spikes? thats news to me, i must b doing it wrong kuz ive tried to spike with it lol. newho ive found if u can get in close and do 2 Dtilts u make the enemy jumpp which u cna then step foward and UpSmash.

brentlouis · Jun 27, 2008

very useful you can combo it into almost anything, i have trouble setting it up and when i do get close i forget to use it

could u put up a video of it spiking, thanks

LuigiKing · Jun 27, 2008

Dtilt to up angled Fsmash works pretty well for me.

Jeb · Jun 27, 2008

I think I've only used this move maybe 3 times in my life...once by accident.

chic · Jun 28, 2008

trip+up b=amazing

AlAxe · Jun 29, 2008

I don't really use dtilt too often. It's not particulartly quick or damaging and it's hitbox is pretty small too. If you don't connect with it you'll get punished easily.

SparkEd · Jun 29, 2008

Flip Kick!

Go!

brentlouis · Jun 29, 2008

well lets see, the flip kick is very useful for juggling, but it has no purpose in an air to ground fight it can also be used as an unsuspected move during an off stage chase,

Matador · Jun 29, 2008

Time for some mathematics!

If Flipkick = Uair then..

Uair + Nair = 2 good! Beautiful followup from nair > utilts > Uair > Nair.

CookieCrisp · Jun 29, 2008

Its really usefull in battlefield where the opponent is on the platform above you, short hop --> Uair is a great combo starter for aerials. It has great priority as well.

hippiedude92 · Jun 30, 2008

Flip Kick is juggling move I love so much. Perfect after a Nair, Utilt and Dthrows. It doesn't have greatest knockback but can still be used at great juggles. I find it most useful in places for such as Lyat Cruise and Battlefield. You can land 2-4 quickly if your oppenent doesn't DI or shield.

cheifrocka · Jun 30, 2008

i'm trying to work in some more u-air, it really does wonders for comboing. like hippie said, if you catch your opponent off guard or trying to do something else, you can string 2 or 3. you could uair into bair, uair into nair, or utilt into nair, uair, uair, bair (which is gorgeous i might add :D)

Eten · Jul 1, 2008

An oldy but a goody shows some good uair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RASQ16mdVZQ
I like to say this as "weak-hit uair(as his feet pass the peak and are on the downwards arc) combo into more uair" at even high% on different weight targets. It does less than normal damage though, so weak-hit uair is sometimes much better done into a nair(then it's like ~14% or whatever for the nair+ ~6% from the uair). At lower % even strong hit uair can go into another uair and that's like 24%. Move also autocancels at a very early time and already has little landing lag and is luigi's second fastest aerial behind his fair too.

In the vid he probably could have landed that uair into an up-angled fsmash KO at 0:21 too, which justifies a double weak uair use. You also see it used on somebody up on a platform and after an uptilt all effectively too.

SparkEd · Jul 3, 2008

The "Blind" Roundhouse Kick.

I say that because he doesn't look in front of him unlike Mario.

cmpr94x · Jul 3, 2008

It is not a good combo move, but it has good range and can be angled up or down. It doesn't really k.o. and if you want a jab lock, the d-tilt is better. I suppose if you did an aerial combo you
could finish it with the side tilt but why not just grab them and down throw into another "combo."

Banditsofthesea · Jul 3, 2008

Can you post the other Moves of the Days from previous days and write people's opinion and stuff about it??? Sorry if i'm asking for too much..

Anyways, the "Blind" Roundhouse Kick, Probably the move i use 2nd to least. (Least being the running attack, i just use Luigi Tornado XD) It's still alright in my opinion.... Maybe i should start using it more... XD

Eten · Jul 3, 2008

It's not useful. I mean, honestly in the full scheme of all the characters in the game it's not bad. But for weegee it's just not as fast as his other moves and you have no reason to use it over a jab or a downsmash.

As a tilt, the tilt comes out in 5 frames which is pretty fasy and does 10% damage
Dsmash however also comes out in 5 frames with almost the same range as the tilt and does 16% damage and hits them in a trajectory that has the potential for follow up
Jab comes out in 3 frames with almost the same range as the ftilt and does 10% damage

In comparison the ftilt is also just slow on the ending lag. You're much more vulnerable than if you jab and the jab does nearly the same thing while even a bit faster. The dsmash is a functional alternative while it's just as fast, does much better damage and hits the opponent in a much better trajectory

So lets say sometimes I accidentally use it and it hits- that's good, I didn't lose much. But I don't try to use really at all because in comparison to most of the rest of Luigi's moves it has punishable ending lag on it that's just annoying.

hippiedude92 · Jul 3, 2008

I don't find F-tilt too useful. I pretty much use it to scare my oppenent off. Sometimes it's somewhat a life savior or just ruin's my A-game. The only use I can find for it use chaining Fair's with this since it come's out pretty long. Also using this a ground-game is one way. It has way too much ending lag IMO. I think the low f-tilt has the most lag but barely does any knockback. I prefer to use a Upangled F-smash or a Dsmash it come's out quick and just about the same range.

Locuan · Jul 3, 2008

I usually use the ftilt to space at times and nothing more. It's pretty situational though so I usually just avoid this move.

T-REX! · Jul 3, 2008

I use it sometimes. If you SH>double fair just to scare them off, sometimes you can lead into an ftilt. Jab's more useful, though.

SparkEd · Jul 5, 2008

Headbutting the air.

Green Missile's up for dissection.

cmpr94x · Jul 5, 2008

Good move for recovery when combined with tornado. Sometimes I just randomly whip out an uncharged green missile to keep the opponent back, if it hi(for like 5 damage) it is kinda hard to punish. Misfiring is too good.

hippiedude92 · Jul 5, 2008

Ahh the Green Missle. It brings back the old melee days. I used to get lucky all the time with it's misfire. But now in Brawl, I get it extremely rare. Best used as a recovery, but surprisely and humilating if you use it as a offense espically if you get the misfire. I give it 2/5.

Eten · Jul 5, 2008

I don't think the chance for misfire has changed. You just have to use it less when you recovery I think.

Green missile is very important to luigi's recovery. I'm not sure how many are actually doing this but aiming to sweetspot the ledge right from a green missile is amazing. It's dangerously powerful when charged and people who get in the way can get stagespiked, I've never had it punished, and it is not easily edgeguarded and if it is edgeguarded luigi can still use his other recovery options to clear the ledge, get onto the stage, get the ledge, or what have you.. You actually hit below the ledge to sweetspot it. Charged green missile gives luigi some vertical height during it's trajectory which means you actually release the green missile even a bit lower than that. And sometimes when it misfires the misfire gives you even more vertical height with it's greater power and you'll clear the ledge and go sailling right into any opponent waiting on stage to edgeguard you. It's great.

Also, a while ago somebody said something about some sort of "zap jump" behavrior in the green missile. So I've been playing around with it since and I can confirm that you can get more height if you use the green missile on the way up while jumping(full or shorthop or second jump, although a full jump is more noticable than the other two). It's also dependent on how soon you start an over-B after you jump- doing a green missile immediately after you leave the ground from a full jump will have Luigi sailing straight up into the air(I have to move my index finger to the jump button and my thumb on the b button to do it usually) and then rocket away at the top. It looks curiously something just like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLpwUhAvFzg&NR=1

SparkEd · Jul 8, 2008

GO, Down Throw.

...There needs to be official names for these moves :/

hippiedude92 · Jul 9, 2008

Downthrow... I've used so many time's to rack up damage i can't remember the last time i used any other throw other then this. Well D-throw i preferably think it's 4/5 because it's a combo starter not a kill throw.
D-throw work's very well for fast-fallers, heavyweights. It sets up for u-tilt,up-air can get around a quick 35%+. You can use different combinations of aerials once you get this throw landed which I think makes Luigi sucha aerial demon. I prefer to use d-throw in places with platforms such as Lylat cruise and Battlefield.

Inuashakent · Jul 9, 2008

This and up tilt are probably the most reliable combo starters. Juggle some u tilts, nair, uair, and bairs.

Conclusively · Jul 9, 2008

Down throw's properties are pretty much like up-tilt, except more useful because you can get people in shields. 4/5 IMO, good for racking up damage as well.

Banditsofthesea · Jul 15, 2008

2nd favorite throw (favorite is the back throw), good combo starter. 4/5

Master Raven · Jul 16, 2008

I love. I generally use it to setup some Utilt combos and when my opponent starts air dodging after getting thrown, I usually just wait for the dodge to end and sort of do a pseudo-chaingrab if they keep air dodging it.

skuzzel · Jul 17, 2008

Meh, It's combotastic if the person doesn't DI/tech/air dodge perfectly. I spammed it and the people I played with caught on fast, now it's only good against the fast fallers and at low percents. It still the throw I use, but it's not a "true" combo starter in my opinion. Of course, mind games unlock it's true potential.

SparkEd · Jul 20, 2008

Since I'm back, Let's move onto the Handchop.

cmpr94x · Jul 20, 2008

Yay! Your back! I was wondering why this wasn't changing ok. I think the handchop is a good move. It can be strong together several times to push your opponent of the edge, but... make sure you dont try to finish off with a side b and kill your self. I prefer his other aerial moves but this is good for preventing decay of the back air.

hippiedude92 · Jul 20, 2008

Handchop.. i give it 2/5 because of it's changes from melee to brawl. It's knockback has been highly reduced therefore it isn't much of a ko move until like 130%s+? It's pretty decent for followups such as Utilt utilt to Fair. It's mainly a edgeguard, sometimes a followup move now. It's pretty easy to land 2-3 F-airs on low %s and poor DIs. It can be used as a WoP but not a great a approach.

Here's a good funny example of what a Fair can do at 2:06. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEZPTOgsc-o

3 Fairs and almost into a Misfire. Epic.

Faithkeeper · Jul 20, 2008

hippiedude92 said:
Handchop..
Here's a good funny example of what a Fair can do at 2:06. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEZPTOgsc-o

3 Fairs and almost into a Misfire. Epic.

That's the first thing i thought of when i saw the move changed to fair,

nice thinking.

Anyway, Fair can chain into itself for some quick damage at low percents.

Overall, i think it's main setback is that bair is better for gimping and edgeguarding, so fair isn't needed as much. But it is good for psuedo combos and very fast, so i'll give it a 3/5.

cmpr94x · Jul 20, 2008

The vid is what I was thinking of also lolz. Great minds think alike? Coincidence, I think not!

hippiedude92 · Jul 20, 2008

cmpr94x said:
The vid is what I was thinking of also lolz. Great minds think alike? Coincidence, I think not!

Haha, of course! Luigis is teh pwnagezzzzz. Boss's luigi comes to my mind is that video, 3 fairs into a epic misfire. Offtopic: What does psuedo mean? o.o

Eten · Jul 21, 2008

fair is amazing. Characters with good spammable fairs always get played better than characters who don't have them. It has much more range than you might think on first glance- reason being is because luigi's hand/arm extends so quickly while also getting so large that it's hard to notice the full area the move covers
The fair has the longest horizontal distance a in front and about at the middle-lower section of luigi(out from his thighs I suppose)

It's also his fastest aerial, which mean a lot of different ways to combine it with other aerials for shorthop autocancelled double aerials. It also can be used in short hop triple aerials with fair fair nair and fair fair uair. It also can hit a target as low as a standing kirby while rising.

It used to be super powerful, but it's now in a happy combo range for knockback. It's only downside? It's double the landing lag than all other of luigi's aerials, so you can't be sloppy with it. The autocancel timing comes quickly however so it isn't much of a problem.

Weegee Moveset Discussion (Today:Toss)

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