Trip Data + Questions

I noticed while playing Zelda as a supplement to Sheik (<3 Sheik), I realized Zelda's D-Tilt was an amazing setup for a lot of moves due to its tripping properties. Causing the opponent to trip (and knowing when its going to happen) gives you an immense frame advantage since they're helpless while in the "tripped" state. I was hoping this can translate into Sheik's "tripping" game so she can capitalize on the moment with her difficult to land KO moves (U-Smash, F-Smash) or Combo Setups (F-Tilt Lock, Chain Lock).

I scoured around the Tactical forum to look for some useful tripping percentages for both Zelda and Sheik. I listed them below in a more readable fashion. However, I don't know how accurate or complete they are as the topic started didn't make much sense with his HUARAGH and WHEAWRAL descriptions of tripping; it was partially frustrating having to read through it.

SHEIK
N-Air (Strong Hit): 25-30%
N-Air (Soft): 70-80%
B-Air (Sweetspot): 31-39%
B-Air (Soft): 70-80%
Needles: 291-999%
Chain (Tipper): 45-62%

ZELDA (VERY useful for those who love to transform into Zelda for the quick finish)
Neutral A: 34-46%
D-Tilt: 0-92%
Fair+Bair (Sourspot): 113-128%
D-Air (Sourspot): 80-141%

DISCUSSION
I was wondering if there are any other Sheik moves can trip the opponent and the percentages that it occurs? Also, I'm wondering how accurate are these numbers since I don't see them happening too often when I play Sheik. Do sourspotted version of F-Air, B-Air, and N-Air have chances to trip? There could be hidden potential to her aerials.

Also, are there certain factors that I have to consider like having my attack connect while they're grounded, the effect of DI on the chances of tripping, or if they're just slightly above the ground? Furthermore, does the move guarantee a trip at the right percentage?

Knowing the percentages at which Sheik can trip the opponent can immensely improve her KO, combo potential, and ability to follow up. Wouldn't it be great to trip the opponent and then immediately proceed to F-Tilt lock them, perform a quick sliding two-hit U-Smash, or (gasp) use the notorious chain lock? Easy damage and set-up imo


Updates:
July 3 2008: Added trip % for soft N-Air and B-Air.


Go Sheik!!

ah needles, now i can set up by up smash at 985% when i can't get the kill, good stuff.

I'm 95% sure that its not a guaranteed trip at the right % but its good to know anyways I guess.

When I'm using Sheik and one of my moves cause a trip it usually mess me up as I fail to do the tech chase since it's so rare.

Also in the low percents my game is focus more on ground attacks then air so I rarely see this happen in the first place.

Yeah, I have to say it is pretty rare given the current trip percentages. But I thought that sourspotted aerials had a chance to trip, but its difficult to see if its possible or not; I don't really know how people test this. Maybe some developments will come up :]

...doesn't sheiks dtilt trip too? lol

If it does Demo then it's like uber rare as I use the dtilt all the time and I've never seen it trip someone before.

The dtilt definitely does not trip. It sends the opponent nearly straight up. Moves that trip are those with horizontal knockbacks.

Yeah, I don't think D-Tilt trips either given its upward knockback. Typically moves that trip have relatively little knockback and tend towards a horizontal trajectory. I guess we can exclude U-Air and D-Air as candidates for tripping. I am, however, curious to see if sourspotted F-Airs, B-Airs, and N-Airs can trip given that they fit this vague criteria.

Ah, yes you guys are right, I haven't done dtilt enough to notice it. Most characters' "tripping" moves are their dtilt, and I just remembered the animation and imagined it in my head

I got a chance to get a hold of a Wii and Brawl, so I did some quick testing to see if the soft N-Airs and B-Airs had the potential to trip and I found a rough range where it occurs.

N-Air (Soft): 70-80%
B-Air (Soft): 56-68%

The percentages could be wider (hopefully), but given that Sheik uses aerials more heavily as the damage begins to rack up; this knowledge could be useful so you know that there is a chance to trip the opponent so you can act accordingly so you don't whiff your next attack and capitalize on the situation.

How often does this tripping occurs?

Because 56 to 68% is grade A for setting people up for a tilt set up. This might be useful after all if like 1 out of 10 tries usually trip.

I noticed this tripping occurs roughly 1 out of 15 times. I'm not sure if soft hit tripping is more likely if it hits certain parts of Sheik's B-Air. It works for both soft-foot tip and Sheik's crotch area. The tripping percentage allows for about 3 soft B-Airs, so the chances aren't too bad. Its a useful little thing to know in-case the trip does happen so Sheik can pounce on the enemy :]

Wildfire393 said:

The dtilt definitely does not trip. It sends the opponent nearly straight up. Moves that trip are those with horizontal knockbacks.

Click to expand...

stealthsushi said:

Yeah, I don't think D-Tilt trips either given its upward knockback..

Click to expand...

... doesn't Zelda's D-Tilt have vertical knockback?

Zelda's dtilt causes trips. Sheik's does not. This is because Zelda's dtilt actually has a send which forces targets into the ground and eventually popping them up (ceasing tripping possibility at this point). Sheik's dtilt always sends upwards, the exact opposite direction.

Sheiks Dtilt stage spikes if they DI towards the stage right after being hit while hanging on the ledge O_O

Yeah thats not useful =(

NJzFinest said:

... doesn't Zelda's D-Tilt have vertical knockback?

Click to expand...

It only sends vertically when the opponent has damage at least 100% and/or over. Otherwise, tripping happens quite a bit.


Tripping info is so awesome to know, because it helps to know that you can force a trip with Sheik. Great thread!

This may of been a quincidence)

So any of you remember the jigglypuff trick where you threw your needles at the ground and she got stopped or ramped off them. Well i threw needles at the ground twice while fighting wolf and he tripped both times. I didnt really have to to experiment so maybe one of you can or i can in a week or two when i come back from florida.

Interesting, the needles stuck in the ground force enemies to trip? Now THATS definitely worth looking into Sadly, I'm not by a brawl to check this out. Considering that the needles don't linger long on the floor means that this is rarely observed, but we could find out uses for it if its true.

Hmm, I doubt this is going to be useful even if it's a guaranteed trip.

Since aerials needles have so much lag upon landing I doubt if you cause someone to trip you wouldn’t be able to tech chase them if the roll away from you.

Isn't it possible to reduce the landing lag if you initiate your needle throw very close to the ground? I know it pretty much stops you from throwing needles once you touch the floor, and you can move with minimal landing lag. But since you're so close to the ground when you do it, the needles are essentially useless as an attack, but I could be used to trip. But this would be very situational.

stealthsushi said:

I was wondering if there are any other Sheik moves can trip the opponent and the percentages that it occurs?

Click to expand...

Don't think so

Also, I'm wondering how accurate are these numbers since I don't see them happening too often when I play Sheik.

Click to expand...

These percentages are all against bowser, you need to adjust them for the character's weight. Lighter characters will have lower numbers.

Also, are there certain factors that I have to consider like having my attack connect while they're grounded,

Click to expand...

They have to be on the ground yeah

the effect of DI on the chances of tripping,

Click to expand...

No effect

or if they're just slightly above the ground?

Click to expand...

Can't trip if they're not on the ground

Furthermore, does the move guarantee a trip at the right percentage?

Click to expand...

No, all of sheik's trip move's have about a 10% chance to trip

I scoured around the Tactical forum to look for some useful tripping percentages for both Zelda and Sheik. I listed them below in a more readable fashion. However, I don't know how accurate or complete they are as the topic started didn't make much sense with his HUARAGH and WHEAWRAL descriptions of tripping; it was partially frustrating having to read through it.

Click to expand...

WHARRGARBL

Squidster said:

ah needles, now i can set up by up smash at 985% when i can't get the kill, good stuff.

I'm 95% sure that its not a guaranteed trip at the right % but its good to know anyways I guess.

Click to expand...

Hahahaha! 4real man, killing with Sheik is an art not for the faint of heart.