Zelda matchups discussion - Wisdom mainers discuss the SWF matchup chart

***Please Read the Rules and Intro to this topic before Posting***​

***CURRENT DISCUSSION***

We are currently discussing

1.) Samus
2.) Sonic

Please mention something about those matchups and their placement if you can.

If you don't know much about the matchup, please say so. That way players who really know what they're talking about from experience can chime in, plus we get a better idea of which matchups we aren't seeing very often.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't play against a lot of insert character players. Even for regular tournament goers there are plenty of characters that aren't seen often.


Feel free to mention other matchups as well. But don't forget to throw in your 2 cents on these guys if you can. If we have way too many IDKs, I'll list it as such and discuss other characters before coming back to them.

***

Welcome everyone to the discussion on the current Zelda matchup chart found in the tactical section of SWF.

The point of this is to look at the current matchup chart, which has been shaped by players of various characters, and see where Zelda mains disagree with it.

This topic is not to hurt that matchup chart, but has the same goal as it, which is finding the most accurate matchup chart possible. What I'm hoping for is to simply see where there are matchup disagreements with us and the rest of the community and hopefully work them out.

Info from this topic will make it into the "Keeping it Classy" sticky, where I hope to keep 2 matchup charts. One shaped by all players and the other only by Zelda mainers. It's the goal to make/keep them the same chart.

Please me courteous of the topic. I'm not a mod so I can't erase trolling or flaming messages. So I'm asking nicely, please either give your input as the rules say or simply refrain from posting. There are plenty of places on the Internet to hijack topics/ideas, don't do it here. I'm understanding if people make mistakes, just don't purposely try to derail discussion.

**************RULES***********​

PLEASE READ AND OBEY THESE, AS THE TOPIC AS A SPECIFIC FORMAT. THIS IS TO KEEP IT FROM GETTING SIDETRACKED OR OFFTOPIC.

RULE 1 - Post your main at the top of your message.

-I know we have little character icons, but this is simply to make sure. If you play both Zelda and Sheik equally (as some do), I will consider you a Zelda main. Simply put Zelda/Sheik or Zelda. If you only play Sheik, leave it as just Sheik. Keep in mind though, Sheik only players won't influence the matchup chart, it doesn't help us if you aren't familiar with tournament Zelda.

-NOTE: Anyone can post here, regardless of main. But I'm only taking Zelda mainer's opinion into consideration for the actual chart. I still want to hear the opinion of non-Zelda players. So post it.

RULE 2 - Don't re-post the matchup chart in your posts.

-This is because it makes posts long, clunky, and hard to read. If someone needs a refresher on matchups they can look at the first post.

RULE 3 - Posts should only be about a character placement disagreemnt or addressing another player's opinion.

-Remember this topic is about finding what WE (Zelda mainers) think her matchups are.


POST LIKE THIS

Make sure all character opinions include

1.)Character
2.) current placement
3.) where you think they should be
4.) why

Make sure you have all those things. Especially the "Why" part. As opinions don't matter much without the explanation.


An example (don't read to far into this one):


MAIN: Zelda

Snake
-Currently neutral
-I think he's a bad matchup
-His range/priority hurts Zelda a lot at high level. His roll (running-a) can bypass the f-smash from a surprising long distance. His heavyness allows him to KO her at lower percents. Other arguments, etc.

OR

@ Player - I disagree DDD being neutral. Zelda hurts DDD's recovery a lot. She can simply up-smash him out of it as he comes down. Insert more argument for my opinion.


USE the Quote Feature or @

If you're disagreeing with someone make sure to either quote a small part of their opinion (if it's long, don't quote the whole thing, just what your disagreeing or agreeing with)... OR use "@ and then the players name". This is a discussion.


One last thing.

Be kind. Even if you disagree. Players are at different skill levels and fighting various skill level opponents. Yes, this project is about the highest level of metagame. So Noobies, don't post low level stuff that doesn't really work and pros... be nice to the noobs.

As a refresher, here is the matchup chart​

Big Advantage Against:

None

Slight Advantage Against:

Bowser
Falcon
Charizard
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Jiggypuff
DDD
Kirby
Link
Luigi
Mario
Peach
Pikachu
ROB
Samus
Sheik
Sonic
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi


Neutral Matchups:

Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Ike
Ivysaur
Lucario
Metaknight
Pit
Snake
Squirtle
Zero Suit Samus

Bad Matchups:

G&W
Lucas
Marth
Ness
Olimar




So post, have fun. Keep it intelligent.

Main: Zelda

Bowser
-Currently slight advantage
-I think Zelda's got a big advantage
-Lightning kicks is so easy to hit - need I say more? Yep. Bowsers fairly slow as well, and those types fit Zelda perfectly. Bowser lives a lot on his power and range, but Zelda outranges him and can easily counter his laggy moves with a lightning kick.

Main: Zelda

Sonic
-Currently slight advantage
-I think big advantage.
-Sonic is said to rely on his opponent's mistakes and misses. Fsmash and Dsmash have less after-lag than most smashes, making them hard to punish. Sonic is quite an aerialist, and needs aerials to kill sometimes, but Zelda can punish those aerials tough with Upsmash.
-Din's Fire isn't great in the matchup, but she doesn't need it, she does really well here without it, racking and killing.
-I have vids against the Sonic i drew conclusions off of in my thread, so you can decide if it just sucked.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174949

@popsofctown - I disagree at Sonic being big advantage. He's so fast and hard to catch for Zelda, and you can't really Din him all the time to make him approach because there's a big chance that he breaks through the defense and attacks before the ending lag is gone. I think slight advantage will do, because the fight won't be easy, but a good Zelda should win in the long run if it keeps its head cool.

Main: Olimar

Pops, my sonic is pretty bad. I wouldn't make a conclusion based on my sonic. :/

OP-Olimar isn't listed.(of course, just like every other matchup thread)

Edit: Nor is Mario

Main- Sheik/Zelda

Samus
-Currently Slight advantage against
- I think Samus is a bad matchup
- The reason why I think this is because Samus is capable more so then any character to keep pressure on Zelda at all times from a far without the need of projectiles. Instead of using the traditional super missiles and guided they will attack with the Z air. This insanely quick long reaching none projectile attack cannot be reflected. Although Link has a similar Z air it doesn’t go nearly as far and doesn‘t allow such good aerial movement. Samus Z air can be used to stop ground to aerial approaches with very minimal effort while at time same allowing the Samus player to choice to either approach or retreat. If Zelda tries to use Din fire she will be interrupted before being able to guide the attack close enough to it’s target. Because of the distance Samus hovers Zelda range attack becomes unusable and the distance Zelda needs to cover to close in for a dash attack, usmash or even grab is too great and is usually interrupted as well. This match up isn’t hopeless like all of Zelda match up’s but it is differently not in Zelda favor.

For those who don’t know what Samus is capable of or haven’t fought a good Samus please use the following link and watch the video before responding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbgxF7EvwlM

main-zelda

ganondorf
currently slight advantage
i think maybe this should be a large advantage

the reason is that when zelda is playing defence he has no easy way to touch her. he has nothing at a distance while zelda has din's and when he comes close zeld's range and priority beat him pretty badly. also he is a pretty big target and easy to lightning kick plus he is to slow to approach well or to punish zelda in anyway. this is why i feel it should be a large advantage for zelda

@Everyone -

Periodically I'll be posting updates in the thread, so that if someone else comes in they can quickly catch up on what's being debated/said. Plus I'll update the original post with what's currently being talked about.

I'm glad this thread is taking off. Since it makes the most sense to compile our matchup list I'm going to ask we narrow the focus a little. The way to accomplish this is that we'll have a couple characters I want everyone to comment on, and while your at it throw in your 2-cents about any other characters you want.

Since you guys already brought them up, try to comment on either

1.) Samus
2.) Sonic

So mention those two if you can (please). And if you don't know, simply put you don't have enough experience against either to comment. Due to people living in different places, many players end up playing against certain characters a lot more than others, nothing to be ashamed of.


@DANGR - my mistake. I'll fix that right away. Olimar is a bad matchup and Zelda has an advantage against Mario.

i don't feel that samus has a advantage on zelda. first off let me say that just b/c that guy in the video has a good or maybe great samus does not make him a good character i could show you a video of a very good cf but that does not make him a good character. also since zelda can refelct most of samus's attacks and all but the target missle would go back to her a feel zelda has the advantage there. and once you get zelda out of mid range you will be able to hit samus with better distance and priority. so really the only place were samus has the advantage is mid range were she can use her zair so i don't see why samus would have the advantage or even really be neutral with zelda

Sonic normally has to rely on opponets making mistakes to get instide of them and then rely on an edgeguard to KO... I know... He was my main before Zelda and is currently my #1 secondary (unless you count shiek... but that's really part of Zelda to me.)
Regardless, Zelda is SOO hard for him to punish because she' so hard to get inside... and she's too floaty for him to combo and too hard for him to gimp.

Also, his utter lack of priority and range means She'll be smashing him all about and he's even open to lightning kicks due to poor aerial range/priority.

It's not that sonic can't win, it's just hard for him to do so.

ADVANTAGE ZELDA

Samus
I've only played one good samus... and it was a pro... therefore, better than me.. but he was pickin' me up and shutin' me down... that Zair is so irritating.

Samus is just too hard to kill.. otherwise this matchup would be zeldas as of now:

Even... MAYBE a very slight edge to Zelda (5.5:4.5)

the overestimation of squirtle on practically every character board never ceases to amaze me. id like to know, what do yous think squirtle does more effectively than sonic such that he warrants a neutral advantage while sonic is percieved easy to beat.

as i see it, squirtle does less damage, slower, useless specials, abysmal recovery and no range when compared to sonic.

I have things to say about other characters, but I'll wait I guess...

So, Samus and Sonic you say? Hmm...

Alright,

Samus

I can't say that either greatly outpwns the other, but I do know (I second Samus/ZSS... not well, but hey) that one of Samus' greatest set ups is the missile-cancels. Whether it's two or three missles, they move so slow that Zelda can easily deflect them. Samus doesn't have a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to Zelda, but she is really slow and tall, which is the worst combination when it comes to Zelda's feet. I would definitely say she has to move up at least a few characters on that list to somewhere near Peach.

Samus has, let's see, 3 KO moves.



KO MOVES:

Charge Shot
Spike
D-tilt.

Charge shot: It can easily catch anyone off guard, so this is where it becomes less character specific and more player specific. If you know how to space well and quickly, then this really isn't that big of an issue. But since this is character based, I would have to say that Zelda can easily reflect this move.

Zelda > Samus.

The Spike is admittedly difficult to maneouver away from by most characters, but Zelda has (imo) the best recoveries in the game. All of her B moves can be used for recovery and even strung together for added recovery. Who else can do that? However, her primary recovery, FW, takes a lot of time to start up. If you're too slow, you'll be eating fist.

Spike: Samus > Zelda.

D-tilt is one of Samus's hardest moves to connect. It takes quite a long time. And since you both have to be on the ground, and Zelda's D-smash, F-smash or NL take much less time to initiate, I would have to say Zelda gets the upper hand here.

D-tilt: Zelda > Samus.



SETUPS:

F-air to D-air.

F-air:

This move is extremely difficult to DI away from if it connects at the right time. Fortunately, it doesn't do that very often... It's the last hit that really counts, and the first ones seem to move you in the opposite direction for some reason...

For me, Samus seems to be really slow. It's like she's permanently stuck in this low-gravity dimension or something.

Now, this is character specific, so, I will assume it connects relatively well.

Zelda has a LOT of start up time on all of her recovery moves. Assuming she just got hit with the F-air, she is most likely to try to dodge, FW, or F/B-air.

If it's an FW, Samus can easily d-air before you have the chance. Not recommended.

If it's an air dodge, Samus can't do jack. Zelda has a really long air dodge that doesn't necessarily have to be timed as perfectly as, say, Sheik. Definitely recommended.

If it's an side-air, well, the sweetspot isn't guaranteed at a time like this. I would only go for it if I was desperate and thought I could get it. The thing is, by this time, Samus is probably fully aware of my direction, and could dodge/attack before I get the chance. Not recommended.

Considering you stick to your air-dodges, then Zelda > Samus.

(Gotta run. I'll check out Zelda's KOs and Setups when I get back.)

djbrowny, Water Gun alone can destroy Zelda, lol (well, not pro Zeldas of course, lol)

And Zelda >>>>>>> Samus, I don't even know why that's even a discussion...

Mega-Japan said:

djbrowny, Water Gun alone can destroy Zelda, lol (well, not pro Zeldas of course, lol)

And Zelda >>>>>>> Samus, I don't even know why that's even a discussion...

Click to expand...

not a chance it's that unbalanced... you aren't playing NEAR good enough samuses if this is what you think

^ i don't think he really thinks zelda beats samus by that much he is just saying that zelda beats samus and there is no real point discussing it anymore and that we should move on.

Samus only has advantages at midrange and her weight. Zelda has better distance play, being bale to reflect projectiles and throw Din's of her own. Up close, most of Samus's moves aren't fast enough for Zelda's smashes and Nayru's. Zelda's F-smash has better reach than Samus's too. Samus has a good spike, and Zelda being floaty may get caught by it now and again, but Samus is also a easy target for lightning kicks.

Zelda definitely has an advantage. Zair may be annoying, but you could Farore's into her while she does it. She can't shield it if she's in the air doing it.

Main: Zelda

I have a problem with Snake. I've said this many times before and I still feel the same way. It's currently neutral, but Snake has an advantage and here's why. Being slow and floaty it's hard to get around Snake's traps like the grenades and mortars. Cooked grenades means they'll blow up in your face if you try to reflect it. Snakes f-tilt outprioritizes all your moves and is simply too fast, even faster than your d-smash. Snake is insanely powerful and heavy. That means he's hard to kill and he;ll have an easy time killing you. His u-tilt can kill you in the 80s. Also his dash is so fast and hard to stop. Din's only neutralizes it, it doesn't actually stop it, and neither goes f-smash. I want to try d-tilt against it though, but at this point all you can to is spotdodge and even then if he mortarslides the attack can last longer than your dodge.

Zelda's biggest advantage is an easy spike if Snake is recovering from below, but that doesn't happen nearly enough. Every time it's been an uphill battle playing against Snake He definitely has an advantage.

Current Discussion RECAP/Update

SAMUS

-A few Zelda mains are citing this as either a bad matchup, or simply not the favorable matchup it's listed as. However, a majority of players are still saying that Zelda has the advantage.

-It seems generally acknowledged that while Zelda is favored at either close range or far range, Samus can abuse and dominate at medium range due to her z-air having no lag.

-So far it seems that the most players agree that Zelda still has a slight advantage on Samus. But that "slight" is exactly the right word. She does not counter Samus. But that the odds are tipped just a little bit in Zelda favor.

SONIC

-Not much has been said about this matchup, although a few Zelda mainers are maintaining that Zelda does have an advantage against him, due to her priority. Moreso, many are saying that the current matchup chart is correct, that Zelda has a slight advantage and not a large one. One reason being that his speed allows him to get in quickly.

-General discussion has said that Zelda's floatiness, speed, priority, etc. Makes it hard for Sonic to either combo or punish her. His ability to get in close is still a problem, but his speed seems to be the only thing going for him. Still, speed+mindgames can lead to you getting killed. Not to mention that his speed kills Zelda's projectile game, as it is easier for him to bypass and punish Din's in situations where it's ordinarily safe.

--------------

I'm going to leave discussion on these two characters open for a few more days before moving on to some new ones. Remember that discussion never fully closes, but I'm going to post what's been said so far about these two in the original post after a few more days. So get your word in now.

Glad to see everyone is passionate about the Samus matchup. Keep the debate going.

But don't forget to mention Sonic, he's being a little overshadowed. Even if it's simply reiterating where you think he's placed and why. We don't have to disprove the current matchup placement, but it's good to reaffirm it if it's the truth.

ok so i will put in my 2 cents about sonic. i feel like he might be tough if you are a very offense oriented zelda. with his speed i feel a attacking zelda will be overwhelmed. now i don't think sonic has the advantage b/c a zelda that plays defence will win this battle with little problem. since sonic is so fast going out of your way to hit him will get you punished but if you play defence and make him approach hea is pretty easy to beat by just blocking and punishing him, or you could just read his attack and counter attack. so what i am saying is that a zelda playing defence wont have a very hard time as long as you don't make unforced errors. also i am not saying a offense zelda can't win or even has the disadvantage i just feel they will have a harder time then a zelda playing defence.

Honestly, I have to say, Sonic isn't that fast. ZSS is way faster than sonic.

Take his f-smash for example: He pauses, leans all the way back, goes all the way forward, and punches. If you're quick enough Zelda can easilly pull out her f-smash before him.

He has like, ZERO range. No projectiles AT ALL. He runs well and he has that roll of his which is easily dodged.

His recovery puts him in the perfect position for a spike or lightning kick, and that homing move of his is easily u-smashed.

If Zelda goes to offense here, Sonic gets owned. She needs to pressure him and then counter when she sees him attack.

S2 said:

Current Discussion RECAP/Update

SAMUS

-A few Zelda mains are citing this as either a bad matchup, or simply not the favorable matchup it's listed as. However, a majority of players are still saying that Zelda has the advantage.

-It seems generally acknowledged that while Zelda is favored at either close range or far range, Samus can abuse and dominate at medium range due to her z-air having no lag.

-So far it seems that the most players agree that Zelda still has a slight advantage on Samus. But that "slight" is exactly the right word. She does not counter Samus. But that the odds are tipped just a little bit in Zelda favor.

SONIC

-Not much has been said about this matchup, although a few Zelda mainers are maintaining that Zelda does have an advantage against him, due to her priority. Moreso, many are saying that the current matchup chart is correct, that Zelda has a slight advantage and not a large one. One reason being that his speed allows him to get in quickly.

-General discussion has said that Zelda's floatiness, speed, priority, etc. Makes it hard for Sonic to either combo or punish her. His ability to get in close is still a problem, but his speed seems to be the only thing going for him. Still, speed+mindgames can lead to you getting killed.

--------------

I'm going to leave discussion on these two characters open for a few more days before moving on to some new ones. Remember that discussion never fully closes, but I'm going to post what's been said so far about these two in the original post after a few more days. So get your word in now.

Glad to see everyone is passionate about the Samus matchup. Keep the debate going.

But don't forget to mention Sonic, he's being a little overshadowed. Even if it's simply reiterating where you think he's placed and why. We don't have to disprove the current matchup placement, but it's good to reaffirm it if it's the truth.

Click to expand...

oh and, don't forget... Din's fire is useless against a grounded sonic... he can spindash right through it and punish you in the face... all he wants from you are openings... don't make them for him >_<

Main: Yoshi but secondary is samus

I think spamus (lol) is a neutral matchup for zelda. Zelda is a good character because of her dins fire to deal damage at long range, and her quick, powerful smashes and spaced aerials at close range. Samus can deal with zeldas spam, can use the opportunity to charge a charge shot. At mid range, samus can pressure with zairs, and zelda doesnt have the tools to deal with zair spam effectively. Spamus can full hop 2 homing missles , then follow them to establish her postion, and after being reflected, they wont go far enough to hit samus. The problem is when samus needs a kill. THe best way is to predict an airdodge and charge shot, but its easier said than done. This is when zelda can turn the tables. Neutral or in samus's advantage imo.

Sonic The Hedgedawg said:

not a chance it's that unbalanced... you aren't playing NEAR good enough samuses if this is what you think

Click to expand...

lol @ telling me I haven't played good Samus'...

N.A.G.A.C.E said:

^ i don't think he really thinks zelda beats samus by that much he is just saying that zelda beats samus and there is no real point discussing it anymore and that we should move on.

Click to expand...

Pretty much =).

SinkingHigher said:

Honestly, I have to say, Sonic isn't that fast. ZSS is way faster than sonic.

Take his f-smash for example: He pauses, leans all the way back, goes all the way forward, and punches. If you're quick enough Zelda can easilly pull out her f-smash before him.

He has like, ZERO range. No projectiles AT ALL. He runs well and he has that roll of his which is easily dodged.

His recovery puts him in the perfect position for a spike or lightning kick, and that homing move of his is easily u-smashed.

If Zelda goes to offense here, Sonic gets owned. She needs to pressure him and then counter when she sees him attack.

Click to expand...

good luck getting sonic into the position to spike or lightning kick him off of his recovery, he just has way too many options to do that to him, your more likely to kill sonic with a Fsmash than any edgegaurd.

N.A.G.A.C.E said:

^ i don't think he really thinks zelda beats samus by that much he is just saying that zelda beats samus and there is no real point discussing it anymore and that we should move on.

Click to expand...

Mega-Japan said:

And Zelda >>>>>>> Samus, I don't even know why that's even a discussion...

Click to expand...

This is a DISCUSSION thread. You DISCUSS things. Period.

The Samus board more than likely wouldn't say the same thing, so obviously you need to form a coherent argument... otherwise, don't say anything at all.

burntsocks said:

Main: Yoshi but secondary is samus

I think spamus (lol) is a neutral matchup for zelda. Zelda is a good character because of her dins fire to deal damage at long range, and her quick, powerful smashes and spaced aerials at close range. Samus can deal with zeldas spam, can use the opportunity to charge a charge shot. At mid range, samus can pressure with zairs, and zelda doesnt have the tools to deal with zair spam effectively. Spamus can full hop 2 homing missles , then follow them to establish her postion, and after being reflected, they wont go far enough to hit samus. The problem is when samus needs a kill. THe best way is to predict an airdodge and charge shot, but its easier said than done. This is when zelda can turn the tables. Neutral or in samus's advantage imo.

Click to expand...

There is no way Samus has an advantage. Just no way, her moves are too slow. How can she have an advantage when you admitted she has trouble killing Zelda? At the very very least it's a neutral fight, but the slight advantage goes to Zelda. Samus has too many moves that are punishable for Zelda. Her Zair gives Samus a good approach but her options are quite limited for once she gets in, as Zelda won't have a hard time getting her back out. Or even worse, keeping her close to her.

Defensive Zeldas will have a field day with Sonic. Offensive Zeldas will make fools of themselves. Sonic is also nearly impossible to edgeguard from the side. If he's coming from below though, you may have a viable spike, but I'm not sure.

Successor of Raphael said:

This is a DISCUSSION thread. You DISCUSS things. Period.

The Samus board more than likely wouldn't say the same thing, so obviously you need to form a coherent argument... otherwise, don't say anything at all.

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i wrote a coherent argument also for why i feel zelda >samus. just pointing that out

FirebyrdXX said:

There is no way Samus has an advantage. Just no way, her moves are too slow. How can she have an advantage when you admitted she has trouble killing Zelda? At the very very least it's a neutral fight, but the slight advantage goes to Zelda. Samus has too many moves that are punishable for Zelda. Her Zair gives Samus a good approach but her options are quite limited for once she gets in, as Zelda won't have a hard time getting her back out. Or even worse, keeping her close to her.

Click to expand...

Samus doesnt get in silly. Why would a low priority, slow character want to get close to a wall of high priority smashes doh. She stays outside and zairs and missles u you all day. Just because a character has trouble killing doesnt mean that its not their advantage. Ur right its probably neutral. We all know how zelda cant approach, so samus can just zone zelda until its time to kill. I make it sound too easy for samus, its not exactly a piece of cake to space yourself so that zelda cant pull out a dins or approach, but its quite possible, and even if she does get in, samus can use her ftilt or jab to get some space, and she can dsmash OOS well. Also, Zelda isnt hard to edgeguard, samus can put alot of pressure on someone holding the edge, and if they dont grab the edge, and utilt will seal the deal.

N.A.G.A.C.E said:

i wrote a coherent argument also for why i feel zelda >samus. just pointing that out

Click to expand...

Yes, you wrote a paragraph on what you thought of the match-up. That's not going to solidify anything on its own, and therefore you can't just pass it by like it's completely solved. You need input from both sides before we can just let it sit, since people who want insight on the match-up will only get something they might already know anyway.

By no means am I condescending you, but I am saying that the discussion is not over and it is not time for us to move on.

^ yea i just wanted to point out i did write something so people don't just think i was saying it was a dumb disscusion without putting my thoughts in. and i was just pointing out what mega ment to sth even through i agree that zelda beats samus. also i would like to piont out to burnstock that samus only wins at mid range with her zair and her missles can be refelcted and her target missles are slow and can be blocked easly or doged. also even through zelda is not great at approaching it should not be that hard to get close to samus b/c you could just walk in and shield when ever samus tries to attack or reflect depending what the samus is doing and once zelda gets close she has more priority range and killing power. Also samus has trouble killing so i don't see how people could think samus>zelda or even samus=zelda i am not saying zelda has a huge adavantage but she does have the advantage i feel.

Successor of Raphael said:

This is a DISCUSSION thread. You DISCUSS things. Period.

The Samus board more than likely wouldn't say the same thing, so obviously you need to form a coherent argument... otherwise, don't say anything at all.

Click to expand...

lol, I'd like to play you big boy =)

And btw, a bunch of people already pointed out why Zelda owns Samus, and repeating what they said is pointless, kthxbye.

Mega-Japan said:

lol, I'd like to play you big boy =)

And btw, a bunch of people already pointed out why Zelda owns Samus, and repeating what they said is pointless, kthxbye.

Click to expand...

You think I'm a Samus player? You'd be mistaken if that's what you think. Otherwise, I don't see the point in playing me at all, since you counter words with words, not stupid challenges.

To have a mostly unbiased, "true" match-up analysis, you need to get input from both sides. "A bunch of people" = mostly Zelda players... or, more importantly, people who don't play as Samus. Repeating what they say is pointless - say something new, or don't say anything at all.

Also, don't end your posts towards me with "kthxbye"; it makes you look like an arrogant moron, no offense.

Haha, "look."

Other than Zair Samus has nothing on Zelda. Contrary to the Sonic matchup, it seems like being offensive gives you the edge. It's better to be up in Samus's face than let her get maximum spacing for Zair. Recovering from above the stage with Farore's is helpful, staying grounded is key. Samus's projectiles are just no match for Din's Fire and Nayru's Love.

Mega-Japan said:

lol, I'd like to play you big boy =)

And btw, a bunch of people already pointed out why Zelda owns Samus, and repeating what they said is pointless, kthxbye.

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its actually pretty even matchup if samus isn't an idiot. 2 homing missiles in a full jump with no landing lag means samus can easily get into mid range and safe from naryus reflecting the homing missiles since they don't go far once reflected, and that leaves zelda open for spamming Zair and missiles, and while its easy to dodge the missles, its also easy to predict where your going to dodge and samus can counter on that, it limits zeldas movements and makes her movements more predictable.

Iris said:

Haha, "look."

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I'm sorry, am I not being technical enough for you, or do you legitimately think I'm talking about physically looking at the person... or are you just pretending to be silly?

Also, how in the hell are Samus's projectiles no match for Zelda's Din's Fire? Samus can fire a missile and shield Din's while Zelda either cancels or takes a hit.

Ive made many points as to why its even, nobody has argued with it yet. Also lol@zelda going on offense. The problem with her is that she is extremely bad at going on offense. Her only approach is her dash attack, which, while being a fairly good attack, isnt a very good approach. Samus has trouble at close range, but luckily, zelda will have a hard time staying there. If zelda comes from the air, she gets zaired. If she comes from the ground, she gets SM then zaired (so if u reflect it u get zaired and samus can shield the SM after the zair). So yea, zair>zelda lolz (not really, but its the reason the matchup is neutral.

Successor of Raphael said:

You think I'm a Samus player? You'd be mistaken if that's what you think. Otherwise, I don't see the point in playing me at all, since you counter words with words, not stupid challenges.

To have a mostly unbiased, "true" match-up analysis, you need to get input from both sides. "A bunch of people" = mostly Zelda players... or, more importantly, people who don't play as Samus. Repeating what they say is pointless - say something new, or don't say anything at all.

Also, don't end your posts towards me with "kthxbye"; it makes you look like an arrogant moron, no offense.

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lol, you're funny...

gantrain05 said:

its actually pretty even matchup if samus isn't an idiot. 2 homing missiles in a full jump with no landing lag means samus can easily get into mid range and safe from naryus reflecting the homing missiles since they don't go far once reflected, and that leaves zelda open for spamming Zair and missiles, and while its easy to dodge the missles, its also easy to predict where your going to dodge and samus can counter on that, it limits zeldas movements and makes her movements more predictable.

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Hm, you do prove a point, Homing Missiles are usually annoying for Zelda, however, ZAir shouldn't really be a problem, it can easily be blocked and if it manages to hit once or twice. it only does 4% damage each, a good Zelda would recover from that quick. If blocked, Zelda can punish, even if it is auto-canceled once on the ground, she can still grab before Samus is able to do something.

I learned from the best.

burnstock in my last post i responded to u. also the seeker missles are slow and easy to get by. plus zelda has more then just the dash attack to approach but it is true her approach is not great but since samus at long range has nothing that zelda can't deal with and at mid range only has the zair the zelda should be able to get in close by shielding samus's attacks or reflecting them. then at close range zelda wins big.

also i forget (been a while since my last samus fight) can you use dins to blow up samus's missles?

Why do people are giving so much credit to Samus' aerial Grapple Beam? Sure is a nice attack with good spacing but... it only does 4% damage. Yeah, sure it can rack up and all, but you would have to be playing one dumb Zelda if that Zelda isn't able to dodge or block an easy-to-predict attack...

And yes, Din blows missiles as if they were toys...

@ Anyone

If Samus is zoning with missiles, can Zelda Farore's punish Samus from long range (teleporting into her)?

If so, that's one option to completely bypass Samus' midrange advantage.