Royal Protection - A guide on using Toad (The re visit!)

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 17, 2008

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been done before so here we go.
Could I point out that this (probably) won't be much use to all your uber tournament player Peach's and you're probably already good enough to know when/how to use Toad effectivly
Oh and I'm not a Toad fanatic I swear.

Contents:
1. The Basics of Toad
2. Toad's actual counter
3. Using Toad on the ground
4. Using Toad in the air
5. Using Toad to counter Snake
6. Using Toad in Teams
7. Toad Tips and Tricks
8. Gimping Recoveries with Toad
9. Toad's disadvantages
10. Final Words about Toad
11. Moves that Toad will not work on/are not worth Toading
12. Moves that will reflect Toad's spores back at Peach when countered

This guide is dedicated to none other than Toad himself. I feel there should be a guide for him because when used right he can turn the match on it's head. I've beaten some people becuase they simply walk into Toad and get countered. Many people regard Toad as useless since he wasn't very effective in Melee. Well those people are very wrong. Toad works wonders in Brawl and can now even KO or at least set up KO's. Anyway I'm rambling, let's get on with the guide.

1. The Basics of Toad

By using your Neutral Special (pressing B) you can unleash Toad.

Toad is effectivly a counter, like Marth's or Lucario's. If you use Toad and an attack connects, the attack and damage you normally recieve will be cancelled out. Toad will then release some spores which will do damage to your opponent. Sounds good right? Toad can be used both in the air and on the ground making his use very flexible indeed.
When you first unleash Toad, you have a few frames (frames are the rate at which everything moves in Smash Bros. They determine how long something takes or how quickly it begins when the command is issued for example) of start up lag (getting Toad out) and then of invincibilty (my knowledge on frames is very limited so I apologise if anything is wrong). You then have the counter frames, where if an attack connects Toad counter attacks. If an attack connects, there will be a moments pause and Toad will release spores. Peach moves slightly back at this point. When all the spores have been released, Peach puts Toad away (never you mind where).

If Toad does not hit anything, then Peach simply puts Toad away after waggling him in the enemies face for about 2 seconds.
Toad is normally used to counter a paticularly nasty attack that could result in a KO or simply to counter an attack to help set up combos and damage builders. He is also used in a situation where ordinary dodging won't help and also if your sheild is too small to protect you from attacks/is about to shatter. Toad is never normally relied on as a KO move, as such a high percentage is needed to kill someone with the spores

2. Toad's actual counter

When an attack hits Toad, like I said he release spores and the counterattack is activated. Peach is protected at this point. Oddly, the attack being countered does not have to be facing Toad. If hit at the back on Peach, the counter will be activated, regardless of which way Peach is facing. However, the spores will only be released in front of Peach (the way her and Toad are facing). The spores will usually do about 18% damage if most of them hit. At higher percentages, if the counter connects, the spores will send the opponent flying, putting them in a very dangerous situation and giving you an opportunity to KO them whilst they try to recover

3. Using Toad on the ground
Toad on the ground is mainly used for catching the enemy off guard or preventing a paticurlaly nasty attack that's about to hit you. It can also be used to stop projectile spammers.

Example.
Peach vs Link
Link spams his Arrows at the edge of the stage
Peach continually dodges and gets close to Link
Link gets worried and use's an F smash
Peach uses Toad
Toad's counter stops the spammer and throws him off the edge
Link's recovery sucks - Peach edgeguards
Link dies

In situations like these however, sometimes it's best to keep your distance so that they'll keep on spamming projectiles and then you can use the projectile to counter. You're far away enough to react and use Toad but close enough for at least a few of the spores.

In a situation like this however, Toad works wonders. I cannot stress how many people I've surprised (and I think once or twice KOed in Sudden Death :chuckle:

) by using Toad

Example.
Peach vs Fox
Projectile fight, Peach is Glide Tossing and Fox is using his Blaster to force Peach to approach
Fox realises Peach is getting close, stops firing his Blaster and charges at her with a dash attack cancelled Up Smash
Peach stops and uses Toad
Fox is sent flying
Peach has not been hit with the Up Smash and can now follow up with something else

4. Using Toad in the air
Toad in the air has all sorts of uses. It can be used to recover by stalling your fall and move you forwards slightly, can be used to protect yourself against projectiles in the air and also help you get rid of people pressuring you whilst trying to recover.
Toad works slightly differently in the air in that when you first use him in the air, Peach travels upwards slightly. Continued use in the air without touching the ground will result in Toad being unleashed normally. When you use Toad more than once in the air, you'll slow down a bit and then fall (I think you fall a bit faster than normal). Because you've used it more than once in the air without touching the ground, you do not get the little 'bounce' in the air that you do in the first use of Toad in the air.
The ability to use Toad in the air is an excellent way to surprise your enemies, paticularly those who rely on their aerials as kill moves

Example.

Peach vs Samus
Things aren't going well for Peach and she is getting juggled in the air. She's at a percentage where one hit could mean death
Samus decides to finish things and brings out the Back Air as Peach is falling
Peach uses Toad
Samus is sent off, surprising her
Peach can now either space herself with Turnips or follow up with an attack

I said earlier that Toad can help get people off your back when you're trying to recover

Example.
Peach vs Ike
Peach has been sent flying by Ike but luckily she hasn't been KOed. Peach now makes it her business to get back on the stage. She's falling diagonally downwards facing the stage because her Float has run out
Ike charges up an F Smash, positioning it so that grabbing onto the ledge means a high risk of getting hit
Peach gets close to Ike
Ike unleashes his charged F Smash
Peach uses Toad
Toad counters and sends Ike away
Peach grabs onto the ledge (with her Up + B if needed) climbs back onto the stage and the fight continues

Getting back on the stage when clinging onto the ledge can be a very dangerous situation indeed. Toad can indeed get you out of this

Example.
Peach vs Mario
Mario is pressuring Peach off the stage. Peach is having great difficulty getting back on the stage
Peach manages to cling onto the ledge
Mario moves in for a D Smash
Peach drops of the ledge, uses her 2nd jump almost instantly and uses Toad
Toad counters and Mario is sent away
Peach uses her Up + B to recover and the fight continues

Using Toad in the air can also be useful for approaching spammers

Example.
Peach vs Lucario
Lucario is spamming Aura Spheres
Peach jumps over the Spheres and floats towards him
Lucario charges up an Aura Sphere and prepares it for when Peach lands
Peach approachs Lucario whilst floating drops her float fairly close to him
Lucario releases the charged Aura Sphere
Peach uses Toad
Lucario is sent away and left vunerable
Peach follows up with an aerial attack

5. Using Toad to counter Snake
I've put this in because I originally thought Toad couldn't counter explosives, which is what Snake

(who is considered the best character atm)<----Lolololoutdated

uses a lot of. This was because Toad can't reflect Snake's Final Smash which uses explosives. However, after much testing, I have proved myself wrong and it turns out you can reflect all of Snake's explosives. That even includes having a C4 stuck to yourself, his F Smash and also having cooked grenades thrown at you. Yes I'm an idiot for saying you can't but if no one else has realised this I claim it as my find :dizzy:

I have yet to test these below examples as I rarely play Snakes... sorry

Example
Peach vs Snake
Snake sticks a C4 on Peach
Snake spaces himself a bit and Peach is close but far away enough for Snake to be safe from the C4
Snake shouts "Now!" and detonates the C4
When Peach hears Snake shout "Now!", she uses Toad (you have to predict when he's going to use it or just have really fast reactions)
Toad counters the explosives and Snake gets spores in his face

Another Example (I find this quite neat myself)
Peach vs Snake
Snake uses his Down Smash to plant a mine near himself and goes into campy mode
Peach draws in with an instant float
When Peach gets very close to the Down Smash planted mine, she uses Toad
Toad causes the mine to explode. Toad's counter activates and the campy Snake gets spores in his face

I promise I'll do some more research as in whether or not Toad will be any good against say Mortar Sliding...and after doing more research it seems it isn't. Peach's hitstun just lasts too long for her to bring out Toad after she sent up in the air during the Mortar Slide. By all means counter Snake when he's about to roll into you but as for avoiding that Mortar when you've been hit...for now, sorry I haven't a solution

6. Using Toad in Teams
After giving some thought and looking at a few videos, I've noticed that Toad can be used effectivly in Teams. As long as Friendly Fire is On, Peach's team mate can set off her counter at any time they wish, such as in this example (which I can't try effectivly because CPU's suck). I like to call the one the Blonde Bimbo Bomb :chuckle:

Example.
Peach + Snake vs Ganondorf + Ness
Both Ganondorf and Ness have been sent off the stage
Snake sticks a C4 on Peach
The fight continues
Snake gets sent flying and Peach is left to deal with Ganondorf and Ness whilst Snake recovers
Snake tells Peach he is going to detonate the C4, still stuck on Peach
Snake uses his Down + B whilst Peach brings out Toad
The C4, currently on Peach, detonates.
Toad counters the C4 and Ganondorf and Ness get spores in their face

I very rarely fight in teams so these are merely suggestions. In order to pull off stuff like this, you need good communication with your team mate

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 17, 2008

7. Toad Tips and Tricks

First off and the most important one IMO is the Reverse Toad. (Turns out that this is B Reversal and that I'm not the first to find it oh well good job on the person who did...I think it was Jewdo) I'm copying this from another thread because I'm lazy. I admit I changed it slightly because some of it was a bit incorrect

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:

Reverse Toad
What it says on the tin. This only works in the air though. What you do is tap the opposite direction your facing and immediatly press B (don't press them together or do it too soon or you'll do a Peach Bomber). You'll use Toad but you'll be facing the opposite direction. This was possible in Melee but no one used Toad then. I'd like to point out that this is not like the Reverse Punches. It has no extra turning or start up animation. It acts as though you've used Toad normally but instead you're facing the other way. I personally love this move as it's very useful for if I'm facing the wrong way in the air and someone like Meta Knight is chasing me and about to hit me with something. It can also be used to trick people if they're try to edge hog me and they're charging up a smash attack. Simply unleash Toad in their face :D Since there's no difference to using Toad normally, they don't expect it. This can be done with a lot (probably all) of Neutral B moves so I imagine people know about this. But it doesn't hurt to say it again

Click to expand...

As explained, doing this gives you a huge element of surprise and makes the use of Toad very flexible indeed
Note: This can be done on the ground as well but it's much harder to do. You to do it the opposite way round, by pressing B and then IMMEDIATLY slamming the joystick in the opposite direction you're facing

Toad Bounce in the air (see Using Toad in the air) When Peach uses Toad for the first time in the air, you get a little bounce and Peach goes upward slightly. This can be used to dodge an enemy attack if you're slightly above/infront of it and the attack is too huge to air dodge. Note, in order to get a Toad Bounce in the again, you need to touch the ground

Like all your other special moves, you can use Toad whilst floating. You don't have to drop your float to use Toad but if you do use Toad, then your float is gone. Use with caution and if someone like Meta knight is pursuing you in the air

Toad's counter spores CAN be absorbed by the PSI Magnet (Down + B) that Ness and Lucas have and converted into healing just like other projectiles

Toad's counter does indeed suffer from Stale Move Negation (if used constantly, the damage and knockback will be lower). Thanks Meno

If Olimar has thrown Pikmin at you and they have latched onto you and they are damaging you, you can actually use them to set off the counter (Cheers Edreese). The problem is that, (update) this won't kill the Pikmin on you if they've latched onto the back part of you and they'll continue damaging you so use with caution. As for Purple Pikmin, they don't latch onto you so if you Toad them, they don't hit you because the counter is set off. The counter will kill them but there's been times where they've absorbed all the damage and Olimar has waddled over to me and KOed me due to the ending lag

After a certain trick played by a few certain people on a certain account, I learnt Toad can kill very easily when the damage ratio is at 2.0 (I never bother changing the damage ratio). I'm going to say this here and now. If anyone tries to trick me into adding this paticular 'glitch' that supposdly involves Toad and Meta-Knight to the guide, or calls me stupid for not adding it in because this glitch is 'teh haxor vs meat knight', I will completly disregard whatever else you may have to say and your opinion in any of my other guides will be completly ignored

Oh and if that certain person is reading this guide, for the love of god change your password. You know who you are

8. Gimping Recoveries with Toad
So after all your hard work at getting someone off the stage they're trying to get back on and put your efforts to nought? We can't have that happening. You could egdeguard them or gimp them with Turnips but sometimes that's not an option or Turnips won't go through. So use Toad to counter their Up + B's in their face. (Please note I've only done this with Ike. I don't have anyone else helping me so try to understand - I only have two hands and using two controllers is tricky. I'll do more testing...Later!

)

Example.
Peach vs Ike
The Fight begins
Peach starts pressuring Ike and eventually get's him off the stage.
Ike is at a point where his Side B is not going to get him anywhere. He decides to use his Up + B to prevent himself from being edgeguarded
Ike activates Aether. Peach predicts this (yea you have to be fast with this one) and uses Toad
Ike get's halfway through his Aether animation...and get's a load of spores in his face
Ike plummets do his doom. Sakurai screams "You must recover!" but too late. Toad's counter has sent Ike too far for him to have any hope of recovering

Note, in situations like these, if Ike doesn't react quickly, you can actually Toad his recovery and kill him at 0%. Ok so he won't be jumping off the ledge at his own will but if he's edge hogging and trying to Aether you away by constantly dropping off and using his Up + B, Toad will ruin him

Update: This causing me a hell of a lot of trouble as CPU's are crap at certain recoveries and it is very difficult to get them in the right spot. Here is what I've found out at the present moment.

Example.
Peach vs Olimar
The match is incredibly close and neither side is giving up. Both Peach and Olimar are at very high percents
Peach manages to land a Peach Bomber on Olimar
This sends him flying diagonally down sideways
Peach runs towards the edge to edgeguard him
There is no way Olimar can get back on the stage whilst Peach is clinging on the ledge, as he can't hit her with any aerials because the Peach Bomber has knocked him too far down
In a desperate act to take her with him, Olimar uses his Up + B. The egdeguarding Peach means his tether recovery won't work, but they are both at such a high percentage that getting hit with the Up + B will mean doom for Peach because her invinciblty frames on the ledge have gone
Peach predicts (unless you have ninja like timing) when Olimar will use his Up + B
Peach Taps the opposite way she is facing to drop off the ledge. She then immediatly uses Toad, timing it so she doesn't accidently do a Peach Bomber
The opposite direction tap causes Toad to reverse
Olimar's Up + B hits Toad and latches onto the now edge free stage
Olimar's Up + B pulls him up the ledge...
...resulting in him getting a load of spores in his face because his Up + B activated Toad's counter, sending him flying and possibly killing him
Peach uses her 2nd jump then her Up + B. She is now clinging back onto the ledge. If Olimar tries his Up + B again, the invinciblity frames from grabbing the ledge (hopefully) protect Peach
Olimar dies

Example.
Peach vs Falco
Falco is Peach Bombered off the edge
Peach grabs onto the ledge
Falco's Side B is useless since he is too far below the stage ledge
Falco decides to get rid of the now edgeguarding Peach by using his 2nd jump and starts his Up + B near Peach in the hope that the Up + B's fire before it takes off will force Peach to let go
Peach taps the opposite way she is facing and uses a Reverse Toad because of the tap
The fire coming out of Falco's Up + B sets off Toad's counter
Spores are released and Falco is sent away
Falco's recovery sucks, there is no way he can recover because once again he is too below the ledge to use his Side B, his 2nd jump is gone and using his Up + B diagonally towards the ledge doesn't get him anywhere
Falco plummets to his doom

9. Toad's disadvantages
Like all moves, Toad has his disadvantages and some of them can get you killed.

For starters, he does have start up lag. It's not much but if you aren't quick enough then the invincibilty frames/counter frames won't kick in if your oppenent gets the hit in first
Toad also has finishing lag. Might not seem much but it can ruin you if it doesn't work properly.

Toad, to my knowledge CANNOT reflect explosives. So if Snake has stucks his Down B on you or a Grenade is about to explode in your face or he's Mortar Sliding all over the place please don't try to reflect the explosions. It'll ~~leave nasty stains on your dress~~ get you killed or send you flying because explosives send you flying. Only in the case of a Bo-omb can you reflect it...sort of. When it's walk around on it's own accord, if you use Toad and the Bo-omb walks into you, spores will be released and the Bo-omb will keep on walking straight past you

^I am an idiot

The spores can actually be reflected back at you. A very good example is Pit's Side B move (which imo is ridiculous). This move does damage but it also reflects projectiles

Example.
Peach vs Pit
Pit uses his Side B on Peach
Peach DI's out of the Side B and uses Toad
Pit's Side B reflects projectiles
Toad's counter is activated...and then reflected back into poor old Peach's face

Some attacks are far too quick to even get hit by the spores. If they go straight past you and the spores miss, you will be in a very VERY dangerous position indeed due to the ending lag

Example.
Peach vs Wolf
Wolf is off the stage. He is however, close enough to use his Up + B horizontally
Peach sees this and uses Toad
Wolf and Toad connect...but Wolf, who has not finished his Up + B goes straight past the spores Toad counters with
Peach is left very vunerable with the actual counter lag and ending lag
Wolf KO's Peach

I mentioned earlier that when trying to recover, you can use Toad to get the enemy off your back. That's all well and good but it can sometimes back fire horribly, especially if you've already used Toad (and the Toad Bounce) in the air

Example
Peach vs Ike situation
Ike unleashes his charged F Smash when Peach is trying to get back on the stage
Peach uses Toad
Ike's F Smash is countered and he's sent away
Because of the counter and ending lag, Peach can't grab onto the ledge. Peach uses her Up + B to grab the ledge...
...and misses because the counter/ending lag is made a sink too far down. Peach floats down to her death and the counter has backfired horribly

At times like this, it is critical that you remember whether or not you have used your 2nd jump

I don't know about you but Peach is very bad when she's high in the air. Getting back on the ground can be a very dangerous job indeed. If you see some following you, if they go for an aerial attack by all means use Toad but don't use it if they're charging an Up Smash on the ground. It's too risky and Toad won't do very well

Toad can't counter grabs. Sorry. And btw, you leave yourself very vunerable to grabbing if the counter doesn't work

10. Final Words about Toad
That pretty much concludes my guide I think. As you can see, Toad has great potential and can really help you at the worst of times. Toad is very useful. But (please read this part as it is very important) you must remember, especially with Toad...

NEVER EVER SPAM TOAD. NEVER NEVER EVER BECOME PREDICTABLE WITH TOAD. IT WILL GET YOU KILLED

I cannot stress how important this is. I was once very Toad spammy indeed because it worked against a lot of people. Then I came across someone (no I'm not gonna say who he can post here if wants to

) who trashed me everytime. I used Toad, he rolled behind me and smashed me to my death. I had to change my playing style and I owe him for that because I can beat him now (the matches are still very close but I can win now instead of getting 2 stocked) and I don't spam Toad as much anymore so I'm not as predictable. I also play against an Ike a lot and let me tell you, if you get predicted, you die.

Example
Peach vs Ike
Ike has knocked Peach into the sky. Peach is falling back down
Ike charges up an Up Smash. Peach knows that this will kill her and it covers the whole of Ike
Peach tries to be clever and falls near Ike
Peach uses Toad
Ike predicts this, waits for Toad to start finishing and unleashes his charged Up Smash
Peach stands no chance and is KOed

I'd like to point out that all these examples I've used have happened to me so yea they are all very possible

And I do believe that concludes my guide on Toad. I hope this proves useful to those ordinary (and perhaps even those high level) players.

Updated: I've begun to create the list of moves that Toad cannot block or where the counter is reflected back in Peach's face. If anyone can add to it, please do as this will probably take some time

11. Moves that Toad will not work on/have a very very high chanch of not hitting

Fully charged F Smash from Bowser - Found this out whilst messing around in Training. If Bowser fully charges his F Smash, he has some kind of invincibilty that, true to his nature, will make Toad useless. The spores do connect but they do about 3% damage...and you get a fully charged F Smash in the face

Kirby's and DeDeDe's and Yoshi's and Wario's Neutral B - Swallow for Kirby, DeDeDe and Yoshi, Bite for Wario. They don't do an attack until you walk into them so there isn't anything for Toad to reflect

Zero Suit Samus' Side B - As if this move wasn't evil enough, it can't be Toad countered...to a certain extent. You either have to be pretty much next to ZSS or near the furthest point the Side B extents out. If your anywhere in the middle, it won't work and you'll get owned

Bowser's Side B - What is it with these Side B's? Anyway, it's technically a type of grab and Toad doesn't work on grabs. You'll be cursing yourself for using it after Bowser brings you down to your doom along with him and his ruddy Bowserciding

Mario's Down B and Squirtle's Neutral B - Fludd and Water Gun don't actually do damage. Nothing to counter therefore it doesn't work

Space Animal's Side B's and Wolf's Up + B - You can reflect spores in their face but, normally, they'll use it too close to you and zoom straight past Toad. Of course, the counter will be activated, leaving you extremely vunerable

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf's Up + B - They latch onto you to **** you attack you so it's technically a type of grab. And Toad doesn't work on grabs. I know the final part of Ganondorf's Up + B attacks you so I'll test to see if that can be reflected

Ganondorf's Side B - Both on the ground and in the air. Not a good idea because it's a type of grab and he can Ganoncide you in the air.

Lucas' Up Smash - well...if you're far away enough from him then he will take damage but...just no. Don't even bother trying to counter this demonic, evil move most of the time. Just get out the way and punish him afterwards because this move is ridiculously powerful

Zelda/Sheik Up + B - Courtesy of TigerWoods. When Zelda/Sheik uses their Up + B it gives off fire that attacks you nefore disappear. You can Toad this but if they reappear in the same place, you'll end up eating fire

Link/Toon Link's Dair - I'll do some more testing on this later. You'll notice that if you get hit by either of the Link's Dair that they bounce off you when they connect. If you use Toad to counter it, they'll bounce off you and due to the ending lag of Toad, you'll get hit by the much weaker, slower falling Dair. You're best off getting out the way and punishing the lag when they land

R.O.B's Side B - Technically, this does work but 99% of the time you'll end up getting hit by the final part of his Side B spin. A very annoying move indeed

12. Moves that will reflect Toad's spores back at Peach when countered

Pit's Side B - Stupid, Stupid Spammy Angel

Lucas' F Smash - Really nasty. This stick is actually very very strong so not only will Toad not work, you risk getting hit by the spores AND the stick

Mario's Cape - Thanks Cedric, I'd completly forgotten about this one. The cape itself can't kill you but get spores reflected in your face sets you up for a KO

Ness' F Smash - Again thanks Cedric. What I said about Lucas, just replace stick with baseball bat

Space Animals Reflectors - Fox is a definate yes and so is Wolf's because they can hold them down for as long as they like. If they don't hold the reflector down (e.g. they are trying to gimp your recovery with their Reflectors, they will get spores in there face because the Reflector won't last long enough to reflect the spores. (Thanks for pointing that out JigglyZelda003). Falco's however, doesn't always work. If you are close enough and they use their Reflector and you try to counter it with Toad, the two connect and Toad releases spores. If Peach and Falco are close enough to each other, the Reflector activates Toad's counter but goes past her and the spores aren't reflected and they hit Falco Good if you can predict when he'll use it

Zelda's Neutral B - Cheers TigerWoods, another one I'd forgotten about. Irritating indeed. DI out of it and punish her if you can because Toad will get you nowhere

Airgemini · Jul 17, 2008

Amazing!
Do you mind if I add this to my 'Read here before posting thread!!'?

TigerWoods · Jul 17, 2008

You know the part about toad not reflecting explosives? Well thats true to a point, toad gives some invincibility frames at the beggining so the beggining can actualy prevent you from being blasted(takes timing though.)

Airgemini · Jul 17, 2008

Also you should add that using Toad against character's Up B's is a pretty useful tactic.

JigglyZelda003 · Jul 17, 2008

do you know what percent Toad can KO someone? or at least the damage needed to KO mario would help cause his weight is average. Toad can also be reversed on the ground but you have to press the other direction immediatly after pressing B i think.

Airgemini · Jul 17, 2008

JigglyZelda003 said:
do you know what percent Toad can KO someone? or at least the damage needed to KO mario would help cause his weight is average. Toad can also be reversed on the ground but you have to press the other direction immediatly after pressing B i think.

Look at the stickied Peach guide. I believe Excel Zero added KO percents to all of her moves.

Anyways Toad KOs Mario at 193% in the middle of FD.

JigglyZelda003 · Jul 17, 2008

oh ok guess thats more of an "if it comes down to it then..." situational KO move. ty anyway.

deepseadiva · Jul 17, 2008

Rick! Yay your my favorite newbie I've decided. :D

Anyways, here's a couple things I've seen in my Toad usage:

- When recovering via float, dead float, whatever, using Toad on the edge as someone is attacking is INCREDIBLY effective - but only as a surprise. Like in the Mario example.
- Use it against Ike.
- Don't use it against the Fox Illusion and Phantasm, they get past the spores and punish from behind.

I like Toad, but should probably use him more.

tpyo · Jul 17, 2008

Very cool, I had no clue using toad more than once in the air doesn't affect your direction!
Although I was wondering a lot about that first use of toad in the air, does it just change all of your momentum to that little bounce? Or maybe all of your vertical momentum? Or is the bounce just added to whatever your original direction was? Because if it cancels momentum then maybe this could be used to save yourself against KOs when DI isn't enough, sort of like what I would do a lot with falco in melee

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 18, 2008

Thanks for your support/suggestions people ^^ and feel free to add it airge. Good job on creating that thread in the first place

@Jiggly: Yes Toad is a very situational kill indeed. In Sudden Death however, he is a lifesaver, especially if it's against someone like DeDeDe who you can't just float away from and wait for Bo-ombs to rain from the sky. I'll be sure to add that in the guide

@Meno: Lulz I am loved

What you said is very true and I use it a lot myself. However (I'll put this in the guide later) you have to be very very very careful indeed when using it at the edge, because Peach sinks like a brick in the air when she's countering with Toad and sometimes you find you've sunk too far and can't recover with your Up + B. Never ever EVER use Toad to counter an edgeguarders attack if you've already used Toad in the air. The Toad Bounce will be gone and Peach will plummet to her doom if the counter and attack connects

@tpyo: Yea it does, it makes you go forward very slightly and can trick the enemy into thinking you're going to continue falling, when in actual fact you've stalled your fall.
The comment about stopping momentum is very interesting indeed but sadly I don't think it works. I've tried but Peach's hitstun lasts far too long for me to use it in time and airdodging to Toad to cancel the hitstun doesn't work either by the looks of things

sorry. I'll try testing a bit more

CedricIzDead · Jul 18, 2008

Good job here Rickerdy-doo-da-day. I'm rather impressed, it is much more full than I thought it would be.

Attacks that reflect Toad's spores:
-Mario's Cape (Side+B)
-Pit's Angel Ring (Side+B, like you said)
-Lucas' F-Smash
-Ness' F-Smash

I have a sneaking suspision that the space animal's reflectors will probably do it too. I would try, but there are people working in the back garden, and keep looking at me funny... :dizzy:

I can't think of any others, and if I remember to test later tonight, I'll post back

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 18, 2008

After much more testing I can confirm this.

Toad can reflect ALL and I repeat ALL of Snake's explosives

TigerWoods · Jul 18, 2008

CedricIzDead said:
Good job here Rickerdy-doo-da-day. I'm rather impressed, it is much more full than I thought it would be.

Attacks that reflect Toad's spores:
-Mario's Cape (Side+B)
-Pit's Angel Ring (Side+B, like you said)
-Lucas' F-Smash
-Ness' F-Smash

I have a sneaking suspision that the space animal's reflectors will probably do it too. I would try, but there are people working in the back garden, and keep looking at me funny...
I can't think of any others, and if I remember to test later tonight, I'll post back

True true. The Space animals can do this as well(I'm part falco mainer). Also in Falcos reflector the reflector is not a projectile, more like a disjointed hitbox. Oh and Zelda's Naryu's love can reflect the spores.

CedricIzDead · Jul 18, 2008

TigerWoods said:
True true. The Space animals can do this as well(I'm part falco mainer). Also in Falcos reflector the reflector is not a projectile, more like a disjointed hitbox. Oh and Zelda's Naryu's love can reflect the spores.

Thanks for the info. I still haven't gone near my Wii yet; those people are still there. And I need to practice for going on holiday, since my family in America are really good at Brawl...

PRINCESS PEACH777 · Jul 18, 2008

Yay good work.

Airgemini · Jul 18, 2008

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
After much more testing I can confirm this.

Toad can reflect ALL and I repeat ALL of Snake's explosives

That is awesome!

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 18, 2008

typo, regarding your comment about whether or not momentum could be stopped with Toad, I've done a lot of testing and I can pretty much be confident in that it's a No. Think of Sonic's Dair or Toon Link's Dair. They do go down but don't work when you've been sent flying

Master Peach · Jul 18, 2008

Nice, this very detailed. You put alot of time into this great job.

This will be very useful.

Airgemini · Jul 18, 2008

I tried the Toad countering the C4s and it is awesome! I love doing it now.

deepseadiva · Jul 18, 2008

CedricIzDead said:
I have a sneaking suspision that the space animal's reflectors will probably do it too. I would try, but there are people working in the back garden, and keep looking at me funny...

CedricIzDead said:
Thanks for the info. I still haven't gone near my Wii yet; those people are still there.

Aww, Cedric you're adorable. :laugh:

Anyways, I forgot to mention earlier that Toad does suffer from stale move negation - justa reminder.

TigerWoods · Jul 18, 2008

Aww thanks for the mention in the guide. For future refrences though, I'd like to be call TigerWoods. That way i actualy sound like a golfer instead of a jungle animal. : :laugh:

:

EdreesesPieces · Jul 18, 2008

"Royal protectoin" lol i love it. BTW you should add that you can counter olimar's pikmin at anytime if they are on you with toad. a very wepaon.

TigerWoods · Jul 18, 2008

I'm not sure if this is really what your guide is about, but in 2vrs2 matches(friendly fire on off course) you can use toad anytime you want as long as your friend hits you at the right time. This is especialy useful with Space Animal Blasters.

Airgemini · Jul 18, 2008

TigerWoods said:
I'm not sure if this is really what your guide is about, but in 2vrs2 matches(friendly fire on off course) you can use toad anytime you want as long as your friend hits you at the right time. This is especialy useful with Space Animal Blasters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7p3h8Sz7g&feature=related (watch at 02:20)
Epic!

tpyo · Jul 18, 2008

Well, that's a shame, I was actually hoping peach could become less lightweight with this, oh well

The team applications are also pretty cool, that was epic airgemini!

JigglyZelda003 · Jul 18, 2008

so epic i wish i could cry lol it was great

TigerWoods · Jul 18, 2008

airgemini said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7p3h8Sz7g&feature=related (watch at 02:20)
Epic!

You know airgemini, I am also a gemini hahaha

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 19, 2008

Nice video...I ought to add something about using Toad in teams

I've added all the stuff you've all suggested to me (with credit of course) and I've updated the Gimping Recoveries List. I'm having a lot of difficulty with this as I'm trying to find a way of stopping recoveries that hurt you when they come into contact with you if you're trying to edgeguard. This is so you won't get knocked off the ledge.

I've tried having all of the Space Animals run into an edgeguarding Peach with their Up + B but it doesn't work very well as they grab onto the ledge and invinciblity frames kick in, making Toad's counter useless. I've tried doing the same with Ness and Lucas' Up + B but the CPU's are crap at using them

TigerWoods · Jul 20, 2008

hahaha you changed it to tiger woods.... you know i was only kidding.... however you can keep that there : :laugh:

:

JigglyZelda003 · Jul 27, 2008

on Fox and Wolf's Shining. idk about Wolf, but one time Fox tried to run in to shinespike me and i used Toad and it blew him away

!?O.o?!

i haven't tested on both or really at all, myself but i think if they don't hold it the spores won't get reflected back at Peach.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Jul 28, 2008

JigglyZelda003 said:
on Fox and Wolf's Shining. idk about Wolf, but one time Fox tried to run in to shinespike me and i used Toad and it blew him away

!?O.o?!

i haven't tested on both or really at all, myself but i think if they don't hold it the spores won't get reflected back at Peach.

Oh did I not put that in? Woops sorry my bad I've been very much neglecting this guide. I'll add it now, cheers

TigerWoods · Jul 31, 2008

Oh heres another move toad wont work on;

Zelda(beggining) and Shieks UpB

They will teleport away before you can toad them. Or if your both grounded and they choose to teleport back you'll be in for a nasty surprise.

AzSvFeZ · Jul 31, 2008

This is truely a sick guide, its improved my peach game, especially since I'm new to peach.

Oh and if you use toad when Falco kicks, or Fox uses(And holds) his sheild, it reflects the spores...

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Aug 1, 2008

AzSvFeZ said:
This is truely a sick guide, its improved my peach game, especially since I'm new to peach.

Oh and if you use toad when Falco kicks, or Fox uses(And holds) his sheild, it reflects the spores...

Nice to know I've helped someone

And I've definatly put in the guide about Space Animals reflectors somewhere. Also for Falco's you have to be the correct distance from him (I think it's in the guide somehwere)

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Nov 22, 2008

Wise from your grwaaave!!!

+50 cool points to anyone who gets where that quote is from

+50 more cool points to anyone who doesn't search where it's from on the Internet

I apologise for bumping this thread (mainly to Edreese cause he's a mod) - if you all feel it is not needed, then please don't post and just let it die. I'm planning of updating this and attempting to spice it up - it looks horribly dull the way it is atm. There are also a few things that need to really be worked on. I'm also putting out a request - if any of you frame data experts out there could supply me with frame data for Toad, I would be very grateful indeed

And with that...let the hopeful Toad carnage commence!

BLEEURGUGLGLE

PrepareYourself · Nov 22, 2008

I think I remember accidentally using Toad instead of Peach Bomber against a Zelda (might've been airgemini). Zelda teleported right next to me and got Toadroll'd :laugh:

Airgemini · Dec 18, 2008

I think you should add these.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178836

SleeplessInKyoto · Dec 19, 2008

Toad is the reason i picked Peach to begin with.

Its biggest power is actually psychological, not damage % wise. You'd be amazed at how much it tames aggressive players.

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