A Counter Analysis /w Video

Kirk · Jul 24, 2008

So lately there was some talk about Ike's Counter and how slow it is or how it is compared to Marth's etc.

So I decided to make a video to demonstrate the timings of Ike and Marth's Counter...including some frame data (not *perfect* frame data, but pretty darn close nonetheless).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnbn1zDWEac <--Here's the video I threw together just now

I hope everyone can learn at least one new thing from this and hopefully it'll answer some questions. Who knows...you may be surprised with what you see...I know I was surprised when I took a closer look :D

Asylum · Jul 24, 2008

Should clear up a lot of the pointless arguments. Thanks for making.

__V · Jul 24, 2008

Good job. Strange how they end at the same time...

noobslayer · Jul 24, 2008

Good break-down. I always thought Ike's counter-able frames laster longer than Marth's. With both having the same total length however, it gives each counter distinct uses - Marth's is more suited to pattern recognition and anticipation. Ike's is limited to punishing slower attacks, but it is safer to use (less vulnerable frames before ending means less of an opportunity to attack).

Nyjin · Jul 25, 2008

I wish they just gave Ike Marth's counter. ;P

That'd totally change up his game...boost it. Sadly, we have the Ike Counter...guess we'll have to get our timing/predictions down to the dot, eh?

KHSteve · Jul 25, 2008

Good video. I didn't really know that they had the same amount of counter frames, only that Marth's was faster to start. So thanks for that.

If only the Ike board had topics more like this.

joetan · Jul 25, 2008

thanks for finding that out. I always have a hard time with timing that counter. Because it has some pre lag, I only really find it usefull for really predictable attacks.

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 25, 2008

I don't think Marth mains use there counter a lot so idk why you would want his.

Rykoshet · Jul 26, 2008

Marth mains dont use his counter much because a good 90% of his moveset can beat said incoming move to the punch. I agree that ike's counter could have stood to be like marth's since there are plenty of situations where you cant get a move out in time. Granted you could just shield, and you should be.

0RLY · Jul 26, 2008

Average smash-playing human reaction time is about 6-8 frames.... 10 frames just doesn't cut it for me.

VersatileBJN · Jul 26, 2008

^^ plucked out of the air much?

or is this osmething that is known. thanks

Duker · Jul 26, 2008

Marth's counter=Reaction
Ike's counter=Prediction

Any objections?

Deleted member · Jul 26, 2008

too bad smash is based on reaction.

marth's is better =/

vegeta9000 · Jul 26, 2008

Duker said:
Marth's counter=Reaction
Ike's counter=Prediction

Any objections?

Marths counter = so fast you can predict your opponents moves and counter before it happens, and your enemy attacks before he can really notice a counter just happened before his attack

Ikes counter = so slow that if you predict your enemies action and counter it, he can see the counter happen and 10 frames is so slow in every mid level skill environment your opponent will simply not use the attack

metroid1117 · Jul 26, 2008

Excellent work, Kirk; I've always wondered when Ike will get some credible frame data. Thanks for making the video; it was very informative.

A Counter Analysis /w Video

Kirk

Smash Champion

Asylum

Smash Journeyman

__V

Smash Journeyman

noobslayer

Smash Apprentice

Nyjin

Smash Ace

KHSteve

Smash Rookie

joetan

Smash Rookie

Arturito_Burrito

Smash Master

Rykoshet

Smash Champion

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties

VersatileBJN

Smash Ace

Duker

Smash Journeyman

Deleted member

Guest

vegeta9000

Smash Cadet

metroid1117

Smash Master

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