Guide to the Knee of Justice (I can has sticky?) New Combo!

Until I think of a cooler name, this is the

Guide to the Knee of Justice



Contents
I. What is the Knee of Justice?
II. Properties
a. Specs.
b. Sweet spotting
c. Auto canceling
d. Tripping
e. Other good things to know
III. Percents
a. Killing with the knee alone
b. Percents for tripping
c. Killing with Dair-->Knee Combo
IV. Credits
V. History


What is the Knee of Justice

The Knee of Justice is Captain Falcon's Forward air attack (Fair). In Melee, it was feared by all, even by those who could wield it. Sadly, the move is mocked by the community because it is harder to sweet spot and Falcon himself has fallen to the very bottom of the pack. For this reason, I am going to do my bes to guide veteran and newbie alike in bringing the knee back to its rightful position as the most powerful aerial killer in the game (that isn't a spike.)

II. Properties

Specs of the Knee of Justice

Damage: Sweetspotted = 16 - 19%; Flubbed = 3 - 5%
Knockback: Sweetspotted = Medium - High; Flubbed = Low
Duration: About 1 second

Sweet spotting

The reason the knee ought to be feared. As shown in the specs section, the sweet spotting the knee is much more effective than a flubbed one. However, one of the reasons we Falcon mainers have been hurt so hard is because it is harder to sweet spot than in Melee.

There isn't really a "spot" that you have to hit with. Rather, it's all about timing. To sweet spot, you must hit in the first few frames of the attack. Failing to do so will likely end you up getting smashed across the stage, so attempt with caution.

Video Tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHMKPOslGUQ

Auto canceling

Auto canceling (ACing) is the act of fully eliminating the landing lag of an aerial. Not all moves can AC, so we should be glad that the knee can. ACing can allow you to follow up on a knee or any other aerial you land much more quickly than without it. To AC, all you have to do is

1. Short Hop (SH)
2. Immediately perform the aerial of choice.

If done correctly, Falcon will land on his feet. ACing is going to be very important once we reach the Dair-->Knee combo section, so I urge that you practice this technique a lot.

Tripping

A flubbed knee isn't always a bad thing. At lower percents it can cause tripping. This also appears to be about timing, as I found that you are more likely to cause tripping near the end of the attack. I will go into more detail on this in the Percents for Tripping section.

Other Useful Things to Know

The Knee (FAir) -- Average Killing Percent: 72.9
++ Can work wonders on an opponent on a platform above you
++ If they airdodge an Uair, you can mindgame into this
++ If used offstage, most safely used if done right after your second jump
++ Can surprise ledgehopping opponents for a 80+% kill move
++ Can be flubbed into Falcon Dive
++ Autocancelled version can sweetspot taller opponents
++ Ledgehopping this to hit people next to the ledge sweetspots easily (but beware of shieldgrab)
++ Good shield pushback, but you're usually moving forward so you get punished anyways
++ Can be used for recovery
- Should not be used against grounded opponents unless you know you will hit them (bad landing lag)
- Easily predictable, easy to shieldgrab, hard to hit against short/moving opponents; don't spam it, because it has awful landing lag

NEW COMBO! Flubbed knee trip--> Up-b
ANOTHER NEW COMBO! Ledge Lift (Raptor Boost)-->Knee (Only on some chars)

noobslayer said:

I made a topic about this a while ago;

Falcon's dash attack knockback has the perfect trajectory to setup for either an immediate SH Knee sweetspot or FH Knee sweetspot on nearly all charcters for a large range of percents. It sounds like mundane advice, but it works.

Click to expand...

Semagdnim

legion598 said:

u should put dash forwards> short hop backwards> falcons tiny backflip as a set up this puts the knee in just the right place for any opponent and is done out of a dash u can do it as a mind game too oh and if u hit forward before u land u can hit the ground running if u didnt throw the knee. And u could make a note that the sweet spot knee also has lower priority then u think and that u probly shouldnt try to beat out an attack with it

Click to expand...

misterbee180 said:

Because I love the falcon group so much I will let you all in on a way to increase the chance of connecting w/ the knee of justice.

Dont be a f-in *****. By which I mean, dont play the game defensively, waiting and hoping to capatilize on an opponents mistake. Use the knee before your opponent does anything. If your opponent is on the ledge jump up and use a knee, expecting them to attack up into it. If you are running towards them after hitting them in the air jump and assume they're going to jump away, using the knee above them. It's not about predicting a move, but more so about knowing that people fear being attacked. Dont expect your opponent to let you knee them. Short hop your knees and even weak knees set up for stronger knees.

Message: DONT BE A F-IN *****!

* A public message brought to you by the greatest falcon in america Misterbee180 *

Click to expand...

Percents

Percents for Killing

The percents listed here are the percentages for killing all characters from the center of Battlefield without DI

Mario: 74
DK: 82
Link: 77
Samus: 80
Zamus: 66
Kirby: 66
Fox: 64
Pikachu: 66
Marth: 70
Mr.G&W: 64
Luigi: 75
Diddy: 72
Zelda: 68
Shiek: 67
Pit: 73
MK: 64
Falco: 67
Squirtle: 63
Ivy: 76
Char: 79
Ike: 77
Snake: 81
Peach: 72
Yoshi: 79
Ganon: 79
ICs: 72
DDD: 81
Wolf: 75
Lucario: 77
Ness: 73
Sonic: 73
Bowser: 84
Wario: 78
Tlink: 73
ROB: 78
Olimar: 71
C. Fal: 77
Jiggs: 61
Lucas 72

Percents for Tripping

As mentioned earlier, a flubbed knee can cause tripping, which can be a detriment to your opponents plans. The knee itself comes in 3 phases:

1. The sweet spot phase
2. Immediately after the sweet spot phase, the knee produces low knockback and causes 6%.
3. Does 3% and causes very low knockback, but can cause tripping near the end.

Here, I've organized the list so each character falls into a percent range where they can trip. The percent they are under is the maximum percent they will trip at.

38%

Bowser

37%

Wario
Yoshi
DK
DDD
Snake

36%

Link
Ganon
Samus
Char

35%

ROB
C. Fal
Wolf
Ike

34%

Mario
Luigi
Ivy
Lucario

33%

Diddy
Zelda
Tlink
ICs
Pit
Lucas
Ness
Sonic

32%

Peach
Shiek
Marth

31%

Zamus
Olimar
Fox
Falco

30%

Kirby
MK
Pikachu
Squirtle
Mr.G&W

28%

Jiggs

Credits

Reaver: For providing the information on the Knee's Damage and knockback
BananaTrooper: For the info on ACing
Wogrim, Noodlehead, and Radiation: For the Other Useful Things section
Doggalina and all SHOW ME YA DATA contributors: For compiling the killing %s for the knee.
PEEF: For the sweet spot video.
My friend: For finding the flubbed knee-->Up-b combo (albeit on accident)
DoB04: For Ledge Lift-->Knee
Lionman: For the lovely pics.
noobslayer: For Dash attack-->Knee
legion598: Semagdnim stuff
misterbee180: Semagdnim stuff

History

*7-26-08* A thread is born. Added killing and tripping %s
*7-27-08* Added video tutorial, more useful stuff.
*7-30-08* Added new combo
*7-31-08* Added another new combo, picture.
*8-7-08* Added noobslayer comment
*8-10-08* Added more stuff
*8-26-08* Added Semagdnim section.

Input (and a sticky) is appreciated.

A couple days ago I had someone airdodge right into a sweetspotted Knee (they were obviously trying to dodge UAir). Seems like it might be a good way to mindgame it.

(only works sometimes)if both of y'all are in the air and you hit a flubbed knee then you can connect the falcon dive with it.try it

Good guide.

But you arent going to include my KoJ video Disection to this guide? You can certainly add it to help explain.

Also, the sweetspot hitbox is open for 5 frames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHMKPOslGUQ

Credit me as PEEF. Thanks.

Bump for new info.

i love this combo,people dont seem to expect it.so most of the time it works well.

Noodlehead said:

i love this combo,people dont seem to expect it.so most of the time it works well.

Click to expand...

most people don't expect falcon period. lol

Whoa...Whoa guys.....correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe nessbounder (i think it was him?) found this "new combo" out some time ago.

It's called the "YES! combo".
duh.

not a new combo?
haha...still, very nice thread and keep it going

Iwan said:

Whoa...Whoa guys.....correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe nessbounder (i think it was him?) found this "new combo" out some time ago.

It's called the "YES! combo".
duh.

not a new combo?
haha...still, very nice thread and keep it going

Click to expand...

Never heard of that. Either way, it's still pretty epic.

The YES! combo is flubbed knee trip to Falcon Dive, which requires your opponent to be on the ground, not in the air.

well i guess you now have 2 different combos for your guide.1 in air and 1 on floor

you might wanna add the ledge lift - knee, it works on heavy characters such as dk around 50% damage, probably more or less would also work, idk yet.... it registered as 2 consecutive hits on training... so i am guessing it works.

DoB04 said:

you might wanna add the ledge lift - knee, it works on heavy characters such as dk around 50% damage, probably more or less would also work, idk yet.... it registered as 2 consecutive hits on training... so i am guessing it works.

Click to expand...

Ledge Attack-->Knee? Sounds nifty.

Some pics about knee of justice



Donkey dead instantly




Top tier cant save you for this, mother******


Knee is hard to hit but you can improve your aim with training

Red Alloy said:

Ledge Attack-->Knee? Sounds nifty.

Click to expand...

No, ledge lift is grounded raptor boost at someone holding the ledge, which doesn't send them as high because they start lower. There's a thread describing it somewhere, and it doesn't work on all characters.

yes, u finally made the thread
a good way 2 use ur knee is a legde drop-jump-knee thing(i think its called a ledge hopped knee), i do it at 5:00
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=xiK8ELL2Cbs&fmt=18
n also if u fail da knee off stage just jump n do another one (sounds stupid but i do it alot in my vid, look at 2:07-2:10 4 ex)

Sticky fingers.

Anybody got anything they want to add?

I made a topic about this a while ago;

Falcon's dash attack knockback has the perfect trajectory to setup for either an immediate SH Knee sweetspot or FH Knee sweetspot on nearly all charcters for a large range of percents. It sounds like mundane advice, but it works.

i dont know if this is helpful but you can also use the knee to recover

Noodlehead said:

i dont know if this is helpful but you can also use the knee to recover

Click to expand...

Wha?

Red Alloy said:

Wha?

Spoiler

10Whas

Click to expand...

he means the knee is helpful 4 recovery because it propels u slightly forward wen u use it

but i think this has been discovered already, i use this tech all the time

yeah its old,but wasnt mentioned in the thread

Didn't know it propelled you forward. Just figured that would be DI, but I guess not.

I'll add that later.

u know y u dont hit him with ur knee 4 sweet spot? its because really quickly he super shocks them with his super nipples! lololol

nice guide!

i like falcon cause hes low tier truthfully

i think captain falcon is top tier just all the captain falcon players dont want any1 else to kno

does sliq's murder fist recovery thing work with falcon? (I guess it would be called falcon punch recovery?)

chewyy said:

does sliq's murder fist recovery thing work with falcon? (I guess it would be called falcon punch recovery?)

Click to expand...

Is that a B-reverse 180 paunch? If so, I don't see why not.

Also, thanks for the bump, even though that has nothing to do with the knee.

yeah, the knee of justice deserves to be ontop.

(I asked to question somewhere else too, I think the testing thing thread, so if anyone wants to discuss it, you could do it there)

Thanks man, my friends will flip out everytime i use Falcon now!

u should put dash forwards> short hop backwards> falcons tiny backflip as a set up this puts the knee in just the right place for any opponent and is done out of a dash u can do it as a mind game too oh and if u hit forward before u land u can hit the ground running if u didnt throw the knee. And u could make a note that the sweet spot knee also has lower priority then u think and that u probly shouldnt try to beat out an attack with it



as for the tripping how likely would u say the trip is to happen

you might wanna add auto-canceled dair -> sweet spotted knee in there, since its one of the very few legit falcon combos
(sorry if it's there and i didnt see it, i didnt read it all =X)

Because I love the falcon group so much I will let you all in on a way to increase the chance of connecting w/ the knee of justice.

Dont be a f-in *****. By which I mean, dont play the game defensively, waiting and hoping to capatilize on an opponents mistake. Use the knee before your opponent does anything. If your opponent is on the ledge jump up and use a knee, expecting them to attack up into it. If you are running towards them after hitting them in the air jump and assume they're going to jump away, using the knee above them. It's not about predicting a move, but more so about knowing that people fear being attacked. Dont expect your opponent to let you knee them. Short hop your knees and even weak knees set up for stronger knees.

Message: DONT BE A F-IN *****!

* A public message brought to you by the greatest falcon in america Misterbee180 *

legion598 said:

u should put dash forwards> short hop backwards> falcons tiny backflip as a set up this puts the knee in just the right place for any opponent and is done out of a dash u can do it as a mind game too oh and if u hit forward before u land u can hit the ground running if u didnt throw the knee. And u could make a note that the sweet spot knee also has lower priority then u think and that u probly shouldnt try to beat out an attack with it



as for the tripping how likely would u say the trip is to happen

Click to expand...

I'll add that stuff. As for tripping, I think if you land it right, you can get it all the time, but I'm not sure on that

You need to change something. A non-sweetspotted knee can do three to SIX damage. Not 3-5%. It's 3-6%. I know it's not that important but we need to at least be accurate.

I don't know if anyone else does this, but when the opponent is recovering, they'll often go for the edge. This means they'll usually be out and down from the edge. If you just run off the edge (no jump) and knee, it'll often kill, and (at LEAST) gimp. Once you learn to use it more, the sweetspot timing makes this almost a sure kill. Be careful, though. If this misses, they have a good opportunity to jump off your head.

LOL OMG I didn't know that!!!! NOT. LOL... na man. Atleast you are trying to give some useful information. We all gots to work together to figure out ways for it to work.

When an opponent is on the ledge you can make them want to attack w/ a by running to the ledge and then short hopping. Hop again when you almost hit the ground and most of the time the opponant will try and hit you. Missing and having lag time you ahve a chance to land w/ a knee. Works well against rob.

i love the knee... nuff said.

THe only problem with falcon now is considering the knee is based on timing, not positioning, plus the knee is slower than it is in melee, it's a bit harder to pull out :[

As strange as it sounds, I almost never use the knee in brawl as it tends to be punished but from my experience landing the knee on an airborn, specifically an offensive opponent is to wait for their attack to miss and then close the gap with your second jump and knee them immediately

granted a character with a fast F-air (rob, MK, sometimes marth) you won't get a good effect but it gets me results.

Fair is spammable to a degree. But I wouldn't waste my time over and over trying to land a good one. A true sweetspotted knee will come when the time is right.

When you're under an opponent whose on a platform, always use this. Also, when you use it, if anyone else touches you when you sweetspot someone else, they get a rising knee to the face as well. And if you don't sweetspot the Knee of Justice, go for a quick U-Air or DI'd N-Air. That way, not all is lost.

Sorry if this is basic knowledge, though. I'll try and contribute stuff that hasn't been stated here through PE.