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Snake Matchup(Updated 04/05/09)

gallax

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
5,641
Location
Orlando(UCF), Fl
Snake



General Discussion

This is pika's most interesting matchup imo. It is so hotly debated whether pika has the advantage people have just grown sick and said even matchup. This matchup is like david and goliath. Pika has everything any character needs to win, but snake has the same.

Pika's Advantages

1.) Speed
2.) Ability to combo
3.) CG
4.) Can gimp snakes recovery
5.) Not easily gimped
6.) Spammable projectile
7.) Thunder(hits way above pika...willbe talked about later)

Pika's Disadvantages

1.) No ridiculous utilt range/priority
2.) Less priority
3.) Less range on tilts
4.) Kill/percentage ratio(snake needs more to die obviously)

Strategy for Winning

General

This is a most intersting matchup. Hotly debated but never ended. What makes this matchup so interesting is that both characters have the advantages to win this matchup. Snake is the explosive master and pikachu is so finess. This matchup will come down to who knows it the best.

Grenades

The first and most foremost thing that needs to be addressed with snake is his ability to use his grenades. It only takes 1 frame to pull out a grenade. 1 frame. This means that any chaingrab that you may attempt, or anything that you attempt, can be thrawrted if not executed properly. Now when a snake pulls a nade it will take 3 seconds to explode. A nade will explode once its timer is reached, if you use an elemental attack on it, or if you use your thunder/tolt on it. You will hear a tink when he pulls it out too. Listen for it.

The most stupid thing about nades is that it affects the higher slots first and lowest slots last. If snake grabs you and a nade is right below you and explodes, it will damage the person whose controller is plugged into the port nearest port 1. This means you fight for port 4 cuz it is the best port.

Now what to watch out for with grenades and all the info you will ever need to know about them. Be sure that there is quite a bit. Snake, first off, has three options with nades. He can either hold the nade(not letting go of B), release the b button and let go of the nade, shield and drop the nade. If snake holds the nade do not hit him. You will detonate the nade and you will both be sent flying into the air and snake will more than likely uair you to your death. If they hold onto it watch out for them walking slowly towards you then when the nade is about to explode they will shield. So you can shield yourself. My recommendation is simple and effective. Tjolt them. They are forced to shield and drop the nade. If they do release their nade they can just press B and let go, which will send the nade in front of the snake and set it onto the ground. The snake can also pull back on the joystick and the nade will be thrown into the air, land on the ground, and explode approximately 3 seconds later., near snake. Most snakes will roll back when they do this.

Now when snakes drop the nade using their shield. This is the most common form of nade users. Shield>drop>many things. They can hold onto it, throw it down/up/forward/way forward..etc. Snakes also have the choice of leaving on the ground. You will see most, if not all of the nade uses. The 5 second rule still applies. Some things you must learn to avoid are as follow. Nade>shield>grab nade>hit down on cstick. This effectively throws the nade on the ground and bounces it back into the air. The nade will explode right before it hits the ground or at around snakes head depending on how hard the player button mashed. So in other words...stay away when this happens. The snake will tend to roll away when this happens and pull out another nade. More than likely the snake will then go through the same series of events, except this time they will hold the nade and throw it at you right before it explodes so when it gets near you the timer will go off and it will explode on you.

There is no way of going through all the possible ways of nade uses. He can pick them up while dash attacking over them, throw them while he is airiel, etc... You have to learn how to avoid them. Learn how to powershield them. If he is in the air and you hear a tink, he has pulled a nade and do not attack him cuz you will make the nade explode and then both of you will be sent airiel again. Get the timing down for the nades. Play with him and only use his nades to learn the timing. I dont care how you do it. Just do it if you really want to win.

Something very important that I forgot to write about is what snake can do when holding a grenade. He can GRAB YOU!!!!!!!! He is not vulnerable when holding a nade. He can hold down b when he pulls the nade, walk towards you and then grab you. If he has the lower port he will hold his grab and let the nade explode while he is holding you. He could also dthrow you are uthrow you while it explodes.

Also, something else that I didn't write about is that when he shield drops a nade and then re-grabs the nade he can pull out another nade. This means that sometimes you can get hit by 2 exploding grenades, which sucks. You need to stay away from snake when he is cooking a nade(holding onto it). Getting close and trying to attack or grab him can lead to you running into his shield and one or two exploding nades. The only time you should grab is when you have a lower port.

A common theme with 2 nades is when you are clinging onto the edgeand the snake walks towards you with a nade in his hand. He can hit b and drop 2 nades and you can run into them. Just keep regrabbing the ledge until the nades are gone.

C4

Now that the nades are done, lets talk about his c4. He can do many things with it. Basically if you see him plant it, dont run over it or else he will detonate it and kill you. I've died around 84% before from the c4 going off on levels with low cielings. Basically you have to listen for the sound that snake makes when he plants a c4. I cannot describe it, so you have to go listen to it for yourself. But everytime you hear it look vertically down and thats where it will land. Do not pay attention to snake cuz you want to know where it is. Snake can also detonate it in the air too. If you have sent him upwards in the air he can drop a c4 and detonate it on top of you if you arent paying attention. As a snake user I plant most of my c4's when I am jumping. Snakes will use misdirection and distraction to plant a c4 and therefore get a free 15% damage on you. The c4 can also be planted on you directly. If you get stickied by a c4 just run at snake and make the thing plant on him. C4 will jump from player to player when stickied. If you know you are gonna get detonated on, just shield or spotdodge the explosion and it will miss you.

Another reason you want to pay attention to the c4 is that it can, and will detonate without being detonated by snake, after a certain time being planted. Be aware cuz the occasional random explosion really does suck hardcore.

Tilts

Well well well. What to talk about next? Lets talk about what makes snake so awesome...his tilts. Now I am gonna include snakes jab combo in this section cuz it is just as important as the tilts if snake is going to use his tilts effectively. The first thing I will say is that his tilts will degenerate in power after each use. This is good for us. But bad in the sense that he has 3 different tilits to use lol. Lets talk about the ftilt first. Its a two hit combo and can do over 23% damage fresh. It startup time is next to nothing and lag time is just as snalle. The same goes for his utilt. The dtilt has a slightly higher startup time, but only a few frame difference. The tilts are snakes bread and butter. Without them he isnt snake. Be aware that the ftilt can trip you too so getting out of it can be impossible sometimes.

Now you should know that his utlit has ridiculously long range. So always watch out for it when you are at higher percentages. It has the best speed/kill ratio in the game. Just try to stay behind him or tjolt him when the snake is trying to utilt you for the kill. His dtilt is used more for damage racking although it is rarely used. If his tilts are degenerating you may see the dtilt being implemented more. A combo to watch out for and not get baited into is nade>drop>roll back>crouch>dtilt when you roll towards him cuz you do not want to get hit by the nade.

The Jab

Lets talk about the jab next since this is what makes some snakes gods at smash. The jab cancels the tjolt. The jab comboes into tilits. The jab can kill. Basically it is easy to understand that holding down A will send a million jabs a minute from snake and they will cancel your tjolt. But you will get a small knockback so still use the tjolt cuz you can push them off the edge and then you get into edgeguarding. The jab, when it connects can either be used for a 3 hit combo, which will end in a kick and send you flying back, or they can stop the jab and turn it into a combo where they use ftilt or utlit to kill you. So it goes jab(one punch)>ftilt or jab>utlit or jab>first knee of ftilt>then utilt. Or another combo jab>dtilt>utilt. The dtilt sends you up a bit and bam, there is your utilt.

Another important aspect with the jab is that it can lead into a grab from snake. When they hit you with the first jab then can immediately grab you. And from there they can tech-chase grab you. So you need to condition your reactions to the jab and hold down A. Holding down A may allow you to interrupt their jab combo's.

How to Counter the Tilts as Pika

So what to do against these tilts. You know all about them, lets talk about what to do about them. The most annoying thing a pikachu can do to avoid these is just plain aviod them all together and camp the entire match. But if you find a snake who is a good camper too or knows how to get in close you must know what to do. This is where spotdodging comes in. You can spotdodge all of his tilts and just drive snakes crazy. Its not hard too to know when a snake will use his tilts. SEriously, just dodge them and then go into an offensive. Be patient when close cuz if you get impatient and attack with a move that has lag you get punished by a tilt. You can also roll behind the snake when the are using their tilts. Probably the best place to be in this scenario. These are the only way around his tilits though. Remember this is just a guide so the best I can do is inform you of their ability and tell you what is effective. Sadly , in this case, there is only so much you can do.

The Mortar Slide

The next thing that is up for discussion is snakes mortar slide. Some snakes know how to use this and others don't. Some use extensively, others do not. Whatever the case is let me point out that what I am going to cover about the mortar slide is independent on the amount of times the MS is used.

The mortar slide is your basic hyphen smash for snake. But, since is can shoot out a mortar and depending on how your opponent uses the MS, it can slide across the stage due to snakes momentum. The snake can choose to charge up the MS and send the mortar way into the air. It allows him to get from one side to the other in no time. It gives him an offinsive option if you are in the air and he wants to hit you.

So what to watch out for and what to do in response. If a snake is about 1.5 snakes away(if you crouch with snake, 1 crouched snake =1 snake) then the MS is more than likely going to be used is you are in any way above him or coming to the stage. But, this isnt the only time he will use it. You see when the snake uses the MS he is using it for 1 of 4 reasons. (1.) To escape. (2.) He wants to hit you with the martar in the air. (3.) He wants to get closer and keep pressure on you. (4.) He is setting up a trap. The first three are self explanitory. As pikachu, you want to watch out for the MS as an offensive attack when you are SH tjolting. If the snake times it right then he can powershield and hit you with a well timed MS. But this is very hard to do as snake. The msot troublesome thing you have to watch for the the 4th option. This is how it happens. The snake will mortar slide next to you, wait about half a second, then begin to use his tilts or jab combo. Why is this so frustrating and effective you ask? Well its because if you grab snake or attack him the mortar will come down and hit you. If you do not attack then you can shield. If you shield you will be grabbed and still get hit with the mortar. If you have just performed an attack and have lag, the snake will MS next to you, ftilt you once, you will trip 2/3rds of the time, wait to hit you with the second part of the ftilt, and hit you you with it as the mortar hits you.

Now snakes can also charge the MS and shoot the mortar way into the air. The thing with this is that you need to have your timing down and know where it is. If you don't then you will get hit by it. The morar does not degenerate. It is always painful. There are different scenarios when he will use it. But the most often time is when you are recovering. He will MS to the edge>charge>shoot it up and wait to see what to do next. If you are close he will begin a series of edgeguarding techs. If you arrent close, he will charge up another MS. As pika, we don't worry about his as much cuz our recovery is amazing. We have to worry about getting off the ledge too early and gettnig hit by a falling mortar. Just ledgehog till it comes back down.

Now, countering the MS. There are 2 things you can to. Space the MS properly, or tjolt the s**t out of him. The MS can only go so far and when he gets up after it he expects you to be close or affected in some way by the mortar. Move back or qac away. If you fall back and get out of his ftilt range then the MS was just rendered ineffective. yay. You can also tjolt him. But, when tjolting, do not get into a rythm. DO NOT!!!!!! Snake players have the best timing than any other character, usually. Freak him out sometimes by QAC>sh tjolt>qac away>sh tjolt>sh tjolt>FH dj(double jump) tjolt>qac away>tjolt>qac 2 horizontal<tjolt...etc. Can you get the idea? Mix it up.

Now the idea came up of skullbashing(SB) snake while he is mortar sliding. Terrible idea. Do not do it. You SB has horrible startup lag. Its too hard to time. Even if you do pull it off, the mortar will hit you. There is no reason to SB here. Ever. Trust me.

Basic Strategies

Ok. Now lets talk about pikachu and what to do as pikachu to win this fight. You can start by tjolting. Some snakes cannot play against a tjolting spammer. If you find yourself in a fight with one then you have pretty much won the fight since you can tjolt him to a high percentage and destroy him with strategy you will read below.

If you find yourself in a fight with a snake who knows about jab canceling the tjolt and powershields excellently, well now you have to change up strategy a bit. The best thing pikas have against snake if grabbing. The more you grab snake the better chance you will have of winning. If you grab him before...we will say 55%...then fthrow him across the board and CG him. Use and abuse your CG. Free damage. If he is above then dthrow him into some utilts or usmashes or w/e. Combo his a*s. The more you can grab, the more you can get comboes in on him.

Being Aggressive

Now, when being aggressive against snake. The thing is that you want to keep you attacks airiel. Our tilts are at best useless against snake except when he has landing lag from one of his airiels or we have just spotdodged his entire ftilt. The nair/dair/uair are awesome. The fair is usually our best approach. Almost no lag and great combo strater. But, snakes do not run and love to shield into tilts. Now as a pika user you ARENT GOING TO APPROACH A SNAKE WITH A FAIR CUZ HE WILL SHIELD YOU AND HIT YOU WITH HIS TILTS!!!!! You will use the fair as a shield poker(if you will) and for spacing. This means jump<fair<land out of snakes range. You can also use it when he is in the air.

Some great things to do is land behind snake and uair him into some comboes too. Watch vids. I cannot explain how to approach fully.

Grabbing and Being Grabbed


The best part of playing pika against snake is being able to grab. Why is this? It's because there is a 0-100% grab combo on snake. Look in the OP of the matchup thread for references on how to do this. You can also fthrow cg him to about 60%. The best thing to do, when you do grab him, is to fthrow him to the ledge and then start your dthrow cg so that any nades that he pulls out will fall off the stage.

Learning how to grab snake players is such a huge part of this matchup. It is free damage and it scares them away from you when they are at lower percents. There aren't many chars that can do this.

As for snakes grabbing pika, they can either throw you away or dthrow you and take it from there. If they throw you away then there is nothing you can do except recover. But if they dthrow you(lay you on the ground) well then you have a whole bunch of problems that you are going to have to deal with.

Before you learn what to do when dealing with his dthrow, you have to learn what he can do. If he lays you down and you decide not to move he can ftilt/utilt/jab/ **place a c4 on you** . If you roll behind him he can turn around and ftilt/utilt you. If you roll away in front of him he can tech-chase and re-grab you. He can also re-grab you when you roll behind him. If you attack from resting position he will shield and then tilt/grab/c4 you.

Now it may sound like he wins when he lays you on the ground...and he does. But, your opponent will still have to guess what you are going to do. Now almost all, if not all, snakes will put their shield up when they lay you on the ground. This means do not hit your attack button as soon as he lays on the ground. The only time you should attack directly from being laid down is when you do not do anything and wait for the snake to put their shield down. This is a mindgame in which you can learn how to play. The difficult thing is that snake can re-grab or tilt pretty darn fast so you will have to guess yourself.

Now when I play snakes I start off by rolling behind them the first time I am laid down on the ground. This shows me what kind of snake they like to play. If they tilt me immediately it means they probably are not that great at tech-chasing the grab or they prefer not to do it. So next time, if I get grabbed, I roll away from my opponent. They are not going to be able to tilt me again since now I know that they like to tilt when an opponent rolls behind them. From there on I NEVER ROLL BEHIND. Also, from there I watch to see if they try to re-grab me or if they mortar slide or just dash attack me or do nothing at all. I am trying to learn their style since not all snakes play the same. Learning what the snake player likes to do is crucial. If they do not like to re-grab then roll away from them so they cannot tilt you. But, if they do like to re-grab you, then you are going to have to learn to being unpredictable.

Being unpredictable is easier than it sounds. Lets go through an example. Lets say you are near a ledge and snake grabs you. Now, the snake is expecting you to roll away from the ledge. Roll towards it. He will be like wtf??? This is the same for platforms. Although plats are hard to not get tilted on. When you know the snake wants to re-grab you and you are wondering where to roll ALWAYS ROLL THE OPPOSITE WAY YOU ARE THINKING. What other way to be un-predictable than to go against what you want to do? lol.

The key lesson is to un-predictable out of the dthrow.


A note that you may want to try and remember is that snake's pivot grab has awesome range compared to you. When snake try to re-grab you when you roll behind them they will most likely either just shield>turn around>grab or run>pivot grab. But the pivot grabhas more uses in grabbing. Be sure to not get baited into running after a snake who seemingly is turned around and/or running away and then get surprised by a pivot grab. But do not get frustrated when grabbed. Some snake players are mad crazy with their grab game.


Edgeguarding

As for edgeguarding. Pika has a lot better time edgeguarding against snake than other characters. This is one of our advantages that we can take advantage of. Since thunder starts so far above our heads it makes it harder for snake to get back onto the stage with his recovery. A well placed nair/dair can knock a snake off his cypher. If you grab a snake when he is recovering with his cypher you have just ended his life. Grab him and do not press anything. He will auto jump off and will not be able to do anything and fall to his death. Also, if you headbut his cypher he will fall to his death too. When he is hangin off the ledge keep pressure of him by tjolting and he will be forced to either ledge stall or get back onto the stage via cypher or jumping up. If he ledge stalls you can always grab the ledge before him and make him use his cypher. From there you can ledge jump>thunder and hit him. Most snakes will use their airdodge right before they land on the stage though toi dodge any thunder or attack. The video posted shows this quite well and how to counter it.

If the snake decides to use his cypher once you've grabbed the ledge drop down to him and knock him off again with a nair. Keep pressure on him when he's off the edge. Don't forget that the bair is also very effective to use off the edge. If the snake decides to hit the jump button though from the edge well you have a different scenario. He will come up and off the edge and more than likely use his nair. If he doesn't use his nair he will pull a nade out. Another wards, wait till he lands then start attacking him. You have time to attack. Be patient.

When snakes try to edgeguard they will use their mortars and nades. The will drop a nade near the edge>roll back>w/e. As pika, we have one of the best ledge stalling abilities in the game. Plus, we have the qac. There is no reason why we should get wrecked off the edge. Ledge stall. Wait till the mortars hit and the nades explode and use your qac to get away. If the snake is near the edge then use your uair to gets some hits in.

Killing

Now for the last part!!!!!! Killing and being killed. Snakes best kill moves are his utilt, nair, bair, fsmash, and his c4. More than likerly you will die from his utilt. It has the best speed to kill ratio in the game and kills pika at around 84% fresh and around 105% degenerated. The nair is easy to see but sometimes hard to avoid. The bair has little startup time and like the rest of his airiels, it auto-cancels. His fsmash has horrible startup time and a lot of lag. But it kills at like 60% uncharged. I myself have a setup when edgeguarding that allows me to use fsmashes with snakes and get some easy kills. So it is possible to get hit by it. The c4... well as long as you are paying attention you shouldn't get hit by it. If you get sticked try and resticky it to snake or shield it.

As for killing snake. Thunder and fsmash are your best options. Time your thunders off the edge and do not use your fsmash until you want to kill him. Utilt is your backup if your moves are degerating. Same goes for usmash. Don't be afraid to use your usmash though in the match. This will not be your best killing option so use it whenever you want to.

Last but not least...be smart. Be defensive. Be patient. Do this and you will win.

Helpful Video's

Esam vs. Siebrik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GyTN8EnICA

Overall Matchup

Pika: Snake
53:47
 

gallax

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
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Location
Orlando(UCF), Fl
hmm, compared to pika, his airgame is worse. although his nair is a great kill move if you land the fourth hit. they all autcancel and have great range and priority. they are just plain different here.

the most obvious pika advantage is the ability to chaingrab.
 

Piman34

Smash Lord
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Nov 15, 2006
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I think the fact that a common way to get out of snake's cypher is to air dodge, and this can be punished as well as the cypher itself...like kyari said elsewhere, dair knocks him out of it, and yes our air game gives us an advantage. CG is helpful, but the stage ends eventually lol, so its good to have other options of racking up the damage...snake is a heavy character, which makes him a prime target for juggling...one combo i think is just plain funny to use (though while escapeable, usually it works once or twice) is to up throw into a full hopped uair, then skull bash to whatever side they fall to, so funny...remember if you grab snake when he's in his cypher and let him wriggle out he cannot do it again, so keep this in mind near the edge. One thing to watch out for is the c4, since it blends in and can kill us at low percentages since we are light. furthermore, his grenades usually go over our heads, especially if pika crouches, and its chucked at you. his dash attack and snake dash cover alot of ground, and quickly, so standing back and spamming just isn't viable, so use the jolts to approach and put a damper in their streak.
 

Peregrinus Falconidae

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 14, 2008
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338
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Eastern Australia
As Piman said, we can easily knock him out of cypher with attacks such as Dair. We can also use thunder on him as he cyphers if we don't want to use dair or grab him and let him go, as Piman also said. Thunder jolts should be used offensively instead of defensively as while approaching can cause a snake to jump into the air where we are better, or shield, which CAN give us a grab sometimes. Thunder jolts can be used on c4s if I remember correctly, and if he comes for you roll BEHIND him every once in a while away from that crazy ftilt. I can't remember anything else now, I will add more later.
 

Default_951

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
89
Location
South UK
Air game isn't really an issue for us here, as galax1117 said nairs the only real one to worry about. Ground game however comes down to snakes broken tilts, dashs, jab and grab. t-jolt approach and grab strings seem to work well for us though as it can force snake into the air and he seems to have trouble getting consecutive moves in =/
 

PkTrainerCris

Smash Ace
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May 14, 2008
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colombia
Quick attack cancel is very usefull against sname, hes gonna try to punish aproaches with those crazy tilts and jabs, and quack makes you impredictable, and its fast, so its really good for runing away that slow and heavy snake, overaal, snake is pretty hard to kill
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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Apr 2, 2008
Messages
5,641
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
the biggest problem i had with snake wasn't with grenades or recovering. it was attacking snake then getting owned by his tilts. you see, snake can cancel our tjolts with a jab. that makes pika users get in close to attack since snake can nade/nikita/mortar slide into us while cancelling the tjolts. my most favorite approach is a FF fair>grab/dsmash. well if the snake shields then he can ftilt you before you pull off any attack and really punish you. combine this with a kill potential around 85% with his utilt, you can get hit 4 times by his ftilt then once by an utilt an die. thats 5 times he needs to hit you. you really need to know this matchup well if playing a good snake.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Pika?
Snake is a strange matchup. He is hard to fight, but not overwhelming. As Galax said, if you FF a fair, he can tilt you out of it, and since almost no snakes grab (besides florida snakes....which is rather irritating) you can shield their F-tilt and then grab them or whatever. Snakes f-tilt does 21% fresh. Your damage gets racked up very quick, and you must hit him a significant amount more to have the same effect. U-tilt comboes can be effective, and always try to bait an airdodge. Then you can f-smash or something off the level which is where snake is the worst. mortar slide can be irritating if you are trying to camp him since he can zoom right next to you if he times it right.

CG goes to i beleive 50, and if you are at the ledge, grab attack him until he is released, then jump out to hit him since he will most likely use his DJ so you can gmip it, then recover with QA. If he goes low, get to the edge and wait. Most snakes will try to get off the cypher and sweetspot the edge, but it is very easy to just run off and edgehog right before he gets off. Also, once the cypher fails, snakes try to plant a C4 and blow it up so they can recover again. If you see a snake do that, try and thunder to mess up their DI or add extra damage.

Main thing to avoid against snake is his dome of hitbox. Be ready to shield when you are in it, and you will most likely lose the battle here unless you get a grab or you bait a snake to attack the wrong way. QAC is also rendered semi-useless against snake since his hitboxes are huge and can hit you during it or if you venture too close by accident.

Pika advantages:
Speed
CG
Comboes
Edgeguarding

Pika Disadvantages:
Lightweight (Big disadvantage)
Less Range (Big disadvantage)
Less Priority

I would say that snake has the advantage here, 65-35 or 60-40.
 

Roller

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Mar 21, 2008
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Just follow the grime...
Quick attack cancel is very usefull against sname, hes gonna try to punish aproaches with those crazy tilts and jabs, and quack makes you impredictable, and its fast, so its really good for runing away that slow and heavy snake, overaal, snake is pretty hard to kill
Quoted for Truthery. QuAC wrecks him when used properly.
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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for my snake, when playing pika, i rely on my nades and my ability to cancel the tjolts to win. ftilts for damage and utilt for kills. the fsmash for the occasional setup and the bair just in case too. tilits kil pika here. any here fight a good snake on a regular basis? if so, what are your common attack strategies?
 

krehz

Smash Ace
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Feb 10, 2008
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618
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lol switch to DDD, but seriously i rely on the fact that they will try to cancel my tjolts upon approach and do a quick dsmash upon approach
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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Apr 2, 2008
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
one thing i suggest(highly) is saving your fsmash until its time to kill. this means you using more and more tilts. dtilt and ftilt. if you can keep one of your best kill moves fresh then do it. also, the utlit has amazing range(in front of him). but not behind him. use this knowledge to your advantage.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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Pika?
If the snake is any good he will just turn and f-tilt you for 16-21%. Seriously, respect the dome.
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
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If snake is recovering high, always good to use thunder on him!

thunder kills are really so good ;D

I think hit and run is the way to go. Attack > QAC away > FH tbolt > profit
 

PkTrainerCris

Smash Ace
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May 14, 2008
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colombia
Wait.... i spam Usmash against snake, i dont save it to kill becuase i think hes too heavy to die that way, maybe with usmash to thunder, but thats something you can also use when spamming the usmash, am i doing it wrong????
Also, hit and run should be the way to go against snake, and playing diferent, kinda like no fairing too much, in this match Bair is better, it doesnt matter if it is RARed or DIed forwards while doing it, the final hit can knock snake away and prevent the ftilt punish
 

Piman34

Smash Lord
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what attack cancels the t-jolt? I was unaware of this, but i think that most snakes will drop their grenades with a shield, allowing for a glide toss, but this can be shielded, and also, keep the t-jolt pressure, it will detract from their time on the ground to spam...that being said, you can do a full hop rising t-jolt, and then have time to react accordingly to whatever he throws/approaches with in time. you can also jump to air dodge and catch the grenades and throw them back, which is something alot of snakes don't expect. From my experience, snake's like platforms to place c4 on, and to help edgeguard, but i do believe platforms help us more, wavebouncing is a good way to use them as an advantage for mindgames
 

plasmid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 18, 2008
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176
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Hawaii
I know this thread is kind of old, and trust me I hate to bump it back up. However, I recently had a chance to play against PCChris (a famous melee pro, and really good snake in brawl). All I have to say is that snake, when used properly, is such an overpowered character, it honestly makes me want to quit brawl. That's why I haven't been posting much recently. Snake only needs ftilt to win a match. The strategy is easy to master, walk don't run, powershield to ftilt. That's it. Mortarslide to edgeguard if you're feeling fancy, utilt to kill. It's depressing how overpowered he is, and how he's really the only viable character for tourneys (unless you're being falco just to chaingrab snake).
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Pika?
If you play as smart as the snake, you should stand a decent chance. Of course snake is really good, he is the best or 2nd best character in the game. His f-tilt is ridiculous, but you learn the range and respect it, and get ready to shield.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Pika?
But yeah, as i said in my first post in this thread (long time ago) snake has the advantage. F-tilt is punishable, but you need pinpoint timing to do so. 5 F-tilts and a u-tilt kills pikachu, so you have to be paying VERY close attention to snakes dome of tilts, it will save you. Grenades can be bothersome when you try to CG, for if you don't do it frame perfect, they can get a grenade out which can disrupt it (try to be 2-4th player if your opponent is 1st so that the grenade hits them. Grenades aren't that hard to deal with. T-jolts stop them in the air and then make them explode. Pikachu's tilts are very hard to use in this matchup because of snakes overall great range (at least with the attacks that matter) Snake has basically no aerial game, and all they do is SH nair or falling bair, really easy to dodge (offline) Abuse Snake in the air, but be cautious, for Snake's last hit of the nair, or his bair, can do serious amounts of knockback, but haev tremendous lag after it.
 

Ussi

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@ Spycike: Metaknight...

@Topic: Snake is annoying... But Pikachu can combo Snake pretty well. Snake just has a bunch of stuff that makes hit and run soooo hard. Soo yea.. I use Ike for this one >____>
 

supermario27mx

Smash Ace
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Feb 12, 2008
Messages
633
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Tijuana/San Diego
i use kirby for this one
id rather play a meta knight than a snake anytime w/ pikachu since snake is my worst andmost hated matchup in general.
snake has so many BS kills that i hate sakurai for letting kojima passionately go down on him so snake can be in this game.
id say QAC efficiently, keep ur distance, dont waste ur smashes, spam Tjolts and i dont know pika is outclassed in so many ways.
i play hall (3rd place at evo, top 32 at axis) somewhat consistantly and his snake is brutal so i know some things
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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Apr 2, 2008
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
well i just finished the nades section and c4 and tilits section. there is a lot more to come but is there anything ive missed? my eyes are criss-crossing. lol.
 

supermario27mx

Smash Ace
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Feb 12, 2008
Messages
633
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Tijuana/San Diego
does anyone know if skull bash cancels out mortar slide or if any aerial move blocks one of his mortar shots (like kirby's Dair)
i played a snake/rob team in doubles on sunday but it was too chaotic for me to notice anything
oh god how i hate snake and his cheap kills
 

supermario27mx

Smash Ace
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Tijuana/San Diego
i know SB is WAAAAY punishable but i just have that impession that skull bash can cancel mortar slide's momentum i should try it out but i wouldnt be surprised if it phails. anyways IMO other than recoivery SB can serve for some minor combos (release-SB-qac-thunder) if ur feeling lucky/flashy and if the person u play is extremely slow or ultra n00b
 

gallax

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I just finshed more of the matchup people. Its still not done though. I have to talk about edgeguarding, killing, staying alive, and a little miscellaneous. So at least 4 more paragraphs.
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
hahaha. IM DONE!!!!!!!!!! its sooooooooooo goooooood. Its my best matchup by far. at least thats imo. what do you guys think? i really want some feedback please.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Pika?
I actually like U-smash to thunder as a way of killing snake. Snake in the air doesn't have that much momentum, so it is difficult for him to get out of the thunder.
 
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