ADHD
Smash Hero
Sheik, falco, and who else?
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The impossible matchups...?
- Thread starter ADHD
- Start date
Darkslash
Smash Master
Snake Sometimes...
ADHD
Smash Hero
If you get grabbed by DDD, its all over.
chronoize
Smash Journeyman
the only "impossible" matchup i see is falco. if u make a mistake at the begining of the game chances are , ur gonna get chaingrabbed and dair'ed.
DDD cant kill u that fast, hard matchup but not impossible. Metaknight is not an impossible matchup, incredibly hard but it can be done.
the only one i see is falco
DDD cant kill u that fast, hard matchup but not impossible. Metaknight is not an impossible matchup, incredibly hard but it can be done.
the only one i see is falco
ADHD
Smash Hero
Qzzy
Smash Journeyman
For me, it's Marth and Meta, b/c of the whole sword priority thing. Though I have feeling thats not how most feel.
Falco chain grab isn't that bad. Up to fifty percent damage? After playing lots DDDs, i just accept the fact and move on. Falco's chain grab won't lead to a spike unless you jump into it. Just DI away and don't jump right away. Granted, it's still a hard match up. Not impossible though.
Falco chain grab isn't that bad. Up to fifty percent damage? After playing lots DDDs, i just accept the fact and move on. Falco's chain grab won't lead to a spike unless you jump into it. Just DI away and don't jump right away. Granted, it's still a hard match up. Not impossible though.
KramerDsmash
Smash Rookie
I picked up game and watch solely because of falco and DDD. I feel like all other high tier matchups are possible.
WULFN
Smash Apprentice
So there might be a place for Wolf in a higher teir if he can make do with other teirs higher teirs???
I know he has a lot of potential left in him, we just need to unlock it faster!!!
I know he has a lot of potential left in him, we just need to unlock it faster!!!
Tyser
Smash Champion
This ChromePirate kid just spams these boards like no other holy crap.
@ ChromePirate: D3 grabs you, dthrow to off the ledge, jumps out, fair, jumps again, fair, jumps again, fair, jumps again, fair, jumps and upb back to stage, you are left too far out to recover, and you die.
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
Really? Dude, learn to airdodge. D3's fair has quite the startup, if I remember correctly. The main reason D3's chaingrab isn't game-breaking is because it doesn't have a good finisher. The main problem vs. D3 is them getting a free 30-40% damage on you from a chaingrab.
Van Jones
Smash Lord
DDD and Falco. Mostly Falco, though. Even after a DDD cg, I still work my way back into the match.
MK can still be hard due to his obvious brokenness, but I'm starting to find it easier and easier to deal with him.
MK can still be hard due to his obvious brokenness, but I'm starting to find it easier and easier to deal with him.
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
watch the germ vs zelgadis match it may demonstrate how to fight a DDD even if its kinda old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeI7P-hV1oc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MwRlDgSbIA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_wIpL_T2s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeI7P-hV1oc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MwRlDgSbIA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_wIpL_T2s&feature=related
Brightside
Smash Rookie
Falco is the only one I've been having consistent trouble with. As for MK, I learned how to beat it some time ago.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
Oh, cool. Why don't you share your incredible wisdom about "how to beat it" with the rest of us?
KramerDsmash
Smash Rookie
lol as funny as that was ^^ i don't think i've ever seen teekay say something nice
Reddent11
Smash Rookie
For me its not necessarily MK, but really Sheik and Falco.
I think those are the only two.....
but hey, everyone plays differently and has different opinions!
but if anyone has tips for fighting Falco or Sheik please let me know
im not an expert player and could use some help
I think those are the only two.....
but hey, everyone plays differently and has different opinions!
but if anyone has tips for fighting Falco or Sheik please let me know
im not an expert player and could use some help
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Counterpick Pirate Ship against Falco. On other stages, don't get grabbed under 50%. It's not that bad.
Against Sheik, smash DI up/jump out of Ftilt lock. Other than that, Wolf has a better projectile, better ground game and better air game. Counterpick Jungle Japes.
Against Sheik, smash DI up/jump out of Ftilt lock. Other than that, Wolf has a better projectile, better ground game and better air game. Counterpick Jungle Japes.
vato_break
Smash Master
I would say ness, hes a beast.
Sheik is not a bad matchup for wolf. Just don't get tilt locked, thats all you have to do. Wolf has huge advantages in the air, on the ground, off the ledge. The ONLY thing sheik has going is the ftilt lock, which is incredibly easy to avoid. There is nothing more wonderful than someone counterpicking sheik vs wolf.
Falco is not a great matchup, but focus on the positives. Wolf's moves beat falco on the ground and in the air. Falco's only true advantage is the chain spike, so DO NOT get grabbed under 40%. Spam, do what you have to, just do not get grabbed. Once your at 40% falco is not too bad to fight, just watch out of the DAC's and the laser rush ins.
Wolf's most nightmare matchup by FAR is the Ice climbers. Freaking nightmare vs a skilled player.
Falco is not a great matchup, but focus on the positives. Wolf's moves beat falco on the ground and in the air. Falco's only true advantage is the chain spike, so DO NOT get grabbed under 40%. Spam, do what you have to, just do not get grabbed. Once your at 40% falco is not too bad to fight, just watch out of the DAC's and the laser rush ins.
Wolf's most nightmare matchup by FAR is the Ice climbers. Freaking nightmare vs a skilled player.
I think Sheik+Zelda and Falco are the worst match-ups
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
Unfortunately for Wolf vs Sheik, the tilt-lock is inescapable if done correctly. There's a video of a We Ain't Ann Arbor tournament where Omniswell's Wolf (one of the best Wolves nation-wide, mind you) gets tilt-locked consistently and painfully by Ankoku's Sheik. Besides that, she's still a huge danger--her ground speed is downright scary, which is compounded by dangers such as her boost smash and jab-cancel > anything mixup. Her airgame is great. Her Nair has great priority, her Uair outranges any options you have if she's below you, her Bair outranges Wolf's, and her Fair and edgehogging (Chain sucks :/) can get some surprisingly early gimp kills if she manages to get you off the stage. Usmash, Vanish, and Zelda are all good options Sheik has for an onstage KO.
Playing against Sheik, you need to stay in control. Don't let her juggle you ever. If you go offstage, do your best to recover without the double jump if you can, because once you use it, it's easy for Sheik to get the gimp. The Reflector is your best friend in this matchup because it kills a lot of her mixups in the air and on the ground and puts you at the more advantageous situation. It also hurts her Needle game (fully charged, they can get 18% on you easy). You can pretty much outcamp her with your Blaster and Reflector, and Wolf can play a better defensive game. Playing an offensive game with Sheik is risky because she can follow you anywhere easy with her quick ground speed and good aerials. Try to keep the match on the ground where your Smashes and SH attacks can own her. You also kill a lot earlier than she can, so keep that in mind.
As for Falco--A big part of it is avoiding the Chaingrab. It definitely isn't the only danger Falco presents, but as a 0-death combo, it's definitely his scariest weapon. There's a whole thread on strategies vs. the Chaingrab a few topics down that's definitely worth a read.
Playing against Sheik, you need to stay in control. Don't let her juggle you ever. If you go offstage, do your best to recover without the double jump if you can, because once you use it, it's easy for Sheik to get the gimp. The Reflector is your best friend in this matchup because it kills a lot of her mixups in the air and on the ground and puts you at the more advantageous situation. It also hurts her Needle game (fully charged, they can get 18% on you easy). You can pretty much outcamp her with your Blaster and Reflector, and Wolf can play a better defensive game. Playing an offensive game with Sheik is risky because she can follow you anywhere easy with her quick ground speed and good aerials. Try to keep the match on the ground where your Smashes and SH attacks can own her. You also kill a lot earlier than she can, so keep that in mind.
As for Falco--A big part of it is avoiding the Chaingrab. It definitely isn't the only danger Falco presents, but as a 0-death combo, it's definitely his scariest weapon. There's a whole thread on strategies vs. the Chaingrab a few topics down that's definitely worth a read.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Omniswell played well, but he didn't smash DI the Ftilt Lock properly. Looked like it was first time encountering it. You can get out of it at like 70%. It's a 25%-70% combo, so it's only 45% overall.
Once you're above 40%, Falco is alot easier to deal with. His kill moves are mediocre and punishable.
Once you're above 40%, Falco is alot easier to deal with. His kill moves are mediocre and punishable.
snadmonkey
Smash Journeyman
lol. People are so wrong about how to escape sheiks ftilt lock and thats why people get stuck in it. First off i f u are below 20% smash di down to shield, if u are over 20%, smash di towards shiek not up. You'll pass through her and she can't do a turnaround tilt fast enough to stop shield. Also, ur aerials are way better than shieks, stay in the air, shieks best game is ground based, also her aerial goes downwards angle when in air so she can't needle you. She is also very easy to edgehog and dies really early.
Falco sucks get use to it, avoiding grabs can be near impossible but its doable since falco has short grab reach, just watch for laser to grab or jab to grab, you can stop em but gotta be rdy.
IC's.... I'm convinced this is a baaadddd mismatch for wolf. 0-death is very easy to preform on wolf since they just need to wabble you to edge and downthrow to forward air at any precent to edge hog and u die. Their projectile is better than urs and that down and side b can screw up any approach you throw at them. I know the objective is not to be grabbed, but with use of the split grab, (where nana and popo are seperated but nana can still grab you) its sooo hard. I've yet to find a good strat other than use downsmash alot to try and hit nana.(btw only top IC's, mediocre and bad IC's are ez wins)
Lately I've been really struggling with 5 move MK's though. If they are good enough not to get hit by laser and stick solely to 5 good moves, ftilt fair, upb(glideattack), downsmash, and tornado. I can't seem to find anything that will consistantly take them out. The speed on ftilt and forward are are crazy good, and being above mk is a death wish from shuttle loop. Using tornado as a defence against any air attack and threatening any follow up or punish opportunity with downsmash makes MK so hard to beat.
BTW, I'm not a scrub wolf. I know what I'm doing. I can beat alot of really good players. I've beaten some of the top players of every char except MK and IC. I don't know any top sheik but best one i've played i dominate(but i play sheik myself so I know the match-up). BTW snake isn't an impossible matchup, just need to mix in tilts and properly space all ur moves. If there are any really good wolf's that can tell me how to beat really good MK's let me know.
Falco sucks get use to it, avoiding grabs can be near impossible but its doable since falco has short grab reach, just watch for laser to grab or jab to grab, you can stop em but gotta be rdy.
IC's.... I'm convinced this is a baaadddd mismatch for wolf. 0-death is very easy to preform on wolf since they just need to wabble you to edge and downthrow to forward air at any precent to edge hog and u die. Their projectile is better than urs and that down and side b can screw up any approach you throw at them. I know the objective is not to be grabbed, but with use of the split grab, (where nana and popo are seperated but nana can still grab you) its sooo hard. I've yet to find a good strat other than use downsmash alot to try and hit nana.(btw only top IC's, mediocre and bad IC's are ez wins)
Lately I've been really struggling with 5 move MK's though. If they are good enough not to get hit by laser and stick solely to 5 good moves, ftilt fair, upb(glideattack), downsmash, and tornado. I can't seem to find anything that will consistantly take them out. The speed on ftilt and forward are are crazy good, and being above mk is a death wish from shuttle loop. Using tornado as a defence against any air attack and threatening any follow up or punish opportunity with downsmash makes MK so hard to beat.
BTW, I'm not a scrub wolf. I know what I'm doing. I can beat alot of really good players. I've beaten some of the top players of every char except MK and IC. I don't know any top sheik but best one i've played i dominate(but i play sheik myself so I know the match-up). BTW snake isn't an impossible matchup, just need to mix in tilts and properly space all ur moves. If there are any really good wolf's that can tell me how to beat really good MK's let me know.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
DI towards Sheik doesn't work for me. M2K had no trouble doing turn around Ftilts quickly. But yeah, DI towards the ground under 25%. Over 25%, smash DI up and jump has been the most consistent for me.
Against MK, if you block Dsmash and the last hit of Ftilt, you can punish with Fsmash. The only way to punish Fsmash is with jab, if he spaces it poorly. Shine beats Tornado. Blaster too if he's careless.
I agree, Snake is not one of Wolf's hardest matchups.
Yeah, ICs are a nightmare. Wolf can't laser and SideB camp like Falco can.
Against MK, if you block Dsmash and the last hit of Ftilt, you can punish with Fsmash. The only way to punish Fsmash is with jab, if he spaces it poorly. Shine beats Tornado. Blaster too if he's careless.
I agree, Snake is not one of Wolf's hardest matchups.
Yeah, ICs are a nightmare. Wolf can't laser and SideB camp like Falco can.
I find MK to be one of Wolfs hardest match-ups. Not as bad as Falco but still very hard to beat. Sometimes I can make it but not reliably. I use 0 lag fairs a lot vs him and it works quite alright. Usually I pick a small stage, to finish him asap.
I agree with Snad.
A 5 move MK is an extremely difficult matchup. Much worse than a falco or sheik. It seems to me that if that MK plays very smart, the only effective strategy is pure spam and run and keep the dsmash fresh. MK's tend to get frustrated and start spamming tornado, which is exactly where you want them. It's just so hard not to get caught by one gimpy shuttle loop throughout a match.
And yeah, mediocre IC's are a massacre, it's the ones that are very good at approaching and then letting popo get hit and pivot grabbing with nana. Worst wolf matchup by far.
A 5 move MK is an extremely difficult matchup. Much worse than a falco or sheik. It seems to me that if that MK plays very smart, the only effective strategy is pure spam and run and keep the dsmash fresh. MK's tend to get frustrated and start spamming tornado, which is exactly where you want them. It's just so hard not to get caught by one gimpy shuttle loop throughout a match.
And yeah, mediocre IC's are a massacre, it's the ones that are very good at approaching and then letting popo get hit and pivot grabbing with nana. Worst wolf matchup by far.
Reddent11
Smash Rookie
Yes Brightside i would like to know how to beat MK??
Ive recently been playing alot of MKs and they tend to be quite annoying??
Wanna help me out?
or if any1 else knows that works too
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
even when it happens, you forget he got lasers and can easily punish wolf, so wolf's chances are still slim to none.
your quote makes me laugh
snadmonkey
Smash Journeyman
On a side note, I wanna work on an alt to combat future run ins with Falco/MK/IC and hopefully DDD/kirby/olimar. I can beat the ladder 3, but I hate the fights and grab whores just piss me off in general.
What char is good against these guys thats not a grab ***** or GW/mk/snake. MK/falco are prolly the most urgent, I've been thinking of kirby or marth. I like ROB but he gets ***** by good MK's and I have trouble bypassing falcos that laser spam.
Any ideas, please suggest more than one if you can, like 5-8 chars I can't play on roster. Its prolly a very good idea for a wolf main to have a strong backup anyways for these 2 matchups, I might be willing to play snake but he hates falco just as much as wolf.
What char is good against these guys thats not a grab ***** or GW/mk/snake. MK/falco are prolly the most urgent, I've been thinking of kirby or marth. I like ROB but he gets ***** by good MK's and I have trouble bypassing falcos that laser spam.
Any ideas, please suggest more than one if you can, like 5-8 chars I can't play on roster. Its prolly a very good idea for a wolf main to have a strong backup anyways for these 2 matchups, I might be willing to play snake but he hates falco just as much as wolf.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
I didn't forget Falco's laser. It's a good projectile, but Wolf doesn't just stand there and get ***** by it at all.even when it happens, you forget he got lasers and can easily punish wolf, so wolf's chances are still slim to none.
your quote makes me laugh
Falco easily punishes Wolf? I think we're passed the point in time where noob Wolfs randomly smashed peoples shields. Well spaced Fair, Bair, Ftilt, Dtilt, and jab mixups are easily punished?
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
again i'm taking this into serious consideration, and i am telling you how it is. both wolfs recovery are more easier to gimp than falco. wolf does have a good ground game but thats all he's gonna have to rely on the most vs falco. falco can shut down his air game and punish wolf for his laggy ground moves.
since you saying falco is easy to punish why won't you show us a vid that way maybe you can show people how to beat falcos?
and i mean a good one too
snadmonkey
Smash Journeyman
Laser the side b to run off stage back air for stage spike, awesome way to kill falcos.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Um, it's highly debatable who's recovery is easier to gimp in general. Trigger happy Falco's aren't immune to Wolf's shine you know. In close quarters SH Fair and Bair come out nearly as fast as ground attacks, not exactly easy to shut down. And I like how people stil think good Wolf's just spam smashes into shields. I already explained what moves Wolf can use to build damage without leaving himself wide open.again i'm taking this into serious consideration, and i am telling you how it is. both wolfs recovery are more easier to gimp than falco. wolf does have a good ground game but thats all he's gonna have to rely on the most vs falco. falco can shut down his air game and punish wolf for his laggy ground moves.
since you saying falco is easy to punish why won't you show us a vid that way maybe you can show people how to beat falcos?
and i mean a good one too
And I didn't say Falco's whole moveset is easily punishable, but his smashes and Shine definitely are, since Wolf gets a free Fsmash on block.
Beetle Juice
Smash Journeyman
if you notice iv've never, EVER, said people spam wolfs front smash you keep assuming that. what i am stating is that wolfs front smash is predictable for the fact of how he spaces so most of the time people can see it coming. stop the assumption with the noobish spam the front smash.
falco doesn't smash that much so its hard to tell when he's gonna do it.
Personally, I use GaW + ROB as back ups for Wolf. GaW wins against Falco, Zelda/Sheik, ICs and D3. He is one of the few characters, who doesn't phail against MK too. ROB is mainly to counter Snake and to have something decent against Marth, who is troublesome against Wolf and GaW
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
I don't know about other Wolves, but I only Fsmash when it's guaranteed to hit, mostly to punish with and it's very very good at punishing. Poking with Fsmash is not smart, you almost always have a safer option.
teekay
Smash Journeyman
The problem is this: if you have a backup for Wolf's tough matchups, you basically are now using your backup for more of your tourney matches than you are using your Wolf for.
Wolf players are never going to get around this. If we really want to stick with him, we're going to have to find the best strategies against these characters and learn them and hope we can just outplay our opponents. If you want a backup for tough matches you might as well stop maining Wolf right now.
Wolf players are never going to get around this. If we really want to stick with him, we're going to have to find the best strategies against these characters and learn them and hope we can just outplay our opponents. If you want a backup for tough matches you might as well stop maining Wolf right now.