• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Board Specific Matchup Chart Project (Last Update: 12/21)- Not a tier list!

DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
My vision is that this thread will be a reliable place to view the board specific matchups without having to search each character board for their opinions. This will be just like IvanEva's, but will only include matchup info from the character specfic boards' matchup threads. The posts in this thread will only be links to updated matchup threads and the characters that have been updated.Don't bother telling me that so and so has the advantage over so and so if the character specific matchup threads say otherwise. Go to THOSE threads to discuss them. If there's any disagreement among different character boards regarding a matchup, I'll leave it blank. If they agree, we're getting somewhere.

Also, THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE MY THOUGHTS ON THE MATCHUPS. IT'S BOARD SPECIFIC ONLY.

How to read the colors:
30/70-10/90(Red)
-----
-big disadvantage
40/60-35/65(Orange)-disadvantage
55/45-45/55(Yellow)
--
-even
60/40-65/35(Green)
--
-advantage
70/30-90/10(Blue)
----
-big advantage

Exceptions!(only one currently)
1.) There are matchups that are agreed to be advantaged for a certain character, but are disagreed to what extent. These matchups are left at a small advantage.

(Ex. It's agreed that Kirby has the advantage over Falco. The Kirby boards say it's a small disadvantage for Falco, but the Falco boards have it at 70-30. I put the matchup as a small disadvantage.) Reason being, this chart takes into account what the boards agree to. In this case, they agree to an advantage for Kirby. They agree about who has the advantage over who. Our goal is to come to a consensus about who has the advantages, neutrals, and disadvantages against what characters. The matchups that are solidly recognized to be heavily disadvantaged for a character are included in this chart. That's what's important.

"The metagame will constantly evolve, but whether a match is easy, average, or hard will not unless some serious changes are made. The balance of power in a matchup might change slightly... but not much without the discovery of a chaingrab, new AT, or other such thing. So... you can read "this match is average" and know that while it may be less in ROB's favor than other 'average" matches, they all fit the same pool."
-Overswarm, in his R.O.B. guide

Sheik/Zelda:
In this chart, Sheik/Zelda means the best combination of using Sheik and Zelda against a certain character. The same goes for Pokemon Trainer.

Tip:
Since the chart is so big, I suggest pressing F11 to take away the taskbar and other internet browsing options. It'll make the screen bigger, and the chart more viewable.

-thanks
Matchup Threads
Bowser- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6167643#post6167643
Captain Falcon- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4749443#post4749443
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979&page=226
Charizard- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869
Diddy Kong- http://smashboards.com./showthread.php?t=181638
Donkey Kong- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193883
Falco- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202
Fox- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186742
Game & Watch- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763
Ganondorf- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191143
Ice Climbers- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188700
Ike- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189813
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203904
Ivysaur- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869
Jigglypuff- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210009
King Dedede- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600
Kirby- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032
Link- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5436219
Lucario- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176912
Lucas- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183767
Luigi- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190139
Mario-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212008
Marth- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186736
Meta Knight-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463
Ness- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188116
Peach- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193
Pikachu- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174335
Pikman & Olimar- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185014
Pit- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212541
R.O.B.- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199016
Samus- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183602
Sheik- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741
Snake- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175515
Sonic- http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5201273&postcount=3
Squirtle- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869
Toon Link- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182155
Wario- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196010
Wolf- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188329
Yoshi- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201922
Zelda- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190698
Zero Suit Samus- http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176928

Very Special Thanks!
-Zamz created the chart.
-Adapt provided tons of matchup data that he has been collecting.
-the SWF communtiy for their help!
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Notes page

Recent changes

12/21
Sheik>>Fox
Sheik=DDD, Mario, TL
Sheik<Peach
Zelda>DDD
Zelda<MK
Zelda=Peach
Sheik/Zelda>>Fox
Sheik/Zelda>Kirby
Sheik/Zelda=Peach
Yoshi v Olimar to undecided.

12/14
Sonic=IC, Ness
Sonic<Yoshi
Snake<DDD
Yoshi>Lucas
Yoshi<Falco
Yoshi=Mario
Yoshi v Rob undecided
Kirby>Falco
Sheik's left pinky>>>>>>>>>>Ganon

12/13
MK>GaW, Diddy
MK=Falco, Bowser
GaW>DDD, TL, Rob
Olimar=Pikachu
Olimar>>Ike

Changes to be made:
-add numbers
-impossible matchup color (pending)
Falco<Marth
Falco=Wario, Snake, Pit
Falco>>Ganon
Falco v Wolf to undecided
Ness v MK to undecided
Mario=Sonic, Sheik, Sheik/Zelda, Wolf
Sonic<Sheik, Wario
MK>Wolf
Wolf v Diddy, Luigi to undecided
Wolf=ZSSSSSSSS
Mario=Lucario, ZSS
Marth>Mario
Kirby's matchups
DDD=Peach, Fox
DDD>Kirby, Pikachu, Diddy, Sheik/Zelda
GaW>Kirby, Ike
Pit's new matchup thread

Matchups to look into:
Ganondorf v Kirby
Wario v Sheik
Wario v Zelda
Wario v Ike
Wario v Luigi
Squirtle v Wario
Squirtle v Olimar
DK v Link
DK v MK
Zelda v MK
MK v Fox
Luigi v Lucas
Luigi v Wario
Rob v ZSS

Both boards disagree with each other (rather heavily) about these^ matchups the last time I checked.
 
Sosuke

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
So only threads with matchup numbers can be included?
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Not exactly. I need a way/system to identify disadvantage from neutral from advantage. In short, no, I won't be excluding threads without numbers, but they help tremendously.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
It hasn't been updated in nearly a month and a half. I don't think I can use it.

On a side note, you don't need to post every matchup. Just the link. thanks.

Edit:
@Veggi below me V- that's why I'm taking data from both character's boards. If they don't agree, I won't include it.

@sasuke above me ^- That'll be great. As long as they're recent or not outdated, it's fine.
 
Veggi

Veggi

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,590
Location
I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
I've seen alot of people say their character doesn't have a hard time with Snake, so this roster might come out looking different than expected. That's fine though, I think the opinions of the people that play the character matter the most. In my opinion 80-20 or above would be a large disadvantage. I could be wrong on any of this though. Good luck on the chart.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
"1.) I'm unsure what the chart should look like. I'd like everyone's input on what type of chart it'll be.(numbers, colors, both?) Should it look like phanna's? IvanEva's? Something different?"
-OP

Any thoughts? I was thinking something similiar to phanna's.
 
Sosuke

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
I'd say start off with a simple colored one, like the Lucario one, then move on the numbers.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
phanna chart has a pretty good layout. If you're going for simplicity, though, 7-3 or higher I would consider a hard counter matchup, while anything less is either a soft counter or even.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
I think the phanna chart would be a good way to do it. How do I get his layout?

Edit: I just started on an excel format. It's going to take a while though, so be patient everyone.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
I don't think you can actually "get" it. For simplicity's sake, I suppose you could just put it all in Excel and take a screenshot, but I believe phanna and IvanEva built theirs in Photoshop.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
I've begun uploading the first draft of my chart. I've only included the numbers 30-35/65-70,(red) 40/60,(orange) 50/50,(green) 60/40,(dark blue) and 65-70/35-30.(light blue) Remember that this is the first draft and that things are very likely to change.

Edit: It's uploaded. It's kinda small, so if you know how to make it larger, just tell me. I'm trying to figure it out.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
@Kiwikomix- yes it does. It's to guarantee its accuracy to make it a reliable source to get matchup odds.

I still have to work out a few kinks though. The chart in the OP is a draft. I'm currently taking suggestions on how to change it.
 
cutter

cutter

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,316
Location
Getting drilled by AWPers
A big question that I really can see becoming a problem: What do you do with conflicting information? (ie one board says matchup is neutral between character X and Y while the other board a 6:4 advantage in favor of character X)
 
Mmac

Mmac

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
1,967
Location
BC, Canada
It's looking good so far, and hopefully will be updated more often. One suggestion is that the factor between Minor and Major seems to be too thin. I'd suggest:

Neutral: 45-55, or 50-50
Minor: 40-60, or 35-65
Major: 70-30 and beyond
 
zamz

zamz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
291
For Falco, this link's somewhat outdated but it's probably the most complete--and relatively accurate--list you'll find. It's a month old, but things haven't changed enough to make the general rulings change. We're all in agreement about our counters (the characters in red)...but the characters in green might have a slightly different ratio.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172023
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
It's empty spots. I haven't updated it entirely b/c of the lack of matchup threads. I have a list of changes I'll make the next time I update it. (which is probably today) It's the first post below the OP.
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
Question: if match-ups have already agreed on 55:45 matchups and vice-versa, what do you want us to do with it?
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
^I'll count it as neutral for now. A very minor skill difference between the two people can make up for 5/100.
 
DanGR

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Have both sides visited the thread and came up with that conclusion? I know that debate has been going on for a while. I'd like to make sure both sides have come to an agreement.
 
-Jumpman-

-Jumpman-

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,854
Location
Netherlands
I really like the idea. But the current chart is very small and hard to read. Good luck with this project.
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
DanGR said:
Have both sides visited the thread and came up with that conclusion? I know that debate has been going on for a while. I'd like to make sure both sides have come to an agreement.
Click to expand...
Yes, several Zelda mains have visited said thread, and there's a thread on the Zelda board somewhere like that one and Ness users went there and did the same thing. In the thread I linked alone, three Zelda users (myself, Yuna, and StH) were present throughout the whole thread, and other Zelda players have posted their comments as well. It's in the Ness board, so there was more than enough recognition for him. In the end, we had 60:40 Ness, 55:45 Ness, and 50:50. Of the three, 55:45 was the most accepted choice, then 50:50. For it to be on the Ness board, I believe that's reasonable for Zelda.
 
Cubes

Cubes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
42
the light blue and the teal are kinda hard to pick out (at least for me). you could put in purple or something darker for the huge advantage/hard counter, and use light blue as small advantage/soft counter. or you can change to w/e color you want. it just might be hard at first glance to differentiate between those 2.
 
Adapt

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
Location
NS, Canada
Hey DanGR, I just started one of these myself last week.... I have an excel file with all the data I could find on the character boards, and then I began to fill in the blanks. It's only just over 1/2 filled in, but it's much father along than yours.

Would you like me to send it to you?

I have the raw data on one sheet, and the filled in copy on another sheet in the same doc
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom