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Lucario Vs. Pikachu (Match-Up Thread Export)

Jeepy Sol

Smash Ace
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Dec 6, 2007
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798
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Northern California
~Rotation 9~ Pikachu (PG. 45-50)

Pikachu, the oversized mouse with a 9V battery stuck up its butt.
He's a quick little bugger that gets on everybody's nerves without a song.

Pikachu has been in every Smash bro's games to date. With minor tweaks here and there, but hasn't changed too much from his original version. With lightning fast attacks and lightning, any character fighting him will feel the thunder.


Pikachu has dinky little arms, so majority of his attacks are from this electricity or some part of his body. Meaning, Pika's got some kind of disjointed range. He's small, so the extended range is highly needed and used.

Out of the box, Pika's got some new tricks up his sleeve. One such sleeve is his newly tweaked Quick Attack (Up-b). Pika can change direction of where his going, and this does damage if made contact. So on the ground, he can run lines around you, leaving you helpless.

What also makes pika good is he can punish those who like to hang onto ledges. Pika's thundershock (B) dances along surfaces. So a Mr.Cliffhanger will get a face full of electricity and fall. By then, Pika can follow up with his ever so famous ThunderBolt (Down-B). A thunderbolt will hurtle downward perfectly parallel to where pika was when he used the move. Those hit, go flying.

Aura spam will be faltered by the thundershocks, and Pika can fire his faster. A medium+ AS (depending on %) however will eat through many shocks and possibly hitting pika. Dont rely on DT to save you to often, one mistake and your going to be hit by a little yellow rodent.

Then there's the Whorenado. Pika's Down smash, and its devastating. It has a AOE effect on Pikachu, anyone near him will get "grabbed" by electric sparks and sucked into the center of Pika, taking high amounts of damage in the process. Pika's love this move. Everyone else, not so much.

In the ways of %/%. I will say that this match is in Pika's favor, only by sheer speed and the canceling of some of our key moves.
-tedward2000


Behavior:
  • Some of the more gutsy Pikachu players WILL edge guard you. If you happen to be below the stage and you need to recover, watch out for incoming aerials and Wave-bounced thunders. When recovering from above, you have a lot less to worry about, because you can pretty much just f-air/air dodge your way back to the stage so long as you don't waste your second jump.
    Be careful of QAC, as it can really let Pikachu get up close to you. Worse yet, it can get Pikachu away from you and start firing thunder jolts. However if a Pikachu player decides to try firing one too many jolts, time a charged Aura Sphere to charge through the bolts and blast that Pika. However that's easier said than done, as Pikachu using thunder jolts on the ground isn't that common in the first place. Short hopped and full hopped jolts will be tons more common...
    -Pentaoku
  • Pikachu does not, by any means, have to approach you. He can just sit there and shoot his stupid little thunderjolt with short hops or(most likely) full jumps. It has good priority, so your Aura Spheres won't beat it as BAS ever. A FCAS will beat it out at any percentage higher than 70%. As a side note you can spam your BAS way faster than he can spam his thunderjolt, and since thunderjolt NEVER eats BAS or fully charged at any percentage, if you get into a projectile battle you're gonna win. Pikachu can approach with the fair a whole lot; it's easily spammed. It has a certain property of floatiness that allows Pikachu to do a slight slide when he hits the ground if you tap a direction(you can see this VERY evidently with Marth), so watch out for that, because it's good for spacing and keeping away from counter attacks and also for doing the dsmash. Pickachu's LOOOOVE their dsmash, and MOST Pikachu players will not save it as a kill move and simply abuse it all the time, similar to Peach's dsmash in Melee, ja? If you do get hit with it, then you need to space better, especially at higher percentages when all you need to do to keep him away from you on the ground is shoot AS at him because it WILL eat through the thunderjolt. If Pickachu jumps over it, then you should be at an advantage, right? Anyways, if the dsmash hits you, then tap DI rapidly to one side and get out please. Do not just sit there and do nothing, because the final hit has more knockback than the rest and you'll probably die if you're not at least TRYING to DI, and if you don't die they'll just use a thunder, and since you'll probably be so high up Lucario won't be able to move yet, you're still dead.
    -Erich



Fundamental Moves:
  • Thunder-Jolt: Pikachu's projectile. They combine this with the SH for spacing. Can stop our baby-AS. A 3/4(?) or fully charged AS will go through these.
  • Dsmash: Most annoying move ever. Used to rack up damage. Do not roll spam around a pikachu! You can DI out of this.
  • Thunder: Pika's "Raining projectile". Used for edgeguarding games. Can stop our arial game if used right.
  • Quick Attack: Pika's recovery move. Used with QAC and QAL for mindgames. The QAC can be deadly if you dont see it. Dairing can help with this.
    -Trela


Match-Up: 55:45 (Neutral)


How to Win:
  • Pikachu's down smash is definitely something to look out for. So its something you should definitely try as a finisher seeing as how Pikachu is going to use down smash whenever he gets the chance and you dont have an aura sphere charged up.
    Pikachu has some weird priority on his aerials. Most notably b-air and f-air. They are multi hit attacks and suck you in really well, all it takes is getting nicked and you are taking some damage. Im also not sure, but I think there is some degree of disjointedness in his aerials, however Lucario still wins out there, but if your timing isnt extremely good, your going to trade blows with him.
    Lucario's d-air isnt as useful here, since Pikachu can use Thunder to deter this.
    Also important to understand is that Pikachu pretty much REQUIRES you to be very close to him in order to kill you, with the exception of thunder (the lightning bolt part), the hitboxes for all his kill moves are small. Also, you should NEVER get hit by his thunder on the ground, it just shouldnt happen, but on the off chance that it does its probably going to kill you if you are at any decent percentage since it has insane knockback.
    The quick attack cancel is something that you do need to look out for, but lucky for Lucario he has a projectile and keeping a charged one should stop your opponent from using QAC as an approach option.
    Pikachu is a rather small character. And something about the way he moves just makes him a bit difficult to hit. He is also rather challenging to gimp so I would be a little wary about how you try to fight when you are off stage. I would say you are better off following up with b-air and d-air (at higher percentages) when off stage to try to kill him rather than trying to gimp him.
    And as much as I seem to be saying Lucario wins out on everything. Pikachu really is a solid character and the fact that is is next to impossible to gimp means you have to send him flying to his death. That poses a little problem to Lucario since gimping is clearly the best way to get kills. And its not that Lucario cant kill, but due to aura I would say his killing ability is slightly below average most of the time during the match. Pikachu isnt exactly extremely light if I recall correctly, hes close to middle weight, so hes not too easy to kill, but not exactly hard.
    -manhunter098
  • When played by a noob, you very quickly learn how to avoid thunderbolts and thunderjolts. When played by the average person you learn to keep your cool and take advantage of screwups. When played by a pro you learn the fine art of swearing... and how to butcher it.
    Thunderjolts can be dodged, jumped over, Pshielded ect... Pikachu IS able to rack up damage fast with his non spam-ed attacks and has plenty of ways to kill. Despite Pikachu being good at being a prick and can seemingly run circles around Lucario with QAC and such, he is a soccer ball. One good boot and Pika is flying off the stage. Tilts and smashes will outrange Pika for the most part and when Pika is at 50%+ ish, most of Lucario's kill moves take effect (at mid %'s for both players, utilt will kill Pika in a second if he's standing anywhere around you).
    -Nodrak
  • Pika's approach is ****ing amazing. Don't stand there like an idiot, you'll get murdered. If you're not pummelling the little rodent, stay in the air and keep him guessing. Just standing around isn't going to do you anything.
    Keep full auraspheres at all times. Throw one at him when he attempts to thundershock you. Thundershock has a pretty crappy afterlag on it, so if you're a decent space away from him, it'll tear through the thundershock and destroy him.
    Pikachu's a gay character. There's no point denying it. If you're winning with Pikachu, you're using retreating thundershocks 3/4 of the time. Understandable, Pikachu can't take hits. With that said, it's necessary to approach him more often than not. Our fair combos don't work very well on him, as he's small. SHAD behind him doesn't work as you'll more often than not be sucked up by his dsmash. Pikachu has a very noticeable amount of afterlag on his thundershocks though. SH dair is effective as approach. If he's approaching midair with a thundershock, roll behind the shock (and him) and intercept him.
    Just stay in the air all game. The only threatening aerial that Pikachu has is his fair, and comparing it to ours, it's silly.
    -Timbers
  • Keep him in your fsmash range at all times. That way he's too far away to hit you and too close to spam without being punished. If he QACs away, then either follow him or try to fire a full AS in his face. Get him in the air where, for the most part, you'll overwhelm him with your superior aerial play. Pika is one of the best spammers in the game, so you'll always want to space well and keep up the pressure.
    -Fizzle
  • Please use either fully charged AS' after 70% to eat through the thunderjolt spam, or just shoot BAS at any percentage to cancel them out and win the projectile battle. They will most likely be doing full jumped thunderjolts, so find a way around that. It's not an impregnable defense, it never is. Keep him Pika in the air, preferably above you so that you're not vulnerable to thunder. You need to space well too. The fsmash is generally not recommended, as it is very slow and Pikachu is not slow, so try to use your tilts more. FPCG isn't really all that useful either, but it can still combo if you time everything right. Just try to kill Pikachu quickly, because if you don't then you'll lose the edge you gain from them being unable to kill you until at least 120% or so, unless you're an idiot and DI upwards on a dsmash to a thunder. Once at higher percentages, control the match and hold on to that stock as long as you can.
    -Erich
  • You can play extremely gay in the higher percents with aurasphere. Abusing it shuts down a lot of his approach. Stay in the air. The only killmove Pika has in the air is his nair, and it's severely lacking in range. I'd stay in the air for the most of this game. Pika gets around your ground game way too well.
    -Timbers


Recommended Stages:
  • Battlefield: His projectiles are quite useless here. It is also impossible to Thunder you while you are on stage. This stage also enhances you brick-walling.
  • Luigi's Mansion: This stage, again, is very good for Lucario. The ceiling's on the left and right sides of the stage will protect you from being killed with the d/up smash. It also negates Pikachu's down-b, so abuse that too. You'll collect damage pretty easily, so once you're at a good enough percent space yourself right and do a FP or something. If you do it right they'll go flying right out the upper side or right off the top. You have several kill moves, so pick one and use it. Whatever.
    -Erich
  • Yoshis Island/Frigate Orpheon: Pikachus Thunder Jolt with travel down the sides of the stages, which means your Wall Cling will get easily gimped.



--It is not necessary to post here, but if you think something is missing or innacurate, feel free to post here or in the stickied Match-Up Thread.
 

nightSN

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hnmmmm very many of this is true, also watch out for pikachu's chaingrab (fthrow) pikachu is my 2nd main and many of this is true. also dont get consumed in mind game of qac > thunder! cause it sucks if you get hit =P. LOL
 

G-Beast

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from my experience, trying to beat pikachus Fspecial(skull bash?) from the front or with aura spheres is a bad idea, using dair on anywere 'cept the front ot just getting outta the way and punishing as he lands works. also a good opportunity for DT to shine.
 

PraKirJaq

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Pikachu has been in every Smash bro's games to date. With minor tweaks here and there, but hasn't changed too much from his original version. With lightning fast attacks and lightning, any character fighting him will feel the thunder.
The only part I disagree with; Pikachu in SSB64 had an incredible edgaurd game and didn't rely on Thubderjolt nearly as much. In that game Pikachu could chain his nairs, uairs, and bairs (and could KO), as they were all very quick. Bair, instead of a copter like feel, was a back kick and nair was a very fast sex kick. But other than that nickpick about a game nobody here plays, very informative :)
 

Binx

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Pikachu should have had his 64 bair in this game, but honestly his quick attack is easilly outprioritized, just know when to toss a good smash out, his projectile is really slow too, so its easy to block, dodge, counter or whatever.

Be mindful of where pikachu is in relation to you at all times, especially when hes below you. Also make sure you keep your spacing, his aerials are really short range so you should be able to keep him away and take advantage of him, the one problem is that he is kind of small and hard to hit when he stays on the ground, fortunately his dsmash has crappy range, and his forward smash starts nice and slow, overall it probably is pretty even though.
 

OneWingedAngelo1

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makes me want to smack you...

If you SDI of the attack before the final hit, you're going to land on the ground while Pikachu is still in cooldown lag from dsmash.
Oh I am sorry, I read that Quick Attack Cancel >>> Thunder was a good idea for Pikachu if your opponent is in the air and techs the landing and was responding to that...

I didn't know that Down Smash was involved in this too. But even still, since you are DIing out of an attack then teching once you hit the ground doesn't that give Pikachu enough time to Quick Attack Cancel out from Down Smash? Or are we all ******** good at Smash DIing that we can get launched out of an attack the moment it starts up?

You still haven't answered my question.... >_>
 

dj_pwn1423

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Oh I am sorry, I read that Quick Attack Cancel >>> Thunder was a good idea for Pikachu if your opponent is in the air and techs the landing and was responding to that...

I didn't know that Down Smash was involved in this too. But even still, since you are DIing out of an attack then teching once you hit the ground doesn't that give Pikachu enough time to Quick Attack Cancel out from Down Smash? Or are we all ******** good at Smash DIing that we can get launched out of an attack the moment it starts up?

You still haven't answered my question.... >_>
wut. If you DI out of Dsmash you are almost "semi spiked" towards the ground. I think theres enough time for you to tech before Pika finishes its Dsmash AND QACs.
 

OneWingedAngelo1

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wut. If you DI out of Dsmash you are almost "semi spiked" towards the ground. I think theres enough time for you to tech before Pika finishes its Dsmash AND QACs.
There is enough time for you to tech and put of a shield... but if you are doing anything other then that there is a good chance that you are going to get hit with Quick Attack Canceled Thunder.
 

Timbers

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I didn't know that Down Smash was involved in this too. But even still, since you are DIing out of an attack then teching once you hit the ground doesn't that give Pikachu enough time to Quick Attack Cancel out from Down Smash? Or are we all ******** good at Smash DIing that we can get launched out of an attack the moment it starts up?

You still haven't answered my question.... >_>
By the time you actually hit the ground, Pika is going to be finishing up his dsmash. Even if you sdi the second to last hit, you'll still have enough time to react before he's out of cooldown lag. You're going to be able to react quicker than he can, and I'm pretty sure shielding is quicker than QAC->whatever. >_>

What uqestion.
 

Blood_Hawk

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Pikachu uses down smash.

1. Shield it
2. Eat about half of the attack with your shield
3. Spot dodge the last half
4. Free D-smash, grab, etc.
5. <3 Happy Lucario

If you are being hit by it, Smash DI left really quick, then right. You pop out almost every time. You can quarter circle DI out of it easily too, just be sure you don't DI the last hit up or you are going to get Thunder gimped. True story.

You can't punish him if you get hit by it, in which case you should prepare from more Thunder Jolt spam. The only chances you have for a punish is if you shield it and use the method above or he misses. That's about it.
 

OneWingedAngelo1

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Pikachu uses down smash.

1. Shield it
2. Eat about half of the attack with your shield
3. Spot dodge the last half
4. Free D-smash, grab, etc.
5. <3 Happy Lucario

If you are being hit by it, Smash DI left really quick, then right. You pop out almost every time. You can quarter circle DI out of it easily too, just be sure you don't DI the last hit up or you are going to get Thunder gimped. True story.

You can't punish him if you get hit by it, in which case you should prepare from more Thunder Jolt spam. The only chances you have for a punish is if you shield it and use the method above or he misses. That's about it.
Thank you Blood Hawk that was very useful

Oh Timbers I asked if you even play any good Pikachus...
 

Timbers

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Outside of a few tourney sets, no.

Friendlies with Anther, but that was over wifi.

Unless the pro pikas somehow managed to cut dsmash afterlag by a huge margin, I think it's irrelevant.
 

Zero_Gamer

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I've fought an exceptionally good Pikachu at a tournament, the thing does not work. I beat him, but it was a really good match, at the time, I didn't know Pikachu could CG everyone with his Fthrow.
 

Alus

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Bump...

im confused about some things... im not going to list all of them at the same time now because i dont have the time atm...

1: Why try to DT his Dsmash? is it worth a attempt when you can dair or fsmash then? (if you can that is)

2: how are his projectiles useless on battle field? having thunder constantly move around platforms can cause problems for a lucario trying to nail a Fair or Uair...

3: well... this one isnt a good question but may i suggest to never play pika on lylayt? his projectile is devistating there... they are invulnerable to the tilts of lylat as well... and your gey little charged aurasphere will not mean much on that map because if pika wants to dodge he can simply use quick attack up or down... not that he couldnt just simply shield it or the fact that the tilt on lylat could mess it up...
 

Timbers

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I like just read this entry.

Jeepy, when you get the chance, just remove everything about DT. DTing thunder is a worthless cause. First reason being that you're not going to hit him with DT anyways, second being the startup lag on DT and if he thunders before your active frames come out, he's getting a thunder gimp on you.

All of Pika's moves have very low startup lag on them, with plenty of afterlag. If you're in a position to punish him, do it with fsmash or something.
 

phi1ny3

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@ Hawk: lol, no kidding.

Pika can't CG everyone, and lucario is one of those he can't, iirc. You have enough time to do something, a.though his dthrow can also CG a few people (like the space animals), iirc.
 
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