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Counterpicking Made Easy

deepseadiva

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Knowing your enemy and how they will react to their environment could be the deciding factor in whether victory is a sure thing or something almost unobtainable. Below, a working list of all the characters in Brawl and their general consensus on what are their 3 best and 3 worst stages. The easy way to counterpick!

Please help contribute to the empty spaces or correct existing ones.

:bowser2: Bowser
Best: Norfair, Battlefield, Castle Siege
Worst: Jungle Japes, Brinstar

:falcon: Captain Falcon
Best: Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium 1, Norfair
Worst: Final Destination, Smashville, Jungle Japes

:diddy: Diddy Kong
Best: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville
Worst: Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise

:dk2: Donkey Kong
Best: Brinstar, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise

:falco: Falco
Best: Jungle Japes, Final Destination, Smashville
Worst: Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Luigi's Mansion

:fox: Fox
Best: Smashville, Final Destination
Worst: Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Luigi's Mansion

:gw: Game & Watch
Best: Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens, Norfair
Worst: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Luigi's Mansion

:ganondorf: Ganondorf
Best: Pirate Ship, Norfair, Brinstar
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Port Town Aero Drive

:popo: Ice Climbers
Best: Final Destination, Smashville, Pictochat
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair

:ike: Ike
Best: Green Greens, Pirate Ship, Norfair
Worst: Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion

:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff
Best: Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon, Smashville
Worst: Green Greens

:dedede: King Dedede
Best: Green Greens, Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino Plaza
Worst: Jungle Japes, Brinstar, Norfair

:kirby2: Kirby
Best: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza
Worst: Pirate Ship, Yoshi's Island (Melee)

:link2: Link
Best: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Smashville
Worst: Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes

:lucario: Lucario
Best: Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon
Worst: Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise

:lucas: Lucas
Best: Norfair, Brinstar, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island

:luigi2: Luigi
Best: Brinstar, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon
Worst: Final Destination, Jungle Japes

:mario2: Mario
Best: Yoshi's Island, Smashville, Battlefield
Worst: Jungle Japes, Pirate Ship

:marth: Marth
Best: Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Norfair
Worst: Brinstar, Jungle Japes

:metaknight: Meta Knight
Best: Luigi's Mansion, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza
Worst: Yoshi's Island (Melee), Green Greens, Final Destination

:ness2: Ness
Best: Delfino Plaza, Brinstar, Pirate Ship
Worst: Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Island (Melee)

:olimar: Olimar
Best: Yoshi's Island (Melee), Halberd, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon

:peach: Peach
Best: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar
Worst: Rainbow Cruise

:pikachu2: Pikachu
Best: Norfair, Final Destination, Smashville
Worst: Luigi's Mansion, Battlefield

:pit: Pit
Best: Norfair, Lylat Cruise, Final Destination
Worst: Pokemon Stadium 1

:pt: Pokémon Trainer
Best: Brinstar, Norfair, Pictochat
Worst: Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes

:squirtle: Squirtle
Best: Brinstar, Norfair, Battlefield
Worst: Jungle Japes, Pokemon Stadium 2, Pictochat

:ivysaur: Ivysaur
Best: Norfair, Brinstar, Green Greens
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Port Town Aero Drive

:charizard: Charizard
Best: Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 1, Castle Siege
Worst: Norfair, Battlefield

:rob: R.O.B.
Best: Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes
Worst: Distant Planet, Norfair, Brinstar

:samus2: Samus
Best: Battlefield, Final Destination
Worst: Jungle Japes, Yoshi's Island

:shiek: Sheik
Best: Battlefield, Halberd
Worst: Jungle Japes

:snake: Snake
Best: Norfair, Halberd, Smashville
Worst: Jungle Japes

:sonic: Sonic
Best: Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island
Worst: Brinstar

:toonlink: Toon Link
Best: Rainbow Cruise, Pirate Ship
Worst: Castle Siege, Luigi's Mansion

:warioc: Wario
Best: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon
Worst: Final Destination

:wolf: Wolf
Best: Smashville, Yoshi's Island
Worst: Lylat Cruise, Frigate Orpheon

:yoshi2: Yoshi
Best: Halberd, Final Destination, Rainbow Cruise
Worst: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Frigate Orpheon

:zelda: Zelda
Best: Battlefield, Luigi's Mansion, Smashville
Worst: Lylat Cruise, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise

:zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit Samus
Best: Pokemon Stadium 1, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield,
Worst: Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon, Castle Siege

Keep in mind this is just a general outlook on how characters do on specific stages - not to mention a democratic one. To truly excel in choosing the correct counterpick against any character or player look at things personally and carefully; don't blindly follow a list.

I'll only list stages Counter-Banned and up.
Here's the official list of legal stages: SBR Recommended Rule List v2.0: Brawl.

I also recommend watching this: The Art of Counterpicking Stages.
 

Katakiri

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Rainbow Cruise is definitly the worst stage for Sonic. (No room to run)
And I'm pretty sure Green Greens is the worst for Marth.
 

peeup

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Delfino plaza is certainly not the best stage for DK. Pokemon Stadium 1 is, its very easy to stage spike with the cargo toss, and the terrain can discourage camping; campers give DK a hard time.
 

Sosuke

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I like this thread.
Like a lot.
Thank you.
 

SuSa

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Sheik-Best- Battllefield - Reason: She has a good aerial game, with the platforms you can play many mindgames, Sheik may recover from nearly anywhere as long as she isn't edgehogged. The platforms help her play mindgames with the needles, if an enemy is on the platform above you and you upsmash, so far for me its been a 100% "sweetspotted" (I used that term loosely) up-smash and is powerful. Her Teleports can hit people on the platforms as well. she can more easily gimp (and sometimes KO) and recover here.

Zelda- Best-Smashville - Reason: small enough to actually spike with her, and her sweespot kick has an easier time KO'ing then Final D, plus she can recover from basically any point in the stage including a "Din's Fire Recovery" and still be saved by the platform if they try to edgehog, if you want to say FD then I guess it depends more on if you use Dins Fire more :)

I don't really have any "worst" picks, because they both do good on neutral stages, and I haven't really played any matches with counterpicks.
 

_Phloat_

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I would say you should definitely change Game and Watch's best stage from Yoshi's Story to Rainbow Cruise. I have never heard that he is actually good at yoshi story (Besides his character that is good anywhere) he really doesn't have that much going for him there.


Rainbow Cruise is an amazing GaW stage, and many good GaW's counterpick it so they can have a great advantage.
 

deepseadiva

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Most of the information was gathered by scavenging through each of the character boards, mainly guides and "best stage" threads. You can see some of the boards didn't have these - some not even a guide. So forgive me for some of the misinformation at the moment.
 

AlexX

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Battlefield is probably the best STARTER stage for Ike, but I wouldn't say it's the best possible. I believe Corneria gets that award.

I also fail to see how Jungle Japes is the worst for him...
 

deepseadiva

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Does anyone mind linking me to an official list of legal counterpicks? I want to play as my Sheik/Zelda on them versing different people, to get a feel for which I do horrid on.
It's the first link at the bottom of the OP.
 

deepseadiva

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I'll just give everyone a friendly reminder that giving reasons always lends your posts more credibility. Especially when challenging something already written. >_>
 

x9whitey9x

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Lucas
If by Brinstar you mean Norfair as his best stage, then I'd be more inclined to agree. Multiple platforms makes his snake recovery so much better, and it has enough levels that he can't be outcamped.
For worst, Luigi's Mansion should be replaced by, well, anything else. Lucas has huge advantages on the Mansion. He can extend the duration of his D-smash by using it on the pillars, and he can get rid of attack degradation by PK Fire at the pillars, too. I personally think Lucas is worse off on FD than the Mansion.
 

NintenJoe

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I'm going to have to say that Link's best stage is Norfair. If Link battle's a character without versitile projectiles, (Peach's turnips, Toon Link's bombs) then he has an advantage right from the start. Link can also plant bombs on platforms, which gives him more of an edge. In the unlikely situation that Link's spam doesn't work, his utilt and usmash both go through the platform's of the stages. This stage also doesn't have a lot of room for recovery, so even if Link gets knocked off the stage, it's likely that he will either die instantly or recover.

As for Link's worst, I'm going to say Luigi's Mansion. Unless Link destroys the mansion as quickly as possible, it's likely that he will be arrow and boomerang-less for the larger portion of the match.
 

Pierce7d

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Marth doesn't really fail anywhere, and his recovery options are amazing on GG, with close death lines for some really awesome tipper K.O.s. Why do you say that's his worst? In fact, it lets Marth camp!

Wouldn't Diddy do worse on Jungle Japes since his recovery can't charge in the water, and he can't abuse banana game with different platforms?

Ganon epic fails on Rainbow Cruise.

I can't see Jigglypuff liking Corneria, as she's the lightest character in the game, and it has retardedly close death lines.

For the same reason as the Spacies, Lylat owns Zelda.

I'm going to have to say that Link's best stage is Norfair. If Link battle's a character without versitile projectiles, (Peach's turnips, Toon Link's bombs) then he has an advantage right from the start. Link can also plant bombs on platforms, which gives him more of an edge. In the unlikely situation that Link's spam doesn't work, his utilt and usmash both go through the platform's of the stages. This stage also doesn't have a lot of room for recovery, so even if Link gets knocked off the stage, it's likely that he will either die instantly or recover.

As for Link's worst, I'm going to say Luigi's Mansion. Unless Link destroys the mansion as quickly as possible, it's likely that he will be arrow and boomerang-less for the larger portion of the match.
I agree. Plus, Link's clawshot helps a lot.
 

IceDX

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RAINBOW CRUISE ISN´T THE WORST 4 SONIC ..... GREEN GREENS IS FROM MY POINT OF VIEW ANYWAY
btw sorry fo the caps

BC rainbow cruise gives sonic gives sonic gimping options , im also awere that a bad sonic will easily duie here but lets not get into that... wile if lets say myself if im playing on green greens as sonic i have no way of spindashing bc there ist enough space 4 it so thats taking away sonics best movement/approch option
 

Serris

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I'd say Final Destination is Samus's best stage, because she can spam her missiles and charge shots effectively there. Not to mention the wide open space just begs for some z-air.
 

AlexX

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Rainbow cruise is Ike's worst stage and for the best it maybe Norfair or Battle field.
Ike's best stage is probably Corneria, and I fail to see how Rainbow Cruise is so bad. I never have an issue keeping up with the stage, and the part with walk-off ledges is a boon more than harmful since Ike then doesn't have to worry too strongly about his poor recovery.
 

deepseadiva

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For worst, Luigi's Mansion should be replaced by, well, anything else. Lucas has huge advantages on the Mansion. He can extend the duration of his D-smash by using it on the pillars, and he can get rid of attack degradation by PK Fire at the pillars, too. I personally think Lucas is worse off on FD than the Mansion.
I've removed it for now, but doesn't Luigi's pillars completly ruin Lucas's PK Fire? That's what I read on the Lucas boards anyway. It seems to me he relies on the move heavily. Putting an intangible object between the opponent and Lucas that completly blocks it's effects would be bad for Lucas wouldn't it?

And the stuff about attack degradation works in favor of ALL the characters, no?
 

Pink-eye

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ZSS has norfair as her friend. platforms so you cant get gimped. and lack of camping zone for oppenents, and using the whip 2 platforms under someone and hitting them still FTW :)

just sayin
 

Affinity

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King Dedede's best stage is Green Greens IMO.

4 walls for infinites, bombs can be set off by his F-tilt without D3 being hurt, and other things I can't remember right now.
 

x9whitey9x

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I've removed it for now, but doesn't Luigi's pillars completly ruin Lucas's PK Fire? That's what I read on the Lucas boards anyway. It seems to me he relies on the move heavily. Putting an intangible object between the opponent and Lucas that completly blocks it's effects would be bad for Lucas wouldn't it?

And the stuff about attack degradation works in favor of ALL the characters, no?
If you play Lucas worth half a crap you do not heavily rely on any moves. Not trying to be a jerk, but it's true.
 

Jigglymaster

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Luigi's Mansion is not BY FAR Jiggly's Best Stage.

Its Delfino Plaza. Acts like mute city. U can shark there. You have amazing recovery abilities when the stage leaves and your not on it. And the water you can CANCEL REST.

Also Diddy Kong's Worst Stage is Norfair. Diddy HATES platforms and thats all that stage is. There isn't even ENOUGH ROOM to do a glide toss.
 

Meadow

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I think Ness's worst stage is probably Yoshi's Island (Melee). Seeing as Ness can't use PK Thunder very well there, and the fact that if he falls into the pit in the center, the tight space won't allow him to recover. The stage design is also a bit awkward for him, seeing as most of his tilts don't hit properly there.

But those are just my thoughts; I don't main Ness.
 
D

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link's is totally fcking wrong

RC is has been his best stage since melee and it will stay that way for a long time

as far as his worst stage goes its probably lylat cruise or frigate orpheon
 

deepseadiva

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Would a DDD main mind telling me why DP is his best stage?

I'd think PS1 would be better for him, but maybe I missed something...
Apparently it's his best starter due to the various walls and walk-offs he can take easy advantage of. Plus the main platform allows him to recover more easily.

If you play Lucas worth half a crap you do not heavily rely on any moves. Not trying to be a jerk, but it's true.
Okay, but PK Fire is still a big part of his game right? This is all theory of course - I myself do not play Lucas even half a crap. :p

link's is totally fcking wrong

RC is has been his best stage since melee and it will stay that way for a long time

as far as his worst stage goes its probably lylat cruise or frigate orpheon
Please elaborate.
 

Leacero

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Captain Falcon's best: Distant Planet. The general structure of the stage grants him numerous avenues for attack and his recovery is less gimpable. Battling on the left side slope allows Falcon to get easy sweet spotted short hop knees and tech chase f-throws on the same slope can lead to low % KO off the edge.
 
D

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Link's best stage is Rainbow cruise because it allows him to do the one thing he's good at, defense. Since the stage is moving both players constantly have to regain their footing, this is where link's projectiles fall into play. Try to stand on a platform without getting a bomb or boomerang shoved down your throat. Even in the second part of the map all the platforms allow link to run away and spam. Even if you don't spam the obstacles constantly give you extra options to escape, attack etc. Plus the two walls in the stage allow link to jab lock you, which will happen to you if you're playing a good link.

LC and FO are link's worst stages because of the edges. LC's ledges constantly gay you because of the tilting. FO doesn't have a edge on the right side of the stage for the first few minutes meaning uber-gimpage at low %'s.
 

deepseadiva

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Alright, so Rainbow Cruise sounds like a better counterpick over Norfair, but what about his worst?

What would be worse for Link:
projectile negation on Luigi's Mansion or more negative gimp opportunities on Lylat and Frigate?
 
D

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Whoever said Jungle Japes was best for Peach needs their head examined. That stage is absolutely garbage for her, especially when fighting a top-tier like Falco. Needless to say, if you get in the water, Peach is basically ****ed. Her 2nd-jump is pitiful.

In the same sense, Falco's best stage is easily Jungle Japes, because of the fact that he won't die to the current at all, and his forward-B snaps to any edge with ease.

MK's best is easily Luigi's.
 

deepseadiva

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Whoever said Jungle Japes was best for Peach needs their head examined. That stage is absolutely garbage for her, especially when fighting a top-tier like Falco. Needless to say, if you get in the water, Peach is basically ****ed. Her 2nd-jump is pitiful.
Oh how I lol'd.
Being both a Peach main and a frequenter to the always interesting Peach boards, Jungle Japes offers Peach HUGE advantages. Mainly the water and the high roof (second highest in the game I think). Thing is the stage offers a rather large advantage to characters with a good horizontal recovery; Peach gets her float back from falling in the water, and thus the best horizontal recovery in the game.

And being as she is so light, the high ceiling only helps her survive to insane (at least for Peach) percents.

Although, against Falco, the match-up would be slightly tilted toward him - due to the laser spam.
 
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