Grab Breaks and how to use them for fun and profit

Er, so where's the fun/profit part? Most of this is common knowledge already anyways, at least on the Marth subforum.

yeah, nothing really new here...
i was hoping for fun and profit XD.

I've figured these out on my own, but didnt know to much about the feet thing. I've really started to like the jumping breaks, it puts you in a great position to punish and puts alot of pressure on the opponent(unless theyre those floaty characters like Lucario and Samus)

Yeah, this is like old... there was no fun/profit listed.

The profit is the setups that it can deal on certain characters. The jab release is used to infinite Squirtle, Ness, Lucas, and Wario. The jab release also sets up for characters like Wario to be hit by a powerful aerial, typically the Fair. Both forms of release (jumping release and sliding release) can be manipulated on Wario very easily for a kill move because he has a laggy jump release that puts him very close to the opponent and his slide release is laggy and short-distanced so you can follow up with an Ftilt or, if the character has a good one, Fsmash. Some characters, like Charizard, can grab the opponent again after the sliding release because his grab range is so good, but, for some characters, this can only be initiated as long as the opponent doesn't DI the grab break, DI'ing the grab break only lets you slide a very slightly longer distance than not DI'd, but many times the opponent will be mashing the buttons to escape quickly instead of DI, in which case it will allow either Grab - release - Grab (if opponent is mashing) or a grab with a large number of jabs then a throw (if opponent is observed to be DI'ing instead. Squirtle can follow up a sliding release with his AAA attack.

You can also abuse the sliding release in doubles to form a sort of wobble-like effect. As long as you cause the opponent to perform a sliding release, your teammate, when positioned in front of the person initiating the grab, can catch the opponent during the break and jab and then they can repeat this continously forever. Keep in mind that this is mostly only useful during 2v1. This is most easily performed by a team of Lucario because the opponent will perform a sliding release for as long as he is on fire and he has the fastest grab jab in the game. Wolf is also an easy one.

???
Profit?

Yeah, thats old...

Thanks for clearing it up Ankoku. You answered some questions I've had, thinking about this grab-release crud on wario. As for the profit part, there's no formula for how to abuse the grab releases. He left it open guys.

Have u worked on breaking out as soon as ur grabbed??? cuz many times, by accident, i've broken out b4 i've even been hit when my damage has been close or over 100%. Not sure how to do it. I'm pretty sure it works with the A button but besides that i dont know much else

that's the auto break. It happens when you are on moving platforms, near an edge, or for some reason, the game doesn't want to process the grab because something is making it complicated. It requires no input from you, A was a coincidence.

Well sometimes I think if the terrain is funny or you're on something that's moving it can alter the way you're held in the grab but that's probably not what you're thinking of....

EDIT: guy above me knows it seems

Not exactly pops. If you press A the instant someone grabs you, you'll jump from the grab. It's been a discussion topic in the mario boards recently to prevent DDD from grabbing.

Edit: I couldn't find the thread I mentioned. :/ Well, it might have been for Samus or Dk or someone that DDD's infinite works on.

V- I'm not sure. I know it's there though.

i'm pretty sure its possible but what is the timing for it? does it work 100% of the time? Only A?

Perhaps u could just show me the thread?

Snake's grab forces an aerial release against every character regardless of how their feet are positioned in relation to the ground.

This is very helpful for less experienced smashers. Nice work Ankoku.

marth gets a garanteed nair from the release of a jumper right?

I have done some research into forced jump breaks on flat ground, and here's what I found. Wario fans, get ready to cry.

The following characters hold Wario over the ground and have an infinte on him (yes, I tested the regrab too):

Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Captain Falcon, Ivysaur, Marth, Ike, Snake

I did this in training mode so stale moves isn't accounted for; that might mess it up for the characters who have pretty small windows to get the regrab (the smallest windows belong to Wario, Zelda, Ivysaur, and Snake). To be clear, you absolutely do not regrab at the first opportunity. You will whiff the grab and let Wario out. You time it so you hit Wario at the first moment as he is coming down. The timing with every character is a little different; this combo will take practice.

Be cautioned on this that doing grab attacks with a character other than Yoshi while they are about to break out gives them a chance to do a ground break and escape the infinite. That means it's not really going to be practical for anything but a stall at ridiculously low percentages (where you can't get in a grab attack early), and it will be a pretty slow combo at first as you can only hit with one grab attack before you must volutarily stop attacking. It would be awesome if some more people did some more testing to verify my results, but I'm pretty sure that at least most of those characters really can infinite Wario which will probably ruin him for serious play.

I also tested a little with Meta Knight. Meta Knight is known to be chainable by Yoshi so his jump break is fairly exploitable. The list of characters who can force Meta Knight to jump break is exactly identical to the list for Wario. Some of them will be able to force a chain across stages (and off walk-offs that don't have low platforms like the ones on Mario Circuit over them) with dash grabs. Figuring out exactly who it is forced for is complicated, but I am pretty sure Captain Falcon at least can land the regrab (while it doesn't seem possible at all with Peach).

I am pretty sure Olimar is the shortest character, and I'm pretty sure character height is indirectly what controls which characters can force you to be held in the air (it's how low you dangle when grabbed). The only characters who hold Olimar up who don't also hold up Meta Knight and Wario are King Dedede and Samus. I checked if King Dedede and Samus could hold up several other suspects for the shortest character (Kirby, Mr. Game & Watch, Squirtle, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff) and they couldn't except in the case of King Dedede being able to hold up Jigglypuff (but Samus can't hold her up). I'm posting this last bit to help those who want to do more research; you can ignore the following characters as the offensive characters when testing how this works over flat ground:

Mario, Luigi, Diddy Kong, Link, Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby, Meta Knight, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Pikachu, Squirtle, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game & Watch, Sonic

These characters cannot force a jump break against anyone on flat ground.

Amazing Ampharos said:

Stuff.

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Did you test with a HUMAN? Only Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Zelda, Ganondorf, ZSS, Falcon, and Ike can.

DK, Wario, Sheik, and Ivysaur's grabs are just too low, and Wario can escape.

Marth is too wide, and Wario can just footstool to escape.

Snake holds him too high, so He can escape.

I can't say I did, but my inspection of Wario's animations suggested he was never leaving the jump break animation in any case (that animation meaning he accepts absolutely no inputs to my knowledge). You are posting like you have done thorough research into the matter, and it would be great if we could get more scientific. I know academically that jump break shenanigans will form true combos if you can hit them before their jump break animation ends, but obviously it's really hard to measure that when it is close.

I'm mostly trying to prod for what sort of windows we are talking about here. The problem with seeing if a human can get out of another human doing it is that it doesn't account for human error on the part of the person doing it which, in the case of extremely difficult infinites, is very likely. Given how the grabs gradually get harder to land as you deal with different characters, I would suggest that if not all characters can regrab that at least one of them is going to have some nonsense like an infinite that requires frame perfect timing (which I, frankly, am not equipped to test). On the other side of things, how long are you saying Wario has to get out of Sheik's release grab? That too is going to be something where single frames matter. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out I was wrong and that some of the characters can't truly infinite Wario, but the windows are going to be very tight on the border cases for sure.

Your point on Marth just confuses me to be honest. Are you saying there's a window during a jump break during which you can do a footstool jump but nothing else? I know footstooling is weird (you can footstool your ally with team attack off!), but it would be a whole new sort of breakthrough if you could do footstools during certain animations in which literally no other inputs were accepted. I'm really just trying to ask what sort of mechanics your research (or the research you have been reading) has uncovered in regard to this footstool.

I can't explain exactly where Wario has recontrol after the breakout animation. just grab Wario, then tap jump with a 2nd controller repeatedly to see when he regains control. It's just the point where Wario recovers is too high for the character's I've listed, but not high enough for those 8.

You kinda have to do an human element here. This isn't Mythbusters. CPU's will not try to escape, while a human player will very much will. Wario is the only one that goes straight up, so the mechanics are unique to him, and you can find some sort of formula or exploit to use on the other characters. For Sheik and the others, all Wario needs to do is just Airdodge at the time he recovers. That simple.

And there is really nothing special about Marth. Marth just holds him too close, and his stance is too wide.

Mmac said:

This isn't Mythbusters.

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Hmmm, I wonder who the Jamie and Adam of Smashbros would be.

I'm actually really glad that you already did the research on this Mmac. Otherwise that other guy would have scared the crap out of me again.