hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I think it's best as a Luigi board community get to know what Luigi's weaknesses and know how to confront and overcome them so that we won't have to worry about it in our game. There's no point in leaving weaknesses aside. I'll give a rundown on all of the Luigi's weaknesses that I can think of. Feel free to post any other weaknesses that I haven't included.
I'll do all my best to find ways to to overcome these weaknesses and as well you can post another way in overcoming them. So please everyone put some ideas and thoughts into it and hopefully progress with Luigi's meta-game
Let's get started shall we?
Sucks against campers
I thought we'd get a better insight on this. We all know what kind of campers there are. They can play a effective defensive game and force Luigi to approach them. With Luigi's approachs being limited, this could pose a threat. Such as let's say ICs for example. They can spam their iceblocks faster then you due to that Nana can use as well. It will most likely force you to approach, and run in without being careful and getting shieldgrabbed and getting infinited to the pits of hell. Also I'd pick stages with platforms as well so that you can avoid projectile spam, control the platforms and look for a opening to start off combos or punish them badly.
6/23/09
This is still a somewhat a weakness, but not as bad before. Powershielding a very vital part of Luigi's game really erases this. Walk>PS lets us get inside slowly depending on our foe. If you've read on my how to get better luigi guide, you'd know you can pull ALOT of things from doing a walking to a PS. Campers majority of the time LOVE TO SPAM PROJECTILES (Snake is a different beingbtw) Though aircamping we will need to get into since many characters are rising in this category. Will fix abit later; grateful if anyone can add to this category since our meta-game has changed and campers aren't crazy hard as before.
Predictable recovery
Yeah we all know Luigi's god tier material for his crazy insane recovery. But note that, it's so repetitive that, Luigi has no anti-ledgeguard tools to be 100% sure that he'll make on to the stage alive without getting ko'd or slaughtered. Compared to his older brother, Mario, he has a more reliable fireball and a cape just incase he'll be gimped. But on behalf of Luigi, if hes hit offstage, in a more digonally upper right or left angle, it'd most likely to charge a green missle to aim for that sweetspot. But a good ledgeguarder such as Falco who has a really good Bair, his hitbox lasts a while just enough to ko you while in a green missle. We all also know the insane vertical height Luigi can gain with the tornado. I mean sure it's great and all but all they have to do is throw a projectile like ICs' iceblock or stage spike you and your pretty much screwed over also losing your second jump as well.
I really can't think of anything but just try to make yourself unpredictable so you won't be punished.
Crap projectile
As I said stated above earlier. Luigi's projectile can pretty much cancel any other projectile except for the ones that can be charged (Ex: Lucario , Samus). It travels in a parallel way and travels slowly but really, you can't effectively play defensive or have safe approachs with it. Mario can camp alot better with his fireball. Luigi's fireball isn't a great anti-ledgeguard tool.
Well since he does have a crap projectile it still great for pressuring for those who don't have a projectile (ex Ike and MK) Luigi's fireball still plays a big role in his moveset and can be firelock'd with.
Sucks nuts on the ledge
Luigi's get up attacks are so unreliable. All the oppennent has to do is just space himself out of Luigi's range and your options are very limited. Not to mention the get up attack when Luigi's 100%+ is shortranged, and slow. A ledgehop Fair sucks nuts too since its so short on range. If you roll your screwed in the nuts. The best you can do is a fireball ledgehop stall so that your oppenent will be forced to come and try to gimp you off the stage. Or you can try a ledgehop to a rising tornado so you'll be out of range but due to Luigi's floatyiness and his ability to get back to the stage safely, you might be punished. Also you can try to mindgame them by simply letting go of the edge and firejumppunch or a regular jump to regrab the edge and repeat so that way they'll be caught off guard.
Total sucks bawls in moving in the air
Luigi's slowsauce and 2nd slowest in terms of aerial movement nuff said'
Unreliable spikes.
Luigi has 3 spikes but all situational and highly unreliable. He has the taunt spike. Unless you get lucky, then gg to you. He has a dtilt spike very small hitbox. Hell, what kind of oppenent stays on the edge that frikken long!?. He has the Dair spike. This is probably best spike but totally unreliable. It has a small hitbox somewhere behind him where he twirls his arms. Master this you'll be shining great.
Lacks range
He really does.. except for his Bair though. People who can outrange him in terms of air and ground *coughsDKcoughs* then you'll more likely to go defensive which Luigi kinda lacks in. The best way, is to look for a opening and punish.
The essence of shieldgrabbing your oppenent
Well we all know Luigi's low traction right? Whenever he takes a full blown powerful hit while having your shield up, he'll slide away from his/her oppenent making you unable to shieldgrab. Shield grabbing could mean life or death, win or lose match. Powershielding is highly important for Luigi's game because if your potentally outspaced when he gets hit while shielding. This may even lead to him off the edge and you don't wanna deal with some characters off the edge (Hi Mario). I guess power shielding and spacing is best way for this weakness.
Um I honestly can't tell if we've fixed this or not lol. Cause my point in powershielding still stands and powershielding can just 80% of the time erase that "sliding away " feature. Again read my how to get better luigi guide under PSing guide. Also we have better OOS options if we don't get a shield grab lol.
Getting shieldgrabbed sucks effin d**k!!
It's similar to the one I said above but it's with you getting shieldgrabbed. Srsly, once your shieldgrabbed from going into combo demon mode, your screwed in the *** big time. Shieldgrabbing a Luigi's Nair hurts big time since alot of Luigi's like to to fit 2 aerials in a SH and being as Nair is a great combo starter in the 2nd aerial, your stopped in your tracks in comboing them. What I like to do is, SH Dair and watch carefully if they did shield the Dair even before you were going to do it, I'd just airdodge away from them so that I won't get punished. So Dair to a airdodge DI-ing away from them works wonders for me.
Poor defensive ground game
Yeah, there are those times where you'll have to be defensive on the ground (coughsMKcoughs). Luigi isn't the greatest at that. He has a fireball, sometimes a Ftilt, a dtilt you have to be in close range to trip them. Tornado isn't great defensive only best as offstage gimp tool or a approach or set them up in the air. The only best defensive ground game I can think of is probably a SH fireballs and decents ftilts and maybe some occasional Dsmashs and alot of shield grabbing. Anyone with a surperior offensive ground game (Dk >.>) will **** you hands down unless you do something about it.
Um yeah, it's still a weakness compared to others, but NOT TOO DRASTIC lol. I mean, we have a number of OOS options in particular, OOS jab comes to mind, our FFAD/buffering combines our air game to ground game, particularly the useful sliding jab, and alot of sliding moves lol. Sliding Dsmash/Fsmash, crawldashing (formindgames <3) So techanically our offensive game, is our defensive game as well.
6/23/09
Infinites were meant to be banned duh
Yes.. I'm sorry but ICs and D3 does have a infinite on Luigi and there's not much you can do about it. Mostly playing patient, defensive game, spacing and not getting grab is the only vital things.
Um yeah, maybe it's just in NY and hopefully for all other states except for Polmex cause FL dun ban infinites at all LOL. jk ily <3. But yeah, D3 infinite shouldn't really be a weakness ONLY IN TOURNEY WISE IF THEY BANNED IT OKAY. I really don't know about ICs infinites but I'm assuming it's banned for now, but someone will correct me on this.
6/23/09
Omg I got punished for doing a shoryuken! NUBSZ!
Yeah pretty much says it all. If you miss with upb shoryuken, don't expect to be happy and let you off. You'll be totally open for punishment unless you quickly DI to a platform or DI-ing and fastfalling to a edge to grab so you'd have the invicibility frames.
This is still a weakness, but after Magus completing his unblockable/inescapable follow up jabs, we have so many mindgames to pull a shoryuken off. Combining mindgames (overly use bad use word tbh atm) we really shouldn't be getting punished for a upb. The things we do with a jab (meat of luigis game) should always keep our foe guessing and may be unblockable for some chars. But otherwise, using it in a unthinkable manner WILL DEFINITELY get you punished. Also remember that stages/time/character/staleness what not, should be taken accounted for.
6/23/09
Mk Bl0wz a$$ m4n!!
That we all know. That's why we're forced to go with a secondary unless you have the man power to take out this little blue pipsqueak behind the mask.
edit: um yeah we can really push this matchup to 35/65 or 4/6 Mk but that'd be just dumb LOL this will always be a weakness as soon further in the future, the luigi metagame will corrupt and many will leave him helpless because of the mk matchup. so yeah **** u mks ur gona **** us up cuz of ur brokenness -.-
6/23/09
Alright so can anyone think of anything else? I'm pretty sure I missed some key ideas on his weaknesses. So you guys have any other ways to overcome the green machine's weaknesses?
Discuss nao.
I'll do all my best to find ways to to overcome these weaknesses and as well you can post another way in overcoming them. So please everyone put some ideas and thoughts into it and hopefully progress with Luigi's meta-game
Let's get started shall we?
I thought we'd get a better insight on this. We all know what kind of campers there are. They can play a effective defensive game and force Luigi to approach them. With Luigi's approachs being limited, this could pose a threat. Such as let's say ICs for example. They can spam their iceblocks faster then you due to that Nana can use as well. It will most likely force you to approach, and run in without being careful and getting shieldgrabbed and getting infinited to the pits of hell. Also I'd pick stages with platforms as well so that you can avoid projectile spam, control the platforms and look for a opening to start off combos or punish them badly.
6/23/09
This is still a somewhat a weakness, but not as bad before. Powershielding a very vital part of Luigi's game really erases this. Walk>PS lets us get inside slowly depending on our foe. If you've read on my how to get better luigi guide, you'd know you can pull ALOT of things from doing a walking to a PS. Campers majority of the time LOVE TO SPAM PROJECTILES (Snake is a different beingbtw) Though aircamping we will need to get into since many characters are rising in this category. Will fix abit later; grateful if anyone can add to this category since our meta-game has changed and campers aren't crazy hard as before.
Predictable recovery
Yeah we all know Luigi's god tier material for his crazy insane recovery. But note that, it's so repetitive that, Luigi has no anti-ledgeguard tools to be 100% sure that he'll make on to the stage alive without getting ko'd or slaughtered. Compared to his older brother, Mario, he has a more reliable fireball and a cape just incase he'll be gimped. But on behalf of Luigi, if hes hit offstage, in a more digonally upper right or left angle, it'd most likely to charge a green missle to aim for that sweetspot. But a good ledgeguarder such as Falco who has a really good Bair, his hitbox lasts a while just enough to ko you while in a green missle. We all also know the insane vertical height Luigi can gain with the tornado. I mean sure it's great and all but all they have to do is throw a projectile like ICs' iceblock or stage spike you and your pretty much screwed over also losing your second jump as well.
I really can't think of anything but just try to make yourself unpredictable so you won't be punished.
Crap projectile
As I said stated above earlier. Luigi's projectile can pretty much cancel any other projectile except for the ones that can be charged (Ex: Lucario , Samus). It travels in a parallel way and travels slowly but really, you can't effectively play defensive or have safe approachs with it. Mario can camp alot better with his fireball. Luigi's fireball isn't a great anti-ledgeguard tool.
Well since he does have a crap projectile it still great for pressuring for those who don't have a projectile (ex Ike and MK) Luigi's fireball still plays a big role in his moveset and can be firelock'd with.
Sucks nuts on the ledge
Luigi's get up attacks are so unreliable. All the oppennent has to do is just space himself out of Luigi's range and your options are very limited. Not to mention the get up attack when Luigi's 100%+ is shortranged, and slow. A ledgehop Fair sucks nuts too since its so short on range. If you roll your screwed in the nuts. The best you can do is a fireball ledgehop stall so that your oppenent will be forced to come and try to gimp you off the stage. Or you can try a ledgehop to a rising tornado so you'll be out of range but due to Luigi's floatyiness and his ability to get back to the stage safely, you might be punished. Also you can try to mindgame them by simply letting go of the edge and firejumppunch or a regular jump to regrab the edge and repeat so that way they'll be caught off guard.
Total sucks bawls in moving in the air
Luigi's slowsauce and 2nd slowest in terms of aerial movement nuff said'
Unreliable spikes.
Luigi has 3 spikes but all situational and highly unreliable. He has the taunt spike. Unless you get lucky, then gg to you. He has a dtilt spike very small hitbox. Hell, what kind of oppenent stays on the edge that frikken long!?. He has the Dair spike. This is probably best spike but totally unreliable. It has a small hitbox somewhere behind him where he twirls his arms. Master this you'll be shining great.
Lacks range
He really does.. except for his Bair though. People who can outrange him in terms of air and ground *coughsDKcoughs* then you'll more likely to go defensive which Luigi kinda lacks in. The best way, is to look for a opening and punish.
Well we all know Luigi's low traction right? Whenever he takes a full blown powerful hit while having your shield up, he'll slide away from his/her oppenent making you unable to shieldgrab. Shield grabbing could mean life or death, win or lose match. Powershielding is highly important for Luigi's game because if your potentally outspaced when he gets hit while shielding. This may even lead to him off the edge and you don't wanna deal with some characters off the edge (Hi Mario). I guess power shielding and spacing is best way for this weakness.
Um I honestly can't tell if we've fixed this or not lol. Cause my point in powershielding still stands and powershielding can just 80% of the time erase that "sliding away " feature. Again read my how to get better luigi guide under PSing guide. Also we have better OOS options if we don't get a shield grab lol.
Getting shieldgrabbed sucks effin d**k!!
It's similar to the one I said above but it's with you getting shieldgrabbed. Srsly, once your shieldgrabbed from going into combo demon mode, your screwed in the *** big time. Shieldgrabbing a Luigi's Nair hurts big time since alot of Luigi's like to to fit 2 aerials in a SH and being as Nair is a great combo starter in the 2nd aerial, your stopped in your tracks in comboing them. What I like to do is, SH Dair and watch carefully if they did shield the Dair even before you were going to do it, I'd just airdodge away from them so that I won't get punished. So Dair to a airdodge DI-ing away from them works wonders for me.
Yeah, there are those times where you'll have to be defensive on the ground (coughsMKcoughs). Luigi isn't the greatest at that. He has a fireball, sometimes a Ftilt, a dtilt you have to be in close range to trip them. Tornado isn't great defensive only best as offstage gimp tool or a approach or set them up in the air. The only best defensive ground game I can think of is probably a SH fireballs and decents ftilts and maybe some occasional Dsmashs and alot of shield grabbing. Anyone with a surperior offensive ground game (Dk >.>) will **** you hands down unless you do something about it.
Um yeah, it's still a weakness compared to others, but NOT TOO DRASTIC lol. I mean, we have a number of OOS options in particular, OOS jab comes to mind, our FFAD/buffering combines our air game to ground game, particularly the useful sliding jab, and alot of sliding moves lol. Sliding Dsmash/Fsmash, crawldashing (formindgames <3) So techanically our offensive game, is our defensive game as well.
6/23/09
Yes.. I'm sorry but ICs and D3 does have a infinite on Luigi and there's not much you can do about it. Mostly playing patient, defensive game, spacing and not getting grab is the only vital things.
Um yeah, maybe it's just in NY and hopefully for all other states except for Polmex cause FL dun ban infinites at all LOL. jk ily <3. But yeah, D3 infinite shouldn't really be a weakness ONLY IN TOURNEY WISE IF THEY BANNED IT OKAY. I really don't know about ICs infinites but I'm assuming it's banned for now, but someone will correct me on this.
6/23/09
Yeah pretty much says it all. If you miss with upb shoryuken, don't expect to be happy and let you off. You'll be totally open for punishment unless you quickly DI to a platform or DI-ing and fastfalling to a edge to grab so you'd have the invicibility frames.
This is still a weakness, but after Magus completing his unblockable/inescapable follow up jabs, we have so many mindgames to pull a shoryuken off. Combining mindgames (overly use bad use word tbh atm) we really shouldn't be getting punished for a upb. The things we do with a jab (meat of luigis game) should always keep our foe guessing and may be unblockable for some chars. But otherwise, using it in a unthinkable manner WILL DEFINITELY get you punished. Also remember that stages/time/character/staleness what not, should be taken accounted for.
6/23/09
Mk Bl0wz a$$ m4n!!
That we all know. That's why we're forced to go with a secondary unless you have the man power to take out this little blue pipsqueak behind the mask.
edit: um yeah we can really push this matchup to 35/65 or 4/6 Mk but that'd be just dumb LOL this will always be a weakness as soon further in the future, the luigi metagame will corrupt and many will leave him helpless because of the mk matchup. so yeah **** u mks ur gona **** us up cuz of ur brokenness -.-
6/23/09
Alright so can anyone think of anything else? I'm pretty sure I missed some key ideas on his weaknesses. So you guys have any other ways to overcome the green machine's weaknesses?
Discuss nao.
