Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Ok, so Hylian asked to give him some tips on beating Marth since Roy_R has been giving him trouble. So I decided to help him out and do something educational for the community at the same time. I will post my analysis of four vids where I critiqued both players. I'm a harsh critic and very blunt, so if you are a fanboy of either player and you read something that bugs you then...oh well. Suck it up. This is for the growth and benefit of both communities. So instead of getting hung up on something I say, try to understand why I said it and you can learn something.
Now match video analysis is my specialty. So you are in for a treat.
Here we go.
Match 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=z57R65vUqr4&feature=related
First 27 seconds - From the start Hylian makes an error. He attempts to blindly rush Marth down. G&W cannot do this vs Marth. Marth has more range and speed. Even worse is that Hylian tried to rush down with fair which is a laggy and unsafe move, that is easily punishable by Marth. Roy_R does something pretty unsafe too. He does a double jump for seemingly no reason at all. If G&W had hit him he would have had less options to get away from G&W's onslaught. Still Hylian's blunder means he gets in a free hit.
00:30 to 00:48 - We see that Roy_R is doing a good job of keeping G&W near the ledge. This is solid positioning advantage that he is trying to abuse for as long as he can. Hylian however seems to be playing on Roy_R's terms. He keeps trying to hit his opponent when his number one concern should be regaining his footing and taking the fight to the center of the stage, or getting Roy_R to up against the ledge. At 00:38, he could have rolled past Roy_R, but instead jumps out of shield most likely in an attempt to attack, and he gets hit. At 00:41 he takes a risk to attempt and U-smash and gets stuffed. G&W is attacking too much when it isn't wise to do so. Thanks to Hylian's overzealousness, he loses a stock. Still he probably wouldn't have lost it, had he DIed correctly. But he probably didn't expect to get hit again.
00:57 - Dumb mistake on Roy_R's part. He shouldn't have DIed forward so much when he was tumbling.
01:03 - I think Hylian could have avoided a shield grab had he up bed after landing. Anyway Roy_R does an f-throw to nair, then attempts an U-smash which of course isn't guaranteed. He should have just DIed back after the Nair and went with some safe zoning instead of taking a risk like that. G&W isn't within killing percents and the stocks are even. Going for an u-smash in such a situation was foolish. But even worse is that G&W does not punish the U-smash. That was an easy grab, but Hylian lets the chance pass.
01:08 - Marth gets a bit too aggressive with his spacing and eats an U-smash.
01:10 - Hylian does well to keep Marth off balance, but he messes up with he uses Chef. That wasn't a good idea. Marth eats the hit and comes down with fair and G&W eats it. And just like that the momentum of the fight has shifted. But then Marth loses it when he Bairs and G&W is behind him so Hylian gets it right back.
01:14 - Marth gets a PS, but does not up b out of shield or even shield drop punish. Instead he opts to SH DB? Bad move. Then G&W gets a PS, but misses the chance to punish.
01:18 - Marth goes for the grab release, but as far as I know there is nothing guaranteed on it since G&W can just up b. Hylian does just that.
01:19 to 01:26 - Marth has G&W up against that ledge again and is putting pressure on him.
01:30 - Hylian make the mistake of trying to SH fair when he is already so close to Marth. Then when he is in the air he jumps when Marth is already close and gets launched way up into the air. G&W is now at a huge disadvantage. But when he comes down and Marth net's a PS, he doesn't up b out of shield and opts to roll away.
01:37 - Good stuff to Hylian here. He SH's back then bairs, but it wasn't spaced well so he eats Marth's up b.
01:41 - Roy_R messes up here. F-smash to hit a recovering opponent doesn't work in Brawl. Hylian attacks him during his recovery time, crossing him up as he does this and Roy_R is launched off the stage. Hylian has advantage briefly but attempts to attack instead of just waiting and punishing Roy_R. Roy_R however uses that chance to get back his footing and the situation is back to neutral.
01:46 - Marth messes up his spacing and is attacked during his lag time.
01:48 - Hylian takes a risk here. He is at 144% so if he misses then he is dead. Sure enough Marth air dodges and G&W is punished with an f-smash.
01:55 : Marth pressures G&W, but gets reckless with his spacing and gets shield grabbed as a result. He d-throws and guesses correctly as to which way Marth will roll, but doesn't run far enough to catch Marth. Marth gets a PS and does not up b to punish, which gives G&W the chance to shield pressure with d-tilt.
02:01 - Marth doesn't do anything wrong really, but at that range G&W can dash in with an u-smash for a kill. G&W goes under the fair for an u-smash and Marth loses the stock. That was good on Hylians part. It was a low risk, high reward scenario. Low risk because if Hylian messed up all he would eat was a fair, and high reward since Marth was within kill range for the u-smash.
02:05 - Hylian willingly moves to the ledge and waste his second jump. VERY BAD SITUATION!!!!!! Marth hits him into the air and now the fight is completely in his hands. G&W dairs to the stage which Marth honestly should have expected since it's G&W's best option. U-smash would have beaten it or just shield and then punish would have been fine. Instead Marth eats it and just like that the fight is at neutral again.
02:11- Marth pressures G&W pretty well and zones him while playing safely. G&W nairs but Marth PS's it and does not punish with up b. G&W shields instead of rolling away to distance himself and gets grabbed. He then falls for Roy_R's regrab tricks, none of which are guaranteed and he could have up bed at anytime to escape or just rolled.
02:27 - G&W goes for an f-smash and is punished on reaction by Marth.
02:35 - G&W lands behind Marth and he grabs when he should have up bed. Either that or rolled to get away from the ledge.
02:37 - G&W takes a huge risk with dash attack. Even if the dash attack would have hit it would have led to nothing really, and if shielded or PSed then he would most likely die. Plus G&W's percent is higher at this point. Marth does in fact PS the dash attack and G&W eats a tipper f-smash and dies. This match goes to Marth.
Here we see that Hylian pays the price for being aggressive. Roy_R does well overall with his zoning game and Hylian falls right into it repeatedly. Hylian also has to be more aware of stage positioning and how it affects the match-up. Roy_R needs to get better at punishing in general and using that up b out of shield. Hylian is also very risky in his play style and should take a more lad back patient approach when fighting Marth. Straight rushdown won't work. Overall Roy_R out plays him and takes advantage of his play style.
Marth 3 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNHqm3l2RE&feature=related
00:07 - Roy_R starts out aggressive and gives Hylian the opening he needs to get him with a bair. He should have DIed back as he hit with it though since he eats a fair from Marth as soon as the bair ends. G&W gets in again with a bair, but then grabs the other way when he lands. Marth punishes with f-throw to nair.
00:10 - G&W dairs and Marth could have countered, U-smashed or shielded and punished. All of these things could have been done on reaction. G&W does jab to grab, which can be jumped out and is not guaranteed, but can catch you off guard. He does a d-throw and Marth techs right as G&W d-smashes.
00:20 - Seems Hylian caught on. He up b's after the release and Roy_R gets no damage off of it. Then he dairs and gets advantage after hitting Marth.
00:31 - Hylian gets risky here with Nair into Marth's shield with no attempt to DI back to avoid retaliation. As expected he is shield grabbed.
00:37 - Marth gets a tad reckless and abandons his spacing, but then crosses up G&W's shield with a fair and pushes him away. Marth does a bair when he had better options. A simple d-tilt would have been better or f-tilt since he was turned around. G&W gets reckless after this though, doing a full hopped Bair, but he turns things around with a Dair and knocks Marth away onto the ledge. It's G&W's advantage now.
00:39 - Hylian throws his advantage away not a moment after he gets it. He runs full tilt to the ledge with an u-smash, probably thinking Roy_R might jump from the ledge. It would have been better to space himself from the ledge and use Chef or d-tilt to take advantage of Marth's poor ledge options. After Marth gets back on the stage, G&W throws out a fair and gets shield grabbed and falls for more grab release shenanigans. After Hylian is off the stage Roy_R does well to wait for G&W's actions and then retaliates with an F-smash. But when G&W comes back and both characters exchange blows Roy_R SD's after airdodging for no reason. After that Hylian also SD's trying to avoid Marth during his invincibility.
01:10 - Hylian takes another risk here with dash to u-smash. Marth spot dodges and punishes. And then he has G&W on the ropes. At 01:13 G&W misses a Dair and Marth does not punish. Instead he jumps over G&W with an airdodge effectively forfeiting his control over the match, although G&W doesn't take advantage of this so the fight is back to neutral.
01:21 - Hylian has control and gets off an f-smash. When Roy_R is on the ledge this time he spaces himself away and when Marth comes up with a Nair he eats G&W's bair. He did a good job on keeping control, but got a little bit too aggressive again at 1:29 and then the advantage goes to Marth. Marth stays on control for about 12 secs, and then he blocks G&W's dair and doesn't up b. Momentum shifts to G&W momentarily, but he loses it when he goes for an U-smash and Marth is still in the air. Marth then has control for a bit, but fails to punish G&W for a missed Dair and the momentum is lost.
01:54 - Marth makes an error. It would have been better to space himself from the ledge and wait for G&W to act. By spacing yourself from the ledge you greatly limit your opponent's options and what they can do to get out of the situation. Because Roy_R made a poor choice, G&W Nairs him and then gets advantage. He ends up knocking Marth off the stage and since Marth has no options to come back that won't end in his death, he ends up SDing.
02:11 - More grab release stuff, but to no avail. Hylian already knows how to avoid taking damage after being released.
For the next 15 seconds or so we see some minor exchanges with the trading of blows and momentum shifts that come with that.
02:30 - G&W was at a huge disadvantage and Marth only had to wait, but Roy_R jumped the gun and attacked early giving G&W an opening to get onto the stage. Still G&W doesn't space his bair well and gets grabbed and released. Marth chases him into the air after he up b's and uairs G&W. After this Marth starts playing more aggressively and it's clear that he is getting desperate for a kill in order to close the gap between him and G&W. Eventually Marth blocks a nair and up b's for a kill.
In the last 30 seconds we see excellent play on Hylian's part. When Marth is on the ledge he waits for Marth to do an action or dashes back to bait a Nair and he punishes. He also edgehugs to force Marth on stage and then fairs. This is a prime example of limiting your opponent's options and then taking advantage the situation. Then at the end hylian rush in for an U-smash. There is really no risk in doing this. Marth is at killing percent and G&W is not, so it makes sense to go for it and Marth was already in a bad spot so it was a good time to go for the kill. Hylian played very well at the end. G&W takes that round.
We see ALOT of momentum swings in this match and both players seem to have trouble keeping that momentum. Generally it's better to wait for your opponent's reaction when you are at an advantage since being too aggressive will usually just give your opponent the opportunity to swing the momentum of the match into their favor. Attacking means you commit to an action and give up your positioning, especially when you try to chase someone in the air. This is risky and should only be done when it can greatly benefit you or the risk is very small. Another thing that needs to be worked on is the ledge game. Both players tend to get sloppy when their opponent is on the ledge. It's generally pretty easy to stay at an advantage in this situation, you just need to have patience and be able to react to what your opponent does.
Match 4 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=sV_Dv0IstBM&feature=related
00:03 - G&W tries to rushdown with Nair and eats a fair from Marth. Then he tries to Bair and gets shield grabbed. From there Marth has advantage and gets in some more attacks. Marth does a grab release and G&W gets hit by a fair although he could have up bed. When G&W ends up off the stage Marth has solid advantage and had to only wait, but he goes for a spike that has very little chance of hitting and gives G&W control of the match.
00:24 - G&W gets knocked off the stage by an f-smash. Marth should have up bed out of shield, when G&W pressured it with a Nair. Instead he gets launched backwards, although he regains his footing quickly.
00:36 - Same scenario as before, although this time Marth manages to get a shield grab off.
00:45 - Again Marth has the positioning advantage, but goes for an early f-smash and G&W is free to retaliate. G&w gains momentum and keeps it going long enough to get Marth off the stage. At 00:54 Roy_R stays on the ledge too long and loses the stock due to being knocked sideways and unable to recover.
01:07: Hylian has advantage, but when Roy_R tech rolls away after the d-throw Hylian approaches with a SHAD and then shields, and Roy_R simply grabs him. Then when released Roy_R makes the mistake of grabbing behind him.
01:15 - Missed opportunity for an up b on Marth's part. Due to this G&W takes control and Marth takes 39% in damage before the fight is reset back to neutral.
01:27 - G&W screws up here. He didn't space himself properly and was probably caught off guard when Marth jumped back up next to him. He dies from an f-smash.
01:33 - G&W gets complete control off of that Dair that Marth doesn't tech. He rolls to the right and gets an f-smash to the face, when he drops his shield.
01:43 - G&W has control for a bit but Marth turns it right back around. After which the two go through some small scuffles as they try to gain advantage. Marth blocks a d-smash and then up b's to punish, which gives him the advantage as G&W must now recover. Marth does a decent job of maintaining his advantage until about 02:08 but gains it right back a few seconds later.
02:18 - Marth up b's randomly, but G&W is slow to punish so nothing comes out of the situation. There are some interesting momentum shifts after this, due to some mistakes on both sides, but at 02:34 Marth up b's for a kill after blocking a dair.
In the last 30 seconds we can see that Roy_R is playing really well. He is spacing really well and playing a solid zoning game. Still, Hylian manages to get a hit in and knock Marth in the air. From there it's pretty much his game. He keeps Marth off balanced and dairs him when he lands and then when Marth tries to recover he throws out a fair for the win.
It's certainly much more noticeable at this point that both players miss alot of chances to punish the other. This is especially true of Roy_R using Marth who rarely up b's out of shield. Not doing this cut's down the effectiveness of Marth's superb defensive game. This is something that both players need to work on. Roy_R also relies too much on grab release shenanigans even when it's not guaranteed. Mindgames is one thing, but to opt to do it over and over when it's not that effective in the first place isn't wise at all. He would be better of using f-throw as that would at least limit G&W's options or force him on the ledge if he is close enough.
Match 5 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=nlTAlwwHZis&feature=related
First 25 seconds - G&W takes control form the start and keeps it for about 19 seconds. Marth then takes control with a fair and knocks G&W on the ledge. Then when G&W tries to jump back on Marth tippers him with f-smash. Marth retains control more or less for the next 20 seconds.
00:45 - G&W is on the ledge and Marth f-smashes, effectively ending the hold he has on the match. G&W has control for a bit but makes an error in trying to edgeguard Marth and gets stage spiked at 00:59.
01:07 - G&W fairs Marth for the kill.
01:24 - Marth takes a risk in trying to spike G&W. One that wouldn't have worked out. G&W could have survived that, at the percent he was at IIRC with a meteor cancel. For this riks he loses control but gets it back at 01:32 when he up b's to punish a blocked bair and G&W is knocked off the stage.
01:39 - Again with the failed spike attempt and there is a momentum shift. A one point Marth bairs behind him and G&W responds in kind and Marth is knocked skyward.
01:48 - G&W reads the tech roll, but doesn't run far enough. Marth gets the PS but there is no up b.
02:07- G&W is putting up a solid wall of d-tilt and f-smash to keep Marth in check. They exchange some blows and eventually G&W is knocked off. G&W attempts ledge hop nair, and Marth blocks, but does not up b for an easy kill. He up b's late instead and G&W fails to get an easy kill during his lag. He is faired off the stage and then once again and dies from it.
02:35 - G&W quickly evens things up with a kill using fair.
In the last minute and 20 some secs, we see some smaller exchanges and alot of failures to punish on Roy_R's part. There are many times where he can net a simple up b out of shield or a DB, but instead he doesn't go for it or opts to go for a grab release instead. For the most part G&W is gaining the upper hand in the last 40 seconds, but taking risk here and there to try to get kills allows Roy_R to get in damage through punishing. Eventually G&W gets knocked off and Roy_R plays it smart when he gets back to the edge. In this case one of G&W's best options would be to ledge hop up b. Roy_R seems to know this and waits for it. When he sees it he uairs to win the set.
Let us take note that both players play very well when it was last stock. That is how they should be playing all the time. Intelligently and cautiously. Play safe, play smart, play to win. This is the matra that all of us should have. Not just on the last stock, but every stock in every tournament match. With that out of the way let's look at how they did overall.
Well, in terms of raw skill they are solid players, but going solely by the vids they both need refinement.
Roy_R relies far too much on grab release set-ups and continued to use them even though they aren't guaranteed vs G&W. His punishment game was sorely lacking and he made little use of Marth's up b. He also didn't use Marth's D-smash which is also an excellent punisher thanks to it's speed and killing power. I saw very little f-tilt which is great for shutting down approaches and his use of d-tilt was only limited to use when G&W was trying to recover or he wanted to poke G&W off the stage.
Hylian is too aggressive vs Marth and needs to use more bairs and more d-tilts especially. He needs to abuse those lingering hitboxes more. Also he needs to try to mess with is spacing with turtle dancing and empty SH's to try to bait Marth. G&W can't rush Marth down. He will lose if he tries.
Both players need to work on their ledge trap game. They also need to work on keeping their momentum and not giving up control of the match so easily.
Now of course those vids are old and both players have no doubt improved since then, but they can still learn alot from this analysis as I'm sure alot of people in the community can.
Now, everyone please...
DISCUSS!
Now match video analysis is my specialty. So you are in for a treat.
Here we go.
Match 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=z57R65vUqr4&feature=related
First 27 seconds - From the start Hylian makes an error. He attempts to blindly rush Marth down. G&W cannot do this vs Marth. Marth has more range and speed. Even worse is that Hylian tried to rush down with fair which is a laggy and unsafe move, that is easily punishable by Marth. Roy_R does something pretty unsafe too. He does a double jump for seemingly no reason at all. If G&W had hit him he would have had less options to get away from G&W's onslaught. Still Hylian's blunder means he gets in a free hit.
00:30 to 00:48 - We see that Roy_R is doing a good job of keeping G&W near the ledge. This is solid positioning advantage that he is trying to abuse for as long as he can. Hylian however seems to be playing on Roy_R's terms. He keeps trying to hit his opponent when his number one concern should be regaining his footing and taking the fight to the center of the stage, or getting Roy_R to up against the ledge. At 00:38, he could have rolled past Roy_R, but instead jumps out of shield most likely in an attempt to attack, and he gets hit. At 00:41 he takes a risk to attempt and U-smash and gets stuffed. G&W is attacking too much when it isn't wise to do so. Thanks to Hylian's overzealousness, he loses a stock. Still he probably wouldn't have lost it, had he DIed correctly. But he probably didn't expect to get hit again.
00:57 - Dumb mistake on Roy_R's part. He shouldn't have DIed forward so much when he was tumbling.
01:03 - I think Hylian could have avoided a shield grab had he up bed after landing. Anyway Roy_R does an f-throw to nair, then attempts an U-smash which of course isn't guaranteed. He should have just DIed back after the Nair and went with some safe zoning instead of taking a risk like that. G&W isn't within killing percents and the stocks are even. Going for an u-smash in such a situation was foolish. But even worse is that G&W does not punish the U-smash. That was an easy grab, but Hylian lets the chance pass.
01:08 - Marth gets a bit too aggressive with his spacing and eats an U-smash.
01:10 - Hylian does well to keep Marth off balance, but he messes up with he uses Chef. That wasn't a good idea. Marth eats the hit and comes down with fair and G&W eats it. And just like that the momentum of the fight has shifted. But then Marth loses it when he Bairs and G&W is behind him so Hylian gets it right back.
01:14 - Marth gets a PS, but does not up b out of shield or even shield drop punish. Instead he opts to SH DB? Bad move. Then G&W gets a PS, but misses the chance to punish.
01:18 - Marth goes for the grab release, but as far as I know there is nothing guaranteed on it since G&W can just up b. Hylian does just that.
01:19 to 01:26 - Marth has G&W up against that ledge again and is putting pressure on him.
01:30 - Hylian make the mistake of trying to SH fair when he is already so close to Marth. Then when he is in the air he jumps when Marth is already close and gets launched way up into the air. G&W is now at a huge disadvantage. But when he comes down and Marth net's a PS, he doesn't up b out of shield and opts to roll away.
01:37 - Good stuff to Hylian here. He SH's back then bairs, but it wasn't spaced well so he eats Marth's up b.
01:41 - Roy_R messes up here. F-smash to hit a recovering opponent doesn't work in Brawl. Hylian attacks him during his recovery time, crossing him up as he does this and Roy_R is launched off the stage. Hylian has advantage briefly but attempts to attack instead of just waiting and punishing Roy_R. Roy_R however uses that chance to get back his footing and the situation is back to neutral.
01:46 - Marth messes up his spacing and is attacked during his lag time.
01:48 - Hylian takes a risk here. He is at 144% so if he misses then he is dead. Sure enough Marth air dodges and G&W is punished with an f-smash.
01:55 : Marth pressures G&W, but gets reckless with his spacing and gets shield grabbed as a result. He d-throws and guesses correctly as to which way Marth will roll, but doesn't run far enough to catch Marth. Marth gets a PS and does not up b to punish, which gives G&W the chance to shield pressure with d-tilt.
02:01 - Marth doesn't do anything wrong really, but at that range G&W can dash in with an u-smash for a kill. G&W goes under the fair for an u-smash and Marth loses the stock. That was good on Hylians part. It was a low risk, high reward scenario. Low risk because if Hylian messed up all he would eat was a fair, and high reward since Marth was within kill range for the u-smash.
02:05 - Hylian willingly moves to the ledge and waste his second jump. VERY BAD SITUATION!!!!!! Marth hits him into the air and now the fight is completely in his hands. G&W dairs to the stage which Marth honestly should have expected since it's G&W's best option. U-smash would have beaten it or just shield and then punish would have been fine. Instead Marth eats it and just like that the fight is at neutral again.
02:11- Marth pressures G&W pretty well and zones him while playing safely. G&W nairs but Marth PS's it and does not punish with up b. G&W shields instead of rolling away to distance himself and gets grabbed. He then falls for Roy_R's regrab tricks, none of which are guaranteed and he could have up bed at anytime to escape or just rolled.
02:27 - G&W goes for an f-smash and is punished on reaction by Marth.
02:35 - G&W lands behind Marth and he grabs when he should have up bed. Either that or rolled to get away from the ledge.
02:37 - G&W takes a huge risk with dash attack. Even if the dash attack would have hit it would have led to nothing really, and if shielded or PSed then he would most likely die. Plus G&W's percent is higher at this point. Marth does in fact PS the dash attack and G&W eats a tipper f-smash and dies. This match goes to Marth.
Here we see that Hylian pays the price for being aggressive. Roy_R does well overall with his zoning game and Hylian falls right into it repeatedly. Hylian also has to be more aware of stage positioning and how it affects the match-up. Roy_R needs to get better at punishing in general and using that up b out of shield. Hylian is also very risky in his play style and should take a more lad back patient approach when fighting Marth. Straight rushdown won't work. Overall Roy_R out plays him and takes advantage of his play style.
Marth 3 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNHqm3l2RE&feature=related
00:07 - Roy_R starts out aggressive and gives Hylian the opening he needs to get him with a bair. He should have DIed back as he hit with it though since he eats a fair from Marth as soon as the bair ends. G&W gets in again with a bair, but then grabs the other way when he lands. Marth punishes with f-throw to nair.
00:10 - G&W dairs and Marth could have countered, U-smashed or shielded and punished. All of these things could have been done on reaction. G&W does jab to grab, which can be jumped out and is not guaranteed, but can catch you off guard. He does a d-throw and Marth techs right as G&W d-smashes.
00:20 - Seems Hylian caught on. He up b's after the release and Roy_R gets no damage off of it. Then he dairs and gets advantage after hitting Marth.
00:31 - Hylian gets risky here with Nair into Marth's shield with no attempt to DI back to avoid retaliation. As expected he is shield grabbed.
00:37 - Marth gets a tad reckless and abandons his spacing, but then crosses up G&W's shield with a fair and pushes him away. Marth does a bair when he had better options. A simple d-tilt would have been better or f-tilt since he was turned around. G&W gets reckless after this though, doing a full hopped Bair, but he turns things around with a Dair and knocks Marth away onto the ledge. It's G&W's advantage now.
00:39 - Hylian throws his advantage away not a moment after he gets it. He runs full tilt to the ledge with an u-smash, probably thinking Roy_R might jump from the ledge. It would have been better to space himself from the ledge and use Chef or d-tilt to take advantage of Marth's poor ledge options. After Marth gets back on the stage, G&W throws out a fair and gets shield grabbed and falls for more grab release shenanigans. After Hylian is off the stage Roy_R does well to wait for G&W's actions and then retaliates with an F-smash. But when G&W comes back and both characters exchange blows Roy_R SD's after airdodging for no reason. After that Hylian also SD's trying to avoid Marth during his invincibility.
01:10 - Hylian takes another risk here with dash to u-smash. Marth spot dodges and punishes. And then he has G&W on the ropes. At 01:13 G&W misses a Dair and Marth does not punish. Instead he jumps over G&W with an airdodge effectively forfeiting his control over the match, although G&W doesn't take advantage of this so the fight is back to neutral.
01:21 - Hylian has control and gets off an f-smash. When Roy_R is on the ledge this time he spaces himself away and when Marth comes up with a Nair he eats G&W's bair. He did a good job on keeping control, but got a little bit too aggressive again at 1:29 and then the advantage goes to Marth. Marth stays on control for about 12 secs, and then he blocks G&W's dair and doesn't up b. Momentum shifts to G&W momentarily, but he loses it when he goes for an U-smash and Marth is still in the air. Marth then has control for a bit, but fails to punish G&W for a missed Dair and the momentum is lost.
01:54 - Marth makes an error. It would have been better to space himself from the ledge and wait for G&W to act. By spacing yourself from the ledge you greatly limit your opponent's options and what they can do to get out of the situation. Because Roy_R made a poor choice, G&W Nairs him and then gets advantage. He ends up knocking Marth off the stage and since Marth has no options to come back that won't end in his death, he ends up SDing.
02:11 - More grab release stuff, but to no avail. Hylian already knows how to avoid taking damage after being released.
For the next 15 seconds or so we see some minor exchanges with the trading of blows and momentum shifts that come with that.
02:30 - G&W was at a huge disadvantage and Marth only had to wait, but Roy_R jumped the gun and attacked early giving G&W an opening to get onto the stage. Still G&W doesn't space his bair well and gets grabbed and released. Marth chases him into the air after he up b's and uairs G&W. After this Marth starts playing more aggressively and it's clear that he is getting desperate for a kill in order to close the gap between him and G&W. Eventually Marth blocks a nair and up b's for a kill.
In the last 30 seconds we see excellent play on Hylian's part. When Marth is on the ledge he waits for Marth to do an action or dashes back to bait a Nair and he punishes. He also edgehugs to force Marth on stage and then fairs. This is a prime example of limiting your opponent's options and then taking advantage the situation. Then at the end hylian rush in for an U-smash. There is really no risk in doing this. Marth is at killing percent and G&W is not, so it makes sense to go for it and Marth was already in a bad spot so it was a good time to go for the kill. Hylian played very well at the end. G&W takes that round.
We see ALOT of momentum swings in this match and both players seem to have trouble keeping that momentum. Generally it's better to wait for your opponent's reaction when you are at an advantage since being too aggressive will usually just give your opponent the opportunity to swing the momentum of the match into their favor. Attacking means you commit to an action and give up your positioning, especially when you try to chase someone in the air. This is risky and should only be done when it can greatly benefit you or the risk is very small. Another thing that needs to be worked on is the ledge game. Both players tend to get sloppy when their opponent is on the ledge. It's generally pretty easy to stay at an advantage in this situation, you just need to have patience and be able to react to what your opponent does.
Match 4 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=sV_Dv0IstBM&feature=related
00:03 - G&W tries to rushdown with Nair and eats a fair from Marth. Then he tries to Bair and gets shield grabbed. From there Marth has advantage and gets in some more attacks. Marth does a grab release and G&W gets hit by a fair although he could have up bed. When G&W ends up off the stage Marth has solid advantage and had to only wait, but he goes for a spike that has very little chance of hitting and gives G&W control of the match.
00:24 - G&W gets knocked off the stage by an f-smash. Marth should have up bed out of shield, when G&W pressured it with a Nair. Instead he gets launched backwards, although he regains his footing quickly.
00:36 - Same scenario as before, although this time Marth manages to get a shield grab off.
00:45 - Again Marth has the positioning advantage, but goes for an early f-smash and G&W is free to retaliate. G&w gains momentum and keeps it going long enough to get Marth off the stage. At 00:54 Roy_R stays on the ledge too long and loses the stock due to being knocked sideways and unable to recover.
01:07: Hylian has advantage, but when Roy_R tech rolls away after the d-throw Hylian approaches with a SHAD and then shields, and Roy_R simply grabs him. Then when released Roy_R makes the mistake of grabbing behind him.
01:15 - Missed opportunity for an up b on Marth's part. Due to this G&W takes control and Marth takes 39% in damage before the fight is reset back to neutral.
01:27 - G&W screws up here. He didn't space himself properly and was probably caught off guard when Marth jumped back up next to him. He dies from an f-smash.
01:33 - G&W gets complete control off of that Dair that Marth doesn't tech. He rolls to the right and gets an f-smash to the face, when he drops his shield.
01:43 - G&W has control for a bit but Marth turns it right back around. After which the two go through some small scuffles as they try to gain advantage. Marth blocks a d-smash and then up b's to punish, which gives him the advantage as G&W must now recover. Marth does a decent job of maintaining his advantage until about 02:08 but gains it right back a few seconds later.
02:18 - Marth up b's randomly, but G&W is slow to punish so nothing comes out of the situation. There are some interesting momentum shifts after this, due to some mistakes on both sides, but at 02:34 Marth up b's for a kill after blocking a dair.
In the last 30 seconds we can see that Roy_R is playing really well. He is spacing really well and playing a solid zoning game. Still, Hylian manages to get a hit in and knock Marth in the air. From there it's pretty much his game. He keeps Marth off balanced and dairs him when he lands and then when Marth tries to recover he throws out a fair for the win.
It's certainly much more noticeable at this point that both players miss alot of chances to punish the other. This is especially true of Roy_R using Marth who rarely up b's out of shield. Not doing this cut's down the effectiveness of Marth's superb defensive game. This is something that both players need to work on. Roy_R also relies too much on grab release shenanigans even when it's not guaranteed. Mindgames is one thing, but to opt to do it over and over when it's not that effective in the first place isn't wise at all. He would be better of using f-throw as that would at least limit G&W's options or force him on the ledge if he is close enough.
Match 5 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=nlTAlwwHZis&feature=related
First 25 seconds - G&W takes control form the start and keeps it for about 19 seconds. Marth then takes control with a fair and knocks G&W on the ledge. Then when G&W tries to jump back on Marth tippers him with f-smash. Marth retains control more or less for the next 20 seconds.
00:45 - G&W is on the ledge and Marth f-smashes, effectively ending the hold he has on the match. G&W has control for a bit but makes an error in trying to edgeguard Marth and gets stage spiked at 00:59.
01:07 - G&W fairs Marth for the kill.
01:24 - Marth takes a risk in trying to spike G&W. One that wouldn't have worked out. G&W could have survived that, at the percent he was at IIRC with a meteor cancel. For this riks he loses control but gets it back at 01:32 when he up b's to punish a blocked bair and G&W is knocked off the stage.
01:39 - Again with the failed spike attempt and there is a momentum shift. A one point Marth bairs behind him and G&W responds in kind and Marth is knocked skyward.
01:48 - G&W reads the tech roll, but doesn't run far enough. Marth gets the PS but there is no up b.
02:07- G&W is putting up a solid wall of d-tilt and f-smash to keep Marth in check. They exchange some blows and eventually G&W is knocked off. G&W attempts ledge hop nair, and Marth blocks, but does not up b for an easy kill. He up b's late instead and G&W fails to get an easy kill during his lag. He is faired off the stage and then once again and dies from it.
02:35 - G&W quickly evens things up with a kill using fair.
In the last minute and 20 some secs, we see some smaller exchanges and alot of failures to punish on Roy_R's part. There are many times where he can net a simple up b out of shield or a DB, but instead he doesn't go for it or opts to go for a grab release instead. For the most part G&W is gaining the upper hand in the last 40 seconds, but taking risk here and there to try to get kills allows Roy_R to get in damage through punishing. Eventually G&W gets knocked off and Roy_R plays it smart when he gets back to the edge. In this case one of G&W's best options would be to ledge hop up b. Roy_R seems to know this and waits for it. When he sees it he uairs to win the set.
Let us take note that both players play very well when it was last stock. That is how they should be playing all the time. Intelligently and cautiously. Play safe, play smart, play to win. This is the matra that all of us should have. Not just on the last stock, but every stock in every tournament match. With that out of the way let's look at how they did overall.
Well, in terms of raw skill they are solid players, but going solely by the vids they both need refinement.
Roy_R relies far too much on grab release set-ups and continued to use them even though they aren't guaranteed vs G&W. His punishment game was sorely lacking and he made little use of Marth's up b. He also didn't use Marth's D-smash which is also an excellent punisher thanks to it's speed and killing power. I saw very little f-tilt which is great for shutting down approaches and his use of d-tilt was only limited to use when G&W was trying to recover or he wanted to poke G&W off the stage.
Hylian is too aggressive vs Marth and needs to use more bairs and more d-tilts especially. He needs to abuse those lingering hitboxes more. Also he needs to try to mess with is spacing with turtle dancing and empty SH's to try to bait Marth. G&W can't rush Marth down. He will lose if he tries.
Both players need to work on their ledge trap game. They also need to work on keeping their momentum and not giving up control of the match so easily.
Now of course those vids are old and both players have no doubt improved since then, but they can still learn alot from this analysis as I'm sure alot of people in the community can.
Now, everyone please...
DISCUSS!
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