Luigi Versus The World: A New Luigi Matchup Discussion

*Reserved for future posts and stuff*

Woot! First Post Whoo!!! Yay Spark Made It <33333

Edit: Well it looks this matchup got off to a good start, so lets keep like that and end it with a big bang eh? :]

So is the fight between the Nintedo's stars while Mario always keeps the throne, Luigi has still tricks up his sleeve to steal it. As Luigi and Mario mainer, I should have a good say in this. Let's get some facts straight.


Mario

- Fastfaller
- Has equal to air game/ground game or if not by slight.
- Has more situational moves
- Has superior (if not easier time than Luigi) in terms of ledgeguarding/gimping.
- Has a harder time killing due to less Ko moves
- Has anti-ledgeguard tools
- Can camp alot better than Luigi.
- has more useful ATs

Luigi

- Floaty
- Has more kill moves
- Better recovery in terms vertical height/horziontal height
- Has the dtilt = ablity to trip
- Low Traction
- Has slighty better full jump (meaning he jumps abit higher regularly)
- Slower in terms of aerial movement

What both have

Well since they are Nintedo brothers they do have similar playstyles but different purposes and aspects of it.

- Both have great aerial game and ground game
- Both are COMBO DEMONS!
- Both have a fireball
- Both have great setups for combos
- Basically same aerial moves, and some ground moves (with the exceptional of some like Marios Dair, Luigi's Fair)
- Both have a spike however Luigi's is much harder to pull off while Mario's very useful
- Both can fit 2 aerials in one SH possibly 3 as well.

Correct me so far from here if I'm wrong in any aspects as my head can't function atm lol x_x



~Overview~

Well, Mario is just about the same as Luigi with the exception of a few things. Mario shines in aerial game, fireball approachs, and mostly ledgeguard/gimping/killing offstage. He has remarkably amount of tools just to make sure you die offstage, and also he has a number of anti-ledgeguard tools to make sure he isn't gimped and makes it back on to the stage in one piece. He's fast,nimble, and best not reckon with because with a player (coughs Boss) at full potiential, the battle will be heated as hell.

~ Approach~ 60:40 in Mario's favor

Mario is great at being a approach artist. His fireball rival yours and has great setups after it. Generally Mario will start off throwing fireballs until your open for assault. He'll follow up with utilts, to rack up your damage as quickly as possible and keep on you on the air. He'll go with the Dair ( a attack where Mario spins around, which can possibly eat your shield and also auto cancels) which sends you up in the air. He can also do a RAR-bair equal to yours.

+ Fireballs cancel out on each other. Your tornado can be canceled from a fireball and certainly gimp your recovery if your not careful. Fireball walls work in this matchup as both of you will be throwing fireballs at each other looking for a opening. So a SH fireball wall to a tornado is great to start off if you want him in the air and looking for a opening.

+ Retreating SH Fair (can be 2 fairs if you want) is great tactic to scare them off. Depending on their reaction, they'll be scared of the 1-2 Fairs as you land a Ftilt to their face as soon as you land!

+ Dair/Fair to Nair - Great way to start off your combos and rack up damage. You actually have a easier time utilt-ing him because yours hit slightly farther than his, and his a fastfaller as well.


First let's get to know what Mario's moves do actually.

Cape- Ah yes the yellow cape. Perfect for reflecting projectiles ( our fireballs D , screwing up our shoryukens. and more importantly our recovery. It can screw up the green missle and totally shoot us the wrong way. He can cape stall in the air, and on the edge for more effective edgeguarding. He can cape glide meaning he'll shoot off the stage with great horizontal distance . This is one of Mario's bread and butter for Mario's move set.

Fludd- O word, we're bring Mario sunshine back? No? Orly? So wth does the dam thing do? Well Mr, Nintedo, it actually screws up your momentum. Meaning, it can stop your green missle in place giving yourself wide open for a cape and you don't want that happen. Also with your low traction in place, you'll be send at a even greater distance. Also it also gives mario to do a spike as well.

These moves are the bread and butter of Mario and his edgeguarding tools, you must be patient in dealing with them one step at a time.

~ Patterns and Moves ~ 50:50 Neutral matchup

Well, both have similar patterns and moves but it's abit different too. Marios LOVE to Upair. They can fit two upairs in one SH. Watch out for SHFF Upair, to a spike near end of the stage. It can be a for sure good bye 1 stock too.

They'll love to throw fireballs whenever they have time and space. Leads to combos and Kos.

Also watchout for the Bair to upair to Utilt chain. It gives a quick 40-50% quickly if your caught with poor DI or if you don't break it.

They also like to jab and Dthrow to keep you up in the air.

When your at higher %s, if they kept their smashs fresh, they'll look for opening, also throw fireballs to a Fsmash/Dsmash/Upsmash.

(How do I fight these?)

Well really, you've just got about equal amount of what he has. Patterns and moves. The best way is to fight off and erase the fireball game. As soon as you get his fireball game done your just half done already of the goal. You'll want to rack up damage as QUICK as possible. If your going for a a shoryuken (dies around 52% no DI) go for a Jab>Dtilt (trip) shoryuken setup, so that you won't be punished and you'll be for sure to hit him or you can try a spotdodge shoryuken but I wouldnt recommend it.
Also you can break some of his strings with a Nair. Your Nair has insane or infinite (lol) priority and is a great combo breaker and combo starter. So use that to your advantage. Also you can cancel the fireballs with aerials.

As soon as your offstage, your going to want to get back on the stage. Mario's patterns will do either of the following : 1) He'll have a charged fludd ready for your green missle, you'll be completely halted, and open for a spike/cape. 2) He'll cape your green missle, making you shoot offstage. If you've bypass these two and moving on to the a rising tornado recovery (that's if you have no choice), try getting Mario in the tornado that way you'll gimp him. If you don't need to rising tornado recovery, then look for the firejump punch sweetspot. Make sure your not open for fludd/cape/spike, because if you miss the sweetspot, it's game right there, your open for punishment. So remember don't fully charge a green missle, be patient wait for him to make the move once, hes off your nuts, you can green missle the sweetspot or w/e.

~ Style Adjustments ~ 55:45 slightly in Mario's favor (Im still leaning to 50:50)

Actually, both are really great in adjusting their playstyles (varying on the player too) as they are great balanced and versatile characters. Mario can easily switch up from offensive to defensive by camping with fireballs, retreating aerials, using the cape more often to deflect projectiles and your aerials. The same goes for Luigi without the cape. Luigi will use more Ftilts too.

Luigi is better off on the defensive, then going on the offensive once hes sure on the money. He can do vice-versa. Usually what I do is keep it balanced (offensive/defensive). As soon as I take the lead in stocks, I go on the defensive depending how aggressive they are.

~ Ground Tactics~ 55:45 in Luigi's favor ( leaning on 50-50 tho)

Both are pretty much even up here. Both will use fireballs but SH'd. Luigi will use more Dtilt/Ftilt than Mario. Both will use utilts to rack up damage and set each other on the air. They'll be using smashs when each other's %s get higher. I don't think you'll be on the ground a whole lot. Nintedo brothers aren't cut out for it anyways xP

~ Air Tactics ~ 50:50

Oh hell no. Both rule the air. Both own the air. Well I did mention few of what Marios will do once in the air. Again, Mario will do a upair chain, to a Spike/Fsmash. Marios love to utilt to a upair/Bair. Also bair to upair to utilt string. They love to Dair approach and send you up in the air. They like to follow up after a Nair to a smash most likely.

Well Luigi most definitly rivals Mario in the air (why wouldn't he?). Well, Luigi can break some of Mario's utilts and some of his air combos with a Nair. Again, Nair is great combo breaker/starter. Use that to your advantage. Once you can get them into a Dair/Fair > Nair, it'll be easy going with the upairs. I'm pretty sure you guys will be trading off hits too in the air as well. Both of you love to Bair RAR as well. Both of you love to fit 2 aerials in one SH. Also utilts are your friend since Mario is FF and yours hit slightly farther.

~ Edgeguarding~ 55:45 in Mario's favor (maybe leaning 50-50 too as well)

Both shine in this category well. Mario does slightly better and has situational moves for it. Getting edgeguard by Mario is tricky, of course edgeguarding him is tricky too. First we have a annoying fireballs. Be on a look for these. You can cancel these out with your aerials. Also we have a oncoming spike. Alot of Marios dont take it risky and pull it off, but if they do, make sure you dodge it and Bair them until their no where near the stage. Finally, we have the annoying superman cape. If you poorly did a aerial, he can cape you, spike you or fireball you or quickly FF on to the stage. Your objective is to bypass these obstacles, and get him at high % and/or look for a Dair/Bair stage spike and/or get him as much as possible (also him using his 2nd jump), force him to go for a vertical recovery (what he lacks in, his upb is bawls).


~ Kill options ~ 60:40 in Luigi's favor

Luigi has the upper advantage in this. He has the upsmash/dsmash, Fsmash ( kills Mario in mid late 80%s and late 90%s) kills with a shoryuken ( kills Mario at 52%) also Nair/Bair. Your upsmash is superior in terms of hyphen smashing due to luigi's low traction. Your Bair is slightly better range because Luigi's taller. Your Fsmash is faster, stronger, but less range.

Mario has basically the same kill options except his Fsmash is farther range, has to be sweetspotted, for better knockback and kill (correct me if im wrong here), Nair is weaker. Cape/Fludd made to gimp recovery. Luigi wins this category by alot.


Overall post: Mario and Luigi both shine in different categories. Both make up for each other's weaknessses which makes them unabelieveable characters and a great tag team in doubles as well. You'll have to look out for the fireball game, airgame, and most importantly, edgeguarding/gimping from Mario.

Overall rating: 50:50 neutral matchup. The one with better skill will win the showdown between the Nintedo's royale

<3Mario&Luigi mainer

woo yay spark
i have some stuff to post later

Ahh Mario...i've fought Oblique's mario so many times, i make a pretty mean mario myself xD

Taking it from the top, I think the biggest challenges Luigi has against Mario are his fireball game and his gimping/edgeguarding tactics:

Fireball Game:

A good Mario uses lots of short hopped fireballs in a match, and the biggest problem luigi has is the mobility of the red fireball vs his green ones. In other words, Mario's fireballs are more shorthoppable because they bounce around and cover the ground and the area where luigi himself can short hop. Luigi on the other hand, his fireballs go in one static linear motion. The major problem comes from Mario being able to short hop over luigi's fireballs and reply with his own. I think this forces luigi to be a little bit more defensive, contrary to his offensive game. I am not saying red fireballs > Green fireballs by a landslide, i just think that when it boils down to just the fireball game (something that should be a focal point of any luigi), i think it ends up being about 40:60 or 30:70 if luigi isn't too hot with his fireballs (puns :])

Recovery:

The second major issue i have when fighting Mario is Luigi's predictable recovery vs Mario's gimping/general edge guarding tactics. More specifically, Mario's cape and FLUDD.

Cape:

This is the bane of WeeGee when he tries to use his sideB to get back on stage. Even if this isn't the end all be all in keeping Luigi off the stage, it certainly can annoy anyone who tries using it to get some horizontal recovery. Enter cape dashing, and Luigi suddenly has to be a lot more conservative about using his sideB (but he should be conservative to begin with).

On another note, the cape is also punishment for a poorly timed fire punch. If predicted right, luigi can be flipped over and end up doing his UpB in the opposite direction, which is easily punishable.

Capes are also the bane of the fireball, which is like icing on the cake for mario's fireball game.

FLUDD:

This move is more situational than the cape, but i have lost a fair share of stocks from properly timed FLUDDs. One example is in Final Destination, where Mario runs off stage and does a FLUDD while i try to do UpB back on stage. The result: i get pushed towards the stage and hit the lip instead. Another example is slowing down or even negating Luigi's SideB (which, in case you haven't noticed, is probably the move mario can punish the most). FLUDD is amazing at canceling jumps as well, which is why luigi has to take advantage of the fact that he can recover from just about anywhere on the stage. In other words, its important to save jumps when mario is at the ready to edge guard you. I find the best way to get back on the stage is to let mario make the first move, and use that as an opportunity to get back on the stage.

A note on FLUDD: In addition to using it to edgeguard, Oblique also uses is as extra "weight" to shuffle faster. I am not stating this as fact, but a mario with FLUDD on does not help Luigi when he already struggles to match a shorthop red fireball game.

In terms of recovery, its a solid 30:70 (the reason being is, that on the flip side, edge guarding mario is a two sided coin, sometimes its easy to just knock him away and let the jumping disadvantage succumb him; on the other hand, his cape and fireball can easily turn the tables if luigi tries to continue to pursue him off stage (canceling jumps and reversing specials).

The Battle Itself:

I don't think Mario has the upper hand in general during a fight. Luigi has a superior air game, a more efficient fsmash (when angled up), a longer ranged upsmash and downsmash (which are identical to both bros), and a superior nair that wrecks not only mario, but much of the cast.

I don't want to underscore the notion that Mario is totally inferior in combat however, jab cancels, studder stepping, shuffling, and attention to move decay are things that can easily cancel out what little advantage Luigi has in a fight. I think its close enough to boil down to who is the better fighter, since the characters share so many moves.

EDIT: (With regards to PrinceMarthX and A2ZOMG). Mario's fsmash has more range than luigi's fsmash, especially with the stutter step. I also add that Mario's fsmash is stronger (not 100% sure if it is against the upangled smash though, feedback please). Luigi's smash is more likely to kill than mario's fmash however, because of the angle it shoots him at, which is why I will still say luigi's fsmash is more efficent. It can't be overlooked however, that Luigi does have less range as opposed to Mario, which is something to consider in the character match ups.

Killing Options:

I think the best bets to kill Mario are Angled Fsmashes, Upsmashes, fresh Nairs, and back throws. I don't include Firepunch because its not the best move to try on Mario, as he is too nimble and can easily punish you for that. Back Throws are great on the edge of the stage when Mario is past 100%, and the smashes are also quite useful. Nair is good too, but is sometimes predictable, so i suggest using that sparingly.

A2ZOMG said:

I think this fight is very even. Both can ledgeguard the other fairly easily. Mario has significantly better camping and more reliable out of shield options giving him the better defensive game. Luigi however has significantly stronger kill moves and better range on a number of useful moves that aren't used for killing (Jab, U-tilt, F-air are the significantly noticeable ones from what I've seen).

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Approach/Style Adjustment:

When Mario's fireball game is in play, approaching him is quite hard. Cyclones are out of the question for the most part, as getting hit by one results in a good amount of lag which could be led into a fsmash by mario. This leads into what i said earlier about Luigi having to change his game up for mario. Defense is the key, as is an approachful yet careful style of fighting. Take any shots you have, but don't go out of your way to attack mario, because it will usually backfire.



I do think however, with all this said, it could be three things:

40:60

Because Mario's advantage with the fireball is edgeguarding demands more attention to detail on luigi's part to keep the edge in battle (or get punished).

60:40

Luigi's move are more superior in killing and in range, coupled with unparalleled aerials, many ground combos to UpB, and hard to hit with low traction. On the flip side, Mario doesn't have too large of a gap to jump to be on par with Luigi, but i am speaking in terms of what the character offers the player, not what the player offers the character.

50:50

This is the one i truly believe in, because in the end, my friend (Oblique) and I are very even in our matches. If Luigi does have an advantage, its slight (because i think he is a better player than me in general, so it evens out), but both bros have their similarities that make their fights very close. I refer to them as like streetfighters, they are the most "human" kind of fighters (even then i am stretching it) and in the end its the matter of who makes the better plays. None of them have special gimmicks when they are on the stage, just their fists, feet, and fireballs. When it comes down to that, i think a good mario vs luigi fight is what brawl is all about (brothers smashing each other...duh).


EDIT: I just want to be clear that the first number compared to the second number is luigi's difficulty against mario. In other words, 60:40 is slight advantage and a 30:70 is a moderate disadvantage. I wanted to make that clear just in case someone reads it backwards.

shoot u don't play games. longest post I've seen to date and very percise. But now i can change up my game to counter the knowledge that u know about me.

No lie i didn't read a good amount of this.

Oblique said:

shoot u don't play games. longest post I've seen to date and very percise. But now i can change up my game to counter the knowledge that u know about me.

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Meh, then i'll be back to update the boards when you think of something to give mario the edge. xD

I can live with that.

60:40 is what I think it is.

Almost every single attack of Luigi's has better knock back. With Neutral air, it's a dramatic difference. Mario can gimp a lot easier but that only comes into play when Luigi is off the stage. Luigi's stronger attacks is always a factor. Luigi needs 10-20% less damage with every attack to kill compared to Mario. It's not like Luigi's attacks are slower to balance it out either, they're the same speed. In fact, his down air and forward air are faster. In terms of recovery: If Mario gets sent too low then he won't have enough height to return, whie Luigi has a chance if his rising cyclone isn't stopped.

Luigi has the slight advantage. The biggest concern is that Mario's forward smash has a fair amount more range. Luigi can be too far away to connect with his (even if not angled) while Mario can strike with his. You need to space yourself well because of that.

ALiAsVee said:

I don't think Mario has the upper hand in general during a fight. Luigi has a superior air game, a more efficient fsmash (when angled up), a longer ranged upsmash and downsmash (which are identical to both bros), and a superior nair that wrecks not only mario, but much of the cast.

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I did a lot of testing and ALL of Mario's Smashes outrange Luigi's (doesn't make sense, but that's the fact. Mario apparently leans more when he U-smashes, and Mario sticks his legs out further when he D-smashes), but Luigi can do a charged Hyphen Smash and slide significantly farther than Mario's charged DAC (although don't get me wrong, Mario's properly done charged DAC slides a pretty good distance).

Most importantly, Mario's F-smash has a LOT more range than Luigi's, especially since he can stutter step it. Luigi's F-smash mainly has the advantage of less ending lag.

I think this fight is very even. Both can ledgeguard the other fairly easily. Mario has significantly better camping and more reliable out of shield options giving him the better defensive game. Luigi however has significantly stronger kill moves and better range on a number of useful moves that aren't used for killing (Jab, U-tilt, F-air are the significantly noticeable ones from what I've seen).

A2ZOMG said:

I did a lot of testing and ALL of Mario's Smashes outrange Luigi's (doesn't make sense, but that's the fact. Mario apparently leans more when he U-smashes, and Mario sticks his legs out further when he D-smashes), but Luigi can do a charged Hyphen Smash and slide significantly farther than Mario's charged DAC (although don't get me wrong, Mario's properly done charged DAC slides a pretty good distance).

Most importantly, Mario's F-smash has a LOT more range than Luigi's, especially since he can stutter step it. Luigi's F-smash mainly has the advantage of less ending lag.

I think this fight is very even. Both can ledgeguard the other fairly easily. Mario has significantly better camping and more reliable out of shield options giving him the better defensive game. Luigi however has significantly better kill moves and better range on a number of useful moves that aren't used for killing (Jab, U-tilt, F-air are the significantly noticeable ones from what I've seen).

Click to expand...

if thats the case, i'll give it a look myself and then change it. I mentioned somewhere that a mario with a good stutter step can be quite efficient and balance out luigi's fsmash, but i'll give that an edit too to clarify. Mario's fsmash is also slighty stronger (IIRC), but the upangled fsmash is better to kill with (hence why i made sure to use the word efficent and not stronger).

If SmashED plans to add a description of each character's matchups, i'll keep editing mine to include everyone's thoughts that i missed.

ALL of Mario's Smashes outrange Luigi's

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I see that Mario's do have more range but barely and by barely, I mean barely. I'd say the difference for up and down smash is negligible

PrinceMarthX said:

I see that Mario's do have more range but barely and by barely, I mean barely. I'd say the difference for up and down smash is negligible

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The downsmash doesn't, i am almost 100% of this, but i'll do more testing. It does make sense too doesn't it? Luigi taller than Mario.

But yeah like you said i don't think it matters even if it was just a little more. I am skeptical about the upsmash, the hitbox was always a little weird to me, and A2ZOMG says Mario's has more range, so i'll look into that tonight.

A2ZOMG said:

I did a lot of testing and ALL of Mario's Smashes outrange Luigi's (doesn't make sense, but that's the fact. Mario apparently leans more when he U-smashes, and Mario sticks his legs out further when he D-smashes), but Luigi can do a charged Hyphen Smash and slide significantly farther than Mario's charged DAC (although don't get me wrong, Mario's properly done charged DAC slides a pretty good distance).

Click to expand...

You make sense with what you are saying, the only smash i am truly skeptic about is the dsmash, but i'll go into that myself to clear it up. After i do that, i'll be sure to include the outrangedness of all smashes on mario's part, along with PrinceMarthX's and my thought that the range difference doesn't really matter too much in the long run in terms of upsmash and dsmash, unless you have something to refute that. (or anyone else for that matter).

Luigi's downsmash has more range and does more damage, more knockback.

Mario's Upsmash has more range, more damage but less knockback.

Hippiedude92 and I basically hit the same chords with the analysis, but at least now we are thorough in our coverage.

@ Aliasvee, I wanted to do the huge Wall of Text that has no meaning. You beat me to it :[ and it took me 2 hours to think of all that and even I'm a Mario/Luigi mainer too LOL.

@Kami, we aren't doing the Falco discussion atm. We are on Mario so please stay on topic also, we've covered him but not throughly compared to the old matchup discussion.

sry wasnt paying attention, i thought it was a free discussion
ill delete and save for later then

hippiedude92 said:

@ Aliasvee, I wanted to do the huge Wall of Text that has no meaning. You beat me to it :[ and it took me 2 hours to think of all that and even I'm a Mario/Luigi mainer too LOL.

@Kami, we aren't doing the Falco discussion atm. We are on Mario so please stay on topic also, we've covered him but not throughly compared to the old matchup discussion.

Click to expand...

HA I BEAT YOU TO IT. Its not like anyone reads the walls of texts anyways xDD, didn't know you mained Mario too, otherwise i would have let you throw in your two cents in first.

I just got excited because i fight Mario so much and i actually have something useful to contribute.

Should we hit up every character again in the match ups? or are we just gonna fill in who wasn't covered in the first thread. Some characters like Meta are beat to death in terms of what we can do about them, so i don't think we should do that again. It might good to merge these discussions together, and just expand.

...To be honest I'll actually take every matchup now and see if we can fill up the matchups ASAP and then go back and detain them to see if anything's changed.

i suppose we can do that, but i think we should go with characters that haven't been done in the previous match up thread first above all, and then go to characters that have been talked about. Hell, as long as we keep some kind of order, in the end it doesn't really matter. I just hope it doesn't go down to being an abandoned project. Speaking of abandoned projects, i pmed ThaRoy and asked if i could take over the table of contents thread and keep it updated, because it hasn't been touched since its been made and i don't see him too much on the luigi boards.

Mario's up.

General Focus is now Luigi.

... And might as well Peach since there isn't much to talk about yourself xP!

Lol I fight Marios every now and then but I should know a thing or two xD Wall of texts that have no meanings are sexy :3. Yea I don't tharoy that much, you should take over aliasvee. I already PM'd mods to sticky this, table of contents and a few others, but since tharoy isn't updating it, omg >.>.

Shall we just link the old discussion to this? Or re-copy paste everything on to here? Or just redo the whole dam thing?

Also are you sure Spark you gonna take everything all at once? o_o; I mean, school is coming up, it's gona be hella hard to update every single one.

Edit: are we doing a peach match up next? :O Because my partner i always fight is peach LOL.

Lets hope this doesnt die :[

Fine Hippie, ima redo the thread and make a more loved table of contents xD. Yeah Spark (NOT SMASH), its a lot on your shoulders, i think if Hippie gets a mod to listen to him xD, then we get sticky this stuff and at least not have to worry about it getting eaten by the monster at the end of the forum (oh noes).

I got nothing on Luigi, so few of us use him, i haven't actually fought my twin yet xD. I'll work on the table of contents, and then come back and see if i got anything on peach.

stop calling me smash ali :E

And yes, I have the time on my hands...as soon as I get back from ANOTHER (lol) vacation at thursday.

Tommorrow I'll fit in as much as I can and over the vacation I'll write up anything that comes to mind.

You sure Alia? :O I only PM'd a mod once btw. And the mods aren't doing much "i think" due to inactive. For Mario boards I remember taking so long for them to one of their threads stickied. I just hope ours get sticked asap. :/

How about we keep Mario for maybe a day or 2? :/ Or just go for a free for all any matchup and you update or something? (Although that's abit tuff and a huge hassle imo)

Edit : Lol @ Ali calling spark smash lmao.

O_O why am i doing that?? I am sorry! xD excuse my foolishness. No, Hippie, its not a problem, i mean the TOC doesnt have to be updated ALL the time, so i still think Spark (NOT SMASH) is pulling most of the weight.

I think we can move on, between Hippie and me, i think we said what we had to say about Mario.

I also add that Mario's fsmash is stronger (not 100% sure if it is against the upangled smash though, feedback please). Luigi's smash is more likely to kill than mario's fmash however, because of the angle it shoots him at, which is why I will still say luigi's fsmash is more efficent

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Luigi
forward smash angled up: 15% damage
forward smash: 14% damage
forward smash angled down: 13% damage

Mario

Forward smash angled up: 18% damage if sweet spotted, otherwise 15%
Forward smash: 17% damage if sweet spotted, otherwise 14%
forward smash angled down: 16% damage if sweet spotted, otherwise 13%

Mario's forward smash only gives more damage if you hit with the fireball. Hit up close and it'll do the same as Luigi's.

Nice PrinceMarth =D, now we have a little data into our discussion. By the way i finished the TOC, =D. One more thing too, i just noticed we have the lowest thread count and the second lowest views, it made me sad..

PKNintendo said:

Luigi's downsmash has more range and does more damage, more knockback.

Mario's Upsmash has more range, more damage but less knockback.

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No wrong, Mario's D-smash DEFINITELY has more range than Luigi's. Both on the front and back hit, but more noticeably on the back hit I'll point out. On the front hit, Mario's feet grow in size a little. On the back hit, he points his toe a fair bit outwards. Luigi on the other hand seems to keep his feet closer to his body when he D-smashes, cause I dunno, maybe he's not as athletic and doesn't really know how to breakdance? =/

Also I'm not sure if Luigi's U-smash always kills earlier than Mario's because DI seems to have a greater effect and it goes diagonally.

Luigi's main advantages to Smashes besides being a little bit stronger is that he can charge a Hyphen Smash and slide further than Mario's charged DAC, and his F-smash has a little less ending lag than Mario's.

Aliasvee, you do realize also Mario has the ability to angle his F-smash too to intercept aerial approaches, right?

I say, since me an Monk go at it all the time, the bro that controls the stage wins, which it is either Luigi...or no1 lol.

IDK about any other Marios, but Monk lives on the edge, an If I dare to try to gimp him or If I get impatient, 70% of the time I get gimped going off the stage.

With that in mind, both can combo each other to hell. Mario tends to combo Weegee better.

Mario is quicker, and can be much more aggressive. Oh, an Marios **** Warios (Monk beating Abe, Monk facing a real wario for the first time ever,while Abe has faced several marios = Mario or Monk marios >>>> warios xD)
Quicker, Dominant, Range...but, get mario to 55% and WHAMOOOO!!!!!

Hahaha, I love hearing Monk say at last stock....
"****it, your at 120% an Im at 63, but its still a even game..." xD

Still, a 55 to 60 - 45 to 40 Advantage Luigi. Very tough, but, after you remember the range of the stutter side smashes an stuff, its becomes ...I guess alittle easy.

Luigi Dittos are funny. Lol, I hate getting Shoruykened....feels horrible xD.

I cant wait for Peach, since I havent really faced a good Peach, but I think peach wouldn't be that....that hard xD.

I say 65-35 adv. weegee, since shes easy to get kill moves on.
Her Fair is much slower, moves are predictable. Easy to Powershiled everything.

Trip post sorry butttt.....

Bowser, I or we forgot bowser is most def next.

I think heavy favor for Weegee, extremely punishable. 70 - 30 weegee

Dunno, the main thing I see against Luigi vs Bowser is that Bowser can be fairly hard to approach with his Jabs, F-tilt, and Firebreath in the way, and Bowser doesn't seem particularly easy for Luigi to gimp, and he usually survives to ridiculous percents if not gimped. However the matchup I'd agree is in Luigi's favor since Bowser is ridiculously easy to combo and control from below.

Bowser is extremely easy to hit with fire jump punch. His attacks are laggy and he's a big target.

We have Luigi listed in the Yoshi Matchup Thread as 50:50.

Just wanted to let you know.....

PrinceMarthX said:

Bowser is extremely easy to hit with fire jump punch. His attacks are laggy and he's a big target.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he's a big target, but his Jab and F-tilt not only have huge range, but they are extremely low lag. =/

Mmac said:

We have Luigi listed in the Yoshi Matchup Thread as 50:50.

Just wanted to let you know.....

Click to expand...

Would you kindly give some reasons for your members' conclusion?

EDIT: Never mind.

Wtf? 60:40 against Wolf, in Luigis favour? What are you smoking?

...

Whoops, meant the other way. *Changes*

Pays to actually get some sleep before you tackle stuff like this.

Sorry man...It's 4:30 pm right noe to me...