As Promised: Ike's downair. Tilt stick application, Walkoff, and Fullhop setups

Rykoshet · Aug 21, 2008

Couple of people asked for video or demonstration of 2 things.

Fullhop setup and Walkoff Tilt Stick Application.

First off the full hop setup. Note that this is obviously just fooling around however the Downair setups actually do work in application at low%'s even with DI. Dair to Dair hits at 0, Dair to bair starts working as low as 3% on ganondorf and other tall heavies, dair to nair works at fairly low%'s and Dair to uair needs the highest to work, I think it's starting at 37% on tall heavies. Note that for the most part I know this is common knowledge, I'm just responding to a request on the Ike board for video of it, it's also in kirk's crimean sonata video as well as in the power hungry trailer with griever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-F-gLfK3rQ&fmt=18

And now the Tilt stick setup. It's been pretty common knowledge for a while that ike is one of the characters that actually benefits noticeably from heightened aerial control through the use of a tilt stick as it allows for nair input while continuously moving (allowing for ledgehopped nair edit: apparently this is doable manually too), as well as removal the autofastfall effect of down air. Since none of his tilts can be spammed you wont run the risk of accidentally causing the jump function of hitting it too fast. The operative one though is the autofall removal, as it allows for a tactic most people don't see from ike, the walkoff down air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS92PqMUOfY&fmt=18 (2:01)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7h8BMw_uxs&fmt=18 (0:30 and 1:06-1:14)

There you go folks, enjoy.

Infern Angelis · Aug 21, 2008

Thanks alot, I learned a thing or two from those videos

Tenki · Aug 21, 2008

Rykoshet said:
And now the Tilt stick setup. It's been pretty common knowledge for a while that ike is one of the characters that actually benefits noticeably from heightened aerial control through the use of a tilt stick as it allows for nair input while continuously moving (allowing for ledgehopped nair)

Eh, I'm pretty sure you can ledgehop N-air without a C-stick. I've always done it manually.

Pokemon Mystery · Aug 21, 2008

His D-Air is a spike,which is also very effective on ground.

Rykoshet · Aug 21, 2008

Tenki said:
Eh, I'm pretty sure you can ledgehop N-air without a C-stick. I've always done it manually.

I havent managed to but I'll consider it an issue of control on my end, I can edit it.

XZA143 · Aug 21, 2008

I'm practicing it, but I keep fast falling. I walk off the ledge and down tilt with the C-stick to my doom. Can someone help me out here? Clearly I'm forgetting something obvious.

Ussi · Aug 21, 2008

Set c stick to attack not smash, you can't fast fall a tilt

3xSwords · Aug 21, 2008

I think its because your C-stick is still set to smash attacks. Go to control options and change it to "attack" instead of "smash". This makes it a "tilt stick"? First time I heard it like that.

Also yes ledge hop nair can be done manually, I can do it consistently. Funny thing I found is that if you perform the nair to quickly the hitbox is actually to small to hit anything and you should try to perform a little later while jumping.

Also to input a nair from a tilt stick how do you do it? I mean unless I'm picturing the wrong idea of what the tilt stick is....

Rykoshet · Aug 21, 2008

Diagonal inputs on the tilt stick cause a neutral input, you can jab this way (you can also do it by hitting the direction opposite the one you're facing while grounded) but you can also neutral air. I hit the down and left diagonal personally, easiest motion for me from the position my hand is in.

B sticks work the same way, diagonal input will cause eruption to come out.

And yes sorry, it's the "attack" setting on your c stick options, since it turns into tilts I've called it a tilt stick since february.

XZA143 · Aug 21, 2008

Oh I see. Thats why I didn't understand it. Thanks for the explanation.

Akashi · Aug 21, 2008

If Ryko hasn't mentioned this in the OP (didn't read it b/c I had all these videos already sent to me D: ) jab canceling is a lot easier to do with your tilt-stick. There's no risk in accidently dtilt'ing during a cancel, and makes it a lot more fluid as well.

3xSwords · Aug 21, 2008

Well Ryko I knew about the b-stick nuetral input but I thought that didn't apply to tilts, because putting them at a diagonal causes a tilted forward tilt no?

Rykoshet · Aug 21, 2008

negative, you cant control the direction of a forward tilt with a tilt stick

3xSwords · Aug 21, 2008

Serious? Woah didn't know that. Ok thx for the info.

metroid1117 · Aug 22, 2008

MUST... TRY... WALKOFF... DAIR...

No Brawl because of school

. I didn't realize that it could be applicable even against Ikes though; that was a great demonstration. I feel stupid for not trying it out earlier. Fullhop DAir -> w/e looks interesting as well, I have to try that too.

Guilhe · Aug 23, 2008

This combo should be reported to the List of All True Combos in Brawl. Ike's representation there is a lot shallow. Anyone got some tips on how to perform the Ledgehopped Nair and angle Ftilts? I’m having some difficulties mastering those.

metroid1117 · Aug 23, 2008

Guilhe said:
Anyone got some tips on how to perform the Ledgehopped Nair and angle Ftilts? I’m having some difficulties mastering those.

Edgehopped NAir without the C-stick set to "attack" is moderately difficult; it's all about timing. I can't do it 100% of the time, but I press down to let go of the edge, Y to jump and cancel the fastfall, then slide to A while my control stick is in the neutral position before going forward (hopefully) onto the stage. With the C-stick set to "attack," you can just press in a diagonal direction to NAir. I can't give any advice on how to execute it since I have not tried it before, but Rykoshet has posted a video on AllisBrawl on how to do it.

Angled FTilts aren't that hard to do once you get the muscle memory down; you may be angling it too much. Angling the control stick at a 30 degree angle above/below the horizontal are enough to get the desired angle.

Kodachrome · Aug 23, 2008

I'd simply like to point out that walkoff d-airs are entirely possible without changing your control scheme...Simply hold a little bit above diagonal down and you'll walk like normal, yet retain the non-fastfall.

Same thing goes with jumping. Jump, keep holding down, d-air. No fastfall.

Of course, I would enjoy seeing a real pro/con session about tiltsticking with Ike, since his smashes aren't exactly the spamming type. For now I'll be keeping my regular controller config, methinks.

EDIT: Also, I find the n-air to be not so challenging...are there any other major benefits from tiltsticking with ike that you guys have found?

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 25, 2008

^ jab cancel to U tilt is a lot faster. You skip the ducking animation completely.

How did I miss this among all the crap?

I'll edit some other stuff in after I read the whole thread.

edit: I think that walk off Dair might be possible with out setting it to tilts. After all your supposed to tap the stick not hold it, just like when you edge hog. Can you do retreating Fairs with the stick set to attack though? Because that is the main reason I keep it on smashes.

I'm a bit confused on the Dair to Dair though. Does that really work? because it seemed like the ganon would have had time to shield. (Might be because you missed)

Rykoshet · Aug 26, 2008

edit: I think that walk off Dair might be possible with out setting it to tilts. After all your supposed to tap the stick not hold it, just like when you edge hog. Can you do retreating Fairs with the stick set to attack though? Because that is the main reason I keep it on smashes.

It's not how long you hold the direction but rather how hard, you could manually tilt the stick down and do it but why risk it? And yes you can do retreating fairs with it.

Tenki · Aug 26, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Can you do retreating Fairs with the stick set to attack though? Because that is the main reason I keep it on smashes.

Of course.

Also, the way I do ledgehopped N-airs/F-airs is:
[hanging on ledge]
[tap back to let go] > [hit jump button]+[attack input (forward+A or just A)] > [hold forward]

pressing down to let go of the edge gives you a greater chance of misjumping.

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 26, 2008

well aren't I full of fail. I'm probably going to start using attack instead of smashes just need to get used to it a bit more. Is it just me or does this actually make your tilts a bit faster? I'm figuring since its just like taping A now the command gets input faster.

Kodachrome · Aug 26, 2008

You guys just totally missed my post.

I friggin' bolded it so you could see. ._. You can do walkoff d-airs entirely normally.

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 26, 2008

Not really I was going off of what you said, wording mistake on my part.

petrie911 · Aug 27, 2008

With those dair combos, looks like Ike vs. Snake just got a lot more fun. Probably Ike vs Dedede, too.

Kodachrome · Aug 27, 2008

sure, if you like to get shieldgrabbed/shield aerial'd and/or tilted. don't count on that move unless you do it out of shield, i'd say...

As Promised: Ike's downair. Tilt stick application, Walkoff, and Fullhop setups

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