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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread
- Thread starter Chis
- Start date
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You don't deserve steak.
Boxob.
Smash Lord
I don't feel like debating, I'll just say you're right. LOL
GG's Kinzer, I hate that wifi ****ed me over on my recovery... twice :/
GG's Kinzer, I hate that wifi ****ed me over on my recovery... twice :/
Kinzer
Mammy
I know, but good matches regardless.
you know that Yoshi match? This is how I looked when I got Boxobairs on Boxob : O.O
you know that Yoshi match? This is how I looked when I got Boxobairs on Boxob : O.O
Boxob.
Smash Lord
I wasn't really sure what to say on that, for a second I thought you were playing extremely smart, or you just got very lucky with those. Here's what went down with that.
As Yoshi, after my second jump, I use eggs to recover, but from where I was, if I DI'd left for even half a second, I wouldn't have made it back. I was forced to DI towards you. If you planned that, very nice. If not, very nice anyway lol. I actually really enjoy the way you play Sonic, you utilize tilts like early Dnes (Haven't played him in a while, not sure if he still does that) Reminds me that I should use tilts more. I kept trying to Uair you out of your spindashes, I almost had it a couple times, I'd watch out for that. A lot of Sonic's, after a sdr, will immediately jump out of it, it leaves you so open. D: Just wait a little so you're further away and then jump so I can't retaliate.
Kinzer
Mammy
I kind of planned it because I knew I had eaten up your 2nd jump, but the Lag-Fi ruined my spacing.
Still, thanks for the advice Boxob.
But answer my question, does that still mean no Haunter for the mentally-Hauntarded Shawnik (me)?
Still, thanks for the advice Boxob.
But answer my question, does that still mean no Haunter for the mentally-Hauntarded Shawnik (me)?
Boxob.
Smash Lord
You may use Huanter, I gotta start making diploma looking things for this ****.
And no problem, "We should do this again some time!" Our connection was pretty good. I wanna try my Yoshi moar + my other alts.
And no problem, "We should do this again some time!" Our connection was pretty good. I wanna try my Yoshi moar + my other alts.
Ninetales is one of my favorite pokemon EDIT: To keep on topic. I tried playing Sonic against Diddy on FD and Sonic can do some neat glide tossing tricks with the bananas. I don't know how much this would help him though. When Greenstreet gets back we'll record matches hopefully.
Browny
Smash Hater
ffs why cant we have some interesting character mainers here in SA
its all marth, wolf, marth, marth, G&W
FAIL
its all marth, wolf, marth, marth, G&W
FAIL
infomon
Smash Scientist
Sonic vs. Diddy is.... quite fun.
Two fast-paced no-kill-move characters whipping bananas at each other. Good times.
Two fast-paced no-kill-move characters whipping bananas at each other. Good times.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Oh its extremely helpful.
EDIT: To keep on topic. I tried playing Sonic against Diddy on FD and Sonic can do some neat glide tossing tricks with the bananas. I don't know how much this would help him though. When Greenstreet gets back we'll record matches hopefully.
As soon as Sonic gets a hold of a banana Diddy better have a banana on him already since Sonic is good at maintaining possession.
It becomes a very momentum based matchup.
Even when only 1 banana out its still rather hectic especially because Sonic's Dsmash has more range than Diddy and Sonic's glide toss is greater.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
tenki made a thread about it, about a month or so ago
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Kinzer
Mammy
Let's hurry up, now we're getting to the *more important to Sonic* matchups.
Really, Wario sucks Brawls.
Also I can't wait for Diddy Kong, he's too fun as Sonic.
Really, Wario sucks Brawls.
Also I can't wait for Diddy Kong, he's too fun as Sonic.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
fighting diddy is annoying as hell no matter who you play
Kinzer
Mammy
I don't know about annoying, but it sure is a nice change of pace from fighting the usual tier-whores.
Diddy is still an underused character who can keep up the speed.
Diddy is fun to play, no other Sonic is going to say otherwise.
Diddy is still an underused character who can keep up the speed.
Diddy is fun to play, no other Sonic is going to say otherwise.
One of the best thing about Glide Tossing with Sonic is throwing it down. You can time it so you glide toss the banana at the ground right next the opponent, and usually they'll trip as soon as they drop their shield, or the banana might poke under their shield as well.
Of course this only matters in Sonic Vs. Diddy, so keep that in mind too.
Glide tossing bananas down is good to create a hazardous zone on the stage. Diddy's most reliable method of dealing with it is simply dash attacking the banana, so you need to predict that and punish.
Of course this only matters in Sonic Vs. Diddy, so keep that in mind too.
Glide tossing bananas down is good to create a hazardous zone on the stage. Diddy's most reliable method of dealing with it is simply dash attacking the banana, so you need to predict that and punish.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
its mad hard to punish diddy DA
Diddy is fun to play against. He's one of my more fun matchups to go at it with.I don't know about annoying, but it sure is a nice change of pace from fighting the usual tier-whores.
Diddy is still an underused character who can keep up the speed.
Diddy is fun to play, no other Sonic is going to say otherwise.
Man, you can't be serious.
Please don't be serious.
Kinzer
Mammy
I heard somewhere Diddy's DA has like zero ending lag. It's a legit combo move, and it already is on it's own.
11th post fyi.
11th post fyi.
I've been able to grab Diddy DURING his DA, and have seen others do it too.
Just learn the timing?
Kinzer
Mammy
I guess I should go do that then...
So who wants to manage the Wario matchup discussion?
So who wants to manage the Wario matchup discussion?
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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Why are people talking about Diddy?
It's not his turn. Blargh, disorganisation hurts my brain.
Do we actually have any agreed values on the Ganon and Falcon matches?
And Pit's a neutral.
Sheik, disadvantage?
It's not his turn. Blargh, disorganisation hurts my brain.
Do we actually have any agreed values on the Ganon and Falcon matches?
And Pit's a neutral.
Sheik, disadvantage?
Kinzer
Mammy
Ganon and Falcon are a 55:45 and 60:40 advantage respectivly, and Sheik was agreed to be at a 6:4-65:35 disadvantage.
Chis
Finally a legend
Wasn't it
55:45 Sonic (falcon)
60:40 Sonic (Gannon)?
55:45 Sonic (falcon)
60:40 Sonic (Gannon)?
Kinzer
Mammy
No, I'm pretty it was the other way around, and now that you have the top post of the page, care to manage Wario, Chis?
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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No.
Ganon has a guarenteed kill provided he can get in a Wizard Choke at 93%. If it wasn't for that I'd say it would be 60:40.
Falcon has no approach, little options in dealing with Sonic's approaches, gets gimped easily, finds it massively hard to land a kill on Sonic (player specific I know, but Falcon's kill moves are either slow or have awkward hitboxes.) I could go on.
INB4CALLEDIVANEVA ;_;
Ganon has a guarenteed kill provided he can get in a Wizard Choke at 93%. If it wasn't for that I'd say it would be 60:40.
Falcon has no approach, little options in dealing with Sonic's approaches, gets gimped easily, finds it massively hard to land a kill on Sonic (player specific I know, but Falcon's kill moves are either slow or have awkward hitboxes.) I could go on.
INB4CALLEDIVANEVA ;_;
Chis
Finally a legend
55:45....
TKONTK's Falcon is teh_sexbomb.
I always have the good matches with him. And the lag is still craptastic.
Falcon's ratio.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
There would be little point in him dong so considering its a specific matchup thing that wthe respective boards could easily handle.That would be amazing if you could do Sonic + Banana research Vyse, seeing as you already helped break Diddy.
unless you mean why Sonic travels so very far in which case, its probably related to a similar amtter concerning his DAC.
Kinzer
Mammy
I could've sworn we had a 6:4 advantage on the Falcon... oh God this is embarrassing, who else would have a near-neutral matchup with the Falcon?
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Kinzer
Mammy
Hey, you're scrub too, you well as well as I do that we could be tier-whores and play MK!
But seriously, nobody wants to uphold the Wario portion of the matchup thread, I'll gladly do it.
But seriously, nobody wants to uphold the Wario portion of the matchup thread, I'll gladly do it.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
So Sonic mains finally desided to step it up huh?
I may come back one day...
I may come back one day...
Kinzer
Mammy
We're fine as is... in fact, don't come back, we don't have enough winning Steak to spread around anymore.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Ill start things off.
Wario is a major pain in the ***.
Not because he has uber priority (Bair and Uair break everything Wario has) nor because of bite 9seriously if you're getting bitten often then you're getting inhaled often).its because of his aerial game.
Wario is extremely mobile in the air. Mobility that Sonic does not have on the ground (thank you sakurai) nor n the air.
As a result, it is incredibly difficult to land a hit on him and taking him directly in the air will often result in you losing because he can easily weave away from an attack and then punish you for it.
His kill moves are stronger and faster so not only is it hard to land a hit, if the game were to fall down to an exchange of blows Wario would win.
His bike can be an annoyance due to its resistance to attacks but it can be dealt with efficiently.
Sonic really loses alot of his tools in this matchup he cannot space with his longest ranged moves because one is confined to the ground and the other two are completely wrecked by Wario's incredible agility.
grabbing Wario is incredibly hard and even if one were to grab Wario, Sonic has no methods that would place Wario in a position where he can be taken advantage of.
Sonic does have a few tricks but most of those rely on the Wario making a large error.
The best Sonic can do is play it safe. Try to wall wario off with Bairs,Uairs and his angled Ftilts.
Off stage Sonic has an easier time dealing with Wario because Wario's options are more limited but it won't happen often enough.
For those reasons I would say Wario is around 70:30. Definitely a character that hard counters him.
Wario is a major pain in the ***.
Not because he has uber priority (Bair and Uair break everything Wario has) nor because of bite 9seriously if you're getting bitten often then you're getting inhaled often).its because of his aerial game.
Wario is extremely mobile in the air. Mobility that Sonic does not have on the ground (thank you sakurai) nor n the air.
As a result, it is incredibly difficult to land a hit on him and taking him directly in the air will often result in you losing because he can easily weave away from an attack and then punish you for it.
His kill moves are stronger and faster so not only is it hard to land a hit, if the game were to fall down to an exchange of blows Wario would win.
His bike can be an annoyance due to its resistance to attacks but it can be dealt with efficiently.
Sonic really loses alot of his tools in this matchup he cannot space with his longest ranged moves because one is confined to the ground and the other two are completely wrecked by Wario's incredible agility.
grabbing Wario is incredibly hard and even if one were to grab Wario, Sonic has no methods that would place Wario in a position where he can be taken advantage of.
Sonic does have a few tricks but most of those rely on the Wario making a large error.
The best Sonic can do is play it safe. Try to wall wario off with Bairs,Uairs and his angled Ftilts.
Off stage Sonic has an easier time dealing with Wario because Wario's options are more limited but it won't happen often enough.
For those reasons I would say Wario is around 70:30. Definitely a character that hard counters him.
I think Sonic has the advantage on falcon
Kinzer
Mammy
Should I go ahead and make the Wario export?
I heard they're funny people.
But yeah, Wario is a nightmare, where Sonic usually excels by putting the opponent in the air, Wario has the aerial acceleration to counter that stuff.
And if Wario's are going to be using Bike for any reason other than recovery, you need to punish that sucker hard. I've hit Wario out of his Bike with Sonic's Bair and a well-placed FSmash, just treat punishing it with the FSmash as you were trying to hit MK out of the Mach Tornado... hit him out, and yippy! If not... meh, you get punished on the flipside. (I think it's even possible to hit him out with Fair)
I heard they're funny people.
But yeah, Wario is a nightmare, where Sonic usually excels by putting the opponent in the air, Wario has the aerial acceleration to counter that stuff.
And if Wario's are going to be using Bike for any reason other than recovery, you need to punish that sucker hard. I've hit Wario out of his Bike with Sonic's Bair and a well-placed FSmash, just treat punishing it with the FSmash as you were trying to hit MK out of the Mach Tornado... hit him out, and yippy! If not... meh, you get punished on the flipside. (I think it's even possible to hit him out with Fair)
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Why do people forget/ignore HA? =( Moves that are weak from the top like Nado and Bike are best(and very effectivelt) dealt with homing attack, don't waste you're time trying to space an fsmash or Bair. It may look hardcore, but its not as effective as a simple homing attack in most cases.
I disagree with hard counter. Although I will say I likely haven't played a wario as good as Kinzer or Shadowlink have offline(have you kinzer?). Not to mention I firmly believe no character hard counters Sonic. So I guess you can take my stuff with a grain of salt.
The key as always against characters vastly superior in the air, is to be ground based. Really, be a nub and just spring> autocancel Dair when you're in the air, because you ARE going to lose in most instances. The only aerials you should be using are those with little end lag such as bair and uair as SL mentioned. And spaced VERY well, mind you, because Wario can just weave away and come back in to avoid your attacks. Just don't try to be cool and fight him in the air. Short hopping and Shuffling aerials is different though, those are fine if used effectively.
I think it may be 60:40, at very worst 65:35. Until I developped my groundgame, I too had a lot of trouble here. But you are superior to wario on the ground, hands down. Just not as superior as he is to you in the air. You should use dash dance pivots ALOT I think(although i think you should use them alot in virtually all matchups, but moreso here), because his ground moves tend to have alot of lag beginning or end. (Lol Dsmash, although of course they'll never abuse that). The only thing I find particularly worrysome about wario on the ground is his fsmash. Heavy Armor frames FTL. Like, why the heck does he have superarmor on his fsmash!?! Makes no sense.
I don't believe wario has a single ground move to match the range of your ftilt, let alot beat it. Space with it. Move around alottt on the ground. Even if not a good as wario on the air, you are pretty darn mobile on the ground. Dashdance pivots, Dash Pivot cancels, Shield Cancels and all that jazz are what are going to help you here. Not to mention running shield grabs are extremely effective against wario because of his poor range on the ground.
Just, escape when he has you in the air, really.
I disagree with hard counter. Although I will say I likely haven't played a wario as good as Kinzer or Shadowlink have offline(have you kinzer?). Not to mention I firmly believe no character hard counters Sonic. So I guess you can take my stuff with a grain of salt.
The key as always against characters vastly superior in the air, is to be ground based. Really, be a nub and just spring> autocancel Dair when you're in the air, because you ARE going to lose in most instances. The only aerials you should be using are those with little end lag such as bair and uair as SL mentioned. And spaced VERY well, mind you, because Wario can just weave away and come back in to avoid your attacks. Just don't try to be cool and fight him in the air. Short hopping and Shuffling aerials is different though, those are fine if used effectively.
I think it may be 60:40, at very worst 65:35. Until I developped my groundgame, I too had a lot of trouble here. But you are superior to wario on the ground, hands down. Just not as superior as he is to you in the air. You should use dash dance pivots ALOT I think(although i think you should use them alot in virtually all matchups, but moreso here), because his ground moves tend to have alot of lag beginning or end. (Lol Dsmash, although of course they'll never abuse that). The only thing I find particularly worrysome about wario on the ground is his fsmash. Heavy Armor frames FTL. Like, why the heck does he have superarmor on his fsmash!?! Makes no sense.
I don't believe wario has a single ground move to match the range of your ftilt, let alot beat it. Space with it. Move around alottt on the ground. Even if not a good as wario on the air, you are pretty darn mobile on the ground. Dashdance pivots, Dash Pivot cancels, Shield Cancels and all that jazz are what are going to help you here. Not to mention running shield grabs are extremely effective against wario because of his poor range on the ground.
Just, escape when he has you in the air, really.
Kinzer
Mammy
I have yet to fight a Wario Offline, the majority of my matches are all Online, it's how I get my matchup experience (mind you, I only count the ones with Yellow or better connections, and even then I have to be sure that there is very minimal screen/input lag), but I already know that if you don't have matchup experience against a Wario, you will get destroyed.
And yeah, Wario has nothing in his ground arsenal to match FTilt, I bet you could even use DTilt to space!
Who wants to help me bump this to the next page so I can uphold Wario?
I'm going for 65:35 at worst for Wario.
(Nape, you have to add some stuff for the Kirby write-up, it's still missing some key things in there.)
And yeah, Wario has nothing in his ground arsenal to match FTilt, I bet you could even use DTilt to space!
Who wants to help me bump this to the next page so I can uphold Wario?
I'm going for 65:35 at worst for Wario.
(Nape, you have to add some stuff for the Kirby write-up, it's still missing some key things in there.)
Browny
Smash Hater
i never done the matchup export so im doing it now :>
woops...
woops...