Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

Zelda's a ground based character with good range and decently large/long hitboxes, while marth not only has one of the best punishment games on the ground, but outspaces her by quite a bit. Any time she misses an fsmash just barely, she just put herself into tipper range. The strength of her dtilt in terms of utility is suddenly beat out by a dtilt that is faster and longer. The part that really settles this though is that marth doesn't suck in the air, he can control the flow of an aerial battle and if he knows he's too close to win based off of speed and range alone, voila, counter covers his *** on both the short hop ascent and its descent and he's ready to act again a split second after he hits the floor. The best zelda can hope to do is get him on the ledge and keep him there and maybe eventually force him to ledgehop at the wrong time and then hope to edgehog him. All the marth has to do in this case is wait her out, she cant pressure him like she can attempt to do with ike, the speed difference is too great.


The other problem is that her recovery in this case is too easily scouted, with a 4 frame sword dance and a 1 frame dolphin slash if the marth has any concept of spacing he just pressures her before she can get her bearings straight, not to mention if he understands the angles of FW what sort of crap he can pull off. In this case it would be wise of the zelda to be proactive, don't let marth get that momentum going but don't overdo it because he will catch you the second you slip up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pHpQRaBl0

My marth, for the record, is not even all that good. My opponent is also more than competent.

But if she misses F-smash, that means the distance is more than enough for Marth to miss too, since F-smash has more range that Marth's F-smash, that means the tipper won't even touch Zelda 0_0 I think :3
While does Zelda aerial game it is indeed not very good, she nullifies any attempt to take it to an aerial battle with Up-smash, and exactly what you don't want as a Zelda is to give Marth his maximum range, you have to be in his face, Din's Fire can be used irregularly, so you mess up their dodging timing, and yes Dolphin slash is dangerous, especially out of a shield, so be careful and perfect shield, so you can punish in his after-lag.
Marth indeed does a good job edguarding Zelda, but of course you are not gonna warp in front of his face so you get Faired T_T
Counter does not protect Marth if he's coming from above since he will only counter the air, and in that moment Zelda can just sit there and use another Up-smash
D-tilt i'm aware that is very good, and can give you some problems so DI back, since they like to follow with a tippered F-smash
Aside from Farore's, you can use Love Jump to gain pretty good vertical distance, the same as a vertical Farore's Wind, that in conjuction with Farore's Wind give Zelda a pretty solid recovery, with the option to use Din's Fire as horizontal recovery to cover yourself from any grounded opponent.
If Zelda gets in the air she can just Farore's to safety on the floor, no more juggling for Marth :D
And be careful about Dolphin Slash Marth's invinsible from frame 1 to 4 ???? i think and Rykoshet :3 what does Sword Dance+4 frame means or what advantages does it gives

that picture pisses me off for some reason >_>

*is link main*

ArkiveZero said:

that picture pisses me off for some reason >_>

*is link main*

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The you should have seen the one where they were kissing 0_0 *runs away and hides*

aight lets get back to the topic at hand (before i find that guy and shoot him lol)

This match is in marths favor, but not by much. Marth spaces zelda extremely well with the double fair and two hits of the nair, but once you actually put marth on defense the match evens itself out. The fair and bair are really easy to connect with in this match, same goes for the dair. if you pick battlefield the uair is really easy to kill with and you can catch marth on the platforms with the up smash.

I've only had problems with the dancing blade out of the nair/double fair because even if you block all of that he'll just run up to you and grab you, then do it over.

if you avoid the fsmash, usmash, dolphin slash and back air when at high % you should be fine. i've never let the shield breaker connect with me because i shad and buffer a roll/spot dodge out of it.

but i guess the only amazing marth i've ever played, i used link lol... against decent marth's (95%+?) this match up isnt that bad

Marth Fsmash range is still significantly > Zelda's Fsmash range. I don't know where you get the idea that it isn't otherwise.

Also, if Marth blocks the Fsmash, he can Up+B in between the little hits before the move even gets a chance to hit hard.

Unlike most other characters, Marth escapes Usmash very easily and can punish you upon doing do. You should also consider the fact that Zelda's Usmash is not a great tool in competing with spacing such as Marth's.

RyokoYaksa said:

Marth Fsmash range is still significantly > Zelda's Fsmash range. I don't know where you get the idea that it isn't otherwise.

Also, if Marth blocks the Fsmash, he can Up+B in between the little hits before the move even gets a chance to hit hard.

Unlike most other characters, Marth escapes Usmash very easily and can punish you upon doing do. You should also consider the fact that Zelda's Usmash is not a great tool in competing with spacing such as Marth's.

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D: Well, i had that concept because when i played those Marths :3 they tried to hit me with F-smash but it didn't touch Zelda (they missed) so i used Zelda's F-smash at the same distance and the last, only the last hit connected so i guess that gave me the idea that when on the same distance from each other Marth's F-smash won't hit you, but you would hit him
0_0 i guess i was wrong

And I didn't know Marth could Up-B in-between the multihits O_o *is sort of comprensible since it comes out at frame 1* :3

Marth has great specials overall. Dolphin Slash is hella good and so is Dancing Blade.

I think EL pretty much said it right. It's one of Zelda's more difficult match-ups if Marth knows his spacing because the fact of the matter is that she just does not have the speed to get in and attack. At least her moves come out fast for the most part...

Anyway, when it comes to killing Marth, I rarely rely on Usmash. I tend to use u-tilt more than Usmash because DI only helps with where he gets sent to, not whether or not you land the hit. If I can ever get close to him, I always try to Dsmash. It's so risky to try and rack up damage on him with the d-tilt mainly because of Dolphin Slash, though if you can predict that your opponent is going to use it to break out, I would suggest hitting with maybe two of them and then shielding the attack, so you can follow up after he misses it. Not sure how effective a strategy like this would be for the most part, but it has worked for me... granted, I know my opponent's Marth well enough as it stands.

I also try to do SH fair/bair against him when he's grounded. It helps when searching for a killing move that won't get DI'd and won't be instantly predicted, though the consequences of missing it don't help much...

Eh, I don't have much to add because I'm not really knowledgeable of Marth besides his raw abilities, but these are some of the more successful things I've accomplished vs. Marth.

Isn't that picture a bit inappropriate? I don't think Marth likes the opposite sex...

^^ Marth probably just likes to piss Link off.

Marth isn't an even match up for Zelda. It's very very difficult for Zelda to answer the double fair wall. Marth has extremely long, disjointed range, and medium speed attacks. There is more or less two ways to beat this: Even longer range attacks, (the only places you could turn is to Lucario's Fsmash), or fast attacks and movement.

That's why Sheik, for the racking at least, is the best call against Marth.

Zelda has lots of trouble getting in fairs and bairs. She has to start from a distance that Marth usually doesn't allow, and he doesn't have many moves with bad after lag.

Upsmash is probably still your friend in this fight. I think it is possible to punish landing Marths with it.

I agree that Dolphin Slash ia a good move it fails as a recovery j/k
Dancing Blade isn't that bad, although it can give some problems :O

Double Fair = Din's Fire :3
Now seriously, is it that bad?? i mean it's not like you're gonna get faired everytime and does fair continues to be bad if he isn't tippering it??

About racking with Sheik, Sheik doensn't has enough priority to fight hand to hand with Marth *i think :/*
and Zelda does have the range,priority and killing power while Sheik has the speed and damage racking abilities.

Extremely long disjointed range 0_0 wait what?? Does he outrange Zelda :O

Zelda and Marth are even when it comes to after lag, Marth's F-smash, D-smash, Counter, Up-B, Jab, Fair, Uair all have after lag that you can punish
While Zelda's Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind, Up-smash, F-smash, F-tilt, Fair have after lag.

Zelda has also quick attacks Yay :3

D-smash is good as you have said when he's close and can mess his recovery, and learn to crouch, it helps a LOT.

Lightning Kicks start killing Marth at 60 % when close to the edge and Uair starts doing it at 70/80%

the dair ***** marth pretty bad too because he ends up dolphin slashing right into the hitbox, even if it doesnt sweet spot it doesnt matter because if he up b's right after he gets hit he's going to get caught on FD's ledges

i power shield a lot and use nayru's love to get him off of me so i never have any problems with this match *shrugs*

Yeah, Dair is very useful and has enough priority, it nullifies Olimar's Up-smash 0_0 duno why, and Zelda can kill with it from 0% i think, well the closest i got is killing a Dedede at 12% with it, also Dair to footstool works wonders, not to mention Zelda has better recovery that Marth, and if the Zelda player is smart, Marth is unable to gimp/edgeguard due to Farore's Wind bypassing him and getting faster to the stage :3

And what would you guys/girls 0_0 say about a counterpick?
I usually use FD against him as you can see my reasons on the first post

FD and BF

i really think BF is zelda's best stage because you can catch people up on the platforms and wreck them easily. the platforms set up for fairs/bairs, uairs, up smashes, low % nair combos etc.

Eh, on paper he might have the advantage, but the Marths I've encounted were never anything exceedling difficult. Though, that may just be because I've never fought a 'godly' Marth that knows their spacing well. F-air is good, but I've found that a din quickly disruptes their approach, forcing them to air-dodging or whatever (do f-air's cancel dins...? Either way, the Marths I play stil get hit with it), after that I'll just run in with a dash attack which of course set's up for another attack and yada yada. Counters are a pain in the a** though, especially if you're used to certain follow up attacks and can't adapt that well (like me).

I'm not that good of a Zelda player, though, so maybe it's just inexperience talking.

Also, I play online frequently (on AiB). *puts up flame shield*

^The BF is generally a good stage for Zelda, but don't forget her opponents can easily do the same to Zelda. Zelda is vulnerable to Marth's uair or usmash/utilt if she's on a platform.

Marth is a really tough matchup as everyone else has said. I don't have much to contribute cuz I don't fight Marth's regularly.

Is there no way to punish his dancing blades? T_T

Battlefield is easily Marths best stage.......try not to play Marth on this stage as much as you can.

(do f-air's cancel dins...? Either way, the Marths I play stil get hit with it)

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A neutral air not only will cancel your din's fire, but will hit you past it since it swings twice and aerial hits don't "Clang"

Zelda and Marth are even when it comes to after lag, Marth's F-smash

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Has a long enough range that the best you're going to get to punish this killshot oriented move is something like your dash attack.

D-smash

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Is terrible and therefore is rarely if ever used.

Counter

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Has a 4 frame activation startup, which is the entire length of his first dancing blade hit, and can usualy be used by a marth 9 times out of 10 after the point he -knows- you're going to attack.

Up-B

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Is only used when youv'e screwed up and hit his shield.

Jab

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Is rarely used

Fair

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Incorrect

Uair

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Is used in the 1 situation zelda doesn't have many options anyway, when zelda's above him in the air. Furthermore since marth lands faster than zelda, the chance to punish him for this is minimal.

Zelda could just teleport below Marth while he's Uaring and Up-smash him :3
To punish Marth's F-smash just dash attack, grab or almost anything, if you dodged it you have many options to punish, if you shielded you options are somewhat limited, if it didn't make contact with you is something between the two above :D
About a good Stage i don't think battlefield would do, both Zelda and Marth can exploit it well, it's more tempting to say Final D :3

Zelda could just teleport below Marth while he's Uaring and Up-smash him :3

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Are we playing another smash game where marth doesnt have insane aerial drift/control? If I see you FW I'm just gonna scout the exit point and if I can make it down in a safe time punish you for it, or if I can't I'll just uh... land somewhere else, if you chase obviously I'll throw a counter because it's safer for me to get grabbed out of it than it is to eat zelda's up-anything.

Oh noes =o people stopped contributing ^^
I'll guess we can handle discussing two match-ups at once :D
The next one is Ike :D
*Note : We can continue discussing Marth

Moving on already..?

I just fought 2 Marths today and they were hella hard. His range and speed kills Zelda ;~;

Rykoshet is for the most part right about all these things...

Zelda can be a real ***** for marth with her great range and priority, it's true, but she'll need to be on her A-game the whole time and she'll have to read marth dang near perfectly to consistently outrange him... I'd say marth's aerial game is enough to net him the upper hand here.

Also, Zelda leans forward when she uses Fsmash... which means if marth misses HIS fsmash, just barely, then he's in Zelda Fsmash range.. albeit less threatening than the opposite version of this... it's still something.

as for Ike.... honestly I prefer fighing marth O.o

well... unless you pres the magic down B button with Zelda... but then it's a much easier matchup.

Noticing this threat a bit late, but now I just have to be twice as active, right? .

Marth:
She has everything that´s needed to destroy Zelda: range, disjointed hitboxes, speed and counter. Although Marth can´t edgeguard Zelda very well, the same goes for the opposide: Dolphin slash has invincibility frames and sweetspot, so spiking with Dair is hard and Fair + side-b cover his side from your kicks or other approaches, although Zelda still has easier time when it comes to edgeguarding. Marth also has killers (tippers) strong enough to send Zelda out, and although they need precise aiming, so do Zelda´s killers too.

Although Marth doesn´t have projectile, he can approach well with Fair and Nair, since it´s not actually very hard to dodge Din´s. Marth also has better ground game, allowing him to punish you from approaches better than you can punish him from his. His sword also allows him to completely prevent Zelda from approching from air most of the time.

In the match they actually get more even: what Marth wins in range he loses when Zelda gets close enough to pressure. If used correctly, Marth can have hard time getting out of Nairs, downtilts and smashes, but he also has counter and Dolphin slash helping him do it. Zelda´s biggest advantage would be the fact that Marth´s recovery isn´t very good and he isn´t too heavy for Zelda to kill with any of her killing move around 100%.

Ike:
Good news: He´s slow, so even Zelda can occasionally "combo" him and he doesn´t have projectile. He also has absolutely no ways of edgeguarding you.

Bad news: He has counter to get out of pressure as well as super armor, he has disjointed hitboxes and range and he has raw power to kill you practically with couple of hits.

Both Ike and Zelda have limited ways of approaching from the air, but Ike´s bigger landing lag makes it more dangerous for him. His slow speed also makes it hard for him to approach on ground, so Zelda gets advantage by using Din and forcing Ike to approach, then just shielding/dodging and retaliating. As long as Ike doesn´t get hits in, Zelda has advantage, but when he does, Zelda´s in trouble.

Overall I´d say that Zelda has advantage over Ike but slight disadvantage vs. Marth (but very slight) although I have more trouble against Ike than Marth (but that might come from my Zelda vs. Marth training training in Melee, now that was a bad matchup )

problem is... if you aren't a good Zelda... it's REALLY hard to win against Ike becasue Zelda's mistakes are so punishable... and Ike can kill you for just one of them.... But I suppose and "A game" Zelda would really have the advatage here... Din's might have weaknesses, but it works well against Quickdraw, erruption and even aether occasionally.

Nayrue's and Dsmash are quicker than pretty much any of ike's moves (besieds maybe jab) so, you can normally get him off of you pretty quickly... and, for once ZELDA has to be the one to get close... because, Ike's range is ridic.

But i think Ike kills Sheik earlier =O
I have problems with ike because i run into his Fairs ;_; yeah i typed well, i run to them X-o
Super Armor shouldn't be a problem, he still takes the damage so you can still kill him after that :3
For example, He SA your F-smash, just use Jab and F-smash again, the way it doesn't decays
People can't really edgeguard Zelda that well because of her recovery and options, Zelda can break almost every edgeguard and she has monstrous options to edgeguard
Zelda's Din's Fire interrupts approaches ON EXECUTION like Marth's or Ike's Fair, you just have to know where to aim :3 Zelda can also punish very good, she's one of the best punishers i think 0_0
When Ike uses QD you can just jump and Din's, so he'll be forced to let out the charge, and Zelda can edgeguard Ike very well. she can mess QD (well, everyone can -_-) and interrupt Aether, and Ike's counter won't take effect many times against faster attacks since is harder to time and has startup and after lag IF it misses, Up-air outranges Eruption IN the air, the annoying things are his Jab, Fair, Nair and sometimes Bair, aside from that, it shouldn't be too difficult =3

RoyalBlood said:

But i think Ike kills Sheik earlier =O

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Sheik and Zelda die at almost the same percents, in every matchup. Vanish is about as far as FW.

RoyalBlood said:

Super Armor shouldn't be a problem, he still takes the damage so you can still kill him after that :3

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The super armor is part of his moves. The moves will hit you. For instance, if you shorthop fast fall fair when he does eruption, he takes 20% doesn't move, and then hits you with eruption, which is more powerful and will kill you.

RoyalBlood said:

For example, He SA your F-smash, just use Jab and F-smash again, the way it doesn't decays

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Moves do not have to be consecutive to decay. You can use several moves inbetween two repitions of the same move and the decay will remain.

Of course, maybe you are saying one jab exactly wipes one Fsmash, but that's not true either i don't think. Fsmash won't return to full strength until several other moves are performed.

RoyalBlood said:

People can't really edgeguard Zelda that well because of her recovery and options, Zelda can break almost every edgeguard and she has monstrous options to edgeguard

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Her edgeguarding abilities are okay, ish. Her recovery is horrible. It's incredibly easy to edge hog, and because her DJ is weak she usually needs the ledge.

popsofctown said:

Sheik and Zelda die at almost the same percents, in every matchup. Vanish is about as far as FW.

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I was talking about weight =o But you shouldn't note the difference too much
Sheik is slightly lighter

popsofctown said:

The super armor is part of his moves. The moves will hit you. For instance, if you shorthop fast fall fair when he does eruption, he takes 20% doesn't move, and then hits you with eruption, which is more powerful and will kill you.

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True =O of course you're not gonna trade hits when you're at high damage :O

popsofctown said:

Moves do not have to be consecutive to decay. You can use several moves inbetween two repitions of the same move and the decay will remain.

Of course, maybe you are saying one jab exactly wipes one Fsmash, but that's not true either i don't think. Fsmash won't return to full strength until several other moves are performed.

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What 0_0 I thought decay started affecting if you used 1 moves 2 times consecutively :O

How does decay work? ;_;

popsofctown said:

Her edgeguarding abilities are okay, ish. Her recovery is horrible. It's incredibly easy to edge hog, and because her DJ is weak she usually needs the ledge.

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I meant that her recovery bypasses people that went out to edgeguard, so they have no time to punish since they'll be touching the stage whereas Zelda would be already landing :D

I almost never go for the edge unless i need to, her recovery is good both vertical and horizontal, Love Jump's gives the distance of a Full Farore's Wind both vertically and horizontally, it's like using Farore's Wind two times in a row, except during love jump, you're reflecting and during Farore's Wind you're invincible

Good news: He´s slow, so even Zelda can occasionally "combo" him and he doesn´t have projectile. He also has absolutely no ways of edgeguarding you.

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...Lol what?

Farore's wind has an exit point, you know. An easily scouted one at that, you can edgehog or prime a smash where she's going to end up easily just based on where the stupid thing starts. Ike's specifically cover so much range that he's far far far far FAR out of danger of getting hit on exit, to boot. You don't quite understand how pathetically easy it is to edgeguard zelda as Ike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L07ZCgly4DA&feature=related

I lost this match and I still scouted FW like a joke. I landed a tipper on FW exit as marth, that move is a terrible recovery, it's way too telegraphed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZv0bFeUDSQ 0:25, and no I'm not saying a combo video should be the end-all be all but seriously come on, what kind of reject cant figure out where she practically has to end up?

@ a few comments:

1) DO NOT lightning kick eruption... use dins. you'll be doing 10-15 damage with it normally and you WON'T be getting retaliated against... ulinke you WOULD be if you ligtning kicked... the extra 5 or so % is SOOOOO not worth it, at any damage.

2) Shiek is lighter and, thusly, dies at lower percentages... Shiek has a recovery that is generally better than zelda's but is also more easily ledgehogged... but, for survivavbility... maybe it's only 5% that Zelda has on Shiek... but that's still something.

3) Move decay = move gets weaker each time you use it, and gets partially refreshed wach time any OTHER move hits.... or just switch to shiek who will have straight from the orchard freshness.

4) yes, shiek is lighter, but shiek ALSO combos ike like a madman and can edgeguard ike something fierce.... sheik ALSO has a much easier time penetrating Ike's safety range than Zelda does, can stop quickdraw pretty much 100% of the time with needles (or most other approaches for that matter) and has a much more solid air game. AND... in adition to all that, shiek's speed and agility allows shiek to perform feints at ike which can bait ike into making a mistake for which he can be ounished MUCH MUCH more easily than Zelda can. Zelda may have RANGE and power on shiek... but Ike outranges both so that doesn't really matter, and you'll kill ike much more easily by edgeguarding with shiek than you would traditionally with Zelda.

5) Ryko is, per usual, somewhat right... of course he's overexaggerating the ease with which you can scout out FW warp spots, but to say that Zelda's FW is unpunishable is just silliness... in the occasion that you are FORCED to recover onto one specific part of the stage, you are instantly at a disadvantage if your foe is stationed there... be it an Ike anything or a Lucas Usmash... it'll just hurt.

But I'm not saying FW is unpunishable =0 I said most of the time when people GO OUT to edgeguard, Zelda will land safely on the stage

Sheik has Speed, Combo Ability and Aerial Game
Zelda has Power, KO Ability, Priority and Ground Game

Sheik relies on Edgeguards to kill, Zelda relies on Power to kill, but i just found that Zelda is good at chasing people Off Stage =O She can recover from off screen off the bottom of FD with FW 0_0
And she can kill from 0% with Dair :3 It makes Peach unable to recover when Peach is about the second platforms height in BF 0_0 The only people she cannot edgeguard are Mr. Game & Watch (well, no one can) and SOMETIMES Metaknight, but Din's Fire takes care of that

D4mn you Ryko you're always right

D4mn you = You're too good :o

(Why is D4mn banned 0_0 )

Sheik cannot recover horizontally :O well practically he can, but if he's sent too far, he's doomed, contrary to Zelda :3

And for Ike, D-smash at the edge =Death =D

Edit : Oh noes, now Marth is a bad match-up for Sheik =0 so go Zelda :3 j/k i guess Sheik just doesn't has enough priority =/

Did i spell correctly =/ *is ashmed of his grammar*

Edit 2 : :3 So people how long should we discuss a match-up, you know strategies, stages and stuff like that :D and should we vote for the next match-up or make it random ??

I think we should just make it random, I want some Captain Falcon or Jigglypuff discussion going on!

Honestly, Ike's a harder match-up for me than Marth. But that's because I have an agressive playstyle and tend to leave myself open more than the usual defense oriented Zelda mainer (or at least I think most Zelda's are defense oriented...). Thus more mistakes = more punishments., and with Ike doing the punishing...I die pretty quickly. Another negative for me (personally), I'm a roll spammer. It's a bad habit, but I still tend to do it a lot. So when Ike sets up a f-smash or up-smash, I misjudge the distance and roll behind him - only to still get hit with the attack. Pretty stupid, I know, but them's the works.

Objectively, I don't really know what makes this a bad match-up (even? good?) besides the obvious = counter, KO power, and range.

I just know, for me, the average Ike serves as more of a problem than the majority of the cast.

It's mainly because in order to even freakin' do anything with her, you have to be precise with most of her moveset. Misplace an Fsmash or a Usmash, and you won't really do much. Misplace fair/bair/dair, and you won't do much (unless dair sends them down far enough anyway, but it's still not that good of a move imo). Misplace Farore's, and you'll kill yourself or get punished. Misuse Din's at the wrong time and you can suicide (though that's more or less a fluke on the player's behalf). She has few moves that only require your basic spacing to work properly (dtilt, Dsmash, uair and nair).

Ike, on the other hand, covers a lot of area with a lot of his attacks. Even his unsweetspotted moves are generally effective. I mean, what's Zelda gonna do to an Ike jumping back and using fair? She has to be spot on with the range of the move and she has to get in to actually do something to him. Then, on top of that, his jab comes out fast and it hurts. If he plays defensively, he should be holding an advantage on Zelda.

It's always an uphill battle for Zelda unless the Ike player just does not realize his huge range advantage. I still find Marth to be a bit tougher though, because it's the same effing thing but faster.

I heard Ike sweetspots just give more damage =o ??
D-tilt clashes with a LOT of smashes and other tilts 0_0 That shows you how many priority she has
Nayru's Love gets priority over all projectiles ( duh ) many smashes, and a good amount of B-moves :D
Zelda can gimp some people horribly like Yoshi or Ike
If he plays defensively, you can use Din's Fire until you break his shield :D
The jab can be problematic, but i think Zelda's jab outranges it :3

The way ike's sword works is that the closer to the tip it is, the more vertical the shot tends to be. The closer to the hilt, the more horizontal it is.

I havent met a zelda who can reliably or even a third of the time gimp me, my biggest concern really is a sourspot down air the one instant before aether's super armor kicks off.

Zelda is horrible at gimping Ike, as I'm sure any Zelda who has faced an Ike should know by now. Any attacks with decent knockback can be DI'd up to help him recover with Aether (which is actually pretty effective vs. Zelda for the most part), save a well-placed dair or any other move that would just flat out kill him.

Also, Nayru's Love is a good move in general to use, but it's not going to bother Ike much. If an Ike is properly spacing his attacks, even if Zelda throws up invincibility frames from NL, she's not going to hit him back because of the range of his attacks. I do enjoy using it in place of a spotdodge, but yeah, spacing > NL for this fight.

And on another slight note, I see that people like d-throw -> follow-up moves... but I would suggest against this for Ike, because that bair will eat you alive. Usually when someone has a bair that I really, really don't want to test, I d-throw -> Din's. If I don't want to follow up immediately, I throw forward or up just for the damage and not having to contend with someone who can probably predict what I'd do after d-throw. I only use b-throw for killing.

And finally... as with anyone, do not get above Ike. Especially Ike. Just... don't do it, ever.

This man speaks all sorts of truth, especially with that dair -> followup thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o6psGOYX3A

NL is actually sort of annoying due to how far the hitbox extends, since an ike is going to be spacing himself out quite a bit there's a slight chance that the far end of NL will hit him from behind and actually turn him around, it's definitely irritating, I'd say if you're fighting an ike that is very big on jab/grab play (which is honestly not very useful against zelda but old habits die hard) then use it until he stops. A smart ike though is going to realize that the only real threat to losing a stock early is that down smash though so he's probably going to be staying out of her immediate vicinity unless he cant help it.

Are we done with this now? I'd say it's pretty clear Zelda's got a MUCH tougher time with this matchup than shiek so why bother with Zelda?.

As for gimping ike...

yeah... you can fair, bair and dair both his aether and his quick drawl.... but the timing and precision that's going to take are UNGODLY so saying Zelda's GOOD at gimping Ike is a falacy... she has tha ABILITY but she CANNOTdo it reliably... her best bet is a well time edgehog or, if you know he's going to make it back anyway, get some free damage with Din's when he uses aether or QD.

As for NL... they are right. NL is still a VERY good move for when Ike's right behind you and you want him off of you... but, it's significantly less useful than it is in some other matchups (it's amazing against ness for example).

As for throws: yeah... Shiek has the speed to follow up a Dthrow with an aerial normally. as long as you don't do the same thing everytime... because otherwise Ike'll probably be able to knock ya.... but Zelda DEFINITELY doesn't have the agility to do this... even throwing him above you to chase with uair is stupid because of how much range Ike's dair has... I normally don't GO for grabs against ike... because most of his moves have enough cooldown that, if you powershield, you have time to drop it and get out a more damaging attack... but when I DO grab ike... I'll normally Bthrow.... occasisionally Fthrow depending on stage position.... In the event that I downthrow out of habit, I follow up with Din's or a ground attack rather than an aerial... but even then, Ike's aeirals can normally cancel out din's and knock you out of ground hits..... just get him away from you when you grab him.