Boozer Matchup Discussion

[MrEh]

Let's face it, we really need a good Bowser Matchup thread. Bowser is still pretty much a joke to most players, even though he's gotten considerable buffs from his Melee days. Therefore, we really need some discussion to see exactly how good/bad he is. Yes, he's bad, but he's nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.

I think this works in a pretty simple manner. We discuss the characters one by one and try to decide, as a whole, how well Bowser fares against them. This also helps the community as a whole.



The Sexy Matchup List


Matchup Key (format shamelessly stolen from the awesome Wario boards)

Green and a + means that Bowser is in an advantageous matchup.
Blue and a = means that Bowser is in an even or near-even matchup.
Red and a - means that Bowser is at a disadvantage.
Yellow means the matchup needs to be discussed.
Purple and a >< means you're fighting a Dedede.
Orange means you're fighting an Ike


Bowser = 50-50
No discussion needed really.

Captain Falcon + 60-40
Bowser's tilts and jabs essentially stop most of Falcon's ground aproaches, and Bowser's normally defensive based game can stop some of Falcon's aerial aproaches using well timed tilts, Fortresses and Fire. His Fire Breath is awesome in this matchup, since it completely shuts Falcon down. Overall, this is one of Bowser's better matchups. Don't get careless though, a good Falcon can still bring the pain to you, so don't expect this to be a cakewalk. Always watch out for Falcon's air attacks, like his Uair and especially the Knee. Take care not to get spiked as well.

Charizard = 50-50
Fighting Charizard is as close as you can get to fighting another Bowser. Most Charizards use the same defensive playstyle that Bowser is known for. It's all about waiting for you to take the first action, and they'll counterattack accordingly. Charizard's FTilt and DTilt have good range and knockback, so you'll need to watch out for that. It wouldn't surprise me if a Bowser and a Charizard spent all day clashing tilts with one another. Watch out for Charizard's long grab range. You definitely don't want Charizard to grab you, since he has a decent grab release. Always make sure to mix up your game, since this sort of match will probably be neck to neck. Mix up your tilts with jabs and the occasional Klaw. Always remember that the sooner you get predictable, the sooner Charizard will start punishing you. Also, watch out for Charizard's Fair. Bowser is gimptastic, and Charizard will not hesitate to edgeguard, since he has a good recovery. All in all, this is a pretty even matchup. Bowser is heaver, stronger, and has faster tilts. On the other hand, Charizard has aerial priority, a better recovery, and can gimp Bowser easier then Bowser can gimp him.

Diddy Kong - 25-75
This match is bananas, pun intended. A good Diddy can control the stage with bananas, and Bowser has no way to deal with this. The only good I can see from this matchup is that Bowser's ground game can out prioritize Diddy's, but that really doesn't matter when Diddy can completely shut you down by simply chucking a banana. This is one hard matchup for Bowser, and the only advice I can give is to play a bit more aggressively then normal. The normally defensive Bowser will utterly fail against Diddy, who has Bananas and Peanuts to approach with. The only realistic way I see to win the match is to get in Diddy's face and keep the pressure on him with your tilts and jabs. Remember, the more time you spend in Diddy's face, the less chances he has to pull out bananas. Good luck with this though, since a good Diddy player will always have bananas out. If anything, you can try to gimp Diddy's Rocketbarrel Boost with your Fire if you want a quick KO. If he's trying to recover anywhere below the ledge, then the fire can gimp his recovery and he won't be able to use another Rocketbarrel Boost in time to reach the ledge. But let's face it, that's very unlikely to happen, but it sure is funny.

Donkey Kong - 20-80
Donkey Kong is a terrible matchup for Bowser. DK's tilts outrange Bowser's and they come out fast to boot. Due to Bowser's weight, DK could combo Bowser with repeating Utilts and Dtilts, which racks up damage fairly quick. Since DK is also freakishly strong, he can still kill Bowser at low percentages despite Bowser's large weight. To make matters even worse for Bowser, DK also has very good air game in the form of is Bair and Uair. DK has no problems approaching Bowser either, since he can simply use his Bairs to approach you, and there's really nothing you can do about it. The Bair has too much range for you to shield-grab or to Fortress out of, so you're at a severe disadvantage. Also, DK's Giant Punch is so manly that Bowser simply cannot cope with it. It's super armor frames can be abused to kill you in insane situations, and it can be used out of a Headbutt for a very mean combo. Don't even get me started about his grab-into-spike throws.

Falco
We'll deal with this whenever we decide to get to it.

Fox
Currently discussing.

Mr. Game and Watch
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Ike
He fights for his friends eh? (will be discussed seriously at a later date)

Ivysaur
Jigglypuff
King Dedede >< YOU ARE SCREWED
Dedede can infinite grab Bowser to death. You are screwed.

Kirby
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Weegee
Mario
Marth
Meta Knight
Ness
Peach
Campachu
Captain Olimar
Pit
R.O.B.
Samus - 30-70
The matchup has already been discussed right here. While Bowser is very heavy and Samus lacks good killing ability, Samus still has some awesome advantages against Bowser. Ultimately, she outranges Bowser in nearly every way imaginable. She can shoot both types of Missiles at Bowser to wear him down and force him to go on the offensive. Plus, her Zair is absolutely sexy. Her Zair stops nearly every approach that Bowser has due to it's long range. Plus, Bowser's huge size makes it very easy to hit. Since Bowser really has no way to deal with Samus's campy playstyle, she has a clear advantage.

Shiek
Chuck Norris
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus



Matchup #5: Fox

Fox is a laughable Falco.
Discuss.

[BurtonEarny]

Okay well, bowser isnt bad. Also, who doesn't have an advantage over falcon? Seriously though just space with tilts and ftilt and its mostly cake. I might try to meet and ariel aproach with a shorthopped sideb other than that go on bowser auto pilot and win the game.

[MrEh]

Originally Posted by BurtonEarny

Also, who doesn't have an advantage over falcon?.

Another Falcon.

Seriously though just space with tilts and ftilt and its mostly cake

I think most Bowser players will agree that Bowser's tilts win the game against Falcon. While it's clear that Bowser has the advantage against Falcon, but I have no idea exactly how much of an advantage he has. It doesn't seem like a glaring advantage though.

The Falcon board seems to think that Bowser has something like a 60-40 advantage over Falcon, and that seems about right.

[Nitros14]

His name is Bowser, BOWSER!

Boozer sounds retarded change it at once.

[Admiral Pit]

I recommend staying away from a Falcon when he tries to recover, considering how one Raptor Boost (Side-B move) spike can take out a Bowser regardless of damage... unless you were hit from a high place. However, feel free to make Edgehog attempts when neccessary.
Speed is basically almost the only problem Bowser will have against him... well that and he's vulnerable to comboes due to his size. Try to keep an eye out for Falcon punches. The moves that would KO Bowser quickly is the Falcon Punch, sweetspotted Knee, and Both Falcon Spikes (Side-B and D-air).

To me, Falcon isnt hard if you can predict his fast movement. BTW, NEVER use Bowser Bomb on, unless you want to be vulnerable to Falcon Punch or knee... Unless you are trying to aim it at the edge, and for your sake, let's hope he doesnt edgehog that edge you were going for, or miss and get kneed. As for Bowser breath, I wouldnt recommend it for the same reason as the Bowser Bomb... getting Falcon Punched.

And MrEh, for my sakes, change the angel's name back to Pit. He (I mean "I") dont feel safe when Pit gets offended that badly. Im not a bad Pit anyways -_-
It's like Nitros14 wanting "Bowser" instead of "Boozer"

[MrEh]

Originally Posted by Nitros14

His name is Bowser, BOWSER!

Boozer sounds retarded change it at once.

Ask and ye shall receive.

recommend staying away from a Falcon when he tries to recover, considering how one Raptor Boost (Side-B move) spike can take out a Bowser regardless of damage... unless you were hit from a high place. However, feel free to make Edgehog attempts when neccessary.

Edgehogging Falcon is a given, considering how his recovery works. Another favorite of mine is Bowser's Fire. No, it probably won't gimp Falcon, but it's a safe way to tack on damage.

As for Bowser breath, I wouldnt recommend it for the same reason as the Bowser Bomb... getting Falcon Punched.

Edgeguard with it when Falcon is above the ledge.

And MrEh, for my sakes, change the angel's name back to Pit. He (I mean "I") dont feel safe when Pit gets offended that badly. Im not a bad Pit anyways -_-
It's like Nitros14 wanting "Bowser" instead of "Boozer"

I'm not a Pit hater though. I like the character, I just hate the spammers. :P

*goes and changes some names to their less funny counterparts*

I'm definitely not changing Ike's picture though. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that the new one is very awesome.

[Admiral Pit]

Thanks for helping the angel out <3 And yes, Ike's new pic is funny, and Toon Link's new name should be "Cat Eyes" (I just dont like him)

Ok, Im goin to be honest here. As Long as you can predict, I think Bowser actually does have an advantage over Falcon. Falcon lacks a projectile, which forces him to come to Bowser and his Power. The only things that worry me is Falcon punch spam, which rarely happens, and getting spiked. Other than that, Falcon is easy, well, for me. Should you have a problem against him, it's mainly because you have some sort of disadvantage against Speed characters.
For me, sometimes, I play as a Mantis and wait for Falcon to come to me, then attack. Other times, I could be the Buffalo and just charge after him.
As a reminder, beware of Falcon's Spikes.

Here are some of the things I note when facing a Falcon:
1: Bowser Bomb only to catch the ledge.
2: Firebreath only against a recovering Falcon.
3: Rare use of Fsmash unless predicting Falcon's recovery.
4: Usually stays at the middle of the stage to prevent getting knocked off and spiked. Sometimes I do pursue just to get rid of him faster.
5: F-tilt and F-air is your friend.

I hope some of the additional info can help out in planning your strategies.

[DiasFlac]

I thought about posting something like this but I'm to lazy...

[Gheb_01]

Based on my (little experience) experience with Boozer (lol'd) I'd say, that Fire Breath works great against Falcon. You can force him to approach from the air, since he can't just beat teh fire. Bowsers options out of the shield and his KO power should give him a slight advantage

[MrEh]

Originally Posted by Admiral Bowser

Thanks for helping the angel out <3 And yes, Ike's new
Ok, Im goin to be honest here. As Long as you can predict, I think Bowser actually does have an advantage over Falcon. Falcon lacks a projectile, which forces him to come to Bowser and his Power.

Bowser is usually played defensively by using his tilts to space himself. It creates a matchup that Falcon has a bit of an issue with. Then again, Falcon has issues with most matchups.

Other times, I could be the Buffalo and just charge after him.
As a reminder, beware of Falcon's Spikes.

People also need to watch out for Uairs and the Knee. Without Falcon's air game, it would've probably been something like a 70-30 matchup. 60-40 seems to be just right though.

I hope some of the additional info can help out in planning your strategies.

Yeah, it's helping. I'm sure that most of us can agree that Bowser has the advantage. There really isn't much to talk about anymore really.

Bowsers options out of the shield and his KO power should give him a slight advantage

Fortress out of a shield is sexy, unless the Falcon player is good at serious mindgames. The last thing you want is for a Falcon player to bait you into using the Fortress, then short-hop Knee you in the face when you're recovering from the lag. (yes, it's very possible)


All in all, I say we wrap this up and call it a 60-40 advantage. Now, let's get to our next character. The one who hates Stealth Rock more then anyone else in the game...

Go look at the first post. Discuss.

[Radiation]

Hate to derail this topic with unrelated posts, but I've been fighting a Jigglypuff nonstop for several days and I want to give my opinion the matchup because good jigglypuffs are really rare nowadays and its urgency is probably at the bottom:

[derail]
Bowser's up-angled ftilt can shut down or trade hits with any of Jiggs's air approaches, and given the fact that she's outrageously easy to kill compared to Bowser, this already puts her at a disadvantage. You can space fair (although it's hard) due to the disjointed hitbox of the claw to further hinder aerial approaches, and firebreath stops rollout cold. She dies at 100% from a fresh utilt. Whirling fortress can hit her whenever she's lingering around you. SHAD ---> Fortress is totally not recommended because she's in the air all the time and it won't work.

Anyway, the advantages that she has on Bowser:

She can gimp Bowser's crappy recovery really easily, so I recommend edgehogging with the bowser bomb or double-jumping above her and airdodging/fortressing very quickly if you can. She can also d-air to rest from a shieldstab or anything REALLY EASILY to Bowser. Trust me, I've been hit with it twice. In the situation that Jiggs could always hit with this, it could easily be in Jiggs's favor. Fortunately, Bowser doesn't die until ~80% from that attack, and any of his moves will easily beat her d-air when spaced.

Overall, I'd say the matchup gives Bowser the advantage, but only slightly due to his defensive game, his killing power, and her lack of it. 60:40. (Bowser's favor.)
[/derail]

[Admiral Pit]

I havent had much experience against a charizard lately, but I think that Charizard's fire beats Bowser's... The annoying showoff.
Well a Charizard could gimp a Bowser with a D-air spike or F-air, and Bowser's spike is nearly impossible to do.
I actually dont got much info on this target...

[Gheb_01]

'Zard and Boozer are pretty similar. Bowser is heavier but Zard has a better recovery (including SA frames), otherwise, they are almost the same imo

[MrEh]

Originally Posted by Admiral Bowser

I havent had much experience against a charizard lately, but I think that Charizard's fire beats Bowser's... The annoying showoff.

I'm pretty sure that Bowser's fire is only bigger then Charizard's, and that Charizard's can change directions quicker, start up faster, and has less lag. It seems that it's more viable for him to start blasting fire to stop your approaches then it is for Bowser to blow fire and stop his.

Well a Charizard could gimp a Bowser with a D-air spike or F-air

Due to Bowser's huge size, Charizard's spike is that much easier to land. Also, Charizard's Fair is a freaking wall of fire for God's sake! It has good range, and it makes a lot of Bowser's aerial approaches useless. Also, Bowser is gimptastic. ><

'Zard and Boozer are pretty similar. Bowser is heavier but Zard has a better recovery (including SA frames), otherwise, they are almost the same imo

I'm starting to think this matchup is nearly even. Charizard has so many moves that are similar to Bowser's.

- Both character's jabs come out very fast and have decent range.

- Their Ftilts has a long range and comes out pretty quick.

- Their Dtilts also comes out fast and is a decent KO move.

- Both of their grab releases are absolutely beastly.

- Fire. That's all that needs to be said.

Most Charizard players that I've seen play similar to Bowser players as well. It's all about spacing yourself with Tilts and making the best use of grabs when your opponent gets in your face. Charizard, like Bowser, can use his jab or tilts right out of a grab release, giving him a pretty crazy grab game.

And although it's a novelty compared to the Fortress, Charizard can Fly out of a shield, which is a potential KO.

[eyestrain92]

Charizard suffers for the fact he's a Pokemon, and must return to switch out. He can't stay out forever.

All in all, Charizard seems to be rather equal with Bowser.

He does have some faster moves but loses weight and power in exchange for priority and aforementioned speed.

Last I remember though, some moves do give Bowser the advantage, being as Bowser is completely in control when the opponent is vulnerable. Any way that Bowser can punish is an advantage. Thusly, I'd say it's somewhere around 52/48 in Bowser's favor, but with miniscule difference, being as they both seem to counter-act each other's main advantages with the same property or opposite property, and Bowser is so god**** heavy, thusly, punishing him, which is the Charizard's main line of attack versus such a similar creature, is less applicable than the reverse.

55-52/45-48