Landing Smashes: Ideas, discussion, and maybe videos.

_Phloat_ · Aug 25, 2008

GaW is tied for the lightest character in the game. This means he will die early. Even with great DI, common characters like Snake and DeeDeeDee will be living longer in a game with highly skilled players. GaW is still near the top because he matches this with INSANELY strong smashes. ANY of his smashes can kill very early if you land it right, even if they are slightly diminished.

Here is my problem. I can't land the guys. Not as often as I would like, and as often as I see the winning GaW's do.

How I like to land smashes:

I have very few tricks up my sleeve on this matter, which is why I made this thread. One of my favorites, which works well but can get predictable, is landing a nair at a fair distance to them. If they are a character with few OOS (out of shield) options, then my last fish can hit the edge of their shield. I buffer a smash right in. If the nair hits I get free damage and my smash isn't diminished, and if the smash hits I get more damage, and normally a kill. The only other real trick I use is techchasing. I don't like to rely on getting grabs for my kills, I feel GaW has such good smashes that relying on prediction, a lot of times luck, isn't the way to get the best out of his smashes.

The reason I posted in red, and in the GaW main boards (rather than the back room) is because I can put some good thoughts up there next to mine, and we can have sort of an archive. Landing smashes can make all the difference....

ETA: My god I type badly, expect a lot of edits as I notice more errors

Noa. · Aug 25, 2008

Usually I tend to pounce on the littlest amount of lag my opponent has, and fit in a smash attack. Or if the character I'm fighting is suscpetible to d-throw to d-smash, I kill them with a fresh d-smash. If neither of those seem to work, I try to get them off the stage and hit them with f-air.

A2ZOMG · Aug 25, 2008

G&W isn't really meant to land his Smashes very often. His Smashes mainly are there to intimidate his opponent as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying his Smashes are bad. Quite the contrary they are among the best in the entire game. This is because they are insanely difficult to punish. Use them to put pressure on opponents that are on the defensive. The F-smash is also good for stopping many approaches too keep in mind.

I get more of my kills from undiminished F-air or D-air ledgeguards honestly.

holysnap · Aug 25, 2008

I get alot of my smashes by running up and trying to lure an attack than a quick Fsmash.

That of course or going for a Dsmash sweetspotted, also alot of the killing options after Dthrow are fun.

Ace83 · Aug 25, 2008

A2ZOMG said:
I get more of my kills from undiminished F-air or D-air ledgeguards honestly.

this is not uncommon when you have opponents that know what they're doing.

Mr. Escalator · Aug 25, 2008

Usmash. Despite it's slow start up time, it's easily his safest smash. Charge it up for even more fun.
Other than this, it's a medley of his other attacks. Dair makes a fairly good killing move near the ledge if you just can't seem to finish them, low percent kills with the fair is great, and the other smashes sneak in.

I find a good way to land the Fsmash is to first connect the Bair, and land before all the hits connect so the last hit doesn't send them away (and time it so it doesn't end up on the landing hitbox) and lead into an Fsmash as they are still in hitstun. It's pretty cool, and might be forced.

furiousduffmanx · Aug 25, 2008

Sometimes i am able to pull a bacon to upsmash for the kill. Dsmash works fairly well when your opponent is rolling. I have seen some g&ws on here, including me, that do an edge hop dodge in to dsmash, catches them offguard and sweet spots for the kill

Hylian · Aug 26, 2008

Some tricks:

Jump(SH) at your opponent backwards as if you are going to bair but don't attack. Almost no one is going to try and hit you out of your bair so usually you can just go past them and fast fall to land behind thier shield. Now players generally have mixed reactions, but two are definitly the most common. Jumping out of thier shield(or dropping it) and spotdodging.

Your options?

1. D-smash or F-smash right when you touch the ground. If they jump out of their shield or drop it(MANY players jump out of thier shield), you will hit them.

2. Charge your Dsmash. You want to charge Dsmash and not Forward because it covers more options. While the Fsmash can punish a spotdodge, the charged Dsmash will punish a spotdodge and a roll in your direction.

Those two options will cover what people almost always react with the first few times you do this to them. The great thing about this is that once they catch on, you can still punish them.

3. Once they get hit from spotdodging or jumping then the next thing they will usually do is sit in thier shield, waiting for you to either start charging or to just attack so they can punish you. So right when you land..grab

. They will instantly regret shielding.

At this point your reaction will probably differ based on your opponents skill level.

4. Mediocre players at this point are going to be trying to avoid the grab so they will spotdodge again witout much thought of what happened to them the first time you did this to them. This is especially true if they jumped out of shield and got punished the first time. So just charge a Dsmash again. Smarter players however, are going to realize that by rolling backwards, they avoid ALL previous attempts you have made. But with a little prediction based on how smart your opponent seems, you will STILL punish them. This one is harder, because different characters have different rolls but if you dash right when you land behind thier shield you can punish every roll. Slower ones you can running usmash. All other ones you can either grab, tipped fair, or nair.

At this point you have just completly read your opponent, and they will start being more cautious. Be agressive, and make them make many quick decisions. This will wear them out.

If you are fighting an opponent who you think is smarter then you, then play spammy, Use a lot of the same moves in a row right before you do this set-up. Why? Because they will notice you like to repeat things, and they will change thier actions accordingly each time you do this set-up, allowing you to go through all the steps without having to out think a smarter opponent.

If you have any questions feel free to ask. I typed all this with my Wii-mote, so some things may not be clear.

Cosmo! · Aug 26, 2008

Hylian said:
I typed all this with my Wii-mote, so some things may not be clear.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

A2ZOMG · Aug 26, 2008

Y'gonna join The Watchers Cosmo? I think we want you there. =P

lain · Aug 26, 2008

Good **** Hylian.

The Usmash is fukkin huge. It goes through so many dairs, and punishes an airdodge (if timed right of course, SO good against Snakes). Probably the best smash.

Dthrow -> Dsmash is still ****ing **** on a lot of players. It's surprising, but hey, even really good players miss the tech sometimes.

Dthrow -> Dsmash (or even Fsmash in the right direction) on heavy charactars is ridiculous. Once you Dthrow, walk a little bit forwards if you expect their either going to stand up, attack, or roll in front of you. Will sweetspot Dsmash them, and it covers all options but roll behind.

Nair is so good for tripping up opponents into a Dsmash. Sometimes it's really unexpected to time getting out and avoid whatever's next since it's hard to tell when someone gets out.

_Phloat_ · Aug 26, 2008

Good thoughts so far guys. Reading it and taking it all in for a friendly later tomorrow. No good responses atm, time for a tf2 league match =D

Lovage 805 · Aug 26, 2008

Charged Usmash is called the

Lovage

A2ZOMG · Aug 26, 2008

Oh yeah the U-smash. The thing that's so amazing about the U-smash is that it comes out INSTANTLY after you charge it up. And it has only 10 frames ending lag. And you can use it out of a Dash.

cutter · Aug 26, 2008

It's fun to abuse the IASA frames on Usmash by charging it up all the way to lure an opponent into thinking I'm open. Then right after the smash, I do whatever, usually a Dsmash or Fsmash to catch them off guard. Funny as **** to when they don't know much about the Usmash, but don't rely on it.

And unlike other powerful Usmashes like Ivysaur's Usmash (telegraphed and awful cooldown time) and Lucas's Usmash (horrendous startup time), G&W's Usmash is relatively safe.

Ace83 · Aug 26, 2008

so true, the usmash baits them in usually for a nice dsmash.. just don't do it often.. hell, play it off as accidental! hahah

craig & watch · Aug 27, 2008

i use game and watch all the time but i have neva found a way to spike properly can some one help me out?

lain · Aug 27, 2008

Slowed dairs are the only way kiddo.

PitMasta · Aug 27, 2008

i seriously hate it when G&W users always Grab, Then D-Smash, all G&W users use it, it is VERY EXPECTED. SO, just to give you guys advice, you shouldn't do that, because it is seriously expected!

And another thing

When your in the air, don't always D-Air, use other attacks in the air!!!

Ace83 · Aug 27, 2008

PitMasta said:
all G&W users use it

ahh, i dunno..

lain · Aug 28, 2008

All I'm sayin' is, if I do it once and notice they don't tech it, I'm going to do it again and again.

:colorful:

Mr. Escalator · Aug 28, 2008

And in my case, even if I tech it, lain will keep doing it

Though it surprised me that your dsmash hit me in the middle of my tech at one point. **** G&W's tech roll!

cutter · Aug 28, 2008

PitMasta said:
i seriously hate it when G&W users always Grab, Then D-Smash, all G&W users use it, it is VERY EXPECTED. SO, just to give you guys advice, you shouldn't do that, because it is seriously expected!

If you're a lightweight and you don't tech the throw, you deserve to get Dsmashed.

Lovage 805 · Aug 28, 2008

when an opponent is looking to shield grab me i often short hop near them, maybe airdodge, but and just behind their shield. then fsmash as they whiff a shield grab. doesnt always work more than once, i use this a lot on the ledge

Hylian · Aug 28, 2008

Lovage 805 said:
when an opponent is looking to shield grab me i often short hop near them, maybe airdodge, but and just behind their shield. then fsmash as they whiff a shield grab. doesnt always work more than once, i use this a lot on the ledge

Did you read my **** long post?

slikvik · Aug 31, 2008

i just do stuff and it works. whos coming to critical hit?

Neb · Sep 7, 2008

Bu mp?

Voxx · Sep 8, 2008

Juggle him with uair, predict where hes going to land and ff upsmash

Also in low percents, land a perfect turtle and fsmash

i use these WAAY too much xP

Tipper a dsmash aswell :]

kaak · Jun 12, 2009

Just dair a few distance from your opponent, if he grab you can punish the grab animation if the character dont have much grab range. and Usmash to Fsmash thanks to the IASA frames.
or if the opponent use much dodge's charge smashes.

nair/bair cancel will work fine to.

Hylian · Jun 12, 2009

Try not to revive super necro threads lol.

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